4/9,Chuck,AMPS:128,+2 122,+3 72,+3.25 43,+3.5 57,+3.6 88,+4 101,, PMPS: HI,+2 569,+4 358, +8 228

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StephG

StephG

Member Since 2016
Chuck's +11.5 is 128...
I think he should be ok on the full 8 just checking to make sure! I will be home to monitor and we have enough supplies.
ETA: not shooting until after +12 test. I will update AMPS
 
I think you're ok going for it. Nothing suggests that this dose is too much for him, and like I said a couple of nights ago, shooting lower numbers often results in lowering the entire range of numbers and helping a cat flatten out.

When we were looking at it before he was closer to 200, but actually this looks like a great opportunity to shoot tonight. Well, for me it's tonight - but again, I can't stay with you. You said before you were comfortable with it, so I assume that's still the case.
 
Yes. I think we will be ok to steer with food if he needs it... Do you suggest hourly testing or normal curve until he shows numbers that are too low too early?
DH is here with me so I think we can handle it.
 
Anytime you shoot a number lower than you've shot before, it's a good idea to get a +1 and a +2, just so you have no surprises. That's what I'd start with for Chuck tonight. Then decide from what you get at +2 when you should test again.
 
+2 122
When should I give LC food? His snack is scheduled for +4. I'm getting nervous because +3 to +4 he dropped 110 points yesterday morning.
 
Test again in 20. Let's hope the karo brings him up quickly-- you don't want to give too much of that stuff straight, they might vomit.
 
11 minutes later 57. Rinsed hands before test. Called ER vet they are having the Dr call me back.
 
OK, good. I'd give him a little MC right now-- not too much, just a tsp or two.

Normally the procedure is to hold off on food once they get over 50, to see if he can hold it on his own. It's so early, though, and he's acting so hungry, I'd like to get a little substantial food on board first.
 
Nan & Amber said:
OK, good. I'd give him a little MC right now-- not too much, just a tsp or two.

Normally the procedure is to hold off on food once they get over 50, to see if he can hold it on his own. It's so early, though, and he's acting so hungry, I'd like to get a little substantial food on board first.
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Ok. Then test in 20?
 
+3.5 88 I'm sure from the spoon of Karo.
Hopefully I didn't over do it... Which tends to be my specialty.
He's acting less frantic.
 
Well, that's one reason I suggested a little MC-- karo works, but it does wear off.

No more snacks, test again in 30.

Much better to over-carb than to miss a low like this-- you did great! And, it's good info to know that one of Chuck's reactions to low numbers might be to search out food. Not all cats do that, but if they do, it's a nice safety catch.
 
He definitely goes nuts looking for food. He almost got my finger! Should I remove the 911?
 
While you're at it, the subject line is a little confusing currently, with the 43 coming first, so maybe update that as well for folks who are starting to wake up and are just coming to this.
 
Forgot about his +4 snack in the auto feeder. I went to the bathroom real quick and he ate it. Probably didn't need it.
 
StephG said:
I saw 43 and my brain turned to mush.
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That has definitely happened to all of us in that situation!!!! Especially the first couple times it happens-- careful planning goes out the window!

You did fine. I'm thinking that all the carbs of the karo, the gravy, and then the MC, plus whatever bouncing he does from that low, are going to keep him elevated for a while. We're just now getting into the time where lantus should have its main effect, though, so that might help to counter it.

101 isn't bad, actually, given how many carbs he had, but I doubt he's done climbing. It may be an epic bounce today, so be ready! The good news is, looking at his spreadsheet, he's definitely starting to hit some better numbers regularly, so overall he's trending in the right direction.
 
DH caught him and he only got half his snack. He was very reactive to food and loves to bounce so I wouldn't be surprised to see a black in a couple hours.
Vet thought I was insane giving him 8.5 units in the first place then appalled and talked to me like an idiot after hearing his preshot. He's not our regular vet. I will only see him for emergencies because he's the only one who works the ER/after hours.
 
Don't worry about the partial snack-- just test again in maybe an hour to make sure he doesn't have anything surprising in mind today. 8.5U is a fair amount of insulin on board. I'm not too familiar with higher-dose cats and how things go with them, or if Chuck has had any known high-dose conditions ruled in or out, but my understanding is that they can be a bit unpredictable, with the cat reacting differently to the same amount of insulin from day to day.

I still expect a big bounce, but just keep that in mind-- this morning's preshot and (certainly) the drop afterwards were kind of unusual for him, so we can't be 100% sure what his plans are for the rest of the day.

Hang on, just read your signature, and I see you started the pancreas booster supplement on 3/10? Hmmm..... I think there was another cat recently who started seeing much better numbers a few weeks after starting it. Wonder if that's a factor here?

This is quite a way to start your Sunday, eh?
 
I also started s boulardi today. Not sure if that would make a difference so fast... I'll add it to my signature now.
 
This morning I shot the lowest preshot he's had... EVER. Only day 7 on lantus... Maybe his Depot is officially full?
 
Think he's ok til preshot?
The vet told me DO NOT give insulin tonight. I don't agree. I understand he can have some sensitivity because of the low but he might be 600+ by +12... I do not want to skip a dose.
 
If you're able, I'd try to get a test in sometime between +7 and +9 to see where he's at.

I wouldn't skip the shot tonight, unless something really weird happens.
 
Ok. I'm going to take a nap with him til then.

OT: I see you're from Western NY. I'm from the border of upstate NY/PA.
 
Wow, Steph!! This is like reading a suspense novel! Good job dealing with this. I'm really glad to see such a positive response to Lantus in your boy. :):):)
 
I think this is a situation that calls for "shooting through the bounce". Will you be able to monitor for at least a few hours to make sure he's going to stay in a bounce?
 
Is that the epic bounce? (See Steph, we missed you over in Prozinc, so we just followed you over to here :))
 
He's eating much slower. Not unusual for him after being steered with food. It will be left out for him though.
 
Then I'd say go for the 8.5. After that, I think he's earned a reduction, unless he counts as a long-term diabetic. Hopefully some of the more experienced TR/higher-dose people will be along this evening to give some guidance about that and about the amount of reduction to take.
 
I'll update SS once my computer decides it's ready to turn on. Rebooted after virus scan and now it's just spinning it's wheels.
 
Can you pick up some high carb gravy cat food? That is less likely to cause barfing than straight karo syrup, especially if you gave a lot. Here is the link to Handling Low Numbers for those following Tight Regulation Protocol. The most important part from the sticky when one is confronted with bringing up low numbers immediately is here:
If your cat is testing in low numbers and you are not getting a quick response to your post, there are several things you need to do. (Low numbers are under 50mg/dL or 2.8 mmol/L.)
  • Depending on how carbohydrate sensitive your cat is, feed approximately a teaspoon or less of gravy from high carb food or high carb food only. (If you have a cat with GI issues, using a couple of drops of syrup plus low carb food is an alternative.)
  • Test again in 15 – 20 min. Depending on the numbers, give more HC food.
  • Repeat the above steps every 15 – 20 min. until your cat tests in the 50 mg/dL (2.8 mmol/L) or above range for 2 consecutive tests. Continue to feed in small amounts to keep numbers in a safe range.
  • Test in 30 - 40 min. and repeat the test and feed process until there are 2 consecutive tests where numbers are stable or rising.
  • Test in an hour and follow the same steps.
DO NOT become complacent. If number have risen after one or two tests, it’s important to continue testing. Numbers may bobble up and down as the HC food and/or Karo wear off. DO NOT get one test where your cat has risen from low numbers into the 50s and go to sleep or leave the house. You are putting your cat in a risky situation. When in doubt, leave HC food out.
​
HC is considered over 15%. I found that I had the best success with quickly bringing up Punkin's blood sugar if I used 25% or so. There are new food lists at the www.catinfo.org site that tell you the carb content of various foods. I used Friskies Gravy Lovers - it had a ton of gravy in it. I don't know what the current choices are, however.

Another option is to add a drop or two of syrup, like Karo/honey/maple syrups to a bite or two of Chuck's regular low carb food. Many people alternate giving the gravy with a bite of the meat. The carbs will raise the blood sugar and the meat will help sustain it and hopefully, prevent vomiting from too much sugar.

I looked at his ss regarding the question about his dose for tonight, but it's not updated. It helps to see the numbers in there. I'll check in later this evening to see if you have questions before you shoot.
 
julie & punkin (ga) said:
Can you pick up some high carb gravy cat food? That is less likely to cause barfing than straight karo syrup, especially if you gave a lot. Here is the link to Handling Low Numbers for those following Tight Regulation Protocol. The most important part from the sticky when one is confronted with bringing up low numbers immediately is here:
If your cat is testing in low numbers and you are not getting a quick response to your post, there are several things you need to do. (Low numbers are under 50mg/dL or 2.8 mmol/L.)
  • Depending on how carbohydrate sensitive your cat is, feed approximately a teaspoon or less of gravy from high carb food or high carb food only. (If you have a cat with GI issues, using a couple of drops of syrup plus low carb food is an alternative.)
  • Test again in 15 – 20 min. Depending on the numbers, give more HC food.
  • Repeat the above steps every 15 – 20 min. until your cat tests in the 50 mg/dL (2.8 mmol/L) or above range for 2 consecutive tests. Continue to feed in small amounts to keep numbers in a safe range.
  • Test in 30 - 40 min. and repeat the test and feed process until there are 2 consecutive tests where numbers are stable or rising.
  • Test in an hour and follow the same steps.
DO NOT become complacent. If number have risen after one or two tests, it’s important to continue testing. Numbers may bobble up and down as the HC food and/or Karo wear off. DO NOT get one test where your cat has risen from low numbers into the 50s and go to sleep or leave the house. You are putting your cat in a risky situation. When in doubt, leave HC food out.
​
HC is considered over 15%. I found that I had the best success with quickly bringing up Punkin's blood sugar if I used 25% or so. There are new food lists at the www.catinfo.org site that tell you the carb content of various foods. I used Friskies Gravy Lovers - it had a ton of gravy in it. I don't know what the current choices are, however.

Another option is to add a drop or two of syrup, like Karo/honey/maple syrups to a bite or two of Chuck's regular low carb food. Many people alternate giving the gravy with a bite of the meat. The carbs will raise the blood sugar and the meat will help sustain it and hopefully, prevent vomiting from too much sugar.

I looked at his ss regarding the question about his dose for tonight, but it's not updated. It helps to see the numbers in there. I'll check in later this evening to see if you have questions before you shoot.
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Thank you for this info.
I finally got my computer to start working right. Was a pain in the rear. Had to go into safe mode and do a bunch of stuff. Good thing my sister is an IT tech!
His SS is updated. I'm going to put snacks in the comments. I have to go through the messages to figure out when I gave what.
I think he's cleared his bounce. He's at 228 +8. He just had his +7 snack at +8... wasn't sure if he should have it but given his yellow I figured he could.

Dose for the morning. Should I continue with the 8.5 if he's over 150? Or wait to see if he's rising just to be sure. I know it's getting behind before we start but I do NOT want a repeat of this morning. Maybe try 8.25? I'm not sure if that would make much of a difference in his numbers dropping... I didn't pick up higher carb food while I was out. I can tomorrow. I do have high carb dry I could mix with water if needed. I rather not need to so soon!
I don't know why we had the numbers we did this morning. I don't have a full grasp on Lantus and exactly how it works, like the depot. I've been trying to make sense of it but just don't know when the depot kicks in-- like should it have kept him from going HI this afternoon or does it work on it's own time not releasing with the body's need?
 
You could try the 8.25 units to fine tune the dose. It is just a small percent change, but when Neko was on that sizes dose the 0.25 made a difference, ECID of course. But I would reduce. The 8.5 rakes him below 59 at the moment, so it's too much juice.

As for high carb food, be aware that some IBD kitties react to wheat in gravy wet food. I found some in he Weruva line tha used potato for carbs and Neko handled that much better. She didn't need hat high a carbs. Usually upper evens cabs was enough.
 
Wendy&Neko said:
You could try the 8.25 units to fine tune the dose. It is just a small percent change, but when Neko was on that sizes dose the 0.25 made a difference, ECID of course. But I would reduce. The 8.5 rakes him below 59 at the moment, so it's too much juice.

As for high carb food, be aware that some IBD kitties react to wheat in gravy wet food. I found some in he Weruva line tha used potato for carbs and Neko handled that much better. She didn't need hat high a carbs. Usually upper evens cabs was enough.
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OH shoot. I didn't check here before shooting because he was 488. I'll continue to monitor this morning but I think he'll be ok.
I might decrease for PM dose to 8.25 if his preshot is low enough. I think he might still be fighting off the bounce since he went up so quick.
 
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