Switching from vetsulin to prozinc

Discussion in 'Prozinc / PZI' started by Lisa and Smoky, Nov 22, 2016.

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  1. Lisa and Smoky

    Lisa and Smoky Well-Known Member

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    I read in the instructions to do a test with the control solution before testing the cat.
    I can use the AT strips first
     
  2. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Yes, and it's wise to do this for every new vial of AT strips. Later on I'd recommend doing it when you start a vial of FS strips.
     
  3. Lisa and Smoky

    Lisa and Smoky Well-Known Member

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    So sad right now, smoky was 348 and now at 443 at +5
     
  4. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Still a bit bouncy after his two yellows. Not to worry - you'll get there.
     
  5. Lisa and Smoky

    Lisa and Smoky Well-Known Member

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    Smokys PMPS was 316. The vet called about his test results. He does have pancreatitis and his liver enzymes are high but down a little from earlier. She thinks he will benefit from Cerenia. I have to pick that up for him and get a printout of his test results. Smokys thyroid was normal as is his kidney function.
    The vet said he might be anemic but she would have to run more tests to tell me that.:( said to continue the 3 units until I can get in a curve on Sunday. She told me depending on what his numbers are, I could raise dose to 3.25:facepalm:
     
  6. Lisa and Smoky

    Lisa and Smoky Well-Known Member

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    How long do bounces usually last?
    Will giving him the same dose of 3 units cause him to continue to bounce?
     
  7. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    I see that lower pink tonight. :)

    The pancreatitis diagnosis explains why he's felt ill. Good news about his kidney and thyroid function. I wouldn't worry that you've already gone a bit over 3 u before the Sunday curve. You can stay there until then and do a curve using AT strips or you can decide to raise the dose and do the curve at that dose. Scary when you have a bossy vet but he's your cat, Lisa. Have you investigated other cat vets near you?
     
  8. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Bounces last as long as they last unfortunately. It can be several cycles. I'd stay at or near 3 u because dropping a dose might reduce the bounce but you'd likely have to raise the dose again to get better numbers. You'd just be losing time getting him closer to better numbers.
     
  9. Lisa and Smoky

    Lisa and Smoky Well-Known Member

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    I do have one other clinic near me that treats a lot of FD kitties. I'm going to talk to one of their vets on Monday morning.
     
  10. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Best case would be a vet who knows FD but is willing to collaborate with clients and is open to client being hands on.
     
  11. Lisa and Smoky

    Lisa and Smoky Well-Known Member

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    Do such vets really exist where I live?;)
     
  12. Sue and Oliver (GA)

    Sue and Oliver (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Post on Health with your city/state and see if anyone has a good vet there?
     
  13. Lisa and Smoky

    Lisa and Smoky Well-Known Member

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    I put my city and state in my signature, hopefully that will help. I have to set up the AT2 meter this afternoon. I hope I don't waste all the tests strips figuring it out plus doing the curve tomorrow.

    Smoky is still bouncing. I think I will do the curve on the 3 unit dose. I have already checked him at +3, +4, and +5 since starting the prozinc.
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2016
    Reason for edit: New info
  14. Sue and Oliver (GA)

    Sue and Oliver (GA) Well-Known Member

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    The curve is likely to let you see whether he drops low enough to bounce, if he is dropping early in the cycle or late, or if he is staying high and flat. All great info going forward.
     
  15. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    The AT meter is quite easy to set up. It probably needs the date and time set (if I recall) and then you use the button to dial up the correct code according to the cat code on the vial of test strips. Then, take one strip and use it with the control solution in the little dropper bottle to check that the strips are reading in the correct range. The range numbers for cats are on the strip vial in small print. It's all laid out in the book. You don't need to do anything more than that. :)
     
  16. Lisa and Smoky

    Lisa and Smoky Well-Known Member

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    Since I have an SS set up for a human meter how do I put in the numbers from the AT2 tomorrow? I just happened to think about that.
     
  17. Rachel

    Rachel Well-Known Member

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    Hmmm...might be best to go ahead and set up a new SS for the AT so the numbers match up. I don't think we have any way to transpose the numbers.
     
  18. Lisa and Smoky

    Lisa and Smoky Well-Known Member

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    Can I have two SS set up at the same time? I'm only using the AT2 for when I do a curve.
     
  19. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Hi Lisa,
    Another alternative is to just list your numbers in your thread here in a vertical column and indicate that you're using an AT meter.
     
  20. Sue and Oliver (GA)

    Sue and Oliver (GA) Well-Known Member

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    If you only need it for curve days, you might skip a line and add "Alpha Trak curve" on the first line, then your curve numbers on the next?
     
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  21. Lisa and Smoky

    Lisa and Smoky Well-Known Member

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    I like both of those ideas. I'm going to set up AT2 meter and then run a test using the control solution. I took me an hour to figure out all that with the relion micro meter. :nailbiting: I'll let you know how it goes, here goes nothing.:bookworm:
     
  22. Sue and Oliver (GA)

    Sue and Oliver (GA) Well-Known Member

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    You'll do great!
     
  23. Lisa and Smoky

    Lisa and Smoky Well-Known Member

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    It's a disaster already. I can't figure out how to clear the settings and start over. It kept going back to the reminder alarms and I cld not get it to go back to set the date. I am way too tired to mess with this tonight. I might just do the curve on Monday instead once I get some sleep.
    I figured out how to set it up after taking a break. Now I have to do a test with control solution.:eek:
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2016
    Reason for edit: New info
  24. Lisa and Smoky

    Lisa and Smoky Well-Known Member

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    Looks like I have to call customer support tomorrow. I tried four times to run a test. The meter just keeps showing apply blood symbol until it finally turns off. I guess I will have to wait to do a curve unless I use my relion meter. I might have to return the whole kit and get another one.:(
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2016
    Reason for edit: Add on to post
  25. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    I apologize if you know this already: the AT strip has two very tiny finger-like projections, one on either side just above the square bottom end of the strip. You have to put one of these tiny fingers into the blood drop and it sucks it up from there. It takes very little blood to get a reading. I read someone's post on here a while back and that person couldn't get a reading because of mistakenly thinking the square bottom of the strip had to touch the blood drop.
     
  26. Lisa and Smoky

    Lisa and Smoky Well-Known Member

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    Thanks, I will try that tomorrow. I thought you had to put a drop of test solution directly on the little fingers. A friend of mine told me to put a drop of the solution on the end of my finger and then let the meter sip up the drop.
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2016
    Reason for edit: New info
  27. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    The little fingers do the work of sipping. All you have to do is get one at the edge of the drop of liquid, whether it's test solution or blood. When I do a control solution test I just squeeze the little bottle until a drop is bulging out of the end of the nozzle and I put one of the little fingers into its surface. Putting a drop onto your finger works fine too.
     
  28. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Hi Lisa,
    I see you decided to give Smoky 3.25 u for curve day. Good call regardless of what the vet said. You'll get more confident making your own decisions over time. He's your cat after all. :)

    I suggest you start a new thread mentioning your curve day in its title so we can find it quickly through the day today. Have you solved the problems you were having using the AT meter?
     
  29. Lisa and Smoky

    Lisa and Smoky Well-Known Member

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    OK I figured it all out last night. The test with control solution was within the specified range. The AT2 meter is working and used it this morning. I decided to give him just under 3.25 units in am. Smokys BG was 568. I can do the curve today and can keep an eye on him today and tomorrow.
     
  30. Lisa and Smoky

    Lisa and Smoky Well-Known Member

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    Post in Health or Prozinc or both?
     
  31. Sue and Oliver (GA)

    Sue and Oliver (GA) Well-Known Member

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    I'd post here. When you are looking for specific dose advice, you are more likely to get it here. It may take awhile because we are a small forum, but most ProZinc users reply to threads here. People on Health who don't or haven't used ProZinc usually don't (and shouldn't) give dose advice. If you ever have an emergency, post in both places so you have the most "eyes"

    Good luck. I'll be in and out today but will keep an eye out for your numbers.
     
  32. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Just a reminder - the AT meter will read higher than your ReliOn and more so at higher numbers. That 568 BG wouldn't look so scary had you measured it with your ReliOn. Glad all the hardware is working for you now. :)
     
  33. Lisa and Smoky

    Lisa and Smoky Well-Known Member

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    Thanks, at the end of the curve I'll post all the numbers at one time.
     
  34. Lisa and Smoky

    Lisa and Smoky Well-Known Member

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    My old vet called to see how Smoky was doing. I told them he was up to 3.25 units and he suggested going right to 4 units. I said I'm not comfortable with that and he changed it to 3.5 units. He also said that it doesn't really help or do any good to raise it only by quarters. It would seem they think the answer is just keep raising the dose all the time.
     
  35. Sue and Oliver (GA)

    Sue and Oliver (GA) Well-Known Member

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    I can't see much downside to raising slowly. If it is too little, based on your home testing, then you raise it. Jumping up in dose may not only pass over a dose that might have been good, but it raises the chances of a low and a hypo. What is hardest to get about this sugar dance, for beans and vets, is that it can't be solved fast by dumping in more insulin. It is a slow process of raising, testing and evaluating.
     
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  36. Lisa and Smoky

    Lisa and Smoky Well-Known Member

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    So why is it so hard for vets to understand that concept? I talked to another vet near me who seems more willing to work with me about smokys diabetes. They are going to look over his records and get back to me.
     
  37. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    I hope this one works out better for you, Lisa. Re small dose increases: almost every one of us has proof that a small increase can make a difference.
     
  38. Lisa and Smoky

    Lisa and Smoky Well-Known Member

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    Smoky seems to be feeling a little better. I started him on Cerenia last night. The vet said to give him 1/4 tablet every 3 to 4 days for nausea.
     
  39. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Good news that he's feeling better. :) Maybe try 3.5 u tomorrow AM?
     
  40. Lisa and Smoky

    Lisa and Smoky Well-Known Member

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    I can't monitor him tomorrow during the day. I was thinking about giving him 3.5 units Wed pm since I can watch him then.
    Unfortunately, I can't go home for lunch tomorrow to get in a +5 test .
     
  41. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Good plan. Always best to do what's safe and what makes you comfortable.
     
  42. Lisa and Smoky

    Lisa and Smoky Well-Known Member

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    I gave him 3.5 units in am since my roommate is there to keep an eye on him for me. His BG was 303 this morning.
    She will let me know if he has any signs of a hypo. She does know what to do if that would happen.
     
  43. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    I like that his AMPSs are trending downwards. Keep it up, Smoky! :)
     
  44. Lisa and Smoky

    Lisa and Smoky Well-Known Member

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    He was at 269 at +8, another yellow:)
     
  45. Lisa and Smoky

    Lisa and Smoky Well-Known Member

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    The vet at the cat clinic told me she did research about dosing cats by cycles.
    She then told me that I shld keep Smoky on the same dose for 1 to 2 weeks.
    The 3.25 units and that I don't need to test him anywhere near as often as I do. She said it's very hard on the cat to poke him all the time. She asked me for any additional BG numbers I had for him since Monday. She didn't ask so I just let her assume I was using a pet meter. Is there any research that's says it's a bad idea to dose cats by cycles?
     
  46. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    I don't know if there's research on this topic. I do know that Lantus users following the SLGS protocol are told to hold a dose for 5 - 7 days. My vet had me holding a dose with Teasel (on ProZinc) for a week between curves before I came to FDMB. What happened is that if he was at an ineffective dose that left him high for a week he became resistant to that dose - ie., lost sensitivity. I call it getting stuck. Then I'd have to raise the dose to make him budge and a lower dose that worked a few weeks before no longer worked. Holding for a week or more might work if your cat stays sensitive to the insulin but not for cats like my guy. He was on Lantus for 2 months just after his diagnosis and the same thing happened - stuck in high numbers and wouldn't come down.

    Does Smoky seem unduly stressed by all the ear pokes? Many vets think that it's too much for owner and/or kitty but you've seen for yourself that it's the way to know what's going on, whether a dose is effective or not, etc.
     
  47. Lisa and Smoky

    Lisa and Smoky Well-Known Member

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    I do smokys paw pads and he doesn't put up a fuss unless he is really hungry.
    Most of the time he just lays there with a " can we just get this over with so I can get my yummy low carb snack ":D He seems to be doing fairly well so far on the 3.5 unit dose. His PMPS was 337, I'm wary that he will bounce again as it common with him. Smoky also is like Teasel in that he had been stuck in higher numbers for quite some time.
     
  48. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Then I guess you'll have to decide for yourself whether you want to follow the vet's advice or keep doing what you've been doing here. You have evidence that the FDMB approach works. :)

    Yes, the 3.5 u is good at this point.
     
  49. Lisa and Smoky

    Lisa and Smoky Well-Known Member

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    I don't really feel that comfortable following the vets advice. I did talk to another vet near me and am waiting to hear back from them.
     
  50. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Good idea.
     
  51. Sue and Oliver (GA)

    Sue and Oliver (GA) Well-Known Member

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    I think vets often worry about overwhelming their patients, so they suggest holding the dose and infrequent home testing. Our protocol definitely advocates more frequent testing and reacting to levels about every 6 cycles. I think it's a way to move faster to regulation and keep the cat safe from low numbers and hypos. It is too much for some people who come here, and they either drop off the forum or don't post often. It isn't for everyone. But I think it's the best chance for regulation and remission.

    Our anecdotal evidence suggests that testing creates a bond between parent and kitty and is not a stress inducing activity. Holding a dose when it isn't working doesn't make sense to me.
     
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  52. Lisa and Smoky

    Lisa and Smoky Well-Known Member

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    I think Smoky has been doing a lot better on the Prozinc lately. The vetsulin made him depressed and caused huge drops and spikes in just a few hours time.
    I don't trust a vet telling me to just give a certain dose for a week and rarely test the cat.
     
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  53. Lisa and Smoky

    Lisa and Smoky Well-Known Member

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    Smoky threw me for a loop this morning. AMPS was 214. :woot: A bounce from last nights 337? not sure if I shld give same dose of 3.5 for am?
     
  54. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Wow! Great news, Lisa! Stressful though ... You might be seeing that 3.5 u is Smoky's breakthrough dose but you need more data to know for sure.

    I think if you were home to monitor you could try 3.25 u. If you're at work dropping to 3.0 u might be more comfortable for you. Can you test him at lunch time? This is one of those situations where you don't want to backtrack too much but still keep him safe. Crazy-making!
     
  55. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Lisa, would you mind starting a new thread so your most recent posts are easier to get to? :)
     
  56. Lisa and Smoky

    Lisa and Smoky Well-Known Member

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    How do I create a link to carry all my old posts over to the new one. I gave smoky 3.5 in am but I gave him a little bit of his high carb gravy food just in case. I can check him at +4.5 when I go hone for lunch.
     
  57. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    I think one way to do it is to highlight and copy the URL in your browser bar at the top when you're on your current thread, start a new thread and give it a title, then paste the URL into your first entry on the new thread. I also number my threads sequentially so that helps if I want to go back to an earlier one.

    Smoky should be fine with a little higher carb food on board and you being able to test at lunch time. Exciting! :D
     
  58. Sue and Oliver (GA)

    Sue and Oliver (GA) Well-Known Member

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    He is looking good, Lisa. Yes, stressful, but try to remember - we were anxious for lower numbers. It is just scary when you start seeing what you were wanting! And it's a delicate balance to keep the momentum without putting him in low ranges when you can't be there. You are and have been erring on the side of caution and planning to catch his nadir. That is the best way to handle it and continue to work to pay for his insulin. :D
     
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  59. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Your pink earlier could be a bit of a bounce number. Just keep doing what you're doing.
     
  60. Lisa and Smoky

    Lisa and Smoky Well-Known Member

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    I figured maybe he bounced a little especially with the higher carb gravy food.
     
  61. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    I agree. I'm really glad he feels better and that the ProZinc is easier on him.
     
  62. Lisa and Smoky

    Lisa and Smoky Well-Known Member

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    Getting ready for his pm shoot. I think I will stay with the 3.5 units for a few more cycles. I had planned on doing a mini curve this Sunday and will see how he is doing by then. I'll be going on my laptop to work on starting a new thread with a link to my old thread.
     
  63. Lisa and Smoky

    Lisa and Smoky Well-Known Member

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    Smoky AMPS at 396, no shot for pm.
     
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