Those of you that make the raw diet...

...what equipment are you using? I was looking at Feline's Pride's equipment, then thought, "Why not ask FDMB? They'd know what's what in the raw diet making world!" So, everything you can tell me down to things like "bleach is the cheapest sanitizer" or "I like this spatula with this grinder" as well as rough pricing, best places to shop for it, etc. Or post a link that already addresses my questions.

As an update, mine are all still on canned (Friskies, Sophistocat, 9-Lives) and the only thing I'm adding is 1/2 capsule Slipper Elm Bark powder per feeding and Brita pitcher water (not as much water, worth a try). Now I see gelatinous poo from all three. :roll: Before trying just plain ole canned-to-plate with nothing again, I want to try raw. I like Dr. Pierson's ideas, and her ideas have often worked for my cats (except Grey...she didn't do raw, and barely tolerated canned). My cats go CRAZY over raw chicken gizzards, so I think I can get them to eat raw without much trouble. Another FWIW, I thinking about chicken breasts/thighs lightly cooked with some plain rice (maybe added taurine?) and see if that diet settles their stomach. Maybe as time goes on, less rice and then Dr. Pierson's recipe? What do yall think? I don't know if I have senstitive cats (all three???), or what.

As always, thanks!

Oh, I haven't called the vet yet, I've been so swamped with school and then a friend's kitten was sick. He bought him a little over a month ago from PetSmart (local humane society), 3 month old orange tiger kitten. Put him down yesterday of FIP (it was BAD), some kind of heart condition, and liver cancer. He's been shipped off for autopsy at a research facility. Yet the humane society wanted to argue the owner's claim he bought a kitten with fleas and earmites. Just...wow. The friend...he is destroyed over it. Doing my best to console him.

 

I feed my cat raw homemade using the TCFeline premix. It has all the vitamins and minerals in it, all you need to add is the chicken and liver. They have a premix with liver powder in it if you don't want to mess with liver. I'll be getting that next time because liver is NASTY!! I don't even grind the chicken. I chunk it up. I buy boneless skinless thighs and breasts. I typically do 2/3 thighs and 1/3 breasts. My cat inhales this food. He has gotten tired of everything I've ever fed him EXCEPT this food. He just loves it. He's eating the same amount of food as when he was on canned, but he's actually lost a bit of weight (which he needs to do!!). Also, there is no odor to the poo when they eat this food!! The size of the poo is much smaller and is very light and crumbly. He's never had any tummy issues on this food.

Hope this helps!!

 

Hello to you,
I have been feeding raw for months now and my girls 2 of 3 love it.
I bought the rad cat, primale and natures varity at first. Putting down a bit with the canned, adding a small amount of fora flora and tuna juice.
Now, I have my own grinder and we are fully into it. I still do a bit of canned but I follow Dr. Lisa and bought the vitamins at the iherb. At first grind, I did not add vitamins, but now I do and grind about 6 # at a time. I found some small and large baby food jars on craigs list... grind and store in freezer.
My girls have never ever looked this great...ever!
PM me if you would like and good luck

 

I think Dr. Lisa's web site lists where to buy some of the equipment and supplements: http://catinfo.org/?link=makingcatfood

Another good web site to learn about raw food is http://www.catnutrition.org/faq.html There's a section with a list of recommended equipment and other supplies.

 

Since I'm broke and a nursing student (read: no extra time), I'm interested in the premix Patty mentioned, and the way she's doing it (chunks added)...it's on catinfo.org website...anything wrong with that option? My new babies are 1 year, and 2 at 8 months. I do not want to short change their nutrition, especially as youngin's! The only history they have is diarrhea. I've treated with Revolution, Droncit, and they had a stout Panacur round in case of Giardia. I've not been able to single out a food, but 9-Lives tuna adds umpf to the odor. That's it. They are playful (albeit destructive), bright eyed, normal temps, no pale/sticky gums. Just smelly diarrhea.

I don't mind adding more of something to their diet, it's the mess I have to clean up that's not cool. I'm already scrubbing both litter boxes 2 times a week, picking usually 3-4 times a day to keep house odor down. Burn candles, changed air filter again...

 

I had my guys on raw for about a year. I was using a grinder attachment to my KitchenAid to grind the chicken and used the same pre-mix at Patty. Gizmo was about 1 yr at the time I started feeding raw. Both cats were happy with it. It took about a week or two for their systems to adjust -- Gabby had a bit of loose poo but it cleared. I was feeding 3/4 thigh and 1/4 chicken breast. Personally, I didn't have a problem with the livers but I suspect chunks of liver would be less appetizing than when it's put through a grinder. To be honest, by the time I was done with pre-mix and buying organic chicken, I was spending about the same as buying Wellness.

 

Please do not feed rice to obligate carnivores. I have never met a cat yet that needed rice to 'settle' his stomach. There is absolutely no physiological reason to feed rice to a species that does not even have the enzymatic make up to deal with grains.

 

Thank you Dr. Pierson! I'll leave the rice out. I think I'll just start adding some chunked raw to their canned with some added taurine. Hopefully I'll get the sampler premix on order today.

 

Nothing wrong with that :smile:

Two other pre-mixes you could use are Better In The Raw (the nutrition info for a 120 gram serving lists 1.2% carbs http://www.knowbetterpetfood.com/nutrition_facts_cat_food ) and Alnutrin (there's a few different ones depending on the type of raw you are making).

There's also the "frankenprey model" raw diet that is 80% muscle meat, 10% organs, and 10% bone and no additional vitamin/mineral supplement, like what a cat in the wild would eat. You can Google search for more info about that.

Commerical raw food is always an option but many contain fruits and veggies and other things which a cat doesn't need. There some brands that do not have unncessary ingredients. Rad Cat Raw and Feline's Pride are two that I know of.

 

I have never priced the pre-mixes but I have heard that this really drives up the cost of homemade

Does anyone have any pricing comparison?

I need to find the time to do this but am swamped with work and I figure that someone else here may have some info.

 

I bought my northern industrial #12 grinder off ebay for $52 last January from a liquidation seller (new in packaging). Yesterday I just made a batch of Dr. Pierson's recipe. 18 pounds of meat + 2 pounds heart and 1.5 pounds liver took me almost 2 hours from set up through clean up. Made enough food to last my three for almost a month and a half. I bought my supplements about a year ago and haven't had to restock quite yet. $40 in supplements. The chicken is perdue chicken thighs - cost $37 at the grocery store. Not bad for a savings of roughly $70 a month over canned food in my house.

 

Hi Kelly,

When you compared the cost savings with canned food, what price point of the canned were you considering? There is such a wide range of canned food prices from Friskies on up.

 

After looking at the price on the premixes last night and estimating what I know I can get chicken and chicken livers around here for I'm seriously considering putting all 13 of my cats on a raw diet. Because if I have done my math correctly it will only run me about an couple dollars more to use the premix and fresh chicken than it does to keep them on Friskies and the added health benefits for everyone here would far out weigh that slight increase in expense, plus I figure I will also make up that little extra in the amount of litter we go thorough as well. Since it will be less garbage in thus less output as well.

I already know my bunch will just about take my arm off for raw chicken so I don't think I will have any problems getting them to eat it.

The only reason I haven't considered it before was because I'm not sure the wiring in our house would hold up to the power needed for a grinder that will handle grinding up bone. If you remember the old Green Acres where they had all the cords in the house with numbers on them and they could only plug in stuff that equalled 5 well that is kind of our house...lol I can't run the toaster and the microwave at the same time or I'll pop a breaker..sigh.

Mel, Maxwell, Musette & The Fur Gang

 

Better In The Raw says ~$0.60/day including meat (I'm assuming for one cat). I spend more than that on one cat per day on canned. Like you said MommaOfMuse, especially when comparing the health benefits, it's a winner. And this rental house I'm in...questionable wiring as well. I'm ordering trial sizes of all the ones this thread has listed and see what the kitties want. I'm going to pick up some chicken thighs today to see if I can go ahead and start getting them used to this idea, although like yours they go nuts over gizzards, even cold! They go after any meat I'm eating, cooked, raw (sushi)...so I think I'll be ok but I want these tummies to settle sooner than later. It's been too long.

Question: I can get beef and fish scraps for free, can I use any of that occassionally in the mix? They LOVE beef! I'll use chicken or turkey thighs/breast as their standard faire, but would like to offer them some variation and for free at times. Good/bad idea?

 

My cost comparison is with Fancy Feast at $0.55 a can. I feed 7 cans a day to my crew (3oz a can) which equals to $3.85 a day of FF. Multiplied by 30 for the average month equals $115.50. So it is actually a savings of $78 a month for me to be specific.

 

I, too, follow Dr. Lisa's Recipe and Sneakers LOVES it!

My first order from iherb ran about $45-50 with the $5 off coupon and the only thing that will run out first will be the bone marrow powder. I probably cook my chicken a little more than necessary as Sneakers doesn't eat a lot of the raw, but everything else is the same. I do 9lbs at a time and my mom let me "borrow" her mixture that has a grinder attachment- all plastic so no bones allowed- and get enough for 21 days. I figured it out and it came to .24 cents for the meal supplies plus prep time. First was over 3 hours, second was down to 2. I chunk and grind it all together but I think Dr. Lisa only grinds the bones (which I can't do), eggs, and liver together. So mine is a truly ground meal while I think Dr. Lisa's is a chunk meal. Ground fits better in the trays anyway.

I did up the water an extra cup for the 9 lbs- I think I do 4 cups now and instead of tubs I freeze the mixture in ice cube trays (one cube=1 ounce) rather than in tubs. Last batch took 12 14 ice-cubed trays :idea: once frozen pop them out and place them in a freezer baggie for when you need it. Then I defrost one or two cubes in the microwave at a time- some warm, some cold- mix in 1 to 2 more teaspoons of water depending on the ounce used- makes it like gravy- and happy kitty! If she leaves some of the 2 ounces left (drinking all the 'gravy') I just add a little more water, stir, and it is ready for when she goes back for seconds. This way I also know how much she is eating each day.

And, yes, her poop is a LOT better! I used to think she dragged some dead bird inside sometimes the smell was awful but no- she had just pooped! Hardly smells and less of it as well.

I would love to find a beef recipe to offer her. I know i'd get tired of the same thing day in and day out.

 

I have an old hand turn grinder at my mom's, I think I will pick that up next time I visit and try the raw diet...Junior has no problem with wet food, loves his Fancy Feast, but my civvie Sparky, needs to lose a little, and he refuses wet food, but does like raw chix when I cook it for me & DH.

will look into supplements too. don't want to go to crazy til In know if it will work!

have a great weekend.

 

I have an old hand turn grinder at my mom's, I think I will pick that up next time I visit and try the raw diet...Junior has no problem with wet food, loves his Fancy Feast, but my civvie Sparky, needs to lose a little, and he refuses wet food, but does like raw chix when I cook it for me & DH.

will look into supplements too. don't want to go to crazy til In know if it will work!

have a great weekend.

 

hmjohnston & all,

I have added turkey - no bone and some beef fat - approx. 3 oz trimmed from a brisket. I also purchased some quail - frozen and added that too.
I cook the chicken 325 for 10 min a side, drop in cold water for 15 min or so and put in baggies in frig on friday...Saturday, get out 4 oz liver, 4 oz gizzard, 4 oz hearts and some beef fat. I did reduce the lb of chicken to allow for quail and turkey meats. I do this per 3 lb of chicken and grind. I have found my time is getting better the more I am getting used to the routine of it all. I also cut a funnel to help get that mixture into the jars. They (2) eat about 6oz or so per day.... I am sooo glad that I did this slowly and they have adapted so well.

Something you can get is rabbit to add to mixture or do separately and add per serving. We are trying the natures rabbit medallions right now on a separate plate.. at first, they were not to sure, now, it is going well.

I will try to add some raw with their mixture. I will probably do separately and just add per serving until I know they like it. I have not added the egg yet, but I have tried something that Baxter's mom has done, cook on stove, cut off the white and feed the yolk, it went ok. It will be better when momma can cook it better! lol!

I usually do 6 lbs per grind so that I can keep some on hand but I guess I will be doing more at one time soon as they are eating more of the raw and less of the canned!

I am a real believer of this raw foods as they look soo great and Bean has finally gained from pre dx 11.9 to dx at 8 and now 10.20 last week end. They seem to have lots of energy and their coats are just beautiful!

I am wondering a bit about duck tho, wanted to see if someone has added this to the raw? They really seem to enjoy the frz dried so thought it might be something that I could add to the chicken mix??????

 

Not much of a human cook so becoming one for a kitty is a learning experience. Know I know how much to cook- 10 minutes per side and that goes all the way through? Mine are usually in there for 40 minutes! Not sure about getting too much raw in but I did have some pink in the last batch and she is okay with it- as long as it has the other 'stuff' with it.

Sneakers does look and act much better now with the change. She used to have dandruff that would clump her fur together quite awful.

 

No, that does not go all the way thru... will be raw. I cook the chicken leg quarters and a turkey leg every once in a while (when I remember). I dunk in cold water to stop the cooking process. In approx 15 -20 min take out of the water, put in the baggies and back in frig. Next day, I cut the leg quarters in parts and pull off (cut w/ scissors or knife) most of the meats. I then run that thru the grinder, bone and all. With the hearts, livers, gizzards and again sometimes the turkey meat (no bone) or whole (bones & all) quail. I will mix my water and vitamins together and when done grinding, I will put all the mixture in a large s. steel serving tray (like you see at a buffet) that I got at a thrift store. I then will mix the vitamins in the meat grind. I use a funnel to put into babyfood jars and stick in freezer. I pull out about 3 ea and stick in frig to thaw. It usually takes about 2 days to thaw for them to eat. I rotate until I am about down to 5-10 jars and grind again.
My routine is getting better and therefore the time it takes is getting better. Like I mentioned before, I do 6# right now and will probably do 9 next time as the recipe is done in 3#. I buy the chicken in 10# bags and separate into 3# bags (using kitchen digital scale) before freezing. I do the same with the hearts, gizzards and livers - weighing 4oz per baggie.
My girls are doing absolutely great on this. I am so glad I tried it. I have only 1 that will not eat it. She is 16 (almost) and I really dont push it with her, but Bean and Ittle Sista love it.
I cannot get them to eat the chucks tho?? Just will not do it! So I feed frz dried treats - hope that will help w/ dental some.

Kay & Junior,
When I first started the raw grind, I was also feeding the canned. I did not even buy the vit. then. I just did 3# of grind and put about 2 tablespoons in baggies and set it down with the canned. I would add a bit of tuna juice to it to intice and some fora flora. It worked, took a bit, but it did. About the 3rd time of grinding, I added the complete amount of vitamins. I think the second grind I did, I added about 1/2 of the vitamins to get them used to the change from none at all. I bought the vit. from iherb, the same place that was suggested on the recipe and cost under 40.00 and will last a long time.

Let us know how it goes.

 

Just wanted to say thanks to everyone putting in their input...it is really appreciated! Not just by me, but by potential lurkers like myself before I joined when Grey was first diagnosed as a diabetic.

Thanks everyone! I hope to eventually move to Dr. Pierson's raw diet with a grinder, but for now premixes are my best option.

Suzanne

 

Got the TCFeline in, waiting on Alnutrition and Better In The Raw to come in. The cats LOVE the raw chicken thighs I've been adding to their canned! Adding a few gizzards too since the only taurine I could find had magnesium (magnesium silcate?) in it, and I think I read somewhere that that isn't a good one to add? I could be wrong, so please confirm either way since eventually I'd like to move towards Dr. Pierson's recipe for cost. Found out that a grinder won't pull as much current as my microwave, and I know a free electrician who can evaluate my rental for me for safety. Anyway, I've not added enough chicken to really alter their nutrition, just to get them a taste. I throw in some gizzards trying to make sure they get some taurine. Hearts are not to be found in my area.

Now, a question: Why chicken thighs? My guys love them, so no biggie, and I've got an inquiry to another friend (chef) who knows what meats are what as far as tough, fatty, too much bone, etc. I saw on Dr. Pierson's site that breasts don't have enough fat, and I agree with her that breasts are too expensive anyway. I'm curious about frying quarters...just trying to find the most bang for my buck. If thighs it is, then I'm in luck since again mine love them!

Thanks again everybody!

 

Talked to the chef, he said thighs were definately the most bang for my buck. Cool.

Made a single batch (9 servings) of the TCFeline chicken with liver powder already in it...wow! It smells better than canned cat food, and my three cats for the first time since I've had them ate a WHOLE meal in ONE sitting. They LICKED the bowls clean, no joke! At first they were all purring, then the growling started (guarding their plates), then I'd growl at them to hush, then silence, then purring, then growling...I wish I had a video! :lol:

For dental reasons I wanted mostly raw, and the chef I talked to gave me an interesting tip. He knew I liked to buy a bunch of meat while on sale, and ziplock/freeze it (meat tends to be frozen in the grocery package anyway). He also knew that I was looking at preparing meat for a couple of days at a time and was cooking lightly to get rid of surface bacteria. The tip: I heat the oven to 550 degrees (yes, 550), take frozen chicken and put it in a rack pan. I watch for the skin to begin to brown (singe, rather...less than 5 minutes), pull it out and dunk in cool water. It kills the surface bacteria, and I have more raw meat to work with. Also, for those of you like me that are afraid of sharp knives but chunking is a task? I use the Kiwi knife from Thailand: http://www.wokshop.com/HTML/products/cl ... nives.html. The pic on the left, the pointed 11 x 2 inch for $4.95 is what I use. I can carve frozen meat from the bones that way. It's sharp, but I don't feel like I'm in danger of myself.

 

Gadget had the first perfectly formed poop tonight (bad diarrhea since I've owned him) with ZERO odor!!! I'm totally sold on the raw diet!

 

Hey!!! Congrats to Gadget on the solid poop. That's awesome.

I think I'm going to order some of the premixes to dip my toe into making food for my cats. My BF Dave cooked for his dogs all the time and added supplements, so I'm used to the idea. I don't think I'll be getting a grinder though.

Here's my question: what kind of meat do I buy? It sounds like chicken thighs is a good place to start. Do I just put them in the food processor to grind them up?

 

Chicken thighs and breasts are a good to start with. You could use turkey thighs and breasts or any other similar poultry/game bird part. You can buy "exotic" meats like rabbit and venison from Hare-Today.com

A large capacity food processor fitted with a grinding blade (is there such a thing?) might work. Or you could just chop the raw meat up into easy to eat pieces.

 

One of the sites Squeem mentioned (Know What You Feed) said to start feeding some raw food added to what they are currently eating-about 10% can be fed with out adding supplements. I'd like to try chiken thighs- that seems like a good place to start. I also read that I shouldn't be pre-ground....does this mean that I need to buy whole thighs and grind them up? Sorry if this is a dumb question!

 

Thanks Squeem. I've got a "mack truck" sized food processor that I think would take a limb off. One of the weirder grocery stores I go has all kind of nasty stuff there. Who'd ever think I'd be BUYING that junk? What are gizzards? Should I get them too? What about liver just for kicks?

 

Not a dumb question at all! The reason for very lightly cooking the outside of the chicken is to kill surface bacteria. If it is already ground, then the bacteria got mixed in with the meat. And yes, with the premixes you can just chunk the meat. that's what I'm doing until I decide which grinder to buy. Even then I'm still going to chunk some of the meat for them to chew on for dental health. I also throw in gizzards if I'm short a little on the amount of meat to add to the pre-mix. Gizzards are another teeth cleaner, so win-win for me!

Gizzards are an organ that a chicken has for grinding up things. It's fibrous (teeth cleaner) and has some taurine in it. Heart if great for taurine, if you can find it. I had already been giving them gizzards as snacks, but to try the thighs I added it to their existing food to see if they would eat it. They'd eat just the chicken pieces I mixed in and walk away, then come back later and reluctantly eat the canned.

Right now I've only used the TCFeline Plus (w/ chicken liver) and added the thigh meat. The regular size is $54 (that includes shipping), and if following the directions and feeding 1/4 cup twice a day for one cat you get 90 meals. I have 3 cats and right now I'm feeding them lunch since 2 of them are 8 months old (I didn't want to short change nutrition requirements with growing kitties). As far as cost, $54 of premix lasts 20 days. That comes out to $2.70/day in just premix for my 3 cats. With Friskies, I'm averaging $3.60/day for my 3 cats. And a LOT in litter, and candles, and incense..it's ridiculous! Anyway, the cost of the premixes will pay for the grinder in my case. Not to mention my time chunking the meat. But, it got me started and I've got the chef and others looking for me a grinder. In the meantime, I think I'll ask if their commercial one will grind bone...until I can get my own.

Best of luck and I hope it helps you! By the way, and this is SOOO bad of me, I admit it...but I haven't picked the litterboxes since Tuesday around 9 pm. I was having to pick 4 times a day to reduce odor, and was still lighting candles. There is NO odor in the house right now. Speaking of, going to pick the litterboxes now. That's not a habit I want to get into, I had 3 tests 2 papers and a presentation to give this week. I was a bit swamped.

Good luck whichever way you go! I bought all 3 of the TCFeline trial, 1 Better In The Raw, and you simply mail in a self-addressed stamped envelope for a free trial of the Alnutrition. But when comparing to Dr. Pierson's costs of about $0.63 to $0.87 per cat of FINISHED product...I'm going in all the way with her recipe.

Suzanne

Suzanne

 

this is the grinder I have and the one Dr. L suggested and has. been using for 5 years and is going strong. I do #30 meat 2x a month.
this is also a great price. cannot speak to other grinders but I believe Dr. l said something on her site somewhere
http://www.onestopjerkyshop.com/tasin-t ... grinder-1/

 

Hi Suzanne-

You said <<Good luck whichever way you go! I bought all 3 of the TCFeline trial, 1 Better In The Raw, and you simply mail in a self-addressed stamped envelope for a free trial of the Alnutrition. >>

Questions:
Do they seem to taste good to the cats?
Do any seem better or worse? Which would you recommend?
I was going to do the self -adressed thing but they don't say how much postage??!! What did you do?
Did you try plain raw first to see if they would eat it *consistantly* before putting out the $$$ for the pre-mixes?

 

I've only received the 3 TCFeline so far, and the only one I've tried so far is the Plus with chicken liver. They eat it all in one sitting and lick the bowl clean. They are crazy about it! Next I'll try the beef liver one, then the original that you add liver too last (after the other 2 brands come in). I figured adding liver THEN transitioning to Dr. Pierson's recipe was a good way to go.

I added plain raw gizzards first right after I got them for snacks/dental health. They LOVE them. So I figured the raw diet was worth a try, so I picked up some thighs. I popped the seal on the package and all of them flew into the room screaming for it. I put it in the oven on a rack pan, just long enough to brown the skin lightly. Threw them in ice water to stop the cooking process, then chopped. I threw some at them, they ate it and looked for more. Then I added it to their canned until the premix came in. I made an immediately switch to premix and no canned, and now they have the small pretty no odor poop. A small package of chicken thighs will run about $5, just for you to see if they will have interest. Oh! I don't even warm up the raw food after it is prepared, I take it straight from the refrigerator to the floor. I put it in individual servings after mixing.

The postage I just used the regular ole stamp.

Hope that helps!

 

I've tried Feline Future (what TC Instincts used to be) before using their suggested cooked meat recipie for cats who do not readily eat raw. My cat loved it He loved cooked chicken but with the premix added he went absolutely bonkers for it I only fed the mixture as treats. I haven't tried it or TC Instinct or any other premix with just raw meat but at least one of civies would most likely eat it. He leats NV raw and loves raw chicken as treats.

Yes, buy whole thighs or other cuts of meat and chop/grind it yourself at home.

 

This has been SUCH a helpful thread. There were NO thighs boneless or not in the store tonight. I got ground chicken instead and microwaved it a little. (is that the right thing to do for ground chicken??)
Then.....horror or horrors....never before in my LIFE have I bought anything like this.... I bought a package of chicken hearts mixed with chicken gizzards. Eeeeeewwww. OMG -I can't believe it. So....the gizzards were kinda big. I took a chunk out and gave one to each cat. They couldn't really eat them so I put the whole tray in the food processor and made the chunks smaller. I gave them FF, gizzards, ground chicken and added some pumpkin (100% pure) to their food because I've read many times that pumpkin helps harden loose stools. Merlin LOVED it. He gobbled it down. Trinket likes to eat and then take a break and come back a few times. This can be bad because Mer will chow down on her food unless I watch. I think I'm going to go ahead and get some supplements. If it continues to go well maybe I'll go further with this.

Questions:
--is it okay to feed them gizzards as "food" if I add the supplements?
--is pre-ground meat bought from the store considered not as safe to feed raw? Does microwaving it a little help?
--when you say to buy chicken thighs- you mean boneless, right? I should try to grind up boned chicken thigh in my processor, should I?
--I froze most of the RAW and put some in the fridge. Do yours eat it cold out of the fridge?

Did I do everything okay? Thanks guys!!!!

 

Gizzards are best to chunk for teeth cleaning chewing since they are so fibrous. I am not sure they are as good as muscle meat for the main part of their food.

Pre-ground meat basically drastically increases the surface area of the meat, thereby drastically increasing the surface for bacteria to grow on. You don't know how long it has been sitting in the refrigerated section. Nuking might be ok as a one time thing, but you don't want to always do that, since cooking it like that renders some nutrients useless, changes the taste/texture of the food, and probably doesn't get it hot enough to really kill any of the bacteria. If you need to make it with pre-ground meat in a pinch, then you can do what TC instincts suggests and put the ground meat in a pot and add enough water to make it soupy. Cook on low heat until the meat is cooked all the way through. They have pictures and everything on their website. Once cooked, break apart and add in the supplements.

I buy it with bones since I grind the bone. Uncooked bone is easier to break up, but the blade on a food processor is probably too fine of a blade to do a batch of thighs with bone. You will end up with a blade that has divots in it afterward.

Mine have always eaten it cold right out of the fridge.

 

No, it's more as an "accessory" meat. Stick with muscle meat (thighs, etc) as the main part of the diet and add in gizzards, livers, etc as extras.

Dr. Lisa's web site has info about store bought ground meats:

Pre-ground supermarket meat: I hear you asking "But I don't want to buy a grinder....so why can't I just buy ground meat at the supermarket and add a calcium source?" I would never do this for reasons stated below. This method is definitely outside of my comfort zone and is not one that I can recommend.

I buy only whole meats from the market for the following reasons:

1) The surface of whole meats can be washed with water before we grind them. This helps remove the surface bacteria that would otherwise be ground into the meat. For the first 6 years of making cat food, I simply rinsed the meat and skin off with water and then sent the meat/bones/skin through the grinder. I never encountered a single problem when preparing cat food in this manner. I was always careful to source the freshest meat possible by checking with my butcher regarding shipment dates.

However, knowing that the above precautions were no guarantee that I would be feeding a safe diet, I now bake the chicken/turkey thighs to the point where they are ~25-50% cooked on the outside and 50-75% raw on the inside.

I set the oven to 350 degrees but the baking time will vary depending on how thick the thighs are.
http://catinfo.org/?link=makingcatfood#Meat_Types_and_Sources

You can buy either. If you are using a premix that contains bone/calcium, then you probably don't need to buy bone-in meats unless your cats like to gnaw on it a bit. I think bone-in meats cost a bit less than boneless so it might be worth buying and just removing the meat yourself at home.

You can feed it straight from the fridge or warm it up a bit by placing the container/bag of raw meat into some warm water for a few minutes. Mine have no problem eating cold NV raw.

Here are two web sites you might find helpful about feeding raw food to cats:

http://feline-nutrition.org
http://www.catnutrition.org

 

You guys are awesome!!!!

A couple more (hopefully not annoying questions)

--I didn't wash the gizzards before chopping them and feading them!!! Should I have?

--Is a chicken heard considered "food" or an extra?

--how long do you leave your raw out? I picked it up before I left for work. It was out about a total of 40 minutes.

I have some ground chicken to use up. Sounds like I should only use it as TC Instinct suggests - I'll look that up. This feels a little scary for me - like I'm going to make a mistake ad the cats will get sick. At that point I think I'd just drive myself to a nut house, I swear.

 

I don't think it matters. You can rinse the gizzards and meats before chopping if you feel more comfortable that way.

It's an extra. There's really no meat in a head, just cartilage and bone.

30 to 40 minutes is long enough.My civies gobble their raw food up within minutes.

Any new change can be scary :smile: Just follow the directions on the premix package and follow safe handling practices for raw meat (wash all utensils and equipement with hot soapy water, keep meats cold, etc)

 

Thanks Squeem.
Oops - I meant "heart" not head. Would ground chicken heart be considered an extra too?

 

hehe, Traci, do you know what the raw method is called in Swedish? ...... BARF :lol:

 

The supplements I buy here in Sweden are made in-country by a Swedish company Standardt www.standardt.se

I have one big can of powdered bone meal - using that instead of bones, and since using bone meal, the bone marrow contents also comes along in it naturally (when you grind and powder bones), and that contains several minerals and vitamins, cells etc.

I also have a big can of .... acidic calciumcarbonate - milk acidated (right word?) calcium. It has to be acidated calcium, otherwise cats can't use it. I don't add this if I use the powdered bone meal, unless someone is sick and needs extra calcium fast, ( since it has a faster uptake), which has never happened yet though (knock on wood).

Then I have a small can of what's called Fur, and in it it has the vitamins and minerals:
B-vitamin complex
Biotion
Retinol (a-vitamin in form the body can use it. 190 000 IE/kg))
Kisel
Copper (63 mg/kg)
Kolin
Inositol
PaBa
Zink
Iron
Organic sulphur
Histidin
Selenium (1.5 mg/kg)
Animalic aminoacids

Then I also have a small can of what's called Immune, and in it it has the vitamins and minerals:
Retinol (380 000 IE/kg)
Kolekalciferiol (D3 vitamin, 16 875 IE/kg)
Tokoferol (E-vitamin 8600 IE/kg))
Ascorbinacid (C)
Zink
Iron
Kondroitin
Pantotenacid (B5(
Pyridoxin (B6)
Riboflavin (B2)
Tiamin (B1)
Copper (140 mg/kg)
Mangan
Biotin
Pholic acid (Folsyra)
Iodin
Calcium
Kobolamin (B12)
Cobolt
Sodium
Selenium (2.5 mg/kg
Fosfor
Animalic aminoacids


I mix the bone meal and the Fur and the Immune.

These supplements did wonders for Simba in 2007 or 2008 when he had been admitted for long at hospital with shaved inside of back leg and shaved belly, and no matter how long time it went, the hair just didn't want to grow back. But when I started with the ground beef mixed with these supplements, MAGIC happened. Within a very short time, all his hair on the nekked leg and stomach had grown out again. That was magic.

On the cans it says how many tablespoons to add to the meat, according to the cat's kilos weight, but I have done my own version of that too. I weigh the ground beef instead and see how many kilos the meat is, and then take the adviced tablespoons and add them to the meat, calculating the meat instead of the cat. Otherwise if Simba weighs 6 kilos, that would be 8.5 table spoons of powdered supplements a day for him, and it is NOT the supplements he wants, it is the meat, so with so much supplements in, he lose interest, cause IMO the supplements tastes nasty! (yes, I've tasted them). And I try to cooperate with them rather than alienate them . They like the bone meal though. Which makes sense in a way, because when you cook/boil chicken soup or chicken broth for curry sauce, one throw down the whole chicken unboned and let it boil until the flesh starts falling off the bones, and during the whole boiling time the bone marrow is also cooked into the broth, adding its tasty (the meat eaters say) flavour.

 

So, it looks like the Tasin is the way to go. Should I order anything else from One Stop Jerky Shop like plates or blades or...? The grinder is on backorder until February 24th, but I am going to order TCFeline to get me by until then. At least they like it and their shipping is incredibly fast.

I already have a scale, and Wal-Mart has 4-packs of sandwich-style containers for $1.98 that I've been already been using. I have a scale that tares, 22 lb max, and graduation to 0.1 oz. Going to order supplements tonight. I can't think of anything else that I need...thoughts?

 

Stamina and a positive attitude! Cause at first it is messy and takes time.

 

It's messy and takes time now just to chunk and do premix! :lol:

Speaking of messy, the Better In The Raw came in. I went out to eat, came back and the cats have tried chewing through the unopened package...bad monkeys! :roll: I put it and the other TCFeline packs in the freezer now.

 

I would consider heart as an "extra". Heart is a tough muscle and more for gnawing on to keep teeth clean.

 

all blades an plates needed come with the tasin. I am still using the original from 5 years ago

 

Awesome, thank you! I'll get it ordered today, along with disinfectant, silicone spray, and brush kit.

 

I did not order any of those extras. I was mine in really hot soapy water and rinse with 1 ounce clorox in a gallon of water. I bought a bottle brush form the $ store and have yet to need oil for anything

 

I will definately use hot soapy water! I do that now with my knives. And isn't bleach awesome? I got some more rubbermaid containers, can't beat the price and dishwasher safe!

I cannot get over the change in them already. Diarrhea is gone, absolutely no odor from the litter box, coats are slicker...I am SO impressed!

 

yep, raw sure makes a big difference in the "smell" factor. just watch in case they get constipated. A few of mine have and then I give them 1/8tsp mirilax 2x a day until they go. only 2 out of the 8 ever had a problem.I also add extra water to mine. it is almost like a thick cake batter.

 

Well, the jury is out on whether or not raw is gonna work for my critters. I've been attempting to feed them raw for about 3 days along with FF. Their poop smell is already better. The thing is that they seem confused and aren't eating the same. It's weird. Trinket takes a bite or two and burries it and walks away. SHe comes back over and over and eats little nibbles. Merlin ate gizzards with gusto a couple days ago. It seems to have cooled off. I got chicken thighs tonight and cut them into small pieces. They ate some of it. I haven't bought the supplements for this VERY reason. Who knows how long it will be until they start refusing it. I had to pick the raw leftovers tonight up because I didn't want it to sit out too long. I'm just going to keep doing this to see if their poop and farting gets better. Already the gas is improved. I guess Friskies just doesn't agree with them.

 

What is gizzards? Lizzards?


Mine love, adores and worship fresh raw beef. I am the best mama in the world when I bring them that.

 

Gizzards is an organ all birds have to grind up the food for easier digestion. It's a pretty tough organ so it's only good for a cat gnawing on for dental health. Goolgle Translation says the Swedish word for "gizzard" is muskelmage (?).

Traci, I got my rescue civie to eat raw by first feeding her NV freeze dried raw along with canned food. Then I slowly introduced small pieces of the NV raw covered with freeze dried raw and canned food. Then I elminated the canned food and fed the raw/freeze dried raw. Then I fed straight raw. The whole process took just over a week. I think it also helped her her to see my other civie gobble his raw down (he was weaned onto raw) so she could see that it was food.

 

Nice to catch up on the 'raw' talk...

After purchasing the grinder, going slow w/ transistioning and throwing in some Nature Instince Rabbit, I have just yesterday purchased a duck! Frozen and will let thaw enough to cut into pieces and will freeze and add to the batch of raw that I fix. or just do as a side treat until they decide if they like it... They love the duck freeze dried so I thought I would try it. Darn expensive too, but if I am able to add a bit for a flavor change, that will make the invested amount go further (at least in my head).

MY girls (2 of the 3) eat this everyday. I am still feeding the canned but increasing slowing to more raw and less can....they are doing great on it and boy do they look better, feel better (coat), act better but the poooooo is much better

Good goin and nice to see the tas has been around for you at least 5 yrs...as that is what I bought. I did get the scrubbies and the disinfectant.

 

Not that my advice should be taken, but I transitioned them from adding raw gizzards/thighs with their canned to just raw with premix. Seriously, even after immediately cleaning the litterbox and carrying to the outdoor garbage can, the odor would linger in the house when on canned. It was awful. My cats had to feel yucky too, I know I do if I have liquid poo. Mine have improved dramatically since going straight raw. I understand others having a difficult time transitioning though, there is no way Grey would have done raw when diagnosed as diabetic a few years ago. No way no how. I barely got her to eat canned initially, and that was Fancy Feast BEFORE they changed the formula. So I certainly empathize with those trying to transition a cat. I'm lucky with these, the hardest one is only a little over a year old, and eats anything not nailed down.

That said, my supplements will be here before the grinder. Should I try just do raw chunked with supplements (and of course finding some bone meal) until the grinder gets here? Or buy more premix until it the grinder gets here?

I've already figured out my next investment, a deep freezer. I have no room to make 3 cats individual servings of food 3 times a day. Since I require a little help a few days a week for serving lunch (friend has a key and lives 1 block away), I like to keep things easy when dealing with free help. Not to mention, some morning all I have time for is ripping off lids as I run out the door.

Thanks everyone for their questions and input. This thread has made a huge difference in my cats. They are healthier, even more active, and look incredible. They want more attention than ever too, which stinks since I have less time! Oh well, they have each other right? ;-)

 

i buy those disposable containers form aldis (although i do not dispose of them). I freeze in those and take out 1 (well , i take out more than 1 since I have 8 cats) and put in fridge to thaw. with 3 cats, you could have 2 days worth of food. just spoon what is needed from there and put back in fridge for next day

 

I'm still holding out for ice cubes!!! Though with a grinder you can do a whole lot more at one time...

Mom and I went halvsies into a stand alone freezer- 7.5 cu at Home depot for $169 or something like that back in November. It was on sale cheaper than the 5.0 for $179. I have it at my house and it happens to be my feeding/testing/shooting station for Sneakers- that way I don't kick her food in the night :lol: . When the income taxes come the grinder will probably be one of the purchases I make.

Glad to see you heading that way- Sneakers is back on the chicken (mixed 1:1) after a week of FF- I couldn't handle the poo smell !

 

I have been wanting a deep freezer anyway, I like cooking and freezing and didn't have enough space for it even before these guys. These guys just give me a handy excuse. ;-)

But, back to one of my thoughts, I won't have my grinder until some time after 2-24-12, do you think I'll be ok following Dr. Pierson's recipe but with chunked chicken until the grinder gets here? That is, if I find any bone meal locally (herb store maybe).

 

well, I do not think all the supplements will mix very well with just chunked meat.

 

If you look and follow the recipe it looks like the only things she grinds is the meat, liver, eggs- everything else is chunked for dental health and then mixed. Then, when you look at the picture with the bowl it all looked ground and ready for supplements- and a cat at the ready to eat it.

I just wanted to grind it all for sneakers- easier to soup and the supplements mix better.

 

meat, liver, eggs, bones and some skin is what is ground. I also just toss my pills in the grinder also. looks like ground meat when done and then you add water and stir everything really well. then I add my chunks and mix well again. I always add more water than what is called for

 

Thanks everyone! Yall confirmed my thoughts. I'm going to order more premix and use it to transition them to Dr. Pierson's recipe.

My new 14.1 cu. ft. upright freezer will be delivered Monday afternoon...I'm so excited!!! Spring break I'll be making a ton of food, provided the grinder gets here by then.

Thanks everyone for the advice, this has been a bit of investment but in the end my cats look and feel incredible, I go through less litter, and other than the initial investment of the grinder and deep freezer my cat food expenses will be lower!

Suzanne

 

Suzanne
I lost track in this thread of everything...so what did you do that seems to have now made their diarrhea go away and their poop less smelly?

One of my cats has smelly diarrhea and it's the worse.

By the way, I started using Worlds Best Cat Litter and it's much easier to scoop and doesn't crumble and stick to the pan or scooper. I never have to clean the litter box now since the waste just comes out without spreading/crumbling.

best
Martica

 

Thanks for asking Martica! No diarrhea from any of the three! Gadget dropped the little bit of excess fat that he had left, all three have been putting on muscle, have really glossy coats, and they're even more active and loving. I can't tell you how thrilled with putting them on raw! Oh, and the litter box still has no odor and is so much easier to clean. Even the pee spots are easier to clean, I didn't expect that one. As far as initial investment, it will pay itself off in less that a year when I figured litter costs then vs now, at some point I would need to take all three to a specialist to sort this out, plus the cost difference once I get my grinder in to do Dr. Pierson's recipe compared to canned food costs. My cats health and costs are a win-win in less than a year. I'm truly amazed!

Get this: they love getting into this one set of cabinets which drives me nuts. I first used the vacuum cleaner to block it off, but then I personally witnessed them move it out of the way. So I took a large container of unopened bleach and wedged it against the vacuum cleaner to make it harder to move it. They moved the vacuum cleaner anyway. Put a second unopened large jug of vinegar for even more difficulty, and so far they can only move the vacuum cleaner a little, but not enough to enter the cabinet. Problem is, it's 9 month old still-filling-out Mason. He's going to be big, so I may have to just give in or go to steel padlocks! But he has extra jointed thumbs and knows how to use them! Friends have laughed that one day I'm going to come home from school and find a crazy cat party complete with my liquor, house in more disarray than normal, and who-knows-what in the guest bathroom! :lol: