Treating Ziggy (Thread #4)

Discussion in 'Feline Health - (The Main Forum)' started by Natalie and Ziggy, Jun 9, 2018.

  1. Natalie and Ziggy

    Natalie and Ziggy Member

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    Apr 23, 2018
    Hi, everyone. This is a continuation of this thread.

    I'm continuing to give Ziggy 4.5U of Vetsulin, and his numbers have been fluctuating wildly. His nadir numbers have gotten very low (86 at noon today!) while his pre-shot numbers are the highest they've ever been. In terms of behavior, Ziggy is energetic and active and sweet as can be, and his litterbox behavior has really improved a lot. He's still hungry all the time and has gotten a little pickier about his food, but he's gained quite a bit of weight. He's been improving on nearly all fronts.

    Except for his shots.

    Ziggy has become violent during his shots, and claws and bites and hisses every time. He won't tolerate me even checking for fur shots any more. It's extremely frightening and I have to spend an hour afterward just trying to calm down.

    I got a new packet of syringes today and just gave him his first shot with them. Needless to say, it did not go well at all. He refused to let me get near him and scratched both of my hands and forearms so badly that there was blood all over the kitchen floor. I'm all bandaged up now but I'm absolutely terrified. Thankfully, he got his full dose, I think. I tried to feel for a fur shot but he dug his claws into my arm and I had to get away. He despises the new needles, too. It's just the act of getting an injection that makes him angry now.

    I think I'm going to have to develop a new technique for giving him shots. Even just touching his sides now triggers a violent reaction. I absolutely dread giving him his shots now because now it always means that I'm going to get hurt.
     
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2018
  2. Olive & Paula

    Olive & Paula Well-Known Member

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    It could be the insulin itself. When Smokey hit 5 units it stung or burn when giving it.

    Have to say Olive was getting aggressive on Lantus when she hit 8 units. So it could be the insulin causing it.
     
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  3. Natalie and Ziggy

    Natalie and Ziggy Member

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    Apr 23, 2018
    I agree. Sadly I think he just hates the whole processes itself at this point (the shots, I mean. He'll drop everything and come sit down for a test if he hears me so much as touch the glucometer, even in the middle of dinner!). It's a shame because he's doing much better in all other respects. He's like his old self again — even my roommates have remarked that he's like a completely different cat now. I love hearing him chase his toys and gallop around the house from my room. :cat:
     
  4. Natalie and Ziggy

    Natalie and Ziggy Member

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    One thing I forgot to mention is that Ziggy's appetite has really decreased lately. He's still excited when it comes to meal time and always asks me for food, but when I actually give him food, he'll just nibble at it for a minute and then he's done and won't touch it again. Sometimes he'll just turn his nose up right away and disregard the food completely. What's strange is that he won't go back to begging for food afterward — usually he starts chasing after his toys or rolls around in the living room.

    He will still devour any treats or chicken I give him, so it's possible that he's just getting tired of his current food.

    What's weird is that he will eat if I'm sitting right next to him. It's almost like he wants to be supervised.
     
  5. Natalie and Ziggy

    Natalie and Ziggy Member

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    Apr 23, 2018
    Does anyone have some advice for getting Ziggy to eat a little more? He doesn’t show much interest in his wet food and he’s lost a lot of weight this week. I went back to his seafood Friskies yesterday and he loved it at first, but today he was bored of it and hardly touched it. I sprinkled some parmesan on his food and he went crazy over it...for half a minute, then he was all done again.

    It’s not that he’s not eating — he’s just not eating enough. At most he will eat a little less than a quarter of a can at meal time (he used to eat a full can) and wants nothing to do with his automatic feeder anymore (he gagged when he smelled his midnight serving, and it wasn’t spoiled or anything). He still adores his treats and chicken and ham, though, and behaviorally he’s never been better or more energetic. He still has a strong appetite and gets excited whenever I open a can of food...only he doesn’t do more than nibble when it’s time to eat.

    His litterbox behavior has greatly improved. His urine isn’t very sticky anymore, but there wasn’t much in the way of poop this morning.

    I think either Ziggy just wants to be a grazer now, or it might have something to do with his teeth? He licks his food now instead of biting it.

    Any help would be appreciated! His BG has averaged really low lately, and I hate that yet another problem has come up now that he’s doing so well.
     
  6. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    This is the way cats often demonstrate nausea. They approach food, take a few bites or sniff it and then walk away. Nausea can occur with a number of things but one common one in diabetic cats is pancreatitis. He might just be tired of his regular food but it's important to be vigilant. The weight loss you observed this week could be from dehydration. I suggest you get the vet to check him sooner than later. Vet appointments are expensive but not as expensive as treating something that gets out of hand.
     
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  7. Natalie and Ziggy

    Natalie and Ziggy Member

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    Apr 23, 2018
    I will plan on a vet appointment soon. Money is tight right now but I should be able to get him in.

    Just posting to say that this is Ziggy’s first morning with no shot!

    Blood sugars are in the 130-140 range right now. He’s been eating a little better, too. A little Parmesan sprinkled on his food really gets him going. I also figured out that one reason he doesn’t eat as much is because he can’t get to all the food due to the way the bowl is shaped. I put some on a plate this morning and he ate all of it. When he stops eating, he’s waiting for me to mix the food up a bit, then he starts eating again.
     
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  8. Natalie and Ziggy

    Natalie and Ziggy Member

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    Apr 23, 2018
    Just giving a small update on Ziggy, here. He has a vet appointment lined up for this month (finances have been tough lately) but his appetite issues have been resolved. Part of it was about getting him excited about his food again by going back to Friskies Seafood, all of which he gobbled up easily (even the stuff he hated before). Another part was feeding him out of plates, as I suspected eating out of a bowl was giving him trouble, what with his dental issues. This worked perfectly. Now he's eating out of a saucer and he's always asking for more once dinner is over. :)

    He's a complete handful these days. He's so energetic and playful and happy, and he's gained back some of the weight he lost last month — my roommates have remarked that he's a completely different cat now. He's gotten much better about his shots now that he's realized that the new needles (as far as I can tell) don't hurt as much. He wakes me up at dawn every morning to eat and play. I'm completely sleep-deprived, but it's worth it. Every meow makes my day.

    My biggest concerns right now are his teeth and his numbers. His averages have been trending downward, which is good, though his occasional BG spikes are always disheartening. His teeth are still bad and often notice him wincing as he flicks his back teeth with his tongue. I know he will have to get some of them removed, but I wish there were some treat I could give him to fight tartar, even though it probably wouldn't help at this point. I will ask the vet about pain relief for his teeth.

    All in all, he's doing great. :cat:
     
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  9. Idjit's mom

    Idjit's mom Well-Known Member

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    Good luck with the vet appointment. And I'm glad you helped Ziggy by changing out his dining tableware. :D Sometimes the smallest things make a huge difference. I sure hope you can work with the vet on the dental issues, and get Ziggy in even better shape. My goodness, Natalie. look at the changes in him since you started posting. I have followed the story all along and rooted for you and Ziggy all the way. You have done a marvelous job.:bighug:
     
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  10. Beck

    Beck Member

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    Mar 6, 2018
    Great to hear Ziggy is doing better! Pepper became incredibly playful once she had been on insulin for a while too.

    As a disclaimer, I've only been dealing with a diabetic cat for 4-5 months now. But with some of those sporadic BG numbers, I wonder if it's possible Ziggy's bouncing. It might be worth trying a lower dose to see if he's still getting numbers in the same ballpark. If he's had issues with ketones in the past, more caution may be necessary when lowering the dose.

    Again, I'm not the most experienced, so maybe someone else could give better insight on the numbers. I've just noticed with Pepper a couple times that when I lowered her dosage, her numbers didn't go up, but instead basically stayed the same.
     
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  11. Natalie and Ziggy

    Natalie and Ziggy Member

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    Apr 23, 2018
    I've been thinking about possible bouncing, too. I might try adjusting his dose, but 4.5 seems to be the magic number for him when he's above 300.

    I guess I posted too soon, because I just caught Ziggy with poop all over his backside and found that he'd tracked it all over the house. No wonder things were smelling bad this evening. :nailbiting: No diarrhea, though, just an oopsie it seems.
     
  12. Idjit's mom

    Idjit's mom Well-Known Member

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    @Natalie and Ziggy We haven't heard from you in awhile. How is Ziggy doing, how are you doing? Just miss seeing your posts.
     
  13. Natalie and Ziggy

    Natalie and Ziggy Member

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    Hi @Idjit's mom! Thank you for checking in. I haven't been posting much because there hasn't been a lot to report and life's gotten a little busier.

    As far as I can tell, Ziggy's been doing as well as he's ever been. He's a bundle of energy and spends all day either chasing his toys around, jumping on countertops, and napping. He's gained roughly two pounds since he moved in. His blood levels have stabilized somewhat, and now I'm trying to gradually reduce his dose a little, because he appears to have some nasty bounces at times. It's very nice to have woken up to low-200's numbers for the past couple of weeks! His appetite is perfectly normal and he's much better about his litterbox behavior. He hasn't stressed out about his teeth like he used to, though I do hope to get them checked out as soon as financially possible.

    As for myself, I'm doing well! I am enjoying my new living arrangements and the job I moved here for has been nice. Ziggy's basic necessities have put a bit of a financial strain on me, but I just recently paid off one of my student loans, so I have a bit more money to work with.

    I haven't been able to get many curves done, and I always forget to do mid-cycle AM tests, so I hope to catch up on those soon, to get a better picture of where he's at with his dosing. No ketones!
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2018
  14. Butterball

    Butterball Member

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    Feb 2, 2018
    Cats can get something called "whisker fatigue" if their whiskers are constantly stimulated for too long. This happens most often when they're eating from a small or deep bowl. Their whiskers will be constantly brushing up against the bowl and this can cause them discomfort. So switching to a plate and him eating more suggests that could've been one of his issues.

    An untreated diabetic cat will have ravenous hunger because they're not getting any of the nutrients from their food with such high BG. When they become more regulated they will eat less and their appetite will return to normal because now they're actually getting nutrtion from the food. So don't compare his eating habits now with what they were before he started getting insulin

    His dental problems can also contribute to higher BG numbers. Any kind of stress on a cat, whether external stress or internal stress from health issues can raise BG. So that's something to keep in mind until you can get his teeth taken care of.
     
  15. Idjit's mom

    Idjit's mom Well-Known Member

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    I'm so glad you responded. It's ok to just get on and say how you and Ziggy are doing, even if it isn't terribly exciting. Let people take a look at the spreadsheet and help you out on occasion. It's always nice to get input and the support ain't bad either. Check in with the Vetsulin forum too. I'm sure they would appreciate updates.
     
  16. Natalie and Ziggy

    Natalie and Ziggy Member

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    Apr 23, 2018
    My parents visited yesterday on their way to a wedding, and they couldn't believe how good Ziggy looked. I've been seeing him every day so it's hard to detect gradual changes, but my mom said that he must have gained about five or six pounds since he moved in with me. My dad, who originally wanted to put him down, was shocked at how well he's doing. They said he seems happier, fatter, and more energetic than he was at the time of his diagnosis earlier this year.

    Thanks again to everyone here for your help. I'll always remember the three of us petting him in my apartment living room with his belly up and purring like a machine. :)
     
  17. Natalie and Ziggy

    Natalie and Ziggy Member

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    Apr 23, 2018
    I tried reducing Ziggy's dose to 3.75 U so that he would experience fewer spikes and so that his curve would be a little flatter. Unfortunately, after a week of this, it seems to have reversed a lot of the progress he's made over the past couple of months. After he showed extremely high numbers throughout the week, I bumped him back up to 4 U, which has so far been the most effective dose (but sometimes too effective). However, it's looking like 4 U isn't enough anymore, either, and I might have to increase further. :(
     
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  18. Idjit's mom

    Idjit's mom Well-Known Member

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    Sorry I can't advise on dosing, but it's good to see you Natalie. I was just thinking about you and Ziggy this morning, wondering how you both were.
     
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  19. Beck

    Beck Member

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    Mar 6, 2018
    I'm kind of having a similar, but less drastic problem with Pepper's numbers. It seems her right dosage is somewhere between 1u and 1.25u. Unfortunately as I creep closer to the 1.25u, I think her appetite drops like a rock causing abnormal lows. Maybe something similar is happening with Ziggy? It might also be worth considering another type of insulin if you're not happy with the overall results.

    Don't get discouraged, Ziggy is relatively way healthier than before! I read somewhere on here "it's a marathon, not a race" when it comes to regulating the numbers.
     
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  20. Natalie and Ziggy

    Natalie and Ziggy Member

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    Yeah, Ziggy's doing a lot better than he was before. No ketones, either, so that's good. I'm just afraid that he'll start losing weight again.

    Even when he was first diagnosed, he never had a reading of "Hi" before — in the past few days, he's gotten three. My curve today showed him drop down to 147, which is good, but he zoomed right back into the 400s after only four hours. I'm assuming he'll be "Hi" again when it's time for his shot. I really regret trying to bring his dose down by .25 U, but there's no way I could've known. 3.75 worked pretty well when I first tried it a few months ago. I didn't expect it to be completely ineffective this time.

    Also, his food looks really weird. I'm still giving him the Friskies Poultry Favorites, as I have been for the past few months, but it looks different. Did they change the formula or something?
     
  21. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Some of those extremes could be due to Vetsulin's action. It works strongly to pull down BG fairly quickly and that sets off a rebound to high numbers at PS.
     
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  22. Natalie and Ziggy

    Natalie and Ziggy Member

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    Apr 23, 2018
    Another “Hi” this morning! I am starting to think of switching to something like Lantus due to Vetsulin’s sharp curves.

    Also, I changed Ziggy’s test/shot schedule to be 20 minutes later than it has been, to coordinate better with my new schedule. I wonder if this has had any effect on his numbers? When he’s hungry, he works himself up into a frenzy and gets stressed out enough that it affects his BG.

    My main suspect is his food. There’s something weird about this pack of food I bought for him last week. Ever since he started on it, his BG has been out of control.
     
  23. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Is there anything else going on with Ziggy? How are his teeth?
     
  24. Natalie and Ziggy

    Natalie and Ziggy Member

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    Apr 23, 2018
    His teeth haven’t changed, and I haven’t noticed him pawing at them like he used to. Ever since I switched to feeding him out of a saucer rather than a bowl, he’s had no issues with his mouth.
     
  25. Natalie and Ziggy

    Natalie and Ziggy Member

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    Apr 23, 2018
    I’ve also started giving him Special Kitty dental treats — I couldn’t find anything on the carb count, though.
     
  26. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Aug 17, 2016
    Lantus might well help his numbers. I suggest you go read the yellow stickies at the top of the thread list on the Lantus forum to get a little more familiar with how it's used.
     
  27. Natalie and Ziggy

    Natalie and Ziggy Member

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    Apr 23, 2018
    Ziggy needs an insulin refill soon, so I think I’ll get him some more Vetsulin one more time. He has a vet appointment next month and I would like to bring up Lantus with the vet then. I’m still likely to switch over anyway, but I’d like to mention it to him first.

    Really hate these high numbers! I really do think it’s his food that’s causing them. Kind of like how that one pack of Friskies Seafood caused vomiting a few months ago, whereas all other packs of that same kind were perfectly fine.
     
  28. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    In the interim you can research where to get Lantus more cheaply. It's very expensive in the US ($300+ for a 10 mL vial). Many people in the US order it online (with a prescription from their own vet) from a reputable Canadian pharmacy, Marks Marine Pharmacy, in Vancouver for about half price. Some US pharmacies will sell a single pen cartridge (3 mL = 300 units of Lantus) and some FDMB members buy from the FDMB Supply Closet.
     
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  29. Natalie and Ziggy

    Natalie and Ziggy Member

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    Oh, shoot! I just did some research and found out that Ziggy’s new treats are high in carbs and cause BG to spike. No more Special Kitty dental treats for my special kitty.

    I have looked into Marks Marine and they look great! I will likely be going to them for my Lantus.
     
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  30. Beck

    Beck Member

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    Mar 6, 2018
    I ordered through Marks Marine and was really happy with the purchase. The shipping is pretty quick too since it has to stay chilled. It actually took longer for my vet to send the right papers.

    I'm not really sure if treats on their own will cause the huge spikes, but it can't hurt to find a healthier alternative. Unfortunately it seems the healthier the treat, the less likely my cats will actually like them. Chicken pieces and freeze dried chicken/fish can be a good carb free treat. But my cats became tired of those after the first few days. Hopefully you'll have better luck.
     
  31. Natalie and Ziggy

    Natalie and Ziggy Member

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    Apr 23, 2018
    Ziggy likes the dry-frozen chicken treats I bought him. They don’t seem to have had any effect on his numbers, which are still in the 600s at AM/PM shot time.

    Either his insulin isn’t effective anymore — I’m at the bottom of the vial and hoping the vet verifies the order before we run out — or his food is just no good. I swear, there’s a lot of gravy in it that’s not usually there!

    I’ve been taking weekly averages and tracking trend lines just to see how he’s doing overall, and thanks to this past week, his BG averages are now HIGHER than they were when he first moved down with me. I’m so frustrated and confused. I have no idea why his numbers are so high all of a sudden.
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2018
  32. Beck

    Beck Member

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    Oh geez, that is a lot of highs. If the Vetsulin was losing effectiveness, you'd think his lows wouldn't be as good as they are. It is really weird.

    Just checking, but do you maybe have a bad batch of tests strips? I think the batch I initially had was highly inaccurate(like pulling a 300 after a 400) for some reason, but the more recent ones I've been using have been pretty consistent.

    I stopped feeding my cats Friskies after one batch had some funny black flakes in it. It may have just been something burnt, but most of the cats were also turning their nose up at that batch. They mostly eat homemade food now, but understandably it can be pretty time consuming to make. Though I do honestly think it's helping to lower Pepper's numbers, even if just slightly. Maybe see if you can at least get a different batch or flavor of the Friskies? At least to rule that out as the issue.
     
  33. Natalie and Ziggy

    Natalie and Ziggy Member

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    I'm not sure about the test strips, although his nadirs have been consistent with how they've been in the past. I think they're reading things correctly.

    I just bought a whole new pack of Friskies for Ziggy, because I was sure that there was something wrong with the previous batch. There was just too much gravy. So I opened a new can from the new pack and...it's full to the top with gravy.

    So now I have no doubt that Friskies has changed their formula to include extra gravy with their Poultry Favorites pate, which I'm certain is why Ziggy's numbers have been so high. I may need to move him off of Friskies altogether and onto another brand.
     
  34. Natalie and Ziggy

    Natalie and Ziggy Member

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    So I've done a little research and I think I'll be switching Ziggy over to Fancy Feast Classic. A full can seems roughly equal to his current portion (3/4 a can of Friskies Pate per serving). I don't think the strips or the insulin are the problem, so we'll see if that makes a difference!
     
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  35. Natalie and Ziggy

    Natalie and Ziggy Member

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    Apr 23, 2018
    So many double (and triple) posts from me! The store had a Classic pate pack, which was perfect. I'm thinking he'll probably get two full 3 oz cans a day right now, but I'll have to stop using the automatic feeder. I'd run out of cat food too quickly and it'd end up costing me way too much to keep up. I hope Ziggy will understand!
     
  36. Natalie and Ziggy

    Natalie and Ziggy Member

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    Apr 23, 2018
    48 mg/dL at PM+5 for Ziggy! Scary numbers. I gave him some Special Kitty dry treats and some Gerber's chicken and gravy baby food to try to boost him a bit. Good thing PM+5 is his nighttime nadir. I administer those treats through the automatic feeder throughout the day/night.

    He absolutely loves his new Fancy Feast food, but not so much the smaller portions. I'm going to sneak an extra 1/4 can before bed time to help him out. I wish I could do more, but it would be a little too expensive for me right now to give him, say, three full cans a day.

    I was so relieved to see a PM test of ~250 mg/dL today after his first Fancy Feast meal in the morning. Looks like it really was the Friskies that was sending him off the rails.
     
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  37. Beck

    Beck Member

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    Mar 6, 2018
    48, is a bit scary. Maybe just ease up on his dose a little when he's sub 300?

    The 2 cans a day sounds fine as long as he's a healthy weight and an averaged sized cat. I wish I was that good at saying no to feeding my cats too much.
     
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  38. Natalie and Ziggy

    Natalie and Ziggy Member

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    Apr 23, 2018
    Yes, I will definitely reduce the dose when he’s a bit lower than usual.

    He was at another “Hi” this morning, presumably a huge bounce after his low nadir last night (also maybe still lingering in his two-week high-number period). Now that he hasn’t better food, I’m going to try reducing his dose a little bit so he stops dropping and spiking so drastically.
     
  39. Natalie and Ziggy

    Natalie and Ziggy Member

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    Apr 23, 2018
    Hi again! So it looks like the food isn’t the cause of his high numbers, either! I have no idea what I did wrong with Ziggy but it looks like I’ve just failed in general. He was doing so well and now it’s like he’s completely hopeless.

    Could it really be because I’ve pushed his testing and feeding/shot times back 20 minutes? That has to be it. Barring some medical condition I’m not aware of, there is nothing else that could be keeping him consistently above 500 at shot time.

    I was hoping to go into his vet appointment next month showing how well he’s been doing, but now all I’m going to get is recommendations against home testing and talk about euthanasia.
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2018
  40. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Hard to say. It's possible that his dental issues have worsened and are making BG control more difficult. How are his clinical signs - appetite, behaviour, energy level, grooming, etc.? If he looks and feels good there's NO reason for the vet to mention euthanasia.
     
  41. Natalie and Ziggy

    Natalie and Ziggy Member

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    That post was a bit negative of me, but I admit it feels good to vent.

    I haven't noticed Ziggy's teeth worsening, but what's strange is that he hasn't shown any signs of discomfort at all in the past couple of months. He used to paw at his mouth and lick his teeth with an obvious wince, but now there's none of that, and his eating habits are great. He chews his treats, which he didn't do before.

    Ziggy's appetite has really picked up lately, partly because the Fancy Feast portions are smaller, though he hadn't always been eating the food from the automatic feeder when he was on Friskies. He's still as friendly and playful as ever, and still likes to play with his toys and play-fight with me when I pet him. No litterbox issues, except for big plates of pee, and he's grooming very well. He used to be a shedding machine, but now it's almost the opposite! His fur is sleek and soft.

    I'm just worried about the vet because he seemed skeptical about me using a human meter and he had kind of a world-weary demeanor which made everything he said seem kind of discouraging. But he knows his stuff for sure and handled Ziggy so well last time I brought him.
     
  42. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Seems that Ziggy is doing well aside from erratic BG numbers. They don't always show distress if their teeth are bad but it can still affect BG control.
     
  43. Natalie and Ziggy

    Natalie and Ziggy Member

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    Ziggy had some awesome AM numbers and a really good mid-cycle number. He was in the upper 400s by PM, but that was likely because of his reduced dose. I brought his usual dose down to 3 starting with this latest PM shot.

    I think I'm going to experiment with giving Ziggy a 1/4 can of Friskies before bed. I think the Fancy Feast is good for him and he clearly enjoys it, but the portions aren't enough and he goes right back to begging after eating a full can. I can't afford to give him more than 2 cans a day, otherwise I'd end up tripling his monthly food budget. I drained and rinsed the food of gravy before serving, so hopefully it won't have a negative effect on his numbers.

    I think the issue for the past week or so *might* have been his insulin. As soon as I started on his new vial, he's had a handful of awesome numbers (some maybe too awesome :nailbiting:). Hopefully it's not the Friskies that's been giving him trouble.
     
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  44. Natalie and Ziggy

    Natalie and Ziggy Member

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    Apr 23, 2018
    Never mind, his numbers were extremely high this morning and it might have been the Friskies. I don’t want to change too many variables while experimenting with his dose, so I won’t be feeding him Friskies anymore for now.
     
  45. Chris & China

    Chris & China Well-Known Member

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    May 10, 2013
    Have you thought any about trying a different insulin? It looks like the Vetsulin is too harsh....dropping him too far, too fast and that just sets him up to bounce again and again.
     
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  46. Natalie and Ziggy

    Natalie and Ziggy Member

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    Apr 23, 2018
    Yes, I am considering switching him over to Lantus the next time he needs an insulin refill.

    I had to go on a trip out of state for a few days and left Ziggy in the care of my cousin (who is also my landlord and roommate). He did a great job with Ziggy! He did have to shoot an hour and 50 minutes early but called me to let me know in advance. I advised a reduced dose. Naturally, Ziggy bounced extra hard this morning.

    But I just took his PM test after he got a 3.25 dose this morning and he’s at 96!

    Maybe his reduced portions are affecting his BG but I am shocked at seeing this.
     
  47. Natalie and Ziggy

    Natalie and Ziggy Member

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2018
    So Ziggy had a vet visit on Thursday, and I really didn't learn much from the exam. It was just a simple checkup, but it lasted five minutes in the back room and I'm not sure they even did more than weigh him. The vet says he will definitely need dental work at some point and he needs to get off of Friskies ASAP (to be fair, his blood levels have been terrible for the past couple of months). His position is that a change in diet and dental work are both better to work on before I think about changing insulin. He was adamant that I start on prescription food, and they gave me six 3oz cans of Royal Canin Glycobalance wet food (gravy) as a sampler.

    He wasn't impressed with Ziggy's weight gain and change in behavior. The vet is very experienced and comes highly recommended, but he's a little mean, haha.

    The good news is that Ziggy is in love with the prescription food — the bad news is that even a full can isn't enough and he's been desperately hungry since I started on that, and I'm sure the stress is affecting his BG levels. I would feed him more, but it's $40 for 24 cans. Feeding him more than one can a day would result in me going broke. And sleep has been hard for me because he keeps me up by meowing in my face begging for food.

    As it stands, with my current bare-minimum budget for Ziggy, I end every month about $100 in the red, and I personally can't afford to eat more than lunch and a snack every day. I have to skip breakfast and dinner because the money just isn't there. He'll never get the dental work done, obviously.

    I'm wondering if there's a substitute food that would work just as well? Ziggy really needs big portions and while he loves this new food, keeping him full would just bankrupt me in short order.

    Or maybe his appetite will decrease once his BG starts to get lower on average? I still don't like the idea of giving him only 3oz a day, though, but that's all I can afford.
     
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2018
  48. Idjit's mom

    Idjit's mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2018
    Natalie, it's good to see you! Why does vet want Ziggy off Friskies? The Royal Canin Glycobalance is 14 carbs and vet wants you to feed a higher carb food? I hate to even suggest this, but do you think vet is selling you more expensive higher carb food to make more money?
    Re: the dental, can you apply for assistance from DCIN? Chris & China has affiliations with the organization, perhaps talk with her? We can't have you not eating and have Ziggy eating food that is too high in carbs and that you can't afford.
    I also think you should post in the Vetsulin forum and let the experienced members take a look at the spreadsheet. His numbers are too high and they might have some other recommendations.
    If your vet won't work with you, perhaps it's time to look around for another?
    :bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug:to you and Ziggy
     
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  49. Natalie and Ziggy

    Natalie and Ziggy Member

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2018
    Good to see you, too! I don't know why he wants Ziggy off Friskies, really, but it seems to be because he thinks it's cheap and not the best-quality food for a cat who needs a specific and controlled diet. And no, I actually agree with you about the vet wanting to make money. A coworker says he's an excellent vet and his credentials are great, but his clinic has a very commercialized feel to it. The online pharmacy is all about discounts and savings...it kind of rubs me the wrong way. I haven't been to enough vets to really know if this is standard or not. It's a shame because the other people there are so helpful and the clinic is five minute away from home.

    The vet also suggested the dry food variant of Royal Canin Glycobalance. When I said I was reticent about feeding dry food, he said that was understandable, but that this dry food is good for diabetic cats. I don't know...that kind of conflicts with everything I've been told. It's tough because I just want definitive answers and the vet is licensed, but I also trust everyone here!

    I'm more of a muncher than full-meal person, so I don't mind eating lots of snacks. :D

    I can look into DCIN! I've never really looked into it much but it sounds like it'd be helpful. The current vet Ziggy's seeing kind of rubs me the wrong way, but his expertise apparently lies in surgery and tough procedures, going by testimonials and my coworkers.

    You know, I might have to switch glucometers now that Relion Micro is going out of stock. I know that needs bigger blood samples, but I usually accidentally hit the vein anyway and get big droplets already (Ziggy doesn't mind at all). But the cost for strips for the new glucometer is much lower, so that could potentially free up some room in my budget for, say, Fancy Feast? He loves Fancy Feast and his numbers were a little better when he was on that.
     
  50. Olive & Paula

    Olive & Paula Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2015
    Nice to see you. To bad Ziggy is still having trouble. Try fancy feast pate, you can give some of that and some of the rx food so it spreads out the rx. 3oz a day just isn't enough for him. As he does get regulated the appetite will return to normal.
     
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  51. Idjit's mom

    Idjit's mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2018
    I am looking at the glucometer issue myself. But I think I will use the strips I have in stock for now, and see the reviews for the replacement, or maybe go to the Prime. My hubby uses the Confirm also, so I have to have a human meter. Girl, you need to take good care of yourself! And you have fought too hard for Ziggy, and he's still cute and kickin'. We want him much better though. I would take that Royal Canin back, get a refund if it has a guarantee. Just tell 'em he won't eat it. We came home from vet with Hill's MD, dry and wet. Nuts to that.
     
  52. Olive & Paula

    Olive & Paula Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2015
    ADW has arkray glucose 01 Sensor strips that fit the micro/ confirm meters. They still sell them. You have to order though.
     
  53. Idjit's mom

    Idjit's mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2018
    Just a side note, Natalie. Idjit eats Friskies and FF..he went OTJ in a couple of weeks. He's in great health, smooth silky fur and full of beans. It's not crap food.
     
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  54. Natalie and Ziggy

    Natalie and Ziggy Member

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2018
    Aw, I already told them that he loves it, so maybe I can't bring it back, haha. But it was only ten dollars for a six-can sampler, so that's okay. A special treat for Ziggy (he loves it so much)!

    And yes, he is still cute and adorable. He's feisty, too! He got into a scuffle with my landlord's girlfriend's dog the other night! He totally started it.

    [​IMG]

    It's too bad because while he loves his Friskies, his numbers have just been so bad for the past several weeks. I swear, they were fine until I moved his testy/feedy times forty minutes later, then they just went off the charts.
     

    Attached Files:

  55. Idjit's mom

    Idjit's mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2018
    yes, that's a consideration also. I called Walmart today and asked for a refund for the Confirm, they will send a $15 gift card to me. Natalie, you could do that too, and I think there is a brand sold by Walmart..Special Kitty that is low carb. It's less expensive and Ziggy could eat more and might feel more full.
     
  56. Idjit's mom

    Idjit's mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2018
    Very cute picture, that Ziggy just grabs my heart. I love his little round white socks. You can call Walmart 1-855-776-0662. They want the serial number from the back of the meter and they asked me when I got it.
     
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  57. Natalie and Ziggy

    Natalie and Ziggy Member

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2018
    I can look into Special Kitty (he gets Special Kitty dental treats right now, but they're dry and I'm not sure about the carb content...I still haven't found info about it). I will also look for that refund! Thank you for the info.

    I think I'll feed him some Friskies right now because he's just been going bonkers for food since supper.
     
  58. Natalie and Ziggy

    Natalie and Ziggy Member

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2018
    I never saw them as socks until you mentioned it! That's so adorable. I'm so glad he's still with me. He can be a hassle, but when he sits down near my face while I'm sleeping and wakes me up with his purring, it's all worth it. :)
     
  59. Idjit's mom

    Idjit's mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2018
    Good deal, now please post in the Vetsulin forum and ask them to look at Ziggy's numbers. Might not be tonight, but they may be able to make some suggestions. And, my dear, don't let it be so long between posts please. Cause now I'm going to worry. Please tag me so I don't miss the posts, ok?
     
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  60. Natalie and Ziggy

    Natalie and Ziggy Member

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2018
    @Idjit's mom I posted in the Vetsulin forum! I really should have done that a long time ago. And yes, I should be better about posting for sure.
     
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  61. Idjit's mom

    Idjit's mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2018
    I don't know why they call them dental treats. Idjit always used to just suck his Temptations down, no chewing involved. They are probably high in carbs, like most of those treats, and that doesn't help his BG.
     
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  62. Jeff D / Sketch

    Jeff D / Sketch Member

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2017
    For what its worth Sketch did very well on the Royal Canin Glycobalance...and he went nuts for it gaining about a pound. He was a high dose kitty on Lantus and for some reason Glycobalance despite being higher in carbs seemed to smooth out his curve and his bounces. You can get it through Chewy for 30.00 / for 24 on autoshiop so a both less expensive and shipping is free if you order 2 cases. He ate both the FF pate's and Glycobalance.
     
  63. Idjit's mom

    Idjit's mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2018
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  64. Idjit's mom

    Idjit's mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2018
    Natalie, I'm going to bed. It's way past old folks' bedtime and Idjit will be pestering me at his usual 6 AM (or earlier). You take care of yourself and Ziggy. I hope you find some answers and some relief from the worry and stress.
     
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  65. Jeff D / Sketch

    Jeff D / Sketch Member

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2017
    Also getting the dental work is critical. Sletch's BG dropped quite a bit after dental cleaning and extractions. Certainly the BG can be affected by dental issues...so please try for Ziggy's sake to get it done as soon as possible. DO also keep in mind that his dosage may need adjusting (dropped) after dental is done so make sure to test and see where he is and adjust accordingly!!!
     
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  66. Chris & China

    Chris & China Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 10, 2013
    Feel free to send me a PM and I'll help you get in touch with DCIN.

    I won't comment on what I think of your vet right now....I'm tired and all I can think of is my mom's advice that if I can't say something nice, don't say anything at all ;)
     
  67. Jeff D / Sketch

    Jeff D / Sketch Member

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2017
    Natalie with my pal Sketch passing away suddenly last week I have a Bayer Contour meter and some test strips I would happily send to you. I wish I had seen earlier that you were feeding Glycobalance as I had 3 cases I donated to another diabetic kitty. Contact /message me directly if you would like the BG meter and strips and I can arrange to ship them to you. Hope you and Ziggy have a good night.
     
  68. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2016
    Natalie, I gave my two cents' worth on the Vetsulin thread. :)
     

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