TUXIE 6/22 AMPS-137; +1.75 hr-144; +4-148; +8-130; PMPS-382; +5-290; +6.5-214

[Tuxedo Mom]

ALPHA TRAK 2 PET METER Reads higher than human meter

Yesterday:
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/...crease-now-high-and-flat.139777/#post-1442190

RECAP:

AMPS-295; +2-371; +4-358; +6-409;
PMPS-466; +6-277 +8-175

Tuxie seems to be doing a lot of dropping late in his evening cycle lately. His +8 was 175 and his AMPS was 137,( tested as 86 on FS Lite meter) so he dropped during the four hours in between. I am not sure I should have shot the full dose, since I don' t know how low he actually did drop. I know the numbers are not in a hypo range, but I can't seem to predict what Tuxie's responses will be right now. I have to go out for a few hours later but I will try to set it up so I am out when his cycle is not too active.

 

[Sienne and Gabby (GA)]

Many cats experience lower numbers at night. (It's why we encourage new members to get PM cycle tests.) Since your testing around nadir, I wouldn't worry. I also would discourage you from shooting different AM and PM doses. It tends to give you wonky numbers.

 

[Tuxedo Mom]

Many cats experience lower numbers at night. (It's why we encourage new members to get PM cycle tests.) Since your testing around nadir, I wouldn't worry. I also would discourage you from shooting different AM and PM doses. It tends to give you wonky numbers.

Thanks for the input. Tuxie always has higher AMPS numbers, that is why I was concerned about his PS number being lower than his +8 last night. I fed him at +8 as well. I don't shoot different doses with AM and PM, unless there is a reduction or increase called for. I am just trying to wrap my head around the changes with Tuxie, as he never has lower readings in the AM than the previous night. On the 20th he ended up with a lower PM +11 reading, when his nadir is usually around +8, so something is changing. Unfortunately I can't stay up all night to test since I don't get near enough sleep as it is.

 

[Marje and Gracie]

Mary Ann

Actually, I see two things going on with Tuxie. First, he's clearing bounces and quite often, numbers will drop from one PS all the way to the next so the lowest number might be around PS.

But the other thing is Tuxie is on levemir and lev cats nadir anywhere from +8 to +12 typically. My Gracie will even nadir at +14 or so if the dose is giving her huge duration. Anyone who shoots levemir absolutely must learn to shoot the lower PSs above 50. Even if it appears to be dropping because it may very well be if the kitty is nadiring at +12.

The other thing I need to ask you is if you know that every single time, the AT2 is even approximately 35% higher than a human meter? If it is, it would be extremely odd. There is no empirical evidence to support that, especially at higher numbers. Roomp and Rand even state in their 2013 TR pub that the difference is 30-40% at the low end of the range.

If you look at Gracie's SS on the tab where I compare my AT2 and Micro, you'll see that the numbers differ by a lot more than 35% in most cases....even at lower numbers. Perhaps you might consider removing that statement from your condo because it's misleading?

 

[Tuxedo Mom]

Mary Ann

Actually, I see two things going on with Tuxie. First, he's clearing bounces and quite often, numbers will drop from one PS all the way to the next so the lowest number might be around PS.

But the other thing is Tuxie is on levemir and lev cats nadir anywhere from +8 to +12 typically. My Gracie will even nadir at +14 or so if the dose is giving her huge duration. Anyone who shoots levemir absolutely must learn to shoot the lower PSs above 50. Even if it appears to be dropping because it may very well be if the kitty is nadiring at +12.

The other thing I need to ask you is if you know that every single time, the AT2 is even approximately 35% higher than a human meter? If it is, it would be extremely odd. There is no empirical evidence to support that, especially at higher numbers. Roomp and Rand even state in their 2013 TR pub that the difference is 30-40% at the low end of the range.

If you look at Gracie's SS on the tab where I compare my AT2 and Micro, you'll see that the numbers differ by a lot more than 35% in most cases....even at lower numbers. Perhaps you might consider removing that statement from your condo because it's misleading?

Thanks for your information. Tuxie's nadir up until recently has been between +6-+8. I would not be very comfortable shooting PS in the 50 range, on the AT meter. This morning his numbers have really not changed much in the 5 1/2 hours since his shot even with food at each testing, so I have no idea where he is going with this cycle. I did shoot his full dose this morning, but was concerned at where his numbers may have gone in the 4 hours between the last PM test and his AMPS, since the AM test was lower. His AMPS was actually 86 when I tested on the FS Lite meter.

Actually over the last 6 months I have probably done between 50-75 comparisons of the AT2 meter and the FS Lite meter from the same drop at different number ranges. The differences every time have been 30-40 % higher with the AT meter. I just use 35% as an average. This is only my finding using the AT2 and FS Lite as comparison models, so I will remove the number from my posting, but often people are giving advice based on human numbers which are not the same. Obviously different human meters can give different ranges of readings as well.

EDITED TO ADD: I am really more interested in the differences at lower numbers in order to be aware of when Tuxie is nearing a hypo number. According to the 2013 Roomp and Rand the 30-40% variance between a pet and human meter is to be used in the protocol which mainly addresses lower numbers regarding when dose changes should be made.

 

[Marje and Gracie]

Thanks for your information. Tuxie's nadir up until recently has been between +6-+8. I would not be very comfortable shooting PS in the 50 range, on the AT meter. This morning his numbers have really not changed much in the 5 1/2 hours since his shot even with food at each testing, so I have no idea where he is going with this cycle. I did shoot his full dose this morning, but was concerned at where his numbers may have gone in the 4 hours between the last PM test and his AMPS, since the AM test was lower. His AMPS was actually 86 when I tested on the FS Lite meter.

Actually over the last 6 months I have probably done between 50-75 comparisons of the AT2 meter and the FS Lite meter from the same drop at different number ranges. The differences every time have been 30-40 % higher with the AT meter. I just use 35% as an average. This is only my finding using the AT2 and FS Lite as comparison models, so I will remove the number from my posting, but often people are giving advice based on human numbers which are not the same. Obviously different human meters can give different ranges of readings as well.

EDITED TO ADD: I am really more interested in the differences at lower numbers in order to be aware of when Tuxie is nearing a hypo number. According to the 2013 Roomp and Rand the 30-40% variance between a pet and human meter is to be used in the protocol which mainly addresses lower numbers regarding when dose changes should be made.

Sorry...you are correct that you wouldn't shoot 50 on the AT....it would be 68. I hadn't had enough coffee yet.

There have been many comments over the years that the FS lite meters read low. I know you have been using FS lite strips in your AT and there was another discussion about that yesterday. It's an individual decision but IMHO it's not a safe practice and that's just based upon my knowledge of strip technology and experience.

Because of the variability in AT/human meter comparisons, I appreciate you dropping that statement. Experienced members who help you will not need to convert the AT numbers to a human equivalent. And you are correct that human meters vary as well.

It would be very helpful if you could add a tab on his SS with your comparison numbers as I have done with Gracie's SS. Possible? I'm sure it's a lot of work and if you don't want to, that's fine. But it is interesting information and I know Gracie's tab has been used a lot as a reference.

On your ETA comment: I understand and I made that observation in my post. While I don't use my AT2 all of the time, I often use it when Gracie is in lower numbers to help me decide when to reduce because I know the Micro reads low.

Thank you!

 

[Tuxedo Mom]

There have been many comments over the years that the FS lite meters read low. I know you have been using FS lite strips in your AT and there was another discussion about that yesterday. It's an individual decision but IMHO it's not a safe practice and that's just based upon my knowledge of strip technology and experience.

Again with using the FS lite strips I did many comparisons over time with AT strips/AT2 meter and FS Lite strips/AT2 meter one the same drop of blood and found the readings to be very close, usually within less than 10% variance. Again those were MY findings and if anyone wants to try the FS Lite strips I always suggest a good number of comparison tests, before being comfortable with doing so.

I have done a few postings over the last few months with some examples. Unfortunately I did not keep good records back 5 or 6 months ago when I was first doing comparisons with the FS Lite strips and FS Lite meter VS AT2 meter, since it was strictly for my own information at that time.

Here were some of MY numbers I had posted earlier comparing AT2 readings to FS Lite readings with the same blood drop. These were all done in the last month or so. Sorry I don't have more detailed notes, but these readings cover a good range of numbers:

Pet meter vs Human meter
AT2 12.8 FS Lite 8.3
AT2 13.8 FS Lite 9.7
AT2 23.1 FS Lite 15.2
AT2 14.9 FS Lite 10.9
AT2 8.2 FS Lite 5.3
AT2 21.4 FS Lite 15.9
AT2 19.9 FS Lite 14.2
AT2 27.2 FS Lite 18.6
AT2 17.2 FS Lite 10.7
AT2 6.1 FS Lite 4.3
AT2 3.6 FS Lite 2.4

I don't think I will comment about pet meter VS human meter or using FS Lite strips in AT2 meters anymore. I am comfortable with the results I got, but I can see where it could easily become an area of contention for some people, so I will keep this information to myself after this post.

 

[Marje and Gracie]

Thanks, Mary Ann, I appreciate your time in posting the info.

My last comment, before also exiting the conversations about using FS lite strips in the AT2, is copied over from a post I made on the above linked thread:

In almost five years on the board, I've seen just about every member in the L/L land forum (including me as a new member) ask "why is my cat's BG doing this?" with "this" being a variety of things from bouncing to diving to fizzling on a dose, etc. There are so many variables involved in FD...external changes (e.g. Weather) that affect the BG, absorption of shot, syringe inaccuracy, etc.

Why throw one more potential variable in the mix?