? UK newbie questions re feeding

Hi everyone,
My 13 year old sweet Josie just been diagnosed. I am finding it all very overwhelming at the moment to take all the info and instructions in but working my way through slowly with a notepad and lots of coffee to keep me alert!
I have loads of questions, the first few are:
What wet food pouches would you recommend to feed once started insulin injections?
Is dry food completely off the menu or a very small amount of high protein/low carb no grain 85%/15% is ok?
What treats are suitable and do i give her snacks as she keeps asking between her feeds.
Will try to post some photos of the food i have at the moment and thought was suitable for her, please feel free to veto any of them that's bad for her!
Thank you, your input is much appreciated,

 

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/...or-uk-newbie-from-anyone.176487/#post-1942210

 

At the moment mostly I'm giving her home cooked fish/chicken fillets, prawns or tinned tuna with some soup but as it has no added vitamins and minerals I'm concerned she is not getting a complete healthy meal..

 

Hi Monica! Well, lucky Josie certainly gets a good choice of foods doesn't she!
Basically, you want to look for a good quality wet food (ie in pouches, trays or tins) in JELLY as opposed to gravy (which may contain sugars and so affect the blood glucose). I'm not too familiar with the varieties you mention here but you can usually see at a glance on the label whether the food is in jelly or gravy.

Dry food should ideally be completely off the menu, yes, but it's not a bad idea to keep a little in the house in case Josie's BG starts to go unexpectedly low, in which case you can try to bring it up a little by feeding some high-carb dry. A hypo event when BG drops dangerously low is a different matter and you might need to read up on this and have an emergency kit ready just in case.

As far as treats go - again, for diabetics you are looking at low-carb options. Little pieces of chicken, fish, ham or cheese go down well, or you can buy freeze-dried chicken or tuna Thrive (and other brands) in most supermarkets which are popular and the next best thing.

Tagging @Elizabeth and Bertie who is our expert on food in the UK... she will have some more info to add as she spent a lot of time compiling a list of foods available in the UK that are suitable for diabetics.

Good first question by the way!!!

ETA I should have said... if you switch from a diet containing at least some higher-carb foods to a very low-carb diet, be extra vigilant with BG testing... some people find that their cats' BGs are significantly lower on a low-carb diet so you would want to be careful with the insulin dose to make sure you're not giving too much to keep your cat in safe numbers.


Diana

 

Correct that home cooked fish / chicken is not a balanced diet. Have to be careful giving too much fishy stuff as it can cause fatty liver and the canned / tinned tuna can create a tuna junkie. Most feed fancy feast classics (pate) and Friskies pate (non-indoor formulas), I think both are available in UK. One of your new UK buddies can verify . The two more "acceptable" dry foods are Young Again Zero (purchase online only, also not sure if they can ship international) and EVO Cat and kitten (purple bag).

This is the treat list on the forum: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/list-of-low-carb-healthy-treats.9172/

Many of us also do not feed the old-school thought of twice a day. As it tends not to work for unregulated kitties because their body cannot properly absorb nutrients so they feel starved. If you can't get an automatic pet feeder or be home to give food after morning or evening meals, some will even freeze portions of wet food so it is ready to eat in a few hours (depending on climate of course).
Keep asking questions

 

Thank you both!
We switched Josie's diet drastically 10 days ago but she was off of insulin so I might be right to think her body adjusted to new diet already before we started on the shots today?
Was hoping to get her food in the UK without having to ship specifically from overseas but will check out the foods mentioned above. Thank you

 

I think this treats list is mainly for US peeps. Here in the UK we tend to go for Thrive or Cosma freeze-dried treats, and there may be more... Eliz will know!

Oh and yes Monica you are right that Josie needs a "complete" food (with vitamins, minerals and taurine) as opposed to the supplementary foods which may be ok carb-wise but are not nutritionally complete.

 

You should be able to buy foods in the UK, Monica. Some supermarkets have a good variety, or there are websites such as www.bitiba.co.uk which are good for most things... hang on until @Elizabeth and Bertie looks in here and she will give you good advice.

 

Elizabeth made up a list of suitable UK foods which I will post the link here in case you haven't seen it yet:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1J5JpMe6TDXrHq_aTl9hUtHy6Gs9oRBqlz4nPGKxtySA/pubhtml

She also did a document on general food information:

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/...-including-link-to-low-carb-food-list.137376/

 

Monica

When you are ready for the evening shot, please makes sure Josie has had nothing to eat for at least 2 hours before you do the preshot test. This is to make sure that food is not affecting the reading. With Caninsulin you would test, and then feed about 20-30 minutes BEFORE giving the shot. This is to make sure that there is food on board and Joise is eating properly, before the insulin starts to act.

If you get an unusually low preshot reading, you can stall WITHOUT feeding and retest 20 minutes later to see if the readings are going up or staying the same. Anytime you are unsure if a reading is safe to give a shot you can post and ask for advice. Just edit your title and put something like "DOSE ADVICE NEEDED FOR SHOT" or something similar to that. You can edit the title on any post you have started yourself by going to the top of the page on the right hand side below the original title there will be "Thread Tools" If you hold your pointer over it, there will be option to "Edit Title" and you can do the changes.

 

Hi Tuxedo Mum,
unfortunately I just read your message and Josie was fed hours ago even before you posted.
We checked her blood sugar prior to feed and it was back up at 16.2.
We haven't done any more tests since.
I'm absolutely drained from all the stress, tears and arguments with DH over her treatment.
My aim is to sort out a different vet tomorrow, keep giving 1 unit and do a proper curve soon.
Both of Josie's ears are full of holes and dry blood spots as we have to try over and over again due to not getting enough blood at first time. I just couldn't carry on testing her anymore today.
Josie seems ok although keeps asking for food still after being fed..
The saga to be continued tomorrow.
Thank you for all your help today!

 

If it had been 2 hours since she ate before the preshot test, then that 16.2 should be accurate. As many others besides myself have said, using 1 unit would be the safest approach until you are able to get more data. It is safer to have some days with slightly higher readings than to risk a kitty having a serious hypo episode. which can be very serious or worse if it happens, as well as expensive to have an Emergency Vet deal with it. If at all possible try to get a test around +3 or +4 hours after the shot. This is the time that will tell if the numbers are starting to drop a lot or not.

This link has information and hints on home-testing. When I first started with my first FD kitty I was terrified of totally destroying his ears. Now 2 1/4 years later and well over 4000 pokes (he has other health issues and will never be in remission) his ears look just fine. The beginning time after getting the diagnosis of diabetes is a very, very trying and stressful time, but it does get better as you go along.

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/hometesting-links-and-tips.287/

You are doing a wonderful job for just starting and your dedication will be so helpful in getting Josie on a healthy path again.

 

I was told by a Vet that if the ear poke scabs over you can flick it off (not scratch or peel) and get blood again that way. I never had luck with it. Make sure you are firmly holding the ear, where you poked, after the test for as long as you can up to like 20-30 seconds. You can also use neosporin (I believe polysporin in UK), apply a thin layer on the ears to help heal more.

 

Will start doing the blood sugar test myself so no need to beg husband anymore to prick and squeeze whilst I'm holding her.. Will read up about polysporin thanks!

 

4000 holes oh blimey!!
I could cry just looking at the poor state of Josie's ears..
Thank for advice above. I'm pleased I went with 1 unit, I don't have to worry about OD-img her on the first day!
Will keep you all posted how things are going. Thanks again!

 

Being able to do injections and testing on your own is a huge advantage!

 

hi Monica,

not sure if there are any trials going on at the RVC that Josie may be suitable for. Angel had a trial where he got Prozinc and ended up in remission. He did become insulin dependent for a few weeks last year but is now completely diet controlled again. If you have a good vet, see if you can get her on Prozinc rather than caninsulin. Did you check the food list Eliz compiled? There is a question mark about the sheba fine flakes though.

My 4 (Angel and 3 non diabetics) have been on Smila and Bozita from zooplus website based in uk, also Angel has the Purina dm, cheaper through Animed Direct than from your vet or look for special offers on ebay. They seem to have gone off it lately though and at the moment are on the Felix agail but I'm going to try the Sainsburys and Hi Life as Diana said they're better quality.

re blood testing I just found something I wrote to someone else new. I remember so well how overwhelming it all seems at first.

"I didn't think I could do it either, I was so scared and overwhelmed. I'm not great at home testing even now sometimes takes me a few goes before I can get a sample, but it's more of an inconvenience to our cats and apparently doesn't hurt. What a lot of us do is warm the ears with an old (clean) sock filled with rice, I get Angel ready by warming the outer surface of his ear then when it's warm enough I 'sandwich' his ear between the sock and lancing device and make sure it's taut and then fingers crossed I get a blood sample."

I'm still not the best at home testing but once I knew it was more an inconvenience than pain I was a lot more confident.
C x

 

Thanks so much, you make some really good points here. Will talk to vet about Prozinc! Josie is bit fussy with posh food, after trying loads of different low carb she really likes Tesco's premium tuna flakes/shredded chicken variety. Have Royal Canin diabetic dry food which vet says ok but only giving very small amount as treat as she likes her biscuits.. We're still trying but feeling so much better about things.. thanks again

 

Hi Monica.
I just replied from the other thread and then saw this. You can probably get the Royal Canin dry cheaper online but I'd change to the purina DM wet. I tried Angel on the Ziwi peaks freeze dried but it makes him throw up for some reason, the others are fine with it. For treats the ones Diana mentioned are good, mine go crazy for them. I love your pic of Josie. x

 

Thank you! I ended up getting rid of all dry food and treats, only giving Josie Tesco's finest fish/poultry selection pouches which she loves. Suitable treats are not cheap so will try giving home cooked chicken breast cubes.. We'll see.

 

Hello lovely people, hope you're having a nice day!
i have another question please if you could advise.
I took all dry food away and giving Josie Tesco's Finest Fish flakes/shredded poultry selection pouches only. The vet says feed her 4 pouches a day between 7.30am-7.30pm?! So is that ok if she goes without food between 8pm-7.30am? I thought i would give her one of the pouches around 11pm when i go to bed instead of daytime as she keeps asking for food all the time. Is there are particular reason in general why I should not feed her for 12 hours overnight?
How often do you feed your kitties? Thank you!
Ps. Had curve done yesterday at vet and some other tests, I have to go to work shortly but will fill in spreadsheet this eve and Josie's details and test results as well..

 

Excellent! Dry food is just not good for kitties. How are Josie's BGs doing, Monica? If she is having a lower-carb diet her BG may be lower and reduce the need for as much insulin, so keep an eye.

 

Thank you! Please see update above, any advice would be much appreciated. Will upload curve later after work, Josie seem to be doing well thank you.

 

Hi Monica, I'm just off to work now too but briefly... I don't think it helps to withhold food. Diabetic cats are often very hungry whilst they are unregulated, so I'd give her a pouch for overnight.
Look forward to an update later!

 

The only time that food is restricted is for at least 2 hours before doing the preshot test so that the reading you get is not food influenced. Diabetic kitties that are not well regulated are not able to use all the nutrient value of their food properly and their bodies need more food. Also some kitties will develop an "acidic stomach" if they go long periods of time without food. Many of the members here will divide the daily food allotment into 4 meals and give some small low carb snacks as well...especially as a treat when doing glucose testing. You only need to worry about what calorie intake your kitty requires and making sure they have not eaten for at least 2 hours before preshot tests. With my 2 I have found that they are quite happy with food every 6 hours. Each kitty can be different and regular testing can show how much food is influencing the glucose levels.

Have you been able to get some tests done?

 

I do not see why you would need to withhold food overnight, like Tuxedo mom, Maury is allowed to eat / finish his meals all day until 2 hours prior to test time . He needs to gain a little weight back and the "snacks" help uhh soften? lol, his BG drops. Lessen may be a better word

 

Oh dear, I tried to set up and fill in spreadsheet with curves and spot checks but goodness me i just couldn't do it! Oh well at least I did my signature... small steps..
Vet says curves looking consistent so keeping her on 1 unit twice a day and will observe how is Josie going to get on wet food only. In the meantime I'm going to attempt to do as many home testing as I can to monitor her. Although must say she hates us doing the blood tests so as long as she's doing ok I don't want to bother her too much. We're just glad that Josie's taking the insulin shots a lot better than at the beginning and seems back to her happy self again. Things seem to be a lot calmer in our household these days and we're getting into some sort of a routine..
Thanks guys for helping me keeping it together when I was on the verge of freaking out, your support made such a big difference!

 

@Monica Lewis I can help get your SS up and give instructions to link it. Djamila made a video how to link the SS too. . Most important tests are AMPS and PMPS. Let me know if you want / need my help

 

Thank you. Will try to focus on amps and pmps Will give spreadsheet another go when I have more time and patience...!