Urgent Question

bambinaki

bambinaki

Member Since 2010
Hello-
Could you please take a look at Maxi's spread sheet and let me know if you think I should give him insulin?
I am having a very hard time with the stupid syringes and dosing, and I wasn't sure if I got his dose in him this morning. With his numbers scarily rising, I'm thinking I didn't get his morning dose in him.
Thank you
 
Never, ever give another shot of insulin mid cycle even if you think you did a fur shot. You have no way of knowing whether some insulin got in. Maxi may likely be bouncing from getting to lower numbers than he is used to. If I understand your SS, you shot 2 hour late? If yes, you will need to adjust your shot in the pm cycle, you can move up shot times by 1/2 hour once a day, or by 15 minutes each cycle to get back to your usual shot times. Anything beyond that, and it may act like a dose increase. Lantus likes consistency, so getting shots 12 hours apart is recommended.
 
Thanks, Christie.

I had heard that before but still thought with these high numbers, and each test getting higher- maybe he needed insulin.

I gave him his shot at the normal time; I tested him for the first time today 2 hours before his normal shot time. Wasn't sure how to enter that.

His normal shot time isn't for another 5 hours. What if his glucose keeps going up?
 
The higher numbers aren't fun to see, but he'll be fine. Thanks for clarifying, I couldn't quite tell what the note was in your +2. If you tested 2 hours before shot time, that would be your +10 from the cycle before. So your 184 should be entered as +10 in your pm cycle of 1-Feb. Then put 223 in your AMPS for today. Apart from the higher cycle, is there any reason you think you did a fur shot? Was there a smell of insulin on his fur? You can enter in FS, which stands for fur shot or PFS which stands for partial fur shot in your units of insulin column for the morning.

Take a deep breath, we all do fur shots now and again :bighug:. One of our members used to put a dollar into a jar for every furshot, then she'd buy herself something fun with her FS funds. :)

Maxi will get back on track.
 
Christie & Maverick said:
The higher numbers aren't fun to see, but he'll be fine. Thanks for clarifying, I couldn't quite tell what the note was in your +2. If you tested 2 hours before shot time, that would be your +10 from the cycle before. So your 184 should be entered as +10 in your pm cycle of 1-Feb. Then put 223 in your AMPS for today. Apart from the higher cycle, is there any reason you think you did a fur shot? Was there a smell of insulin on his fur? You can enter in FS, which stands for fur shot or PFS which stands for partial fur shot in your units of insulin column for the morning.

Take a deep breath, we all do fur shots now and again :bighug:. One of our members used to put a dollar into a jar for every furshot, then she'd buy herself something fun with her FS funds. :)

Maxi will get back on track.
Click to expand...


I think it might've been a FS because he moved and the dose is so tiny. It's so hard with 0.5 unit doses to even know if I've got it in the syringe. Is a 1/2 unit of insulin enough to smell in fur? Also, I don't know what smells like, and I can't find a clear answer to that question (what it smells like) online.
Thank you, Christie!
 
Last edited:
bambinaki said:
Hello-
Could you please take a look at Maxi's spread sheet and let me know if you think I should give him insulin?
I am having a very hard time with the stupid syringes and dosing, and I wasn't sure if I got his dose in him this morning. With his numbers scarily rising, I'm thinking I didn't get his morning dose in him.
Thank you
Click to expand...
Hi Karen,

His numbers are comparable to what you would see if you gave a furshot (what we call it when you miss the shot), but they are also in line with what it looks like when a kitty bounces.

If you think you may have given a furshot I have linked an article HERE about how to establish a good routine with injections which may help a little with this new routine, also here is a pic of some of the different sites you can give injections:
injsitesforcats1.jpg

I agree with Christie, never give another shot if you suspect you have a furshot, that is because you never know how much insulin may have gone in and you could risk an overdose. Lantus has a really distinct smell, after I give a shot I always smell Mowgli's fur to see if it all made it in.

Bounces are a response when kitty gets a lower BG level than they are used to, Maxi is now used to having really high BG values so when he experiences low BG numbers that aren't dangerous, his body may panic, thinking that it is experiencing a hypoglycaemia situation. In response to that his body may release stored glycogen from the liver to prevent the 'Hypo' situation.

In Maxi's case, it is possible that when he saw those blues this morning that his body responded with a bounce. As his body gets used to being in healthy ranges he should bounce less.
bambinaki said:
I had heard that before but still thought with these high numbers, and each test getting higher- maybe he needed insulin.
Click to expand...

I can see why you would think that, but Maxi really could just be bouncing, Lantus is a long acting depot style insulin, it is important to keep dosages on a 12hour schedule, even if his values are climbing, if you give him extra insulin he might end up dropping too far into a dangerous situation. I know it's stressful, but soon you will be seeing lower and lower BG results, it just takes a little time. We have a saying around here: better too high for a week than too low for a second.

bambinaki said:
I gave him his shot at the normal time; I tested him for the first time today 2 hours before his normal shot time. Wasn't sure how to enter that.
Click to expand...
For your first test time 2 hours before his normal shot time you would enter it into last night's dose row, it would be yesterday's PMPS +10. If you took a test 2 hours before giving insulin, it is still important to take another test before you give insulin, then enter that reading as AMPS, This is because his BG levels could still be dropping by the time you shoot the AMPS...you want to be sure that his BG levels are a safe value to shoot. If you gave his shot at the normal time, you just put it right in the U Column after AMPS.

bambinaki said:
His normal shot time isn't for another 5 hours. What if his glucose keeps going up?
Click to expand...

Don't worry about the BG going up for now, the Lantus depot is still building up in Maxi, when you give his insulin tonight his numbers will go down again :). Basically just stay on time with the insulin :)

You're doing great!
 
bambinaki said:
Maxi keeps going to his water bowl...
:(
Click to expand...
Don't be stressed! Maxi will go to the water bowl less and less as you get his BG levels under control! A few weeks down the road you're going to be so surprised how much you've learned and how far Maxi has come. Remember! he was only diagnosed less than a week ago, the most important thing is that you're testing him and treating him! Maxi will be looking amazing in no time :D
 
bambinaki said:
Is a 1/2 unit of insulin enough to smell in fur? Also, I don't know what smells like, and I can't find a clear answer to that question (what it smells like) online.
Thank you, Christie!
Click to expand...

Most of us think it smells like bandaids. I take out a little extra insulin than I need and squirt it out...even after washing my hands I still smell it. Yes, you'd smell it even with that small a dose. Moving while shooting is the worst! Those were most of my fur shots. Hang in there, your next shot is coming soon. You can shoot 1/2 hour early.
 
Amanda and Christie,
What do you think, given Maxi's numbers, of the 0.5 unit of Lantus? The vet said 1 unit twice daily (no discussion of home testing), but when I read about Start Low Go Slow, I decided to start at 0.5, but now I'm worried that I'm wasting time that he should be getting a full unit and the high glucose is hurting his body.
 
Karen, it is possible that the starting dose was too low, you don't have any dry food in the mix, correct? But you did get a 184 on this dose...sometimes it takes a bit of patience. We often say here that this is a marathon, not a sprint. I know that isn't much consolation, but you need to give the insulin time to work. Lantus isn't good at grabbing high numbers and bringing them down, it is a long acting insulin.

I'd give it a few more cycles since you had a furshot in the mix. Anytime we have a furshot, it disrupts the depot so you need to give it some extra cycles to re-stabilize. These higher numbers are part of the process, but they aren't awful compared to other SS I've seen, we all see them, some of us worse than others, I promise, he'll come back down.
 
AmandaE said:
Hi Karen,

His numbers are comparable to what you would see if you gave a furshot (what we call it when you miss the shot), but they are also in line with what it looks like when a kitty bounces.

If you think you may have given a furshot I have linked an article HERE about how to establish a good routine with injections which may help a little with this new routine, also here is a pic of some of the different sites you can give injections:
injsitesforcats1.jpg

I agree with Christie, never give another shot if you suspect you have a furshot, that is because you never know how much insulin may have gone in and you could risk an overdose. Lantus has a really distinct smell, after I give a shot I always smell Mowgli's fur to see if it all made it in.

Bounces are a response when kitty gets a lower BG level than they are used to, Maxi is now used to having really high BG values so when he experiences low BG numbers that aren't dangerous, his body may panic, thinking that it is experiencing a hypoglycaemia situation. In response to that his body may release stored glycogen from the liver to prevent the 'Hypo' situation.

In Maxi's case, it is possible that when he saw those blues this morning that his body responded with a bounce. As his body gets used to being in healthy ranges he should bounce less.


I can see why you would think that, but Maxi really could just be bouncing, Lantus is a long acting depot style insulin, it is important to keep dosages on a 12hour schedule, even if his values are climbing, if you give him extra insulin he might end up dropping too far into a dangerous situation. I know it's stressful, but soon you will be seeing lower and lower BG results, it just takes a little time. We have a saying around here: better too high for a week than too low for a second.


For your first test time 2 hours before his normal shot time you would enter it into last night's dose row, it would be yesterday's PMPS +10. If you took a test 2 hours before giving insulin, it is still important to take another test before you give insulin, then enter that reading as AMPS, This is because his BG levels could still be dropping by the time you shoot the AMPS...you want to be sure that his BG levels are a safe value to shoot. If you gave his shot at the normal time, you just put it right in the U Column after AMPS.



Don't worry about the BG going up for now, the Lantus depot is still building up in Maxi, when you give his insulin tonight his numbers will go down again :). Basically just stay on time with the insulin :)

You're doing great!
Click to expand...


How long does bouncing last?
 
Every cat is different but I believe it can last up to 6 cycles. Mowgli usually clears his bounces in 1-2 cycles I think his longest bounce was 4 cycles (2 days)
 
So, 1 cycle = 1 dose period = 12 hours for a cat who takes insulin twice a day/twice in 24 hours?

Maxi drank a lot last night and he just drank more now even though a lot of water was mixed into his food that he just ate. (I always put a lot of water into his food, since long before diabetes diagnosis.)

Thank you for your help, Amanda.
 
I was having a hard time with the ReliOn meter. Kept getting "error." So last night I bought an Accu-Chek Guide Me. That's ok, isn't it?
 
Hi there. A cycle is 12 hours , 2 cycles a day.

Yes , a bounce can last up to 6 cycles or 3 days. As Amanda said , every cat is different (ECID) and some clear them very quickly.
 
I just got another high number.

So if Maxi's numbers are still in the 300s through today and tomorrow morning, pre-shot, should I increase his insulin tomorrow morning? By how much?

I'm being driven crazy by not being able to see exactly how much insulin I'm giving him because of the dumb syringes. I've gotten 3 kinds of syringes; I was told each time they were right (1/2 unit marked). I'm waiting for some that I ordered online to arrive. But I worry that because of the minuscule amounts, I still won't be able to be sure.
Also, it looks like there's air in the syringe no matter how much I try to tap it out.
 
If you had a fur shot yesterday. Then the cycle count starts over with last night cycle for the depot to build.

Following SLGS, you will hold this dose for 7 days and then reevaluate how low the dose is taking him.

I assume that you started at 0.5 dose because you switched from dry food to canned?
 
Thanks, Bobbie.

I don't think it was a fur shot, but I'm not 100% sure. I thought it was because his numbers were so high.

He's been eating canned only since he's lived with me (11 years). But he switched to Purina ProPlan Early Stage kidney food last Oct. because of early kidney disease diagnosis. Upon diabetes diagnosis 1 week ago, he's off the kidney food and on Weruva, which he ate before kidney disease diagnosis, mostly chicken fricasee and paw lickin' chicken.

I started 0.5 per the Start Low method.
 
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