Urinary tract issues - need advice on food to feed

[Pugwinkle]

Hello! My name is Denise and I'm new here. I live in Ontario, Canada. I have been reading for days and doing a lot of research especially on Dr. Lisa Pierson's website catinfo.org. I have a number of questions for everyone here.

My cat Sammy (approx. 6 1/2 years old) just recently had a urinary blockage. He was at the vets overnight and they sent him home with the prescription diet Hill's c/d stress - both canned and dry. This food is outrageously expensive. If I were to feed him this and my other cat Sylvester on this food it would cost me approx. $350. a month. YIKES! I cannot afford to do that. So I am looking for alternatives. Before this urinary issue I have been feeding each cat 1/2 can of Friskies a day and the rest of the food they made up in dry food which I have come to learn is not a good idea for cats.

I have read that a lot of you feed your cat's Friskies without any urinary issues. It is very reasonably priced and I would like to continue to feed it. My plan would be to discontinue feeding the dry food (which was the Acana brand) and simply feed more of the wet food.

So my questions are:
1. Do you think it's a mistake for me to continue feeding him the Friskies brand (pate is what I've always been feeding) since he has had a urinary issue?

2. Are there other brands that I can get here in Ontario Canada that are reasonably priced and good for cats with urinary issues?

3. Does anyone here feed the raw diet that Dr. Lisa Pierson feeds her cats? If so, do your cats like it? Do you strictly feed that diet or do you feed both the raw and some other canned foods?

4) For those of you that live in Canada, where did you purchase your grinder? The one that Dr. Pierson recommends is not available here in Ontario.

I would very much appreciate hearing some suggestions.

Denise

 

[Chris & China (GA)]

Is Sammy diabetic?

1. Do you think it's a mistake for me to continue feeding him the Friskies brand (pate is what I've always been feeding) since he has had a urinary issue?

2. Are there other brands that I can get here in Ontario Canada that are reasonably priced and good for cats with urinary issues?

It's fine to continue feeding the Friskies as long as there's no Chronic Kidney Disease....it will help even more if you add extra water to the pate (make a gravy)...as much as Sammy will tolerate

3. Does anyone here feed the raw diet that Dr. Lisa Pierson feeds her cats? If so, do your cats like it? Do you strictly feed that diet or do you feed both the raw and some other canned foods?

There are lots of choices in raw now, other than Dr. Lisa's recipe (although it's one of the best since you control everything that goes into it)....I think you can get Natures Variety frozen raw, Primal raw and maybe RadCat in Canada, but I know there are a few others too. @Wendy&Neko might know others available in Canada

4) For those of you that live in Canada, where did you purchase your grinder? The one that Dr. Pierson recommends is not available here in Ontario.

Sorry...can't help you with this one since I'm in the US, but basically, any grinder that will handle bone (if you use a recipe that uses bone) should work. Check out reviews of any grinders you look at to see how others feel about them

 

[Pugwinkle]

Thanks for your response Chris. No, Sammy isn't diabetic but I noticed that you have members here that do not have diabetic cats and there seems to be a lot of very good info here regarding nutrition for cats. I hope it's okay that I became a member even though my cats are not diabetic. Neither of my cats have chronic kidney disease either.

I went out in search of raw foods this morning but after going to several pet stores in the area I found nothing for cats at all. Most of the stores did have raw for dogs.

I also noticed that the Whiskas brand seems to have fairly decent ingredients. Does anyone here feed Whiskas?

So you feel that I can continue to feed Sammy the Friskies? You don't feel this food would have caused his urinary blockage?

 

[Chris & China (GA)]

No.....I don't think the Friskies caused the blockage....much more likely the dry food and/or genetics were involved

The Whiska's are OK and reasonably priced too....they're just not included on Dr Lisa's list because their parent company refused to give her any of the information she needed to get the nutritional breakdown we use so much here (to make sure our diabetic cats are eating low carb foods)

Did they do any testing to see what kind of stones he had? Struvite and calcium oxalate are the most common but can require different treatments

 

[Meya14]

Did they tell you what kind of crystals caused the blockage? There are different issues involved depending on the type of crystals. The most common, struvite crystals, can occur when there is a low level of bacterial colonization of the bladder (not enough to be positive for UTI). Often, increasing water content is enough to flush these out. Sometimes if crystals are recurring, an empirical antibiotic might help in preventing another occurrence.

 

[Pugwinkle]

No, they didn't tell me which type of crystals caused the blockage. I am assuming struvite. When we did the xray before they unblocked him there were no stones showing up in the bladder. I have emailed my vet and asked for information on what actually caused the blockage and to get more info on the blood sample they took. I had hoped to hear back by now but hopefully before the end of the day she will get back to me. He was unable to urinate so they placed a catheter and she said the blockage was very close to the end of his penis. They flushed him out and he was peeing freely so they didn't have to reinsert the catheter. That's about the extent of what I know about what they had to do with him. He was kept overnight to ensure he was peeing okay, they gave him an injectable antibiotic and then they sent him home with the prescription food as well as valium which he gets twice a day and he was on Buprenorphine for pain but that's done now. He had another day or two with the valium.

 

[Wendy&Neko]

I have one diabetic, CKD kitty and one who had crystals. I try to feed them the same food. You want low carb, preferably low phosphorus wet or raw foods. Wellness makes some good choices, get the tall cans to save money. You can add glucosamine to help firm the bladder walls. Cartrophen can also help, that is an injection from the vet.

I serve mostly raw food with plenty of water added. Crystal kitty started on CD too, way too expensive! Carnivora makes a raw you should be able to get in Ontario. Red Dog Blue Cat is made in BC near me, but sells in Ontario. Most of the websites have store locators. Another option is to use a premix. I also use the TC Feline premix, made in Salt Spring Island, also near by and add it to raw ground. Some of the dog food only manufacturers also sell a meat only option with organs, that you can add premix too. I have an exotic meat butcher near me where I can get organic, non medicated meats. And it's cheaper than canned.

 

[Critter Mom]

I hope it's okay that I became a member even though my cats are not diabetic.

Absolutely it's OK!

I found FDMB when my little one, Saoirse, was diagnosed with diabetes but, like you, I also place tremendous value on the wealth of general cat health information members share here. I've learned about far more than just feline diabetes since I joined.

Welcome aboard, Denise!


Mogs
.

 

[Wendy&Neko]

One more thought for you, it can the more nervous kitties that get crystals. Instead of drugs/valium, another option is to put Feliway diffusers in the part of the house he hangs out in.

 

[Critter Mom]

You could try monitoring Sammy's urine pH regularly, Denise. It would help you to know how the food he's eating is affecting the urine pH and it might guide you to suitable food choices.


Mogs
.

 

[Pugwinkle]

I have one diabetic, CKD kitty and one who had crystals. I try to feed them the same food. You want low carb, preferably low phosphorus wet or raw foods. Wellness makes some good choices, get the tall cans to save money. You can add glucosamine to help firm the bladder walls. Cartrophen can also help, that is an injection from the vet.

I serve mostly raw food with plenty of water added. Crystal kitty started on CD too, way too expensive! Carnivora makes a raw you should be able to get in Ontario. Red Dog Blue Cat is made in BC near me, but sells in Ontario. Most of the websites have store locators. Another option is to use a premix. I also use the TC Feline premix, made in Salt Spring Island, also near by and add it to raw ground. Some of the dog food only manufacturers also sell a meat only option with organs, that you can add premix too. I have an exotic meat butcher near me where I can get organic, non medicated meats. And it's cheaper than canned.

Thanks for the info Wendy. I am interested in that premix you mentioned so I went to the website. I have a couple of questions. Which of the premixes do you use? What is the shelf life of the powder and how do you store it? When making chicken cat food with the premix, if I wanted to grind my own chicken would I use the skin and the meat or just the meat? Can I simply purchase meat from the grocer or do I have to buy the more expensive meat from a butcher shop?

 

[Pugwinkle]

You could try monitoring Sammy's urine pH regularly, Denise. It would help you to know how the food he's eating is affecting the urine pH and it might guide you to suitable food choices.


Mogs
.

Hi Mogs! Thanks for the welcome post. I'm not even sure how to test Sammy's urine? Are there test strips I can get? I doubt that Sammy would let me place something under him when he is using the cat box but I suppose it would be worth a try.

 

[Wendy&Neko]

I use the TC Feline Special formula for my diabetic girl, cause she also is early stages of kidney disease (CKD) and I want to feed her lower phosphorus foods. They have a number of other options, depending on whether you can source the organs (liver) or not. You can also buy sample packs that allow you to make enough for 8 days of food, and try it out.

The premix formulas are to be kept in a cool/dry place. The Special premix comes in individual plastic pouches, just like the picture here. I just have samples of some of the other premixes (crystal guy also has IBD now so I'm going slowly on trying new things), and the single sample pack has an expiry date of August this year.

As for what mean you use, that's a question you have to decide. I prefer meat without hormones, but it does come at a higher cost. I can buy meat without hormones at my regular supermarket. It doesn't have to be just chicken. Neko's current menu includes some elk, which I bought at the raw pet food store. I bought buffalo at the exotic meat butcher, chicken from the grocer. I've seen differing comments on skin or no for chicken. You don't want too much fat.

 

[Pugwinkle]

I use the TC Feline Special formula for my diabetic girl, cause she also is early stages of kidney disease (CKD) and I want to feed her lower phosphorus foods. They have a number of other options, depending on whether you can source the organs (liver) or not. You can also buy sample packs that allow you to make enough for 8 days of food, and try it out.

The premix formulas are to be kept in a cool/dry place. The Special premix comes in individual plastic pouches, just like the picture here. I just have samples of some of the other premixes (crystal guy also has IBD now so I'm going slowly on trying new things), and the single sample pack has an expiry date of August this year.

As for what mean you use, that's a question you have to decide. I prefer meat without hormones, but it does come at a higher cost. I can buy meat without hormones at my regular supermarket. It doesn't have to be just chicken. Neko's current menu includes some elk, which I bought at the raw pet food store. I bought buffalo at the exotic meat butcher, chicken from the grocer. I've seen differing comments on skin or no for chicken. You don't want too much fat.

Thanks again Wendy!
Do you think I should try the lower phosphorus due to Sammy's issue with his urinary tract or will the other mixes be fine for him? I suppose that I will try to get meat without hormones but I imagine even if I used the regular supermarket meat it would likely still be a step up from many of the canned foods. I doubt that the canned food manufacturers are using meat without antibiotics or hormones. I could be wrong though. Do your cats like the premix?

 

[Critter Mom]

Hi Denise,

Hi Mogs! Thanks for the welcome post. I'm not even sure how to test Sammy's urine? Are there test strips I can get? I doubt that Sammy would let me place something under him when he is using the cat box but I suppose it would be worth a try.

You can get human urinalysis strips from a pharmacy. I use Multistix 10SG strips but there are other brands.

To collect a urine sample from Saoirse I put a large bin liner over the litter in her tray and I put some non-absorbent litter beads into the liner, e.g. Katkor or Catrine (not sure which brands are available where you are). The bag of litter beads comes with a little pipette and plastic test tube for easy urine collection. (Not cheap - shop around online and buy multiple packs.) I find it helps to make a little 'well' in the spot where she pees most frequently; that way she doesn't get soggy paws and it's easier to collect the urine.

Assuming Sammy will co-operate, I'd suggest feeding him exclusively on the food you want to evaluate for several days - maybe even a week. That way the effect it has on pH would have more time to manifest itself in Sammy's system.

Struvite uroliths are more likely to form in alkaline urine so a lot of so-called urinary protection diets acidify the urine in an attempt to dissolve struvite. However, they may acidify the urine too much in which case the cat is at greater risk of developing calcium oxalate uroliths. These cannot be treated with dietary modification and may require surgical removal.

Check ingredients in foods and watch out for vitamin C. Cats can synthesise this vitamin in their bodies so there should be no need to supplement it. Vitamin C supplementation may increase risk of oxalate urolith formation.

Urine with high specific gravity is more concentrated and therefore there is a greater chance of urolith formation, since crystals are more likely to precipitate out of solution.

Here are some useful links for you:

Feline Urinary Tract Health (from catinfo.org)

Urolithiasis in Small Animals (from Merck Veterinary Manual)

Urinalysis (from Merck Veterinary Manual)

Urolithiasis-Calcium Oxalate in Cats (from petplace.com)

Feline Bladder Stones (from a vet's website)

It might also be a good idea for you to visit the well-researched, well-respected Tanya's Site. The main focus of the site is on chronic kidney disease but there is all manner of information on a wide variety of cat health issues. Given the site's focus on all things renal you may find valuable information and tips there to help you keep Sammy healthy.

FWIW, a number of years ago Saoirse developed calcium oxalate uroliths after being on a commercial dry diet with 'urinary protection' and had to have them surgically removed. Initially she was prescribed Royal Canin Urinary s/o dry food by her vet at the time (and that led to all the woes she has now, including chronic pancreatitis). Since Saoirse was diagnosed diabetic I moved both herself and my civvie (non-diabetic) onto a low-carb commercial food and I add some water to their meals. Thus far, ultrasounds picked up three small bladder stones last year but they were small enough to be wee'd out according to the radiographer. She is doing OK on her current diet (anti-jinx, anti-jinx). Obviously extra caution is needed with male kitties.



Mogs
.

 

[Pugwinkle]

Hi Denise,



You can get human urinalysis strips from a pharmacy. I use Multistix 10SG strips but there are other brands.

To collect a urine sample from Saoirse I put a large bin liner over the litter in her tray and I put some non-absorbent litter beads into the liner, e.g. Katkor or Catrine (not sure which brands are available where you are). The bag of litter beads comes with a little pipette and plastic test tube for easy urine collection. (Not cheap - shop around online and buy multiple packs.) I find it helps to make a little 'well' in the spot where she pees most frequently; that way she doesn't get soggy paws and it's easier to collect the urine.

Assuming Sammy will co-operate, I'd suggest feeding him exclusively on the food you want to evaluate for several days - maybe even a week. That way the effect it has on pH would have more time to manifest itself in Sammy's system.

Struvite uroliths are more likely to form in alkaline urine so a lot of so-called urinary protection diets acidify the urine in an attempt to dissolve struvite. However, they may acidify the urine too much in which case the cat is at greater risk of developing calcium oxalate uroliths. These cannot be treated with dietary modification and may require surgical removal.

Check ingredients in foods and watch out for vitamin C. Cats can synthesise this vitamin in their bodies so there should be no need to supplement it. Vitamin C supplementation may increase risk of oxalate urolith formation.

Urine with high specific gravity is more concentrated and therefore there is a greater chance of urolith formation, since crystals are more likely to precipitate out of solution.

Here are some useful links for you:

Feline Urinary Tract Health (from catinfo.org)

Urolithiasis in Small Animals (from Merck Veterinary Manual)

Urinalysis (from Merck Veterinary Manual)

Urolithiasis-Calcium Oxalate in Cats (from petplace.com)

Feline Bladder Stones (from a vet's website)

It might also be a good idea for you to visit the well-researched, well-respected Tanya's Site. The main focus of the site is on chronic kidney disease but there is all manner of information on a wide variety of cat health issues. Given the site's focus on all things renal you may find valuable information and tips there relthere to help you keep Sammy healthy.

FWIW, a number of years ago Saoirse developed calcium oxalate uroliths after being on a commercial dry diet with 'urinary protection' and had to have them surgically removed. Initially she was prescribed Royal Canin Urinary s/o dry food by her vet at the time (and that led to all the woes she has now, including chronic pancreatitis). Since Saoirse was diagnosed diabetic I moved both herself and my civvie (non-diabetic) onto a low-carb commercial food and I add some water to their meals. Thus far, ultrasounds picked up three small bladder stones last year but they were small enough to be wee'd out according to the radiographer. She is doing OK on her current diet (anti-jinx, anti-jinx). Obviously extra caution is needed with male kitties.



Mogs
.

Thanks for the info and the links Mogs. What are you feeding your cats?

 

[Critter Mom]

Sheba Fine Flakes in Jelly - Poultry Selection.

There's no nutrition data on the Sheba website. Here's a link to a UK supermarket website with the nutrition data. (Not sure if you'll be able to see the site where you are.)

http://www.sainsburys.co.uk/shop/gb/groceries/sheba-essence-select-menus-in-jelly-12x85g

.