Vomiting Tiger-Lamb

Discussion in 'Feline Health - (The Main Forum)' started by Mandy Mansfield, Dec 17, 2017.

  1. Mandy Mansfield

    Mandy Mansfield Member

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    Sep 23, 2017
    My Tiger-Lamb has vomited several times this morning, mainly froth, but the first one was kibble that he'd just stolen (hubby forgot to shut the kitten room door). He hasn't really eaten any breakfast, so I am presuming I shouldn't give him his shot this morning? He was 313 pre shot.
     
  2. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Aug 17, 2016
    No food = no insulin. Keep a close eye on him because vomiting and not eating can lead to complications in a diabetic kitty. What insulin and what dose is he getting?
     
    Noah & me (GA) likes this.
  3. Mandy Mansfield

    Mandy Mansfield Member

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    Sep 23, 2017
    ProZinc and I've just (yesterday) upped him to 3.5. I don't know how to add his spreadsheet, it's on here somewhere. His numbers have been flat 300+ for a while, I'm trying to find a dose that will lower them. Diagnosed in March.
     
  4. Noah & me (GA)

    Noah & me (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Dec 3, 2016
    The most basic and absolutely infuriating rule there is. No matter how bad the vomiting looks you'll have a much healthier cat if you stick to this rule. It's 10AM Eastern here, how far off his schedule is he? Has he had tummy/GI issues in the past or is he just having a bad day? We sometimes forget all the crap in the air eventually settles to floor level, right onto Tiger-Lamb's dish. Hair, bugs etc. Poor kitty.
    If you decide to skip the AM shot entirely do a few tests to see just how high he gets. Keep an eye on what's in the vomit re yesterday's food, specks of blood.
     
  5. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Aug 17, 2016
    People can help you get your spreadsheet up so we can see it:
    @Chris & China
    @Marje and Gracie
    Have you read the yellow info stickies on the ProZinc forum or posted there for help?
     
  6. Mandy Mansfield

    Mandy Mansfield Member

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    Sep 23, 2017
    I'm on Eastern time too - his shot times are 9/9. He did vomit once yesterday, again just froth, but that didn't affect his appetite. He's on my lap right now, which is not like him. I'll check his levels several times today, I'm hoping it's just a hairball. Thanks for replying so quickly!
     
  7. Mandy Mansfield

    Mandy Mansfield Member

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    Sep 23, 2017
    I have a spreadsheet, and uploaded it one time. I haven't posted in the ProZinc group this time, I thought it was a general enough question that someone would know and help! I have read through thenProZinc stuff, we were doing fairly well for a while adjusting the dose slightly based on his numbers, but then it went haywire and he's been high since October.
     
    Allyson & Cubby likes this.
  8. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Aug 17, 2016
    If you set up a signature (the light grey text you see under our posts) you can copy the URL of your SS into that and we'll be able to click on it, provided you've enabled the "share" function (blue box on the SS). To set up your signature click on your name at the top right of this post page, then click on "signature" in the menu. A text box will open where you can type in info similar to what you see in my or other signatures. We like to see this background info when we answer a post.
     
  9. Mandy Mansfield

    Mandy Mansfield Member

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    Sep 23, 2017
    I think I did it.. maybe.. how do I make it appear here?
     
  10. Sharon14

    Sharon14 Well-Known Member

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    Aug 16, 2015
    There is some discussion on whether or not Insulin should be given if kitty isn’t eating. HERES one. I’m not sure where I stand on that since it’s one problem I’ve never encountered, just wanted to throw it out there. If you’re not giving insulin, please be sure to check for ketones.
     
    Critter Mom likes this.
  11. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Aug 17, 2016
    Yes, the link here works when I click on it. Based on a quick scan of your SS:
    • the dose was higher overall when he was giving fairly frequent blues and dark greens
    • there have been many doses changes and some of the jumps have been as large as 3 u from AM to PM. This can contribute to erratic BG levels
    • the recent higher numbers could be related to lower average insulin dose or related to another health issue: UTI? dental? pancreatitis? (vomiting, not eating)
    The immediate issue is lack of appetite/vomiting. I'd test* urine ketones ASAP. You can buy the strips at any human pharmacy. If this behaviour continues I'd call for a vet appointment tomorrow.

    If you have some time today, read over the ProZinc info stickies to learn more about dosing. Consistent doses AM and PM are generally best until you have you kitty in decent numbers. Then small dose tweaks of no more than 0.25 u up or down in response to AM/PMPS can help to refine things.

    *Here's how to test urine ketones:
    • put the end of the test strip right in his urine stream as he's peeing
    • slip a shallow, long handled spoon under his backside to catch a little pee - you don't need much
    • put a double layer of plastic wrap over his favourite part of the litter box and poke some depressions in it too catch pee.
    Most test strips have to be dipped and allowed to develop for 15 seconds before viewing the colour change in very good light.
     
    Sharon14 likes this.
  12. Noah & me (GA)

    Noah & me (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Dec 3, 2016
    Good point. Thanks Sharon. I'll never know why this gets some people into a twist.
    Cats are definitely not little humans.
     
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  13. Mandy Mansfield

    Mandy Mansfield Member

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    Sep 23, 2017
    Thanks, I will get some test strips today. I was advised to go low and start gradually raising his levels, which is why he's been getting low amounts recently. So far he doesn't seem to be responding at all, but we've just gone up to 3.5u. He was doing pretty well until I had to go away overnight, and miss two shots. Since then he's been all over the place, which is why I asked for ideas, and started back low. It's like the insulin isn't working at all now.
     
  14. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Aug 17, 2016
    I think that careful dose increases as per the ProZinc guidelines will get him moving forward. If they sit in high numbers for any length of time it can make it harder to pull them down. The high BG can create what's called "glucose toxicity". Basically the body cells, bathed in excess glucose, become less responsive to the insulin. The way through that is a series of careful dose increases of no more than 0.25 u at a time both AM and PM (same total dose) until blues, then dark greens begin to appear. At that point you slow the rate of dose increase.
     
  15. Mandy Mansfield

    Mandy Mansfield Member

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    Sep 23, 2017
    That makes sense. He's at 411 now, so must've eaten some breakfast. Hasn't thrown up any more, wish he would and get rid of the hairball. He is a dramatic vomiter; much noise and running backwards.. he has diarrhea now too. Poor boy. Hasn't eaten anything he shouldn't (except for the brief amount of kitten kibble this morning), and has been acting fine until now. If he doesn't pick up I will take him in tomorrow, and get him checked out. Thanks for helping me stay calm!
     
    Kris & Teasel likes this.
  16. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    Jun 16, 2014
    Bearing in mind that Christmas is imminent I think a check-up tomorrow would be a very good idea, especially as diarrhoea's now appeared. Maybe as a precaution ask the vet to run a Spec fPL test to check for any signs of possible pancreatitis. Just in case you might need some info, here is a very helpful guide to treatment:

    IDEXX Laboratories Feline Pancreatitis Treatment Guidelines

    Have you changed Tiger-Lamb's feeding frequency lately? Foamy, watery vomitus is often the result of a build-up of stomach acid caused by the cat going too long between feeds.

    Hope your boy feels better very soon.


    Mogs
    .
     
  17. Mandy Mansfield

    Mandy Mansfield Member

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    Sep 23, 2017
    No change to routine or food, he has actually been getting extra at bedtime because he started waking me up at 5am. He ate fine last night, no more vomiting or diarrhea seen. Had breakfast this morning, had his shot. Numbers did not go down, they actually went up a bit, and now he won't eat again. I'm taking him in tomorrow, he has some eye discharge and has a temp of 102.8'. I know that's not terrible, but it's higher than it should be. I haven't been able to get urine strips - I've had a terrible double ear infection and haven't been able to walk straight, never mind drive. Don't care if I'm dying tomorrow, he's going in. This is not like him, he is a pig normally.
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2017
  18. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    Jun 16, 2014
    If your vet offers the in-house IDEXX SNAP fPL test you could get an on-the-spot Yes/No result for signs of pancreatic inflammation. (The Spec fPL needs to be sent to an external lab.)

    Be sure to get the vet to check for any signs of infection - including an exam of Tiger-Lamb's teeth and gums. Please post an update after the vet visit so that we can all follow any developments.

    Glad to hear that the vomiting and diarrhoea have subsided. Long may things stay that way!


    Mogs
    .
     
  19. Mandy Mansfield

    Mandy Mansfield Member

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    Sep 23, 2017
    Thanks! He has no teeth, his mouth looks fine, no redness or ulcers. I'll print off a new spreadsheet and take that with me. I'll update when I get back and have some details. Thanks for answering quickly. Should I give him any insulin? He's high numbers right now, but hasn't eaten anything since breakfast.
     
  20. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    Jun 16, 2014
    I'm not experienced with Prozinc insulin, Mandy. With poor appetite, a high PS BG reading and - potentially - infection or other problem brewing I suggest you start a new thread on this board asking for immediate help with tonight's Prozinc dose. Also try posting on the Prozinc support group's board. I think it would be safer to give him some insulin because with his current clinical signs he may be a little more at risk of producing ketones but I'd have no idea about what dose might be OK. Be sure to test his urine daily for ketones for the foreseeable future. We don't want to see DKA getting into the mix.

    Sorry I can't give more help.


    Mogs
    .
     
  21. Mandy Mansfield

    Mandy Mansfield Member

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    Sep 23, 2017
    That's fine - thank you!
     
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  22. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    Jun 16, 2014
    When posting the new thread be sure to advise about high temperature, finnicky appetite, vomiting, diarrhoea, etc.
     

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