Wes & Purlonius Need Help

Hello Lantus Group,

My name is Wes, my wife Jenny and I have had the pleasure of having Purlonius (play on Shakesphere) be one of our three companions for the last 6 years or so, time flys... She is the sweetest cat I have ever known.

When we first brought Purlonius home from the shelter, she seemed fine. About a month after bringing her home we noticed that she was drinking too much water, and had started peeing on everything. We knew something was wrong, and made a vet appointment immediately. Purlonius was diagnosed, and our local doctor prescribed Humulin-U and Purina DM for her diet.

FFWD - Humulin U is no longer available. We switch to Vetsulin and had fairly good success with it mid last year, when it seemed like our cat became unstable. After some reading seems like it was probably the insulin that was causing her problem.

Our local vet that prescribes the vetsulin just informed us that it is no longer available, and recomended we switch to prozinc insulin which is $120 per vial which seems like a huge jump from the $38 per vial that we were paying for the Vetsulin.

We are not good about taking measurments everyday. We usually only really check her BG if she starts to look or act funny. It's easy to tell if something is up once you know what you are looking for in terms of behavior. That is not ideal I know, but we do our best to keep her healthy.

I have read alot of people talking about putting their diabetic cats onto wet food, but the reading that I have done is a bit overwelming. I don't give that much thought into what I am eating...LOL Anyone have some real world prtical advice you are willing to share? what I am looking for is what brands and where to get them. Please feel free to PM me with this information is you don't want to post it on a public forum.

I've also read quite a bit on here about cats going into remission, and I was wondering if anyone has had a long term diabetic cat come OTJ after years of insuling injections? I'm guessing that the answer is no, but just curious. Purlonius was diagnosed within the first 4 months of her life, and I am not sure if there is much destinction between cats who develop this conditon as a kitten Vs Cats that develop this condtion from being overweight or other causes later in the life cycle.

Rant ON-
Just when I think that we get her condition under control, it seems like the rug get'spulled out from underneath us again. I am totally overwhlemed a this point. I feel like the financial commitment to keep her going is skyrocketing, and reading all of these post about filling out spreadsheets, taking BG readings mutiple times daily is just adding to my concerns. AHHHHHHHHHH Rant Off- Sorry about that tirade....

Anyone in a similar situation? I really could use some help here. I want to keep my sweet little cat alive and well, this is just getting too complicated and expensive.

 

Welcome to Lantus Land! I'm relatively new so can only answer a few of your questions, but I'll try.

Food: Low carb wet food is really important for diabetic cats!!!!!!!!! Mainly we try to feed canned food below 10% carbs. Here is a link to Janet & Binky's List Janet and a number of the peeps here put in a lot of effort to get the pet food companies to supply the carb and other useful info on their products. This is a link to Dr. Lisa Pierson's PageRead the Nutrition page (actually all of them are great), it is invaluable. Basically on any number of levels dry food is bad for cats and many of the "prescription" diets are of worse quality than some inexpensive ones like Friskies.

Both Levemir and Lantus are excellent insulins for cats. They are gentle long lasting insulins. Lantus is about $200, but you get 5 cartridges, each of which lasts at least a month. I really don't know much about Pro zinc.

There are a lot of permanent posts at the top of the Lantus site page. Read through them. I know it's a lot to take in, but starting to read now is a head start. Others will be along with more detailed advice, probably in the morning as many are on the east coast, or elsewhere in the world.

Relax , you are among friends.

 

hello and welcome!
many of us feed wellness turkey or chicken. here's the link to a store locator: http://www.wellnesspetfood.com/store-locator.aspx. other's feed homemade or commercial raw foods. here's a link to Fancy Feast low carb, gluten free foods: http://www.felinediabetes.com/glutenfree.htm.
ann already supplied the links to janet & binky's food charts as well as the link to dr. lisa's site.

with lantus (and levemir), dose adjustments are made according to nadirs with only some consideration given to preshot numbers. once you get a handle on knowing how your kitty responds to a particular dose, you really don't have to test quite as much... unless you're like me... a confirmed test-a-holic. :mrgreen:

many have found that if handled properly, lantus can be used for up to 6 months once it's been opened. you just never know for sure how long it will last. my first vial of lantus lasted a couple of months before i saw floaties in it. my first lev cartridge lasted only 34 days. i'm on day 67 of my current levemir cartridge and it's going strong. the "stickies" at the top of the page describe proper handling as well as other pertinent info concerning lantus.

we have had some lantus kitties go off the juice who had been on insulin for a few years. it's late and i'm tired... all i can think of off-hand is nathalie's pelusa who had been on insulin for about 3 years.

as far as keeping costs down... many here use the ReliOn meters and test strips from WalMart. they're probably the least expensive. many feed the low carb Friskies canned varieties which are also less expensive than others.

i'm sure others will chime in as the day goes on....

 

Hi welcome to Lantus Land. Lantus is a fabulous insulin. We were on it 3 months and recently went otj! I agree with what Jill said about the relion meter, that is what we use. If you have a walmart near you this is the cheapest meter and test strips out there. A canned diet is a must! When Scrabble was diagnosed we switched immediately and have been on Fancy Feast low carb ever since. Testing is extremely important and a key to getting otj. I am sure others will come by and offer advice. Read the stickies at the top of the page. I know all the info is very overwhelming at first, I just kept reading it over and over until I understood it all and then just asked questions on what I was confused on. I wish you the best of luck and hope you will stick around!!

 

Welcome!

Yes, reading up on things is effort, overwhelming and a lot to take in. But oh so worth it!

My Suzie was declared old & dying a month ago, I went to another vet for a second opinion and got the diagnosis diabetes. Since Suzie has gone on Lantus, she has started eating again by herself, gained weight, the vet could not believe it was the same cat when we went for a check-up, and is now even earning dose reductions.

I have not been on this board for very long, but it's been a life-saver, for Suzie, literally a life-saver.

The feed wet food DEFINITELY makes a difference - I am transitioning Suzie to eating more and more wet food and I am watching those glucose levels drop. Home testing, whilst a bit of effort, is also re-assuring, because I know what is going on and can make adjustments accordingly.

Stick around, you'll get lots of great advice and loads and loads of support. Perlonius will thank you for it!

 

Hi and Welcome

Myself and Max are very new to this board. Everything was very overwhelming at the beginning. The terminology, the testing, the number tracking. What I tried to do was take one day at a time. If I think about how I felt at the beginning and where we are now, about 6-7 weeks down the line I would have never thought things would have been so easy. The testing eventually becomes totally routine, the tracking becomes routine, and soon you'll understand the causes and effects of the insulin and that becomes easy too. Do things one step at a time, in ways that make it not so stressful. I would say your first step is to find out about low carb wet food. The links have been posted, consider yourself lucky to have so much choice in the US. Transition him onto that first because a low carb diet makes a huge difference to the numbers. Lantus has very good results in bringing cast into remission, that said it's also a case of luck. The testing and tracking is essential if you are aiming for remission. I promise it's not so bad once you get into it. Last night I read an initial info page that I had printed out when Max was diagnosed that describes the various ranges for diabetic cats from uncontrolled to tightly regulated. I remember reading that and thinking, yeah sure...we'll be lucky just to get you semi controlled....well Max is currently almost at tightly regulated and aiming for remission. I would have never in a million years thought I would have gotten to this point when I started. Take it one test and one day at a time, it really does get easier.

 

OH OH OH Pick my spreadsheet to look at for an example of what happens to a diabetic cat who is a sneak and steals some of the dry food.
(Some background: I have one civvie, non diabetic, cat who eats only dry foods; long story)

Just take a look at Shadoe's last 2 days and you will SEE that her numbers skyrocket from that dry food, that kitty krak, it's horrible! Now, it will likely take her a couple days to get that crap out of her system UGH.

I can't comment on kitties going OTJ by diet control only if they have been a long term diabetic, but I bet there are tons. Give shots, heal pancreas, see progress with change to decent foods, improve and then get OTJ.

Would you feed your kids a constant diet of fast foods and candies and ice cream and chocolate bars and chips&dip? Nope! But we feed our kitties crap all the time. Why? I don't know! I frequently mention to the staff and vets at the vet hospital where I take my two FD kitties that they are selling McDonalds-like fast food to people. They tolerate me well LOL.
RANT OFF/POSTPONED TO ANOTHER DAY.

OK, another touchy issue. Keep in mind I am a bit of a testaholic, :lol: Testing before shots. MUST BE DONE. You are shooting BLINDLY if you don't know Pur's BG before shooting insulin that is supposed to bring down Pur's BG number. Just imagine if you shoot but Pur's BG was already quite low? Please know that all cats don't show symptoms of HYPO. There are so many people who have tested a normal acting kitty only to find that they are at a DANGEROUSLY LOW number. Then, it's a full night awake feeding, testing, working hard to bring the numbers back up and that truly COULD TAKE HOURS. If there are any tests that MUST be taken, it's the tests pre-shot. Please do those two tests, if nothing else.
If you know a diabetic person, you can ask them how it feels when their numbers go too low; it's not a good feeling I have been told. If no other tests can be done, please try to test just before you are shooting. If the number you get worries you, post here and someone can help you with decisions on what to do.

For sure read all the stickies as the others have already mentioned.
In particular look at the Hypo one.
List of Hypo symptoms
How to treat Hypos

Everyone here knows how you guys feel about your kitty; family is how I see it. They are so very precious to us and we want to do all that we can to keep them happy and healthy.

Here are some more places to look
Spreadsheet Template and Instructions
Profile Creation
New to the Group

1. the spreadsheet is MOST important to track all the tests you take and it helps you see how Pur is doing, and also it helps others who are much more experienced to see stuff that you or I can't see, even if we squint and look sideways at our ss.
2. the profile is a good thing because you can put in there all important info that people will ask you over and over ad nauseum.

In case you haven't guessed already, I am kinda wordy, but really quite harmless.

Welcome to the group and be sure to ask every question you have. There's always someone who can get you an answer, or give an opinion, or direct you where to go to get your answer.

 

Hi Wes and Purlonius! Welcome to LL =)

I know there is a lot to take in, all of us felt overwhelmed when we first came here. It's pretty strange (or was for me at first) to show up here and read all this info that COMPLETELY conflicted with everything my vet told me. The food thing really got me, the vet wanted to sell the prescription stuff but then I found those food charts and saw that the food they sell to diabetic cats is higher in carbs than most of the inexpensive foods on the list. I also came here thinking I could feed dry food if it was grain free but I learned differently right quick! Diet change makes a HUGE difference. Some kitties (my guy is one) are pretty sensitive to carbs, so while the accepted amount is up to 10% carbs... I have to stick with 5% or less for Tugger because anything higher sends his numbers up. Dry food sends his numbers through the roof, even the so called "low carb" dry. Lots of kitties show up here with a recent diagnosis and find that they never even need insulin because canned LC food does the trick. Others find they only need to use insulin for a short time to allow the kitty's pancreas time to heal.

You'll find that pretty much all of us here are kind of rabid about the home testing. We're like that for a reason. I really wanted to link to a condo or two to show you why but I'm striking out finding what I'm after. What I can say is that in the short time I've been here in Lantus Land, I've seen multiple kitties lives saved because their humans started testing blood sugar at home after encouragement from members here. The board has seen some kitties die because their humans were never told to test or were told NOT to test so they shot blindly while kitty was already low. So many kitties don't show signs of hypo till it's TOO LATE. My guy, again, is one. He's frisky and playful in the 40's so based on behavior alone, if I wasn't testing I'd go ahead and shoot without knowing he's already almost dangerously low. Giving insulin to a 40 and then just walking away without further testing is likely a death sentence. So at the very least you should always, always, always (did I mention, always?) get a pre-shot number. It's good to get a spot check or two in whenever you can too, the more information you gather, the better you can care for your kitty =)

 

Hi! I know the beginning of this is all totally overwhelming, and it seems like you have to be nuts to be able to make this work and take care of a diabetic kitty. Here's the thing--you've already been giving shots, and you've already been doing some tests. You've already won half your battle! We thought diabetes was a death sentence for our cat when he was diagnosed in February. I found this board, and still thought I couldn't handle this because my husband and I both work full time, we have a toddler, and an infant. There just weren't enough hours in a day to make this work properly. But Max has been insulin free for over a month now!

For food, we feed both our cats Friskies canned now. Either the Turkey and Giblets or Liver & Chicken--both are the pate style. I believe all the pate-style flavors of original Friskies are LC. I've never paid more than $0.45 per can. My boys go through 2 and 2/3's cans (the 5.5oz size) a day. I don't think the larger cans really save me much money if I buy the smaller ones on sale, and it's easier to measure the right amt of food out of the smaller ones. It does cost more than the dry we were feeding, but we were either feeding Science Diet or Iams, so it really isn't that much more. Now that I know which flavors they like and that don't upset their tummies (Max is prone to puking for a variety of reasons), I just buy it by the case from PetSmart when it's on sale. I've also bought individual cans at Target when it's been on sale too, and I always look for coupons before I buy. For treats we use the Prime Bites freeze-dried chicken in the dog treat isle at PetSmart. It only contains chicken, so it has no carbs, and I can break the pieces down into smaller ones for the cats (and of course the dog likes these too!).

I only ever needed one vial of Lantus insulin for Max. It lasted for the whole 6 or 7 weeks he was on it. If you buy the cartridges, and order from Canada, you can get a 5pack of them for about $120, I think, and that should last at least 5 months as someone else already mentioned (but ordering from Canada is definitely cheaper than buying in the US--it just takes longer to get here). We also used the Maxima AST meter from www.hocks.com as the strips were only $16-something for 50. I also bought my syringes from there--with little kids at home and working full time it was just easier for me to be able to order supplies than to have to track them down (and I really hate Walmart, I won't go in there unless I have absolutely no other choice).

I thought there was no way we could test enough because of how little we were home. But somehow we managed. My DH learned to test so he could do it when I wasn't able to, and we did have to give up some weekend fun for a few weeks while we learned how Max was doing with his insulin (running BG curves and whatnot to find his nadirs). I tested every few hours in the evening during the week too--and there were many nights I ended up staying up late to watch his low numbers or had to set my alarm to check him later. I've got an infant at home, I'm already not getting enough sleep, and the thought of having to give up sleep for my cat was, well, insane to me, but I love him, so I did it, and it was worth every minute of sleep I didn't get.

Max is now more playful than he's been in years. He's acting like the kitten I remember bringing home. For the first time in his life he's acting like the alpha male (and he's my oldest, so he should have been doing that all along). He's happy, he's finally at a healthy weight (he was overweight prior to developing diabetes, then underweight when diagnosed), and he's playing again. He's my lovebug, and I can't imagine not having him around.

The bottom line is that you CAN do this. The cost seems exorbitant at the beginning, but once you know what you're doing, it's not as bad as it seems. If you really can't afford the supplies, Diabetic Cats in Need may be able help you, but I believe Venita is on vacation right now. I had Max registered with them in case we would need more insulin--if he became a long term insulin dependent, I couldn't fit that into the budget. We were lucky and didn't need to use their help, but just knowing they were there was a big relief for us. The learning curve with this is definitely steep too, but you can learn it. Like I said, you've already won half the battle because you know how to test and give shots. The spreadsheet is easy--there's already a template set up that you can start from, and the colors fill themselves in. You just have to add the notes. And everyone here is uber supportive--they'll help you figure out the doses, and when it might be better to skip a shot. If your kitty has a chance of going OTJ, this is where it'll happen.

 

It *is* scary, and it *is* overwhelming initially. You think "I can't do this!" You take a deep breath, take one step at a time, one day at a time, and you move forward. You do the best you can, and you will not find a more helpful and supportive group of people anywhere. There will be difficult days, frustrating days, joyous days. You may have a diet-controlled diabetic cat. You may only need a short time on a different insulin to allow the pancreas to heal. It's worth trying. And I know you probably don't believe it now, but all this "stuff" just becomes part of a normal day. For me, testing Donovan takes just a few seconds, and if I were still giving him injections, that would take a minute more, if that. Initially I was all hyperventilating and freaking out OMG, I'm gonna have to POKE and INJECT my cat :shock:. No way. I didn't think I could do it. But I did.

Give it a chance.