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What are acceptable BG readings

Discussion in 'Feline Health - (The Main Forum)' started by Ricky, Jun 2, 2019.

  1. Ricky

    Ricky Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2019
    Williams BG has dropped from 128 to 54 using a Walmart Relion BG tester. He is also dumping urine like mad. What are acceptable limits for a cat when using this tester? My vet evidently missed my message about this question. Any help would be much appreciated. thanks.
     
  2. Larry and Kitties

    Larry and Kitties Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    What Insulin and dose?
    When was the 128 taken in relation to shot time?
    When was the 54 taken in relation to shot time?
    54 is a little low on a human meter for the minimum BG during a cycle.
    128 is a little high for a non-diabetic cat.
     
  3. Ricky

    Ricky Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2019
    Wow does the number swing that much? I will need to take more samples. So the 128 was 2 hours before his shot 3 weeks ago. The 54 was 4 hours after his shot today. For the 128 reading we had just been to the vet and had his fructose test, and I was testing to learn how to test. The way the vets talked this was a slow transition. They did a fructose test 3 weeks after he was diagnosed and put on this level of insulin, then made another appointment for 6 months recheck so I thought the levels took time to change. He seemed to be doing well so I haven't been testing regularly. I just test when he seems to be having trouble of some kind. So I thought he might be reading high again because he is passing copious amounts of urine. So I tested and got a 54. He is getting 2 units of ProZinc insulin twice a day. 10 am and 10 pm. The 128 was a couple of hours after his canned food dinner. Right now they are getting Instinct Ultimate Protein formula for dinner. They are getting rabbit formula one day and venison the other day as I transition them to all venison. (Venison is lower in carbs and responsibly grass fed, and the rabbit comes from China). They do not like sudden changes. They get canned food in the evening so that the outdoor cats will come in for dinner. They have access to Young Again Zero formula kibble all day long. They are eating less and less kibble and scarfing down the canned food better than the ever have so I may be able to just feed canned shortly. Thanks for your reply.
     
  4. Ricky

    Ricky Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2019
    Your poor dog probably thinks it's a cat! Darndest pack he's ever seen!!
     
  5. Ricky

    Ricky Member

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    May 9, 2019
    I have trouble getting Williams ears to bleed. I really could not ask for a better patient as he tolerates my poking his ears and his shots really well, but I have to poke the ears several times to get the blood to come.
     
  6. CandyH & Catcat

    CandyH & Catcat Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2019
    several things help when you're just getting started testing, getting blood from the ear

    lancet size, especially at the beginning == 28 gauge (look at the package for size) pricks a bigger spot than the 30,31,33 "ultra thin" lancets
    massaging the ear, or warming it, before pricking, gets the blood flowing in the ear == can make a big difference
    (also, hold the ear below where you've pricked -- blood flows from tip to base out at the edge of the ear)
    the thinnest skim of polysporin, neosporin, even vaseline, seems to help the blood bead up instead of oozing through fur

    I found that if you prick, then let the cat shake head, the activity tends to get the blood droplet increasing,
    Catcat fights testing unless he's got his nose in the food bowl, so the action of him licking and gulping, moves the blood too

    much better control if you use the lancet free-hand (without pen or device) and prick 45 degrees aimed up towards the ear tip

    after you've tested for a short length of time, cat's ear will "grow" new capillaries because of the body's response to the testing pokes

    you are lucky that William tolerates the pricking -- I have to scoop the blood droplet off Catcat's ear with a tiny spoon, he won't tolerate the meter+strip anywhere near his ear -- shakes head, folds ear, fights to get away, deploys claws and teeth
     
  7. Bama Kitty Mom (AL)

    Bama Kitty Mom (AL) Member

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2018
    You may find it helpful to turn off audio alerts on the meter. You can watch the screen to see when it is ready to receive blood. As @CandyH and Catcat says, using the lancet without the device is better. Maybe because the device tends to make noise as well.
     
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  8. Bron and Sheba (GA)

    Bron and Sheba (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2015
    Those numbers are quite low for a newly diagnosed on 2 units of Prozinc. Did you start off on the 2 units?
    If I were you I would be testing before EVERYshot to ensure it is safe to shoot the insulin and test again around +4 or +5 ( 4 or 5 hours after the insulin is given to see how low the insulin is taking your kitty. 54 is a low number. If you get a number like this you need to be testing again within an hour to check that he has not dropped further ( which would be too low)
    I am going to tag @Rachel as she uses Prozinc and will be able to help you.
     
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  9. Rachel

    Rachel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2013
    Good morning! Yes, those numbers are very low for a newly diagnosed cat. I agree with Bron. I'd test before every single shot and if you get a number lower than 200, I wouldn't give a shot. If you can, with a number below 200, I'd stall for 20 minutes WITHOUT FOOD and retest to see if he rises. That way, you might be able to give a shot still, but the number you get won't be food influenced. If you could test before every shot and then test again whenever you can mid cycle that would help a lot. Then we can see how low the number is going. For Prozinc, we dose based on both preshot and mid cycle numbers. We like to see where they are before the shot, then how low that dose takes them, then where they end up. That helps us see if the dose is taking them too low or not low enough so we can adjust as needed.

    Are you interested in getting a spreadsheet set up to help us keep track of William's BG numbers? It's pretty easy and can give both you, your vet, and us the information at our fingertips to help see what's going on!
     
    Bron and Sheba (GA) likes this.
  10. Ricky

    Ricky Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2019
    Yes the vet started us off on two units. I am beginning to think maybe my vet is killing my cat. William be
    I would be interested in setting up a spreadsheet yes. Maybe you have a template? I could just start one but I am not sure what pertinent information to put on it. I am becoming concerned that my vet is not well versed on diabetic cats. I am now working with a sudden flare up of kidney disease. It may be the no carb food I put the cats on is too high in phosphorus for older kitties. I have corrected the food issue and I am hoping for a remission in the kidney problem numbers.
     
  11. CandyH & Catcat

    CandyH & Catcat Well-Known Member

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    Apr 23, 2019
  12. Ricky

    Ricky Member

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    May 9, 2019
    So I have the template as per instructions. Tonight....after 12 hours since last injection, which was half of previous, (the vet said go from 2 to 1.5 units, but after a day at 1.5 and BG still in the 50s I went to 1 this morning), and after dinner about 40 minutes ago, (I put it out at 630 but he just ate at a little after 9), his BG is now 74. No shot tonight. I will retest in the morning at shot time after breakfast and see how he is doing. (talk about a run on sentence!!) My apologies. Meanwhile, so I put the BG reading on the chart right?
     
  13. Ricky

    Ricky Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2019
    So I am not able to update the published spreadsheet. Am I supposed to go through the process each time I add a reading?
     
  14. Bron and Sheba (GA)

    Bron and Sheba (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Feb 21, 2015
    You should be able to just add the numbers each time with no trouble. Did you press the share button?
     
  15. Ricky

    Ricky Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2019
    Whoops i think I did not. lets see if that makes all the difference....
     
  16. Bron and Sheba (GA)

    Bron and Sheba (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Feb 21, 2015
    Yes I can see a 74!
    Can you put in the number or units you gave please as well?
     
  17. CandyH & Catcat

    CandyH & Catcat Well-Known Member

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    Apr 23, 2019
    make sure you go in via Google apps, and Drive -- going in through your signature line doesn't allow you to update the spreadsheet
     
  18. Ricky

    Ricky Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2019
    I finally figured that out! That is what I was doing incorrectly. I have this now. I am off to get some more lances. Will check William this morning. If his level of activity and general demeanor are any indication he is doing much better.
     
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  19. Ricky

    Ricky Member

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    May 9, 2019
    So William is at BG 93 this morning. His last insulin shot was 24 hours ago at 1 unit.
     
  20. Kathy1966

    Kathy1966 Member

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    May 21, 2019
    My cat Buddy was diagnosed on the 20th of May. I found this forum on that first day and switched Buddy from dry to low carb wet foods. That alone has dropped his numbers to normal and I never had to give him any more insulin after the initial dose the vet gave him. I will be keeping him on low carb wet food and monitoring off and on to make sure he stays in the normal range. I wish you all the best with your cat. I know this forum can help you!
     
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  21. Ricky

    Ricky Member

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    May 9, 2019
    I had less success switching to wet foods. I have 3 cats. They have ALWAYS had wet food for dinner in the evening, with a hi carb dry food to free feed on all day. If I take away the dry, the don't eat the wet on the second day. It is really strange. I was afraid of getting William into kidney trouble by not eating and also maybe going into hypoglycemia so I found a no carb dry food made from freeze dried meat that they would eat, along with the wet food dinner. That seems to have done the trick. However it appears that I blew it and waited too long to put back the kibble as William now has elevated kidney levels. In 6 weeks he went from normal to crisis mode. The same company makes a kibble for kidney distressed cats so I am now switching to that. It is also no carb, but has very low phosphorus. It is called Young Again Zero LID. I am hoping to clear up the kidney problems with this. Meanwhile...Danny caught a gopher and Sammy is as active and happy as ever so they seem to be doing well on the no carb meat diets. Cat boxes are back to better than normal. (Although still a lot of urine from William it seems less than it was last weekend). This forum is indeed a help. I am thinking that my vet is less well versed in cat diabetes than they should be.
     
  22. Kathy1966

    Kathy1966 Member

    Joined:
    May 21, 2019
    It's the same way with my vet. He wanted me to give Buddy 4 units of Prozinc 2 times a day without checking his BG. Said he'd be fine that the numbers were high enough I woudn't have to worry.. If you look at the spread sheet after he gave him 4 units the numbers kept dropping. If I had given him the 4 units blindly my Buddy would have bottomed out and he may not be here right now. I'm thankful to have found this forum and gotten help outside of my vet.
     
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  23. Daddy Jack's Mommy

    Daddy Jack's Mommy Member

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    Feb 18, 2019
    Ricky - Great job at testing William's BG and doing what you felt was right for him, despite the vet's advice. It's amazing how many members never gave their cats the prescribed doses of insulin instructed by a vet. I agree with Kathy, that if she had blindly given Buddy 4U of prozinc there would be a good chance that he wouldn't be here today. We do need to research and be proactive. My sugar baby was dx in February, and I was told to give him 2U twice daily. Testing was never discussed. I was fortunate, as all of us have been, to find this site. Jack was never given 2U, and from his first shot on Feb 22, 2019 until 2.5 weeks ago, his BG kept going down. He's in remission now, having had his last insulin shot on May 18th. You're right - many vets aren't well versed in feline diabetes. William is fortunate that he has such a good caregiver, willing to learn all that he can. Welcome to FDMB!
     
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  24. Daddy Jack's Mommy

    Daddy Jack's Mommy Member

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    Feb 18, 2019
    This is interesting... I've found that if Jack shakes his head, the blood flies all over the place! But I never paid attention or noticed if it then helped blood to flow better.
     
  25. CandyH & Catcat

    CandyH & Catcat Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2019
    may only work if the droplet is tiny to begin with, even using 28 gauge lancet -- if I tried to hold on one nanosecond longer, I would have a huge fight on my hands -- he will accept me re-grabbing his ear after a few seconds .. warm sock, warm pill bottle, were no go, he shies and runs if he senses things approaching his ear, including, most of the time, the meter with test strip inserted, if I want to test ON his ear, I need to grab scruff and demand he hold still -- usually easier to scoop droplet off if I can, test "remotely" -- ECID -- I appreciate those who can test without food, test without without a wrestling match -- not there yet
     
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  26. Daddy Jack's Mommy

    Daddy Jack's Mommy Member

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    Feb 18, 2019
    Kudos to you for never giving up! It's exhausting just reading about it! :nailbiting:
     
  27. Ricky

    Ricky Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2019
    So Williams BG is at 100 with no more insulin. It has been 36 hours since he has had insulin. It has been 3 hours since his dinner. He had instinct extra protein rabbit formula for dinner. Could this be remission? He is more active and more comfortable. I hope I am doing the right thing.
     
  28. Ricky

    Ricky Member

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    May 9, 2019
    Wow CatCat is a handful! Takes a determined caregiver. Definitely someone who loves their cat!
     
  29. Ricky

    Ricky Member

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    May 9, 2019
    On the upside...when i am done testing william I can test me! I always seem to get through the ear and into my finger. Oh...I am not diabetic, I just use me for a sanity check of the meter, and since I am already bleeding......
     
  30. Bron and Sheba (GA)

    Bron and Sheba (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2015
    Keep testing before the insulin is due and put that number in the AMPS and PMPS column. If it’s too low to give insulin record a 0 units as you have been doing. Then keep checking during the cycle to see how the BSL go. He may be in remission. Only time will tell. Keep posting every day with the results. He needs to be able to stay under 120 and preferably under 100 for 14 days to be in remission. Record in the remarks column when and what you feed please.
     
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  31. Ricky

    Ricky Member

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    May 9, 2019
    Ok on the spread sheet. So I replaced the thin lances with a 28 gauge. I get more blood that way. However, it hurts William so will be struggling with the finer lances again. He doesn't even know I stick him with the fine lances. 30 or 33 gauge. The blue ones. I will go back to those.
     
  32. Ricky

    Ricky Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2019
    William is now free feeding Young Again Zero LID for Mature cats formula that is zero carbs for his diabetes and low phosphorous for his kidneys. As his condition improves he is becoming less tolerant of being poked for blood tests. His BG was 85 tonight. I gave him is 1/2 ounce of instinct ultra protein rabbit formula at 7 and tested him at 10. He was also eating Young again around 8 so 10 is basically two hours after "dinner". William has had no insulin since the morning of the 5th. The "high" BG levels around 100 to 110 can be traced to my having to take him off of Young Again Zero formula for younger cats that had too high of a phosphorus level for his kidneys and substituting "low" carb instinct kibble with instinct rabbit formula. Now that he is on a formula for "mature" cats that is low in phosphorous he can eat the Young Again formula. I am hopeful that this is indeed remission, and the low phosphorous can give me many more years with him sitting on my lap.....
     
  33. Bron and Sheba (GA)

    Bron and Sheba (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2015
    Williams BSLs are looking good. Keeping testing each day. Are you able to test him before any food, and then a few hours later?
    If it is possible try and get tests in at different times of the day each day.
    Is he eating any wet food at all?
    Does he drink much?
    How is the peeing? Is it normal or excessive?
     
  34. Ricky

    Ricky Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2019
    William still is leaving copious amounts of urine in the box. I am told that this situation will probably not change and all I can do is keep the phosphorous levels low so as to not tax his kidneys. William drinks plenty of water. We have the 3 cats so there are bowls of water in several places in the house. Each bathroom counter has one, as well as one at the food dish. There is another on the upstairs master bathroom floor, so that is 5 water dishes. William uses the same spot in the cat box so I can tell which is his. I do seem to detect a lessening of the amount of urine, and there was the beginnings of an infection at last vet visit which the vet said could possibly be the cause of the excessive urine, and William is on an antibiotic for that. I don't hold much hope as he had an infection in April and his kidney numbers were fine so I suspect that the infection is not the cause of his bad kidney numbers. I mentioned in my last post that as William feels better he is becoming less tolerant of being tested for BG. Since there are no insulin injections I will continue to test randomly, but I think once a day is all I can wrestle him down for now. William is indeed overweight, but make no mistake...he is incredibly strong. I only get away with what he lets me. He has been very cooperative, but his patience appears to be wearing thin.... I am really happy to see it. He visits me early in the morning in bed and lays on my chest to get petted. He is down from 22 pounds to 19 pounds, and is more active. I notice the 3 pounds at morning pettings. So much lighter. Remember the elephant in the COPD adds? That was me with William on my chest before he got sick. When he was sick and then running low BG levels from better food plus injections he stopped coming for his morning pettings. William gets 1/2 ounce of instinct rabbit formula at dinner. It is the lowest phosphorous level food that I can find. With only 1/2 ounce, and that diluted with water I am hoping to keep him used to wet food. I was trying to transition to wet food but they are all so high in phosphorous that it really seems an impossible task to find one that is high protein, low or no carb, and low phosphorous...
     
  35. Ricky

    Ricky Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2019
    Hi all! I am excited about Williams recent Blood Glucose levels. He tested at 84 this afternoon. He has not had an insulin injection since June 5. His urine output is only slightly higher than that of the other two cats. (Danny and Samuel) Maybe 20% more at the max. He is 19 pounds down from 22 at last weigh in so not surprising there is SOME more urine as he is somewhat bigger. I will be going into the vet again in two weeks to have his blood work done again. A fructose level and a kidney check. I am unable to test him after feeding times as we are back to free feeding with Young Again Zero LID formula for Mature cats. He still enjoys his rabbit formula dinner, but only as a treat. I split (1) 3 ounce can between the 3 cats. They will all 3 leave it behind after just a few minutes of slurping it up. Danny caught a ground squirrel yesterday, so we did not need to feed dinner, (dinner is to get Danny to come inside at dusk lest the mighty hunter becomes the hunted). He ate half of the ground squirrel so he did not even ask for dinner. This morning he had the other half for breakfast. He is not hunting today, just sleeping off that huge breakfast. But I digress. William is much improved. He is happier and moving more and playing with the other cats again.

    I am still struggling with getting his ears to give me a drop of blood on the first stick. I am reading up on all of the tips and thinking what to try next. He is no longer tolerating the sticks. He tries to run away, and jerks when I try to get the measurement because the last instrument hurt a little. That ruins the test as the drop smears and I have to start over. All in all a tense time. Still,,, better than it was.
     
  36. Ricky

    Ricky Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2019
    Third stick today. I only had to poke Williams ears 3 times to get him to give me a drop of blood. We are getting better at this. His BG level is 81. He has not had an insulin injection since June 5. I am unable to test him after feeding times as we are back to free feeding with Young Again Zero LID formula for Mature cats. He still enjoys his rabbit formula dinner, but only as a treat. I split (1) 3 ounce can between the 3 cats. They will all 3 leave it behind after just a few minutes of slurping it up. They respect each others bowls, so I know who doesn't finish his. William eats his, Danny eats his after a bit. Sammy eats about half of his and then leaves the rest and no one finishes it. (I am gradually reducing Sam's food and increasing Danny's so we don't have the waste. I mean a bunny gave his life for this meal so no since putting it in the septic tank. William gets about 1/2 ounce as it is higher in phosphorus than is healthy for his kidney condition.

    So the vet says 3 weeks is a good interval to test his fructosamine level and a month for his kidney levels so we are going back in for testing right around the 4th of July depending on the Drs. vacation schedule. William is alert and active and still playing with the other cats. I am still getting love me visits around 3 in the morning so he seems to be back to optimal health. He is now at 18.2 pounds. Down from his high reading 22.3. I am a bit concerned that he may be losing weight too fast. I may have to figure out a supplement. Still, it is actually 4 pounds since April so that is about 2 pounds a month and I think I read 10% in a month is not unhealthy. No more though. So that would be 4.3 to 4.4 pounds? I will check with the vet on that when we go in. I know most people on this website are canned or raw food only zealots and I would go that route except for the phosphorus issue. That being said, the Young Again Zero LID formula for Mature Cats is giving me really good healthy cats. The young again folks claim that the moisture problem is actually a carb problem and without the grains in the food the cats have a more than adequate thirst drive. They have had no reports of urinary problems from feeders or in their studies. (I asked them, and they have a section on their website about moisture). The boys eat way less of the Young again than they did of the Science Diet so my experience is so far backing up the Young Again product claims. At the very least this is a good food to use while transitioning a kibble cat to a wet food cat.
     
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  37. Ricky

    Ricky Member

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    May 9, 2019
    So Williams Blood Glucose Level tested at 88 today. He weighs in at 16.6 pounds. He is active and loving...except for today when he won't have anything to do with me after the blood letting. He will go in next week for a fructosamine test and to have his kidney levels tested. He seems to be leaving behind an average amount of urine now. His stools are still somewhat loose and not the same color as the other two cats. Theirs are dark brown, almost black, like the kibble, and Williams is lighter brown. The stools are no longer watery, just not as firm as the other guys. His rapid weight loss is now a source of concern. That is 1.6 pounds in two weeks. We will see what the vet says next week.
     
  38. Ricky

    Ricky Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2019
    We went to the vet for blood work today. His fructose amine test was so low that the vet said that if he was on insulin they would lower the dose! He is indeed doing well on the diabetes front. The vet does not think he is losing weight too fast. They weighed him at 16.5 pounds. She (the vet) says he would be best at around 14 pounds. I guess I am just used to him being too fat so I think he is too thin. William's bladder infection is back so we still can't get a good look at his kidney issues. So back on antibiotics, which he hates but at least only once a day and I can give him a treat afterwards. Funny, I was calling today to get an appointment for this week as planned in advance, but they had an opening today, and William hid under the bed this morning which he does when he does not feel well. I think he was feeling the problems with his bladder. He is out from under the bed again after a few hours from receiving his antibiotic. I will run another ear stick tomorrow as his BG was high at the vets, but they said the see that kind of rise due to stress of being at the doctors office. Just want to confirm.... Thanks you guys for all of your help.
     
  39. Ricky

    Ricky Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2019
    So William cleaned up his meat dish last night and ate Roasted Turkey Breast this morning. He wants dental treats with the other boys but I don't dare give him more than a couple, so I have begun to give him turkey breast instead. He is eating more meat now. The other two are still hard cases and want their kibble. With Williams kidneys I need to watch his phosphorus so will probably remain on Young Again Zero carbohydrate Limited Ingredient Diet for mature cats with this batch of kitties. With any luck we have a couple more sets of kitties in our lives (I am 67 and my wife is 72) so will start the next ones off on MEAT right off the bat.
     

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