? what is the source of blood sugar in a protein only diet (kitty Pics)

As i struggle about trying to maintain regiment in this new way of life with Raja, I am curious what the source of sugar is in my cat whose primary diet most of his life has been raw/semi cooked meat with low carb dry food ?

At this point he is only having poached chicken, with scrambled eggs and a tiny amount of ultra low carb cat food. As i give him 3.5 units of lantus ( vet wants to get to 4) I still have this nagging feeling that I am giving him too much to begin with ( started at 3 units suggested by the vet and not knowing any protocol myself)

I struggle to keep his record as a novice( only recently I found the best way to get his blood, scheduling conflicts, running out of strips, not wanting to poke him etc)

On the plus side he is peeing less, not drinking like a maniac, shows improvement in his walk ( he was nearly down to his hocks). feels heavier (need to get a scale), more alert, purs more, saw good poop (i thought he had stopped pooping) for the first time. Wanted to walk on the hallway/backdeck etc.

I have included some sobering yet hopeful images.

So as part of the inquiry, would the protocol call for the fresh start at .5 ?
Go up an up with the feeling that i am giving him more insulin without having a sugar source ?

And what is the source of sugar in his case ?



Please advice

Thank You

Arman

 

As I am stuck in this quagmire of not starting the protocol properly from low dosage, and
not being sure whether I should follow the protocol midway, and
having this hunch that every time I have lowered his dosage I got better numbers ( i know I have limited data)

and that hunch in me tells me to go low in few cycles and start from there..a feeling that tells me that Raja needs a tiny amount of insulin..and i know the amount doesnt matter..the numbers do.. and again that loop continues

 

The biochemistry of digestion and food utilization is complex. There are many interconnected pathways. It's possible for glucose to be manufactured from protein by a process called "gluconeogenesis". Glucose is needed in kitties for proper energy production,, functioning of brain cells, etc. Very complex topic that you would encounter in a third year biochemistry course at university.

ETA: I'm not experienced enough with Lantus to give specific dosing advice but I suspect you'll have to continue raising his dose to get to a more effective level.

 

Welcome. Have you posted before? How much your cat weighs helps determine the starting dose. Then you need to decide what approach to take, SLGS or TR. I suggest you read the stickies. When was your cat diagnosed? What were you feeding then? Any other health issues? You are correct that moving up too fast can miss a good dose. We move up in .25 increments. Are you using syringes with half unit markings? Are you using lantus or Levimar? It would help to add all this to your signature. If you posted before it helps to link your posts.

Kudos to you for testing at home. Most but not all of us use human meters. The test strips are way cheaper and it looks like you test a lot so following TR makes sense.

 

Thank you. I have added info to my sig.
I have read and reread the stickies. I started not knowing any protocol at 3u ,as suggested by vet. ..and that is where the source of confusion is.

 

Yes, you have limited. Always, and I mean every shot, please get a test before you shoot insulin. With Raja's numbers as they are, I suspect it is currently safe to give a shot but one day this will change and it's a habit you want to get into. Another thing, seeing the preshtntest value and another one someone in thencycle gives those of us used to reading BG patterns an idea of how the dose is doing.

If you have run out of strips, I suggest getting a backup meter with readily available strips. That's a reason many of us have human meters, you can get strips at a late night pharmacy if needed.

OK, onto the dose. If you get a preshot test tonight, and one before bed, and you don't see anything under 300, you can increase to 4.0 units tomorrow. Some cats need more insulin than others and I suspect Raja may be one of those. We want to get him out of these ugly numbers as soon as safely possible.

What kibble are you feeding him? An all wet food or raw diet would be better. Cooked chicken plus scrambled eggs is not a complete diet. Most raw or home prepared foods have other ingredients, like taurine, in them. Kitties cannot go long on an unbalanced diet.

 

[QUOTE="

What kibble are you feeding him? An all wet food or raw diet would be better. Cooked chicken plus scrambled eggs is not a complete diet. Most raw or home prepared foods have other ingredients, like taurine, in them. Kitties cannot go long on an unbalanced diet.[/QUOTE]
thank you so much. as mentioned in my post, he has always been on a high protein, low carb diet. Now he only eats poached chicken, eggs and a bit of high protien canned food

 

How much of his meal and which canned food?

 

I want to underscore what Wendy said. While cats are obligate carnivores, they need a species appropriate diet which include those nutrients that are specific to their needs (e.g., taurine) in appropriate amounts. A diet that is strictly protein, like raw chicken, if it is not formulated for cats, will cause all sorts of health problems. I would liken it to what happened to sailors before someone figured out that they needed vitamin C in their diet -- they got rickets. You may want to read the website put together by Lisa Pierson, DVM on feline nutrition. It's truly excellent. Also, because a food is high in protein, doesn't mean it's low in carbs. Dr. Lisa's site also has a food chart that gives information on the carb, fat, and protein content of most of the available canned foods.

I also agree with Wendy regarding getting into the routine of always getting a pre-shot test and your being able to increase Raja's dose. Given that Raja is a Savannah and a big cat when at his usual weight, his insulin needs could be more than for the average kitty. Frankly, though, there's no way to tell.

If no one has mentioned this yet, you may want to order Zobaline. It's a form of vitamin B12 (methylcobalamin) and is helpful in treating diabetic neuropathy. It doesn't work immediately but coupled with getting Raja's numbers in a better range and over the course of a month or two, it will help him to not walk on his hocks. I linked the product information but it's available on Amazon.

If this were my cat, I would not back the dose down to 0.5u. The numbers you're seeing are too high and you could risk other problems. From this point forward, you'll be making systematic increases in the dose so you will be more confident that you haven't bypassed what is a good dose for your cat. I really don't see that the numbers were better at a lower dose. There is some variation, but there's always variation in BG level. As far as starting dose, if you were following Tight Regulation and used the initial dose formula (initial dose = ideal weight in kilograms x 0.25), Raja's starting dose would have been around 2.25 - 2.5u. Hopefully, that gives you some reassurance about his current dose.

@Kris & Teasel gave a good intro to your question about the source of "sugar" despite a high protein diet. The easiest explanation is that the basic molecule that allows any organism to function is glucose. As a result, literally anything we eat is broken down to a common molecular form that the cells can utilize for energy and that form is glucose. Even the basic structure of protein is a glucose molecule -- it just has a nitrogen chain attached to the molecule. Obviously, carbohydrates are more easily broken down to glucose whereas protein because it's structure is different, has a few more steps before it's metabolized into glucose. That nitrogen group has to be broken off and that forms wastes which are eventually excreted.

 

thank you for your diet suggestions. To clarify here is the ingredient list of what he eats as a canned food. The only variation to the meat in the canned food is chicken, duck, kangaroo, guniea fowl etc.

He has this canned food and mostly chicken and eggs at this point. I have been giving him Zoabline which seems to be helping. I have also started supplementing Taurine but you can see he gets it from the canned food.

 

I can't find any information on whether too much taurine is a problem. I'm guessing that you've done your research to make sure that the amount of taurine, between the canned food and supplementation fall within the heathy range. I'm also hoping that you're cooking the eggs.

 

yes scrambled eggs

 

essentially he has had good diet all his life. Even the kibbles he used to have which he stopped eating about six months ago was carefully selected to have limited carbs. I have tried to make sure he has been well fed along with my other bengal Leloo who will be 18 this year.

 

It certainly sounds like you've been a lot smarter than most of us when it came to what you were feeding your cats. It wasn't until Gabby was diagnosed with FD that I did my homework on feline nutrition. You're clearly ahead of the game.

BTW, Raja is gorgeous. At some point, I'd love to see photos of Leloo, as well. They must get a huge amount of attention from your cat loving friends.

 

Is that the Koha brand of cat food you are feeding? If you look at Dr. Lisa's latest list on cat food, several of the Koha products are what we could consider medium or higher carb (above 10% carbs). For example, the Koha chicken pate is 11% carbs.

 

i see. if Koha is 25 -33 percent of his diet while the rest is animal protien would that be considered an acceptable amount of carb ?

 

Here is some information on amounts of taurine needed in a daily diet, as well as some other nutritional information (click on the Nutrition tab). I'm pretty sure you can't give too much taurine, the excess is just excreted. Raja might do better at this point if his diet was 25-33 percent animal protein and the balance a high-quality, low-carb canned food. He is probably missing out on other vitamins and minerals he needs, as well as the taurine. He also needs a calorie-dense food right now, since he has lost so much weight.

Raja truly is a magnificent cat! Is he an EG Savannah? I would love to see pictures of your Bengal, too. I have two Bengals, a brown marble and a silver rosetted. The brown marble one is an EG.