? Why won't BG stay down?

Discussion in 'Prozinc / PZI' started by shelaghc, Feb 23, 2018.

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  1. shelaghc

    shelaghc Well-Known Member

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    Jester's AMPS is back to nearly 400 again.
     
  2. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Looks like a bounce. He might have dropped lower last night but short of staying awake all night (not a good idea!) those are easy to miss. Try hard not to react to every number and just focus on trends over time.

    Here's something that might help visually: I know you like to record all your notes in detail on the right side of your SS and that causes the cells to expand vertically. It makes it hard to see many days at once. Why not shift to keeping your notes only on paper and let the cells stay at their normal size. Then you can literally stand back and squint at your SS taking in weeks of data at a time. That can really show the trends more clearly. If you want to attach a brief note to a cell, click on the cell and then right click on the little blue square in the lower right corner. A long menu will come up and near the bottom you'll see "insert note". Click on that and type in the box that opens. When you're finished and the box closes you'll see a little black triangle in the upper right corner of the cell. When you click on it the note will appear.
     
  3. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    Ouch. It wasn't that long ago that he was getting red pre-shot numbers, so at least this one is still pink (barely). See where he goes mid-cycle. Hopefully the pre-shot is just one of those things and will resolve soon.

    I do like Kris' suggestion about the notes. I usually shrink your spreadsheet down to like 40% in order to be able to see enough days to find patterns, but then it is too small to read any of the notes or numbers anyway. Of course it's up to you and what you prefer.

    I hope Jester settles down for you today! And good luck with your interview! :bighug:
     
  4. shelaghc

    shelaghc Well-Known Member

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    I can't look at anything right now.
    My internet is still down. I've been using the phone app just to fill in BG and dosage. But the screen isn't big enough to make out anything else.
     
  5. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    Don't worry about it for now. And I wouldn't go back and change the old info anyway - it's just something you might find helpful going forward - and after your internet is all fixed. Definitely not urgent. :)
     
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  6. shelaghc

    shelaghc Well-Known Member

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    +5 was over 200, but he'd had something to eat less than 2 hours prior - maybe an hour an a half.

    I'm at the library right now.
     
  7. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    Higher than we'd like to see, but still about a 50% drop for the cycle which is good.
     
  8. shelaghc

    shelaghc Well-Known Member

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    Vet is going to see Jester on Monday. I'll keep his dosage at 2 for the time being so I don't have to lie.

    (I grew up Catholic.....)
     
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  9. shelaghc

    shelaghc Well-Known Member

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    One quick question - the vet commented that when I increase Jester's food intake I should also be increasing his insulin.
    @Djamila and @Kris & Teasel - and anyone else who wants to weigh in, of course.
    What are your thoughts about that?
    I've been encouraging Jester to eat more in order to get his weight up. Could that be negatively affecting his readings?
     
  10. shelaghc

    shelaghc Well-Known Member

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    I have to leave in about a couple of minutes. I'm on my last refresh for the library computers. Plus, it's time for all nice librarians to go home.
     
  11. Rachel

    Rachel Well-Known Member

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    No I wouldn’t say that. You’d want to increase or decrease based on BG numbers.
     
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  12. shelaghc

    shelaghc Well-Known Member

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    Yes, but would his BG go up because of food intake?
     
  13. shelaghc

    shelaghc Well-Known Member

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    I'm getting booted off the system. Won't be able to respond for at least an hour.
     
  14. Rachel

    Rachel Well-Known Member

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    Wanted to get that in quickly so you’d see it. :) Your cat is probably thinking more food could cause higher numbers since we all know food makes BG go up. But unless you’re feeding higher carb food it shouldn’t really affect him that much. If you feed at specific times of day for example you’ll see the food spike usually within that first 2 hours. More food might make the number a bit higher but I don’t think it would be enough to be noticeable. I’d definitely suggest testing when you can to assess if the good intake is causing higher numbers but I wouldn’t increase just because of more food...only if BG numbers show it’s needed.
     
  15. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    How much is Jester eating these days? How many cans, what size can, and what type of food? Also, how much weight does he still need to gain, and has he been gaining?

    I totally agree with Rachel's response. More food on its own doesn't mean you need more insulin. Your cat's response to that food is what determines the need for insulin. Some cats don't really get food spikes. Some cats get huge food spikes. So it's just a matter of learning your cat. It doesn't look to me like Jester does. Most cats that graze don't get big spikes, and given how slowly you've said Jester eats, I'd put him the category of cats that graze.
     
  16. shelaghc

    shelaghc Well-Known Member

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    All Jester's food is pretty carefully documented in that right-hand cell - the one that makes the rows so big.

    Mostly he eats Friskies shreds which is medium carb - around 14.
    I have tried mightily to get him on anything lower carb - it can take a half hour to an hour to get him to eat as much as a quarter can of pate. And I just don't have the energy to keep persuading him that long.
     
  17. Rachel

    Rachel Well-Known Member

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    You gotta do what you gotta do to get them to eat. If he needs MC food so he'll eat like he needs to, you just dose around it. You just get the lowest carb food you can...if that's Friskies shreds, that's what it is!

    One thing to look into, possibly, is Tiki Cat. I fed the chicken varieties to my cats for awhile (we don't do any fish ever here) and it's shredded chicken...and I want to say zero carbs. It's definitely more expensive than Friskies, but you might try a can or two to see if he'd eat it...and as finances get better you'd know that was another option. And you could maybe add a can of that in just every now and then to help counteract the MC food? Just a thought, and of course, you've gotta do whatever works for your finances, but I wanted to make sure you knew that option was out there. :)
     
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  18. shelaghc

    shelaghc Well-Known Member

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    PMPS was 334.

    I've tried mixing lower carb food in with Jester's medium carb. Unfortunately all that happens is Jester turning up his nose at the whole bowl. And I'm not talking about half and half. Or even quarter and three quarters.

    He seems to sense the slightest change in flavor and immediately snubs his favorite foods.

    And those are generally carby foods.
     
  19. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    I wonder if part of the struggle to get him to eat is that he's eating so much? My kitties eat the calorie equivalent of one-and-a-half cans of Friskies shreds per day. It looks like Jester is eating almost twice that amount and they are about the same ages. Is he really active so needs a lot of calories? Do you know if he's been gaining weight? I'm just thinking you might be able to have him eat less, and still put on some weight. And that might help ease that feeling of having to coax him so much to eat.

    He might like the shreds not just because they are higher carbs, but also because they are higher in protein than the Friskies Pates. Cats tend to gravitate towards foods with the composition that makes them feel good, so it could be that the Friskies pate is just too low protein for him. The Fancy Feast Roasted/Flaked/Chunky foods have a protein content similar to the Friskies Shreds, but with lower carbs. So along with Rachel's suggestion of the Tiki Cat, you might consider giving those FF styles a try.
     
  20. shelaghc

    shelaghc Well-Known Member

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    Jester lost about 3.5 pounds- including 2 from this past fall.
    The only thing the vet told me was that he might never gain it back.
    He was 12.5 pounds summer 2016.
    The last check he was 9 pounds. He's never been fat - he's a long lanky boy with a tail so long I can hold it when he walks beside me without having to reach.

    I've tried FF roasted. That's the one he rejected when I added it to his food.

    I wouldn't know where to find Tiki and I have a feeling I can't afford it.
    I'm trying to live on $900 a month with rent at $640 and currently needing about 200 cans of cat food per month.
     
  21. shelaghc

    shelaghc Well-Known Member

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    And I have no way to weigh him so all I can go by is how skinny he is and how much I can feel his bones.
     
  22. shelaghc

    shelaghc Well-Known Member

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    298 this morning.

    And the repair guy for my DSL just left. They can't fix it today so I *still* don't have internet and likely won't until Tuesday at the soonest. And that's only if I can get an appointment.

    This is driving me crazy.
     
  23. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    Oh, I'm so sorry! No internet is a pain :(. Although right about now it would help if someone would take mine away so I would be more productive today! ;) I hope they can give you an appointment on Tuesday and get it fixed for you!
     
  24. shelaghc

    shelaghc Well-Known Member

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    Currently I'm shopping around to find an alternative.
    This is ridiculous. I've been offline at home since Wednesday.
     
  25. shelaghc

    shelaghc Well-Known Member

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    No mid-cycle today. I didn't finish at the library and doing errands until over an hour after +6.
    Now here's the funny bit.
    Jester's food cutoff was planned for 6:15pm so I could start easing his insulin earlier before I start the new job on March 5. I did my part on that.

    What I missed at first was Jester finishing off Sage's dinner behind my back. I bowed to the inevitable.

    At the appropriate time I took his PMPS - 355. Then remembered belatedly his after dinner snack.

    Crap. He'd been begging me for food for over an hour and now, if I wanted a potentially more accurate reading, I needed to postpone feeding him *and* giving him his insulin.

    Crap.

    45 minutes later, I did a second PMPS. The result?

    357.....
    A whole two points higher.

    :banghead:
     
  26. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    Lol...oh kitties...Well, at least you know Jester isn't prone to large food spikes! That means next time you catch him eating during the two hour window you don't have to worry about it. As a rule, you still want to keep that food-free time, but on the occasion it happens, you can just go ahead and stay on schedule anyway.

    And the really really good news is that he was eating without you having to sit right by him! There's always something a little extra enticing about eating another kitty's food, isn't there?
     
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  27. shelaghc

    shelaghc Well-Known Member

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    Fasting +4 before bed was 221.
     
  28. Rachel

    Rachel Well-Known Member

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    Oh Jester! He's a little cat thief huh? Finishing off Sage's dinner when no one is looking...
     
  29. shelaghc

    shelaghc Well-Known Member

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    AMPS 405 today.
    :-(
     
  30. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    Yuck. If you turn your head sideways and squint a little, it's pretty much a pink. :p
     
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  31. shelaghc

    shelaghc Well-Known Member

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    APMS was way later than usual. Could that have been a factor?
    Power went out overnight and I didn't wake up until after 9:30AM.

    Took a +5 and Jester was down to 200 - not fasting.
     
  32. Rachel

    Rachel Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, it being way later could definitely be a factor. It means he went that much longer basically without any insulin onboard at all...which would cause BG to be higher. So in a way that's good news! It's most likely not what he was at his normal AMPS time. On the bright side, you got some nice sleep in I hope! :)

    That +5 is good considering what the AMPS is!
     
  33. shelaghc

    shelaghc Well-Known Member

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    Well PMPS was 335. Minor improvement.
     
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  34. Teenuh

    Teenuh Member

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    My cat doesn't like the FF roasted either. Tiki is definitely not super budget friendly
    My cat doesn't like the FF roasted either. In regards to Tiki cat--I literally just placed an order for this on Amazon for my pet sitter as a birthday gift. I was able to get 12-2.8oz cans for about $24. It averages to about 48 cents a can. I can get double the cans for half the price with FF on Amazon. I would say Tiki cat isn't as budget friendly as FF.

    And if you can't afford it it is totally OK--just as Rachel said. I don't feed my cat that. I have big adult bills.
     
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  35. shelaghc

    shelaghc Well-Known Member

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    318 is AMPS.
    I'm leeching off the WiFi at a beer warehouse. *g*

    Update:
    Goodish thing 1: fasting +5 was 187
    Goodish thing 2: my internet is back!
    The reason it's only goodish is that I was made to wait until today to find out I had internet all along.
    The plug leading into my Wi-Fi router had pulled out just enough that it looked connected, but wasn't actually connected.

    A small amount of trouble-shooting on Wednesday would have saved me a *lot* of trouble over the last five days.
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2018
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  36. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    Hooray for internet! And hooray for blue +5’s!!!

    Although hanging out in a beer warehouse doesn’t sound so bad...
     
  37. shelaghc

    shelaghc Well-Known Member

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    Actually, I was at the dentist's office. But the wifi was next door at the beer warehouse. ;->
    When I finished with the dent, I sat in my car and checked my email. The story of me getting my internet back is one for the books.....

    So at the vet today, Jester's weight is up to 9.4 pounds - up .4 from the last visit I in early December. After nearly three months, I wish he had gained more. But I'll take anything right now.
    I just wish he liked the lower carb foods better. Someone from the FB page said he's going to send me some bonita flakes and some chicken flakes too to see if the flavor might entice Jester to eat the Friskies pate. But I fear it's the gravy he loves more than anything.

    Vet also would like me to reduce Jester to 1.75u. He thinks I'm overdosing.......
     
  38. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    Did he say what numbers made him think you were overdosing?
     
  39. shelaghc

    shelaghc Well-Known Member

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    He said he's most interested in the mid-cycles.
    He prefers the mid-cycles to be a little higher than mine have been - closer to the 200s.

    This actually reflects what an ER vet (completely different place, btw) told me back on Christmas day. Apparently, when a cat is hospitalized at that emergency vet's they won't dose if the BG is even in the mid 200s.

    I do recall possibly late last year (?) that folks were concerned by some of Jester's higher numbers and were wondering if they were the result of him getting too high a dosage.
    It was also around 2U as I recall. Jester hasn't had a dose over 2u since we stopped going to the first vet.
     
  40. Teenuh

    Teenuh Member

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    Oh goodness. We have all made troubleshooting errors.
    I bought a new HP printer last year and I couldn't get the ink cartridge installed correctly and it kept giving me an error message. I sent it back to HP, and they sent me a new printer. I was having the same issue. My step mom happened to be in town and she put it in and it worked. It turns out I was putting it in wrong.
    I think she is more tech savvy than me sometimes, or she just reads directions more carefully. Hahaha

    But being without internet definitely sucks! So glad it is fixed!!
     
  41. Teenuh

    Teenuh Member

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    Giving advice is much easier than taking it from someone.

    How do you fee about the doses? Do you feel like you are overdosing? In the end you hold the syringe and insulin.

    I get it is hard, as we want to trust these people who have had years of schooling. How do yo feel about this vet--that could sway your decision? At least it would for me.

    I know you don't want to lie to your vet, and if you don't feel comfortable lying to your vet then don't. Don't do something that will make you uncomfortable or uneasy.

    What game plan did the vet propose?
     
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