Hardey - diagnosed last month

Hi guys. My 12 yr old cat, Hardey, was diagnosed about 5 weeks ago. He has been on lantus (2 units, twice a day). He was at the vets on Tuesday for glucose testing and was about 150 - 160 all day. Vet said to keep him at 2 units, but to watch for possible problems if it dropped too low. I have been slowly changing his diet to more wet (friskees special diet and fancy feast) and less dry (science diet for liver issues - those isseus have been normalized, but it's what he'll eat so I'm not messing with it too much yet). I decided that since I've been going to more wet I should probably start testing at home. So, I bought a one touch today and after a few attempts I got a reading of 87 tonight right before it was time to give him his next injection. He had eaten his wet food about 5 - 10 minutes earlier. I decided to wait an hour and test again and it is now 107. Should I give him his insulin? Both seem really low. Why did I decide to start this on a Saturday... what was I thinking??

 

You don't have enough BG (blood glucose) history to shoot that low. My opinion would be to skip the shot for the night.

We do not advise new members to shoot insulin if the BG is <200. You do not know how low your cat will drop. "Better too high for a day, than too low for a minute."

A change to a lower carb food can often drop the BG numbers significantly. 100 points or more.

ETA: Which of the Fancy Feast "styles" are you feeding?

 

Fancy Feast chicken (classic) and Friskees special diet oceanfish. I have fed him the Friskees for years (only a teaspoon at morning and night) and the rest was dry. I've upped it to about a tablespoon morning and night (at shot time) and then a little bit before bed. He's getting about 1/4 - 1/2 cup of dry during the day to eat as he needs.

Should I test him again tonight (poor cat - his ears look like pincushions). Or wait and do in the morning before his shot?

 

if you want to give his ears a break you can leave him be if you plan on skipping the insulin tonight

fwiw, to help with the ears, make sure you pinch off the poke hole after getting your sample. i hold a cottonball on the inside of Mousie's ear while i'm doing the poke and then once i get my sample, i just fold the cottonball over her ear and hold it firmly for a few seconds. that stops the bleeding (think apply pressure) and helps minimize bruising (which is common in the beginning)

you can also use neosporin on their ears to help with the healing in the beginning. there is one with pain relief built into it that some people use too.

 

Poor guy, I feel bad for him. He has one white ear that got the brunt of the sticks tonight. The black ear is just so hard to see. If I wait on the insulin, will he be okay tonight? I'll be up all night worrying and he won't get any sleep either since I'll be checking on him.... Should I try one more stick in about 11pm? That would be 5 hours after I was supposed to give the dose. If I did, would I give him a partial dose if it was high (what exactly would be high)? So confusing...

If I wait until the morning, and it is still low, what do I do then?

 

he'll be fine tonight without insulin. better to be safe than sorry as the saying goes. our kitties didn't get diabetes overnight and many went quite a while without insulin before their diagnosis so it's ok. it's when you skip multiple shots that it becomes a problem. also, as to giving shots late, it depends on how flexible your schedule is. like if you gave it 5 hours later than normal, you'd have to give the next one as close to 5 hours late as possible too sooooooooo you could end up with one wacked out and potentially dangerous shot schedule by moving shots around too much. does that make sense?

if he's still low in the morning, you do the same thing, skip the shot and maybe do a few tests thru the day to collect data. if he is consistently low all day, that would be a sign that he may not need insulin at all anymore and we'd ask you to test over the course of the next several days to make sure. 14 days without needing insulin is considered in remission

 

That makes sense. I feel better. My husband is out of town and he's the one who usually can keep me from going off the deep end when it comes to things like this. I was in tears earlier when I couldn't get blood out of his ear and was on the 5th test strip. Luckily, Hardey is a good kitty and wasn't terribly upset.

I will wait until morning and do the shot then. What would be the range of numbers to look for to not give him the shot in the morning?

 

i'm gonna see if i can get some of the peeps from the lantus insulin support group to address tomorrow morning.

my initial thought is under 200, no shot, and if over 200, a shot but we need to figure out how much so let's see if we can get some input on that

 

Thank you. I haven't had a chance to check that area yet. My mind is swimming right now just from the stuff on this page.

 

Just a tip that might save you some strips.
Put the strip "almost all the way" the meter. Then poke his ear, and scoop the drop of blood off of his ear with a fingernail. Then push the strip the rest of the way in, let the meter beep, and take the blood off of your nail. Meanwhile, you can let him go and have your hands free.

 

If you increase the wet food and decrease the dry food, he may not need insulin anymore. You're already home testing so you can keep him safe with a food change.

 

I just tested again and it was 101.

There isn't a chance I'm doing it wrong is there? I followed the videos and have it calibrated for the right test strips...

 

most likely not.

do you have another kitty in the house? you can test them to see how well the meter is working (normal non diabetic cats will test under 100. mine test in the 40's to 60's)

or you can test yourself too

 

You can always try testing yourself. See what the reading is. Human normal for non-diabetics is usually somewhere 70-100 for a fasting BG. Non-fasting BG for non-diabetic should be <125.

 

Good idea! I'm sticking myself now. The things we will do for our babies...

 

120. Guess it's okay. Had to stick myself 5 times before I got enough blood. Ouch!

 

What size/gauge are your lancets?

 

A tip for black eared kitties - smear just a tiny bit of vaseline on the ear where you are going to poke. That helps the blood bead up and you can see it better. I also have one of those small LED flashlights or test in a room with really good overhead light.

 

Carl - it says 30 gauge on the packet. Came with the tester when I bought it.

Wendy - good idea. I'll give it a try. Will neosporin work?

 

If you have trouble getting blood with those lancets, you can get some that are slightly larger. 26 or 25 gauge are available (the lower the number, the bigger the diameter - sounds backwards, but that's how they size them). I had fits using 33g at first, and had a much easier time with the 26g.

 

Good to know, Carl. I've used up almost all of the ones I have, so I'll be buying more tomorrow. Do you use the shooter-thingee or just the lancet? Any suggestions on what type I should get?

 

You can use either one, and all brands are about the same...I used the lancet device when I first started, but lots of people just freehand with the lancet....the device is probably easier when you're first starting out

 

I never used the lancet device thingy, I free handed from the start because that's how the vet showed me how to do it. The way my vet said it was "can you sew on a button? Then you can do it this way." So in my case, I just got the lowest priced lancets I could buy at walmart which were Relion brand.

 

Many of us use the same lancet for multiple pokes. I would use the same lancet with Ennis 4 or 5 times.

I use the lancet in the lancet device, but I don't use the spring mechanism or the cover. I use the lancet device as a handle to give me a little more control because I have neuropathy in my hands. I prick the ear at a 45 degree angle as if I were doing a running stitch sewing.

 

Just tested. No food for 3 hours prior. 115 Assuming I shouldn't give shot. Am I correct?
Please tell me I can wait a few hours before testing again. It was NOT a good experience for Hardey this morning. He ate and flew under the bed. I may not see him for awhile. I hate this.

 

Yes, I would not shoot with 1 115 and since he did not eat much. lso, it would be better if you entered the AM preshot BG in the AMPS box. You entered the time. That box always has the BG at the regulat PS time. If you do not give insulin you just say 0 for dose. Yo use the Remarks column for dosing late (if applicable and other thinks like you are currently doing)

 

Thanks. I think I fixed it.
About how much should he be eating? The vet told me only 1 can of small food per day. I think I gave him about 1/3 of it.

When should I test again?

 

Typically a cat eats on 5.5 oz can a day or two 3 oz (Fancy Feast is 3 oz cans) a day.
I would test in an hour

 

A normal (non diabetic cat) sits around 40-130 so these numbers are great! If he can sustain them for 14 days then we consider remission.

But to help him get there, and since you arent giving insulin right now, I would stop the dry entirely. Leave a fresh can of wet out all night ...

Wendy

 

Thanks for the help. I only gave him a small handful this morning of dry to have after his wet food since I only gave him 2 TB. How often do you feed your cat wet food? I've always only used it as a treat. Do they get 1/2 a big can in the AM and then the other 1/2 at night? Do I break it up during the day? He's used to having food all day....

 

I free feed mine so its out all day. I put out a fresh can fanct feast in the morning, dinner and before bed. Sometimes at lunch if the morning food is all gone. Some members use timed feeders. Some members freeze it (out of the can) and let it defrost for the cat to eat later.

What weight is he and we can work out how much he needs.

Wend

 

Currently 22 pounds, but needs to be down to 15 - 18. He's a big cat, but has some extra weight due to special food for liver problems (now mostly resolved). Prob closer to 18. Someone else posted he should have about 318 calories (I think). Not sure if I got the number right.

 

That sounds about right, fancy feast is 85 a can roughly and that friskies is 172 I think.. http://www.catinfo.org/docs/FoodChartPublic9-22-12.pdf

But every cat is different, so I would with him every couple of weeks and adjust accordingly..
Wendy

 

So .... 3 1/2 cans of fancy feast a day or about 2 can of friskies? That seems like so much. I guess it isn't though. Thanks for the help.

 

Try it and see.. And if the weight doesn't come off like you want, you can adjust..

 

My Sophia had eaten all dry food when she became diabetic. We changed to FF all wet and tested her twice a day before we gave her the injection. After several months we noticed that she was in normal range and quite giving her insulin but stuck to the wet FF.

Research has shown that some cats will /just like people/ get diet controlled. I still checked her from time to time and she was OK. My Greulie also became a diabetic/her brother/ and the same thing happened. I started giving him only wet.

Of course not all the cats are the same but gthere are many who are diet controlled after quitting dry and eating only wet.My Sophia lived many many years after and died at 18 and her brother is still here and diet controlled.

Without this board I don't know what I would have done. Any question I ever had was answered.. I got an unbelievable amount of help... I was pretty panicky... you are never alone with this board and your friends here will be happy to help....when dh disagreed with me about what to do... I asked my friends here and he still tells the story that they gave him 'hell' because he did not want to test before giving the shots/which is very dangerous because of the lows.

 

Everything you said makes sense. Keeping my fingers crossed if I can get him off the dry, he won't need the shots. He lives FF chicken. Just licked his plate so clean that he almost took the paint off. Lol
I just have to figure out how much and when. I have a timed feeder that I've never used. Going to practice this week with it.

This site is a total Godsend. Would have last my mind yesterday without the caring people here.

 

We have a lost and found here. So if you ever do think you might lose your mind again, post here and we will send out a team to search for it. ;-)

 

Good to know!

 

I think a lot of outsiders would think we have all lost our minds lol.. crazy cat ladies (and a few guys)

 

Some people just don't get it... So glad you guys do.

 

You can add water to the canned food to make it last longer and keep it from drying out. Here's a great discussion about how much to feed that might help. Cats are generally pretty good at regulating their food intake and since you're now feeding low carb, that significantly reduces "over-eating" (cats generally over-eat on carby food because they're not getting enough protein or fat in their diet so they eat more, trying to make up for it).

 

Thanks for the info. I'm still trying to figure out how I'm going to do 2 whole cans of friskies or 3 cans of ff. Kitty will be very happy, I am sure.

I'm just going to start with 1/2 can of ff in the morning and see if he seems hungry later when I put some down (with water) and leave it out to see if he finds it. He's been very lazy lately and wants me to bring the food to him. I've noticed his back legs seem stiff. He's not walking weird or anything. He just has trouble lying down. Maybe arthritis? He is 12 after all.

 

That could be neuropathy which is nerve damage from high blood sugar. You could try giving him methylcobalamin for a month to six weeks to see if it clears it. You get it in most health food stores just make sure no xylitol or sugars in it, or buy the zobaline cat brand.

 

Didn't know there was such a thing. Are there any side effects I need to watch out for?

 

Methylcobalamin is a form of B-12, a water soluable vitamin that can help with diabetic neuropathy and pancreatitis (I think). Any excess will be excreted in the kidneys so you can not overdose your cat on this. On the other hand, why give too much only to have it flushed out in the urine? Recommended starting dose is 500 mcg (0.5mg) once a day.

Remember, no sugars or xylitol in the version for your cat.

The methyl form of the B-12 has been shown to help repair nerve damage in humans caused by excess glucose levels long term that result in the diabetic neuropathy. It can cross the blood barrier to get right to the nerves is my understanding.

 

Funny - I actually take B12 injections once a week for nerve neuropothy, not from diabetes though.

Thanks for the info. I'll pick some up. I know I'm overanalyzing my poor cat. He is probably ready to bite my face off. I just keep checking on him and every sound or noise I have to see if it's him. lol I read the letter from a cat to the owners. I can relate.