Best food to buy in Canada??

Hi,
We have a newly diagnosed cat named Oreo. We live in Canada and we were wondering if the fancy feast pate is the best. I see classic on most sites, but it doesn't look like we have the classic here. Is the pate the same? What types of Evo canned cat food is best? We do a combo of fancy feast pate and royal canin wet DM from the vet. When we had him only on the royal canin DM he didn't want to eat or only licked the gravy and he was losing weight.

Thanks

 

Hello and welcome from a fellow Canadian to you and Oreo. What is your name? There is a list of the majority of the canned foods available in North America here. You want anything under 10% carbs. The website http://www.catinfo.org is a good read. I feed my kitty raw foods and occasionally Wellness canned food. I believe the FF pate forms here are the same as the classic. All of the Evo foods range from 2-6% so they work too. The DM isn't good quality food. I think the first ingredient is liver which cats tire of. Just return it to the vet to get your money back and stick with off the shelf low carb wet.

 

Thanks for the info! What raw foods do you feed. My cat has never eaten anything like that. We are still trying to get the right dose of insulin for him and I will do a curve for the first time myself on Tuesday.
My name is Mel.

 

Hi Mel. I started feeding raw food on the recommendation of my vet. My other cat gets crystals and I needed a food I could feed them both. The one I use is this because I could get the lab analysis of their foods from them. It's the data that's need to find out the carb %. Canned food is good to, as long as it's low carb, but my kitties really like their raw food. And I like the results on them.

What insulin are you using for Oreo?

We do recommend home testing here. In fact, it's best to test before each shot to make sure it's safe to do so. Cats can go into remission (off insulin) so you want to know if that is starting to happen. Good luck with your curve on Tuesday. If you want any help with the results, just ask.

 

Hi,
Oreo is starting on caninsulin. I wanted the levemir or lantus, but my vet wanted to get him stable on this first. She said in her experience it seemed to be the best way to start. It doesn't seem to be the case on the forum. He is taking 1.5 units twice daily, but he is still high. He runs around 19 before his shot and around 13 4-6 hours later. The vet just wants to do the curve to make sure he hasn't had the smoygi effect (not sure if correct spelling). Poor Oreo also has a limp that the vet assures me is a small tear in his ACL in his left back leg that should heal in 4 to 6 weeks. I have been giving him 2500 mcg of Methyl B12 just in case it is neuropathy. It looks likely that he will be increased to 2 units twice daily of the caninsulin.
He is back to his bossy little self which is fantastic. Hopefully a little tweaking and he will get a lot better. With the new food he is now at 13.7 lbs. He normally is 14.7 and he went down to 14.4 lbs in about a week so the new addition of FF has really helped stop him from losing more weight.
He is meowing at me right now to come open the door a crack in -20 weather so he can smell the air!!!

 

Edit that He usually is 14.7 lbs and went down to 13.4 lbs and is now at 13.7 lbs.

 

I was guessing you'd say caninsulin. The "canin" part means it's for the dogs but it seems to be the most common thing prescribed in Canada. It's old school now. We started on caninsulin too but it didn't last the full 12 hours in Neko, more like 8-9. Your curve will tell you how well it's working on Oreo. I finally got a locum vet who got me started on Lantus, but I was the first one at the clinic to use it. The people here were a great help. There is a research based protocol described on the Lantus - Tight Regulation Forum that has the highest rate of remission - if that is what you want for Oreo.

Good to hear his weight is getting better and he's feeling better!

 

Caninsulin is a mixture of 2 different insulins which peak at different times. The vial must be rolled well to mix them evenly. It was developed for use in dogs and frequently is less effective in cats.

In Canada, you may purchase either Levemir or Lantus over the counter. Either of these may be used with your cat. Getting the insulin pens is the most economical way to get it in terms of price per unit and expiration. Kept on a stationary refrigerator shelf, the pens may be used to the end. A standard U-100 syringe is used to withdraw the insulin dose for the cat, not the pen needles.

 

One small correction to BJM's post. In Canada, the most economical way to buy Lantus of Levemir is a 5-pack of cartridges. Cartridges are like mini vials and are the refills to the pens. Cartridges are not available in the US. You can buy pens here too, but it costs more.

 

Thanks for all of the great advice. I am a pharmacist so I see folks come in to buy insulin quite often for their cats so I just assumed my cat would start on the lantus. I know we are way cheaper. Some people paid over 100 dollars for a 10 ml vial at the vet, but I am pretty sure we sell it for around 60. You are correct it comes in a 5 x 3 ml box of pen cartridges as 100 u/ml. My vet looks like she graduated recently and with honours so I was surprised she mentioned the caninsulin.
Oreo walked about ten feet this am with hardly any limp. It's a good day!

 

I believe the pre filled pens are the same price as the cartridges just not as environmentally friendly. I am pretty sure we have switched people and they paid the same. We give out the pens for the cartridges for free. I didn't think you could use a pre filled pen with a pen needle on a cat, but I noticed on the caninsulin site they have the caninsulin vetpen, but the vet didn't mention this to me.

 

In BC, I've heard of people paying close to $200 for a Lantus vial at a vet. :shock: It's around $70 here for the vial from the pharmacy and around $100 for the 5 pack of cartridges. Levemir costs a bit more. Caninsulin uses U-40 syringes and Lantus/Levemir use the U-100, so you would have to make that switch. The BD Ultra-Fine II, 3/10ml, 8mm length and 31G seem to be the best. You want something with 1/2 unit markings as we usually increment by .25U. Since you are a pharmacist you may be able to find needles other than the BD, but in Canada they seem to have the monopoly on 1/2 unit marked needles. The Terumo Thinpro get good reviews from those in the US. BD's are notorious for bubbles.

I hope you can get a good price on meter test strips too. That's the most expensive part of feline diabetes - I live close enough to the border I can go down and pick up some cheaper ones.

I am surprised how many even newer vets still talk about Caninsulin for cats. I'm not sure what they are teaching at university. But vets have to learn about a lot of different diseases and a lot of different animals. I know a couple of vets as friends, and they do have to do a lot of keeping up to new research. But they do Lantus for cats. Even fewer vets here know about using Levemir for cats, as it's an even newer development.

 

I have been using the one touch verio IQ glucometer. The strips are 75 bucks and I get ten percent off. When the vet did the curve they tested with the glucometer that they use as well and they said it was very accurate. I have wasted some but now I take the time to warm up his ear. He refused everything so now I just heavy breathe hot air on his ear. Crazy. Whatever works I guess. The needles I use are the caninsulin 28 gauge, but we do have the BD UF in the higher gauges at work. Did you notice a big difference in your cat reacting to the injection? If Oreo sees the needle he cries, but if he doesn't it's like it never happens not even a blip in his purring. My husband has trained him to go "on the ground" for a cat massage and this is when he does it and Oreo seems to have no clue. Do you prefill your syringes so they are at room temp or do you just wait till it warms up? I have been putting the syringe in my armpit.

 

My own vet using the Onetouch at her clinic and has compared it favorably a lot with lab results. There are some other glucometers than need a smaller blood drop (Bayer Contour) or the one I get from the US. I sometimes just rub Neko's ear before hand, or I put hot water in an old film canister and hold that against her ear. Other people put rice in a sock, tie the end, and microwave to warm and use that to warm the ear. Like you say - whatever works!

When I went to Lantus and the smaller gauge it did seem easier. The other thing is that if you look at the syringe closely, there is a bevel. If you insert with the bevel side down, it's easier on the cat.

For Lantus, it's not recommended to prefill the syringe for any length of time. But you can load it, do the blood test, feed and then shoot. I warm the syringe between my fingers.

 

How did the curve go?

Instead of a curve I usually recommend 3-4 tests a day- gives you a better picture of whats going on - especially when using a harsh insulin like caninsulin.

- always before the shot - this is mandatory as you don't want to shoot when too low. As a newbie this too low number is 200 but is reduced over time once you have the data to know if its safe.
- mid cycle - 5-7 hours after morning shot depending on your schedule. This is to see how low he is going. The low point "nadir" is what you base dose changes on since you don't want him dropping too low (under 50).
- before bed (2-3hours after Pm shot) to get an idea of what his overnight plans are. If this number is less than the pre shot test number you may want to set the alarm for a test a few hours later as this implies an active cycle.

Wendy

 

Thanks I really appreciate your help.
When you say test before the shot is that before food or after food. My vet is telling me to test after food. She said if he is around 360 give 2 units of caninsulin, if around 288 give 1.5 units and if 252 or less skip the shot. I was testing before food and had a reading of 223 and skipped the dose but then he was in the 300's later in the day so it seems to make sense to test him after his food. The curve was still high in the 1.5 units twice daily so now Oreo is on 2 units twice daily and his nadir was 118 so much better. He has been urinating and drinking water way less. He is in bed with his favourite toy and blanket purring away thank goodness.
Thanks for asking about the curve. I started at 5am to 5pm and at the fourth reading I felt like giving up, it really stressed me out. Then he went to sleep in his blanket and that helped his ear warm up and it was way easier. I was proud I did it, but extremely stressed and ate some chips and dill pickle dip! LOL

 

Test
Feed
Shoot

All within about 15 minutes for long acting insulins such as Lantus, Levemir, and ProZinc.

With more harsh insulin (ex Novolin) it is test, feed, wait 30 minutes, shoot, to make sure food is on board before the insulin hits as it can drop the cat very quickly. (And only lasts 6-8 hours)

 

Oh hey! Us beans (human beings) need our treats too! We all get stressed, especially at the beginning of this sugardance when we are still learning how to do things like the pokey pokey dance (ear/paw sticks for home testing).

It gets better and easier. We're very proud of you for completing your first curve. :RAHCAT :RAHCAT :RAHCAT

Do you use something to help warm up the ear first and get the blood flowing? A rice sock (couple tablespoons of rice or beans in the toe of a sock, microwave for 15-20 seconds to heat), pill bottle filled with warm water and held against the ear, rubbing the ear vigorously (my Wink absolutely loves to have his ears rubbed!), blowing your warm breath on the ear. All of these methods get the blood flowing better and make it easier to get that blood drop for testing.

Also, with time and more testing, the ears "learn to bleed", actually form more capillaries, it's called angiogenesis, so it becomes easier to get that blood drop in time. Plus, you get better at the routine, the routine becomes a routine, and you get calmer and less stressed.

I always like to recommend deep breathing exercises. Deep breath in, hold, release, deep breath in, hold, release, deep breath in, hold. release. Repeat as necessary for any stressful situation.

 

Royal Canin diabetic wet has 14.7% carbs as a % of total calories.
I am returning it to the vet and my husband is buying Evo wet food today. We were giving mostly FF low carb wet varieties with the RC diabetic wet only one can daily thank goodness. Now we will do a FF and Evo combo. Possibly we will switch to Evo completely. I want to see how he likes it and if it improves his coat.
I contacted the company by email asking why a diabetic cat food is so high in carbs- no reply so far. In fact when I asked about the carb % I received a customer survey about my experience without the answer yet so I told them and they replied with the above answer in the same afternoon.

 

I see by your signature that Oreo's limp is almost gone now. So good to see that note there.

How are his BG levels? No SS for us to look at. Hope the numbers are good.

You could always mix a bit of two different foods together, to sort of balance out the higher carb content one with a lower carb content one. Fancy Feast Turkey & Giblets is around 3% carbs so mixed in equal amounts with the Royal Canin 14% carb, you'd get something like 8.5% carbs. Not bad really.

It's just so nice to have a variety of flavors to choose from for our picky cats. Here's hoping that Oreo likes the Evo.

I remember when I was switching Wink from dry to wet food, and the only flavor he really liked was the Fancy Feast Turkey & Giblet. It took me months to get him to eat other flavors. He would often have a smorgasbord of 3-4 flavors to choose from. The whole time, I was worried that he'd go on a hunger strike and demand something else besides the T&G. Never happened, but I still worried.

 

Thank you everyone for all of your amazing advice. Oreo's limp is completely gone now. Thank you for noticing Deb and Wink. We now have the perch back up and no issue jumping to the top.
Oreo is insisting I open the window so he can smell the air- one catch is it is minus 22 Celsius. Brrrrrrr He is back to his normal self!

 

Hey Oreo! I think we're all ready for a bit of spring and a breath of fresh air. Unfortunately that groundhog saw his shadow and we have several more weeks before that spring air will happen.

Temp was 1 degree Fahrenheit this AM here in Massachusetts and we're supposed to get slammed with another snow storm on Thursday. ohmygod_smile

I'm more than ready to start playing outside in my garden again. First, we'll have to have all this snow melt and get through mud season in March. Eventually we'll get there and my kitties will be so happy to get let out on the screened in porch again, once the weather warms up.