My Kitty has diabetes :( scared, worried, stressed.

First off I love this cat! He has been my buddy for almost 13 years. I took him to the vet because I noticed his rear legs getting weak. They did a test and told me he has diabetes, they also took blood for testing but I wont get those results until Monday.

The insulin is VETSULIN, is this good stuff?

Sooo, they gave me syringes and insulin. Im very nervous about stabbing my cat every day He loves me and I don't want him to start to hate me. He is a very relaxed cat tho and hopefully he will adapt well.

They told me to start with 2 units twice a day for 2 weeks and then bring him in for a glucose check. Always during/after he eats, if he doesn't eat then don't give it to him.

They also said food twice a day for a total of 2/3 a cup a day. This seems very little to me but I will do what they say.

My main question, they told me about a food called EVO, but there is many different versions. Does anyone know which I should buy?

Im very concerned about how much it costs to keep him healthy every month. Does anyone have any tips on saving money?

Thanks you!

This is what I wake up to every day!

Hey NitroViper! Welcome to you and your new sugar dude. You are completely, 100% in the right place and the most important thing to do right now is to take a deeeeep breath and relax. It seemed like the end of the world when Theo was struck down with diabetes but it really wasn't. It's completely treatable and you're now surrounded by people who are all managing happy, healthy kitties on a daily basis.

Theo hasn't started to hate me for injecting him yet! I use Lantus which doesn't require any fancy feeding habits (other insulins may vary and everyone's gonna wanna know what kind you're using and whether you're going to home test, so get ready for the questions ) so I just load up his needle then I put down his food and when he hops over to eat, I pinch up some fur and give him a poke. All I get is an annoyed mew when I pinch up his fur - insulted, not injured.

OH OH OH!!! NUISANCE'S BRUDDER!!! Oh I just love that face...

NOW, first....BREATHE! ...and BREATHE again! Diabetes is VERY manageable! No your kitty isn't going to hate you, he'll quickly learn the 'sugar dance' right along with you...you'll dance together well! KT was our first diabetic - we've been shooting him for nearly 3 years, he's right here beside he hollerin' for loving and foods. We adopted Dakota knowing he was diabetic, I started poking him with tests and needles the day he arrived, he slept between us last night. Sound like they hate me? Nope! In fact, they come get me if I'm late!

Few questions/comments:

What kind of insulin did they give you? It could be Humulin/Novalin N, ProZinc, PZI, Lantus, Levimer or Cannisulin. When we arrived, I didn't even KNOW there were different kinds!

Sounds like you're not home testing yet - there's no sense in paying the vet to do tests! You wouldn't give a human child insulin without first checking to be sure it's safe would you? Shouldn't be any different just because our 'kids' have 4 legs. We use human meters - no they're not calibrated for animals but it's fine. Your vet may insist that you need to use an AlphaTrakII pet meter...it's very costly, the strips are EXPENSIVE and only available when your vet has them in stock AND they're open! With human meters, we can run to the store and get more...

We all live feline diabetes 24 hours a day - you'll find a HUGE amount of experience and knowledge here.

BIG HUGS! WELCOME AGAIN!

Thanks for the reply, I added VETSULIN to my original post. I couldn't even fathom thinking about putting him down, he is just to happy and purrs and looks at me with those eyes lol.

He still goes up and down the stairs pretty good and jumps on my bed to sleep with me at night. His rear legs are deff wobbly tho. Are they going to get better/stronger? Is he going to get better? Is there like a percentage somewhere how well cats do on insulin?

I don't plan on doing testing at home since the vet said its not necessary? He said for the first few months he will check him periodically and adjust the dose accordingly.

Id like to know what this EVO cat food is tho so I can go buy him some today.

I cant believe I gotta stab my kitty with a needle tonight :'(

What do people do with old needles? Disposal I mean.

Can I use a needle twice a day then throw it away? I need to save as much money as possible since I am on disability.

Thanks!

Welcome! The EVO they're talking about is EVO Cat and Kitten dry food which has about 8% carbs. It's very expensive so unless your kitty is really hooked on dry food the best thing to do is get him on wet food like Fancy Feast, Friskies or others that are low carb. Make sure it's the pate style, not the gravy. Dry food is unnatural for cats and is usually high in carbs, some as high as 40%, very bad for diabetic cats! A good number of cats go into remission with the right low carb wet food, good insulin, home testing, exercise, and weight control. That's what happened to my Dusty so you can easily achieve good glucose regulation for you kitty too!

NitroViper said:

Thanks for the reply, I added VETSULIN to my original post. I couldn't even fathom thinking about putting him down, he is just to happy and purrs and looks at me with those eyes lol.

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Thanks for adding that!

He still goes up and down the stairs pretty good and jumps on my bed to sleep with me at night. His rear legs are deff wobbly tho. Are they going to get better/stronger? Is he going to get better? Is there like a percentage somewhere how well cats do on insulin?

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This is diabetic neuropathy and can clear with good insulin support. You can also add 'Zobaline' to help support that too.

I don't plan on doing testing at home since the vet said its not necessary? He said for the first few months he will check him periodically and adjust the dose accordingly.

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PLEASE PLEASE don't give insulin without knowing if it's safe to give it. If I wasn't hometesting, I would have killed KT LONG LONG AGO. It's better to be too high for many hours than HYPO for a minute - hypo kills...hypo causes blindness..hypo causes brain damage...PLEASE reconsider this. Your vet is treating your baby like a 'sub human'...MY cats are 4-legged fur persons and deserve the same consideration as any other insulin user. If your cat responds to insulin like KT, all your vet will say if something bad happens is "sorry....". It's not hard, it's not expensive - saves a LOT of VET DOLLARS too! We can teach you to test, it's really no big deal, just different. There's a good chance your vet only knows how to test by drawing veinous blood and doesn't KNOW about ear testing!

Id like to know what this EVO cat food is tho so I can go buy him some today.

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EVO is mostly sold online altho' there are stores in larger metro areas that carry it. www.evopet.com

I cant believe I gotta stab my kitty with a needle tonight :'(

What do people do with old needles? Disposal I mean.

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It's according to your state laws - Oklahoma laws say just put them in a COLORED plastic container with screw-on lid and throw away with regular garbage. I have a needle cutter that snips off the needle end making them no longer "sharps". Texas law says 'Sharps Containers' and bio-hazard disposal. I know there's a website that tells all the laws but I can't remember it right now... :roll:

Can I use a needle twice a day then throw it away? I need to save as much money as possible since I am on disability.

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There's lots of other ways to cut costs rather than reusing needles. Each time a needle is used, it's edges get ragged - that second shot will have a much duller end. It can also contaminate your second dose of insulin because of the lubricant in the syringe barrel. Saving dollars testing will more than pay for more needles!

Welcome again! Please tell us your name and your sweet baby's name!

I really appreciate the replies!

My name is Jason and my cats name is Wease, short because when he was small he was weaseling into everything lol.

I been reading the forums and it seems so stressful and so much work testing every few hours and cats doing this cats doing that it's very discouraging, almost overwhelming that I wont be able to do it.

If the cat was high, or low I adjust the insulin shot? That part scares me because he said 2 units twice a day right when he eats.

I plan on doing the feeding and injection at 10am and 10pm, what if I am not around during that hour once in a while? Say I have to leave at 9am, or I wont be home till 12am? How do I go about that issue?

Im about to go buy the EVO cat/kitten because they have it in the store. I want to get him use to that and then maybe switch to wet. Is the wet cheaper? EVO is $21 for 6.6 lbs.

Im afraid I am going to mess up and he will suffer :'(

I feel like a wuss for being a guy! but he is like a part of me. Is there any other guys on here?

Testing at home is a learning process and can be pretty intimidating... Theo was diagnosed very recently and while I had initially planned on testing him at home, my vet discouraged me. She said Theo would go distrustful of people and wouldn't let anyone touch him. Since my few attempts had been so graceless and irritating to both of us, I gave up and stopped testing at home, determined to let the vet check him every week or two.

Yesterday I woke up with a weird feeling that I should test Theo. He wasn't due in at the vet for another week, he wasn't behaving oddly at all, I just had this impulse to do it. I tested him at a 74 which, on human meters, is right square in the middle of the happy zone. Knowing that he was so low without a shot, I did not administer his insulin. If I HAD... it's possible I would have gone to school, done my classes, gone to work, and come home hours later to find a deceased Theo. That evening when I tested him before his second shot, he was at 34. On our meters below 40 indicates you need to start watching for an hypoglycemic incident. Had I not tested, I would have injected him and gone to bed. In the best case scenario, I would have woken up to find a cat in crisis. Instead I knew to give him small amounts of gravy and watch his results. By 1 am he had climbed back up to 40 and I was able to go to sleep.

I think if I hadn't been home testing last night, the best case scenario would have been $1000 in emergency vet bills. Instead it cost me... a few cents worth of strips and a 50 cent can of a grilled cat food. Theo is healthy and happy right now and while he doesn't want me messing with his ears, he's full of love. Whether you test at home is obviously your own decision, but I am so grateful I decided to start checking last night.

Jason,

The best thing to feed your diabetic cat Wease would be Friskies or Fancy Feast wet cat food. The pate styles are best as they are low carb which is best for the diabetic kitty.
Go to Walmart, I am assuming you are in the US and buy a really cheap glucometer such as the Relion Micro or Confirm, the test strips are very cheap.
Never reuse needles.
Also Vetsulin is not an not a good insulin for the cat. Most people here use Prozinc, Lantus or Levermir. I would not give him 2 unit twice a day to start with that may be to much,maybe start with 1 unit , you did not say what his numbers were at the vet. You must be able to test him when you give him that insulin as I do think that is a very short acting insulin but I am not sure about that.
I would feed him more than twice a day that is simply not enough. I will try to get you some more help as I am not familiar with Vetsulin, not many people use it any more
Welcome to the board, your kitty is very, very handsome. I pulled up a user guide for this insulin for you to read. Just click on the topic below.

viewtopic.php?f=19&t=302


Terri

I don't know if I can do this.... seems like way to much info all at once. Everyone has a diff way of doing things and if I kill my kitty ill die!

I just got him some EVO food to start with and to get into a routine. Ill learn as I go but I am very afraid to give him 2 units like the vet said. He didn't tell me his readings.

My cat seems perfectly normal except for his legs are weak. If I start giving him insulin and he suddenly gets worse its going to be a nightmare...

Should I watch him very closely after I give it to him tonight?

Jason,

Where are you located? Its okay to go ahead and give him the Evo, that's fine. We don`t want you to get overwhelmed. Are you in the US?
I would not however give him 2 units to start. I am trying to get you some help, unless someone else pops in that knows that insulin. I would however if you are here in the US go to Walmart and get a cheap glucometer like I said, such as Relion Micro or Confirm.
You and kitty will be fine, there are many people here to help.

Terri

Sorry, we don't mean to overwhelm you. We are trying to help. We're concerned that you are going to give a larger than suggested dose of an insulin that is not popular here. Would you consider starting with one unit until you get acclimated? Our thinking is it is better to start at a low dose and raise it slowly rather than start at a higher dose and run the risk of it being too much insulin. We have a saying "better too high for a day than too low for a minute". Once you give the insulin, you can't get it out of the cat!

How about getting the shot down. (it's best with Vetsulin to feed him some first, make sure he is eating and keeping it down and then give the shot.). Then, give him another snack and shoot him while he is eating that. Most cats don't even notice while their heads are deep into their dinners.

We want to help you keep your boy safe, so we will continue to urge you to test him at home. Especially with Vetsulin, which can cause a fast, sharp drop and not last as long as other insulins, it is important to know what his numbers are.

I live in the US and Walmart is close. I will need to use this meter every time while he eats?

What if it reads real high? Give him extra insulin? and low don't give him any?

After reading that article you sent it says a cat's normal blood sugar ranges from 60-120. How high does a diabetic cats get?

Insulin lowers glucose correct? Id rather not give him any than get hypoglycemia. Is this why you recommend 1 unit?

Should I get a test kit in the morning and not give him insulin until then? Id rather not start it tonight before bed anyways.

Sorry for all the questions.

Jason,

Please ask questions, that's why we are here. I would not give him the insulin until you get the meter. You have no idea what his blood glucose levels are. So even 1 unit could be to much insulin.
Lets get the meter first and we can teach you how to test and see where he is at, how does that sound?
Yes insulin lowers the blood glucose levels. Did the vet show how to give the shots to Wease?

Terri

Hi Jason! Sorry...sure didn't mean to overwhelm you!

Yep, Wallyworld trip first - lots of people recommend the ReliOn brand 'Confirm' or 'Micro' meters. I iz one of those... The strips are $20/50. They also have the ReliOn Prime, strips are cheaper...fairly new meter. Some have had issues with them, others don't. I think Sue has a handy dandy shopping list she'll post for you...

BREATHE! It's very doable!

NitroViper said:

I live in the US and Walmart is close. I will need to use this meter every time while he eats?

You need to test him every time before you give a shot, so you will know it is safe to give the dose you are thinking about. We can help with that.

What if it reads real high? Give him extra insulin? and low don't give him any?

We suggest you not shoot if he is under 200 in the beginning. You give a shot every 12 hours, not more than that, at least in the beginning. Once you start to see his numbers, this will all make more sense.

After reading that article you sent it says a cat's normal blood sugar ranges from 60-120. How high does a diabetic cats get?

We don't like to see cats in the 400-500 range for highs or below 40-50 for lows. Generally we consider a cat well regulated if they range from the mid 200s at preshot to double digits in the middle of the cycle, but not below 40, which is hypo range.

Insulin lowers glucose correct? Id rather not give him any than get hypoglycemia. Is this why you recommend 1 unit?

Yes. We like to start low and go slow, increasing as your home testing dictates.

Should I get a test kit in the morning and not give him insulin until then? Id rather not start it tonight before bed anyways.

That's what I would do. Have we given you a shopping list?

Sorry for all the questions.

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The only question we don't like is the one you don't ask. Everyone who replies to you is paying it forward for help they received when they were new and scared.

Jason,
I'm Rick and I also felt pretty overwhelmed at first but it's really not bad at all. You will basically set a dosage, say 1 unit, then you test once in the morning and once at night before you give the injection. If his glucose isn't too low you inject and feed him. You can feed him several small meals a day, you're not restricted to just twice a day or anything like that. You can post your readings here if you think they're too low and someone will chime in to help you. After a few days if his glucose numbers stay high you can ask for advise here and someone will tell you to raise the dosage a little bit. Eventually his numbers will stabilize and you'll notice them dropping, as they do you will also drop the dosage. Really simple... Test in the morning, inject, and feed. Feed several times a day. Test in the evening, inject and feed.

You can feed Evo for now, it's one of the better dry cat foods with low carbs but eventually you want to get him on wet food.

I feel like a wuss for being a guy! but he is like a part of me. Is there any other guys on here?

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Jason, although we are grossly outnumbered probably 100-1, there are some guys that post on the board.
Also, it seems for the most part that there are a lot of "guys" in the background that help out with the treatment routine at home. The ladies seem to be the ones that do the majority of the posting.

One step at a time. Don't let it all overwhelm you.
And nobody here thinks you're a wuss. :lol:
I understand completely how you feel that Wease is a part of you. Bob was the same for me. And as you move forward with this, the bond between you and Wease is only going to grow stronger.

You found a great place full of incredible people. Welcome to the family.

Carl

As Bob said there are only a couple of us guys here. Just stay calm and relaxed and do not rush things.

I think im getting overwhelmed because I also ask people in person what I should do, listen to the vet, listen to the forum. I should call around and get other vet opinions and tell them what I've learned from the forums and other people.

I feel its a very generic telling an owner to feed twice a day, 2 units of insulin twice a day, bring him back in 2 weeks for a test and that's that...

The vets assistant told me he had a diabetic cat and once they got the dose right he fed it twice a day and same does twice a day. No in home testing and the cat lived 6 more years. I also met a lady buying the cat food today, she said her sister has a diabetic cat and she just gives him a dose twice a day and he had it for years. She doesn't even regulate the food.

It's so confusing that Im not sure what to do. You guys seem very smart and have a lot of experience, that's why I decided to post.

I really feel like my head is going to explode as Wease lays on my lap looking as happy as ever.

Is it ok to wait till tomorrow or tomorrow night to give the first dose of insulin? He should be fine 1 more day I would think. I just want to learn as much as possible before I go gun ho.

Im afraid im over complicating things, the cost of all this might be to much for me tho, the test meter is cheap but those test trips are pricey, 35 for 100. almost enough for 3 months.

Insulin
$80 10ml doc says it will last 2 months.
$40 for syringes 100 count, enough for 3 months
$50 for 15lbs of cat food, dunno how long that will last and 3/4 a cup a day.
$35 for 100 test strips again 3 month supply.

That's $205

syringes
test strips
=$25 a month

Cat food probably = $50 a month

Insulin = $40 a month

So we got

Pay $115 /for 1 month
then pay
$90 /for 2 months

I know I cant afford that... omg im gunna be sick!

Yes, you can wait one more day before starting the insulin, Jason.

I feel its a very generic telling an owner to feed twice a day, 2 units of insulin twice a day, bring him back in 2 weeks for a test and that's that...

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I agree, very generic. However, I have talked to a few local vets since Bob was diagnosed to try to understand why they advise "generically" if they do. What I have found is that a lot of vets don't feel like the caregivers will go to the lengths that "we" do here. They think that if someone is told up front that they will need to home test, and change the diet and try to manage things at home, that they might instead just choose to have their kitties put to sleep because they will be overwhelmed by it all. All I remember thinking when my vet said "Bob has diabetes" was "WHAT? I didn't know cats could even be diabetic!"
I had a good deal of experience with wildlife rehab, so giving shots or using a glucose meter didn't freak me out. And changing to canned food didn't present a problem because all I had to do was convince two dry-food only cats to switch. Both thought they'd died and gone to heaven when I plopped down the bowls of canned food, so that was easy.

The 2u dose sort of confuses me though. I like to point people towards the AAHA guidelines for feline diabetes that seem to call for a starting dose of 1u twice a day for most cats. I think the dose guidelines are on the fourth page down:
http://www.aahanet.org/PublicDocuments/AAHADiabetesGuidelines.pdf
It can be a "weight-based" calculation, and it can be altered if the vet sees something else strange in the bloodwork, but most cats would seem to fit the "1u" or even less, twice a day mold.

Can you ask your vet how he determined that 2u twice a day was the "right dose"? Ask him if he uses the AAHA guidelines?

I believe that Vetsulin is a "U40" insulin. So that 10ml vial has 400 units of insulin in it. Even if you gave Wease 2u twice a day, that's 100 days' worth, so a vial should last a little more than 3 months. I'm also thinking that the dose will probably be lower than that, so as long as the expiration date is beyond 2 months away, the vial could last at least 3 or 4 months. That will lower your expected costs.

Thanks for the reply Carl, Tomorrow is a Saturday so I am not sure if they are even open. I feel comfortable using the weekend to do a lot of research and waiting for Monday to start him on insulin. He seems healthy and happy, I doubt he will get worse in 2 full days.

If I wait till Monday I will also get the blood tests back to see if anything else is going on. On the paperwork it says "He appears to have diabetes and possibly some other organ diseases." Ummm other organ diseases? Im not sure why he even put that there...

The paper says glucometer shows blood glucose is Hi. He didn't even put a reading to show how high.

NitroViper said:

I think im getting overwhelmed because I also ask people in person what I should do, listen to the vet, listen to the forum. I should call around and get other vet opinions and tell them what I've learned from the forums and other people.



Insulin
$80 10ml doc says it will last 2 months.
$40 for syringes 100 count, enough for 3 months
$50 for 15lbs of cat food, dunno how long that will last and 3/4 a cup a day.
$35 for 100 test strips again 3 month supply.

That's $205

syringes
test strips
=$25 a month

Cat food probably = $50 a month

Insulin = $40 a month

So we got

Pay $115 /for 1 month
then pay
$90 /for 2 months

I know I cant afford that... omg im gunna be sick!

Click to expand...

Don't worry, we can help you save money. I had two diabetic cats at one time and spent less than $100 per month.

Insulin - a vial of insulin will last a lot longer than 2 months. The biggest issue with the vial is because cats use such a small dose, the insulin will become ineffective long before you use all of it. However, if your vet prescribes either Lantus or Levimer, as for a prescription for the pens instead of a vial. The initial cost is more than a vial, however, since you have 5 pens and they are packaged in smaller amounts than a vial, you are able to use almost every drop. One pack of 5 pens will give you enough insulin to last almost a year.

Since you live near a Walmart, you can buy the Relion brand of meter/test strips, syringes and lancets. I have used all of these and highly recommend them. A box of 100 syringes will cost less than $15.

I feed my cats canned Friskies. They eat a about 1 1/2 cans a day. Even at $.50 per can, my food costs are about $23 per month. Usually I can find it on sale so it really costs less.

So your costs come out to:

Insulin (Lantus pkg of pens) $225 / 9 = $25 per month This is a conservative estimate, a box will probably last longer. Also on the Lantus' website, there is a coupon for $25 per pen so a package will be $125.

Syringes $15 / 3 = $5 per month
Test strips (Relion meter) $39 pkg 100 / 3 = $13 per month
Food (Canned Friskies) $23 month
Lancets (Relion brand box of 100) $5 / 3 = $1.70 month

Total monthly costs = approx. $68 per month.

Hometesting will also save you money be eliminating the unneeded trips to the vet just to have your cat's glucose levels read.

See if you can get a copy of the lab results. There are some folks here that are pretty good at explaining what all the numbers mean. Certain values might reveal if there is something going on beyond just diabetes.
You might have mentioned it earlier and I might have missed it, but how old is Wease and what's his current weight?

I really appreciate the help on prices I will look into all that. That makes me feel better a lot!

Wease is almost 13 years old and 12.5 lbs. He did weight much more. I will ask for a print out of the lab test for sure! I paid for the full blood test that shows everything.

Is it ok to wait till Monday night to start insulin? I just read this thread http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=94948#p1017295 and since he only did a test inhouse while my cat was stressed shouldn't I wait for the test results incase its not a thyroid or something else first? Then I can ask him about the pens.

If the paperwork says his glucose was "HI", that usually means it's over 600...which is high, but if there's a possibility that there are other things going on, it's important for you to know exactly what you're dealing with.

Wease didn't become diabetic overnight, so waiting a few days isn't going to make any difference, and you'll be better prepared if you slow down, get your wits about you and learn everything you can.

The question of "who do you listen to"? is a big one here...All we can say is that the people here live and breathe feline diabetes 24 hours/day, 7 days a week, 365 days a year. Your vet MIGHT have 2 cats in his practice that are diabetic, and there's just no way a vet can keep up with the latest treatments for every disease, for every type of animal they see. Most vets see more dogs with diabetes than cats, and just assume they can be treated the same. They can't.

The costs..yes..start up costs are high, but manageable. I use Lantus insulin (a vial is about $200 but will last for 6 months if handled correctly) or you can ask for a prescription for the Solostar pen. The pens come in boxes of 5, and if your vet will write you a prescription for the Solostar, have him write it for ONE pen...You may or may not find a pharmacy willing to split open a box, but it's worth the effort to call around. Target stores, Costco, Sams and hospital pharmacies seem to be the places I hear of that are most likely to sell one pen at a time.

You can get the Lantus Savings Card but you must fill out the info and be over 18 or the caretaker of a child. They don't cover cats. Not all pharmacies will take it, but it's free and it sure can't hurt to try! That could bring your cost down to $25 per pen for a total of 6 refills.

Here's the Getting Started List
1. Meter ie Walmart Relion Confirm or Micro.(about $15)
2. Matching strips (about $36 for 100 for the Confirm/Micro...but once you get good at testing, you can switch to the Prime and those strips are only $9 for 50)
3. Lancets - little sticks to poke the ear to get blood . new members usually start with a larger gauge lancet such as 28g or 29g until the ear learns to bleed. Optional - lancing tool.
4. Cotton balls to stem the blood
5. Neosporin or Polysporin ointment with pain relief to heal the wound
6. Mini flashlight (optional) - useful to help see the ear veins in dark cats, and to press against
7. Ketone urine test strips ie ketodiastix - Important to check ketones when blood is high
8. Sharps container - to dispose of waste syringes and lancets.
9. Treats for the cat - like freeze dried chicken
10. Karo syrup/corn syrup or honey if you dont have it at home - for hypo emergencies to bring blood sugar up fast
11. A couple of cans of fancy feast gravy lovers or other high carb gravy food- for hypo emergencies to bring blood sugar up fast

Walmart Relion syringes are about $13 for 100...you want the 3/10cc 31 gauge, 8mm syringes with half unit markings. Not all syringes have half unit markings, so be sure to ask..and some Walmarts have been saying they don't have them...make them check because they do.

This REALLY is manageable! I'm on SSI as my only income, and I fed Friskies pate's and Fancy Feast Classics which are both affordable and available. They're also under 10% carbs and that's important.

Keep asking questions!! We've all been where you are at some point, and are just paying it forward for the help we got when we were scared, worried and stressed

I'm a little late on joining in on the conversation, but I wanted to point you to this document I wrote up regarding the cost of managing feline diabetes. In fact, I was talking with my brother last week about what it really worked out to and it's only costing about $30 extra a month now to treat Mikey's diabetes (a year and a half in) accounting for the syringes, insulin, and test strips (excluding species-appropriate food). This is about $1-2 a day, depending on how much I test (you do need to test much more in the beginning, so it will be slightly higher when first starting out and closer to around $3 a day). Mikey only has to go to the vet's about once a year for an annual check-up, which is more for my own piece of mind than for him actually needing to go. :lol:

As others have pointed out above, the best chance for Wease is a good insulin and a low carb, wet food diet. Once you have those two thing down, along with home-testing (which we can help with), everything becomes much more manageable. Wease might even be one of the numerous cats here that achieves remission (not needing insulin), which will also make things that much less expensive for you. ;-)

Keep asking questions, keep asking us to repeat ourselves or clarify what we're saying if necessary. "This is a marathon, not a sprit" and we've all started where you're at so we know how overwhelming it can be at first. :YMHUG:

Hi Jason,

Glad to see another guy posting on here. Dont worry about feeling like a wuss around us, I cant speak for evryone here but I have absolutely no shame admitting that I am a super wuss when it comes to my kitties. Come to think of it, I'm a wuss when it comes to any kitties. I cant even read the posts about the GA kitties, I bawl my eyes out every time I try.

Oh ya....almost forgot to mention....you are pretty lucky to be waking up to that sweet face everyday.

Well sign me up for the super wuss when it comes to my kitties club lol

I really appreciate all the support, It's the only thing keeping me going. Reading and reading all these threads about people reading their cats levels multiple times a day and not knowing what to do, It's kind of making me feel worse. Making me feel my chances are very low. Waiting till Monday to start insulin is bugging me tho, knowing my kitty is sick and weak. He acts like there is nothing wrong tho. He still jumps up on the bed and chair, its just watching him so weak compared to before.

He isn't liking the new cat food tho, I fed him once last night and once this morning, he eats less than a hand full. I mix it with the old stuff not trying to do it so fast. I know if I buy wet food tho he will think its heaven lol.

Im still confused about dosing levels.

I wish there was a thread that says what to do in certain situations, Like a basic What if thread, or basic care thread.

Say my cats level was 600, im still not sure what the danger areas are yet. Does that mean I give him more insulin than normal?
If it was 300 do I give him 1 unit, 2 units so it doesn't drop below danger level?
What if say 450, do I give him so many units and a half?
If its 120 do I give him none even tho he hasn't had a shot in 12 hours?

Is there a general number 1 unit will bring it down? Say if it was 600, and 1 unit brings levels down 200 and 2 units bring it down 400 and so on?

Sorry if it seems like I am learning slow, my mind is in some sort of day dream mode lately.

We do have protocols with the commonly used insulins that will give you some general guidelines. Unfortunately not for Vetsulin. You will need to get some levels and then let that data guide you.

We consider a car regulated if the are in the mid 200s at preshot and in double digits at their lowest point in the cycle, but not below 50, which is approaching hypo territory. We suggest a new diabetic not shoot a preshot under 200.

So, interpreting the data, for instance if he has a preshot of 400 and you give him one unit and he stays in the 300+ range all cycle, then you know one unit is too little and you raise the dose by .25 units. If he is at 250 at preshot and you give one unit and he drops below 50, then you know to reduce the next time. It does seem confusing at first, but we promise we will help.

All the people asking dose advice on this forum are new, like you. Once they get the hang of it, they post in the insulin forums and they have a good handle on how the insulin works in their cat and which dose to give. This forum is for new people and those with other Health questions. That's why you see so many people asking for dose advice.

People using Vetsulin and Humulin stay here as there are no active forums with people using those insulins.

Breathe. Enjoy your kitty. You are working very hard to help him, and we will help you. He didn't become diabetic in a day; it will take awhile for you to feel confident. The first step to feeling confident is home testing. Once you know where his levels are, you will be amazed how much more in control uou feel. You'll know that the dose you are giving is safe. And you'll know how the insulin is working.

Should I tell the vet I want a different insulin? Lisa and Witn was talking about Lantus pens. Wouldn't that be better and cheaper than Vetsulin, since it really has no data here. Should I change before I start?

My cats ears seem delicate, isn't he going to hate getting them poked twice a day? Seems like it would get very sore and painful after a while.

Im just hoping the blood tests come back normal Monday. What am I going to do if there is other problems included :'(

I made him a really fluffy bed with a heating pad under it on low, he seems happy

Lantus, Levemir or ProZinc would all be better than Vetsulin. They are more expensive - generally in the $100 range for a six months supply. But they work better and give you a better shot at getting him regulated or even in remission. There is also a compounded insulin called BCP PZI that is very similar to ProZinc. It is about $50 for a 6 month supply. Your vet has to write a prescription for it and call the compounding pharmacy.

Most cats don't seem to mind the ear poke. Especially when you give a treat each time you do it. There are few nerve endings in their ears; they seem to be more annoyed that you are doing something they didn't ask you to do (as opposed to petting or feeding etc. :mrgreen: ). It does take awhile to figure out how the process of warming the ear, poking and which treats are your cat's favorite, but thousands of people here have learned how. We can teach you. I'd suggest you get him ready by picking a place where you are going to test - on the counter, on a blanket or towel, maybe your fluffy pad etc. Take him there first, play with his ears, praise and give him a treat. The next time, warm his ears (a rice sack is a lightweight sock filled with raw rice and heated in the microwave until very warm or use a pill bottle filled with very warm water), give him a treat and let him go with praise. By the time you poke him, he should be used to the process and be waiting for the treat.

Let us know how we can help.

Are these pate foods ok?
http://www.walmart.com/ip/Friskies-...Canned-Cat-Food-5.5-oz-12-count-Cats/10535016

http://www.walmart.com/ip/Friskies-...Pleasers-Cat-Food-13-oz-12-Pack-Cats/22234387

Should I get the 5.5oz or 13oz? How much should I feed him a day. Twice a day and give him his shot right after or during?

When I choose to home test him do I test his ear, let him eat then give insulin?

Or do I let him eat, wait a bit test his ear then insulin?

I don't know how long it takes for these levels to go up and down.

What if he doesn't each very much at the time of insulin?

The Friskies pates are generally fine. You can check the food nutrition list at Cat Info for most US foods.

Roughly 0.5 to 1.0 oz food per pound of cat, divided into 2 or more feedings seems to work.

I'm feeding 15 cats, so I get the 13 oz cans and put down 4 am and pm.

Either one of those Friskies is fine...that's what I feed my civvies so if China gets into their food, it's still low carb.

As for which size, it's totally up to you. Wease will eat more than "normal" until he's better regulated because without insulin, their body can't use the nutrients so they eat lots more to try to compensate. They're actually starving although they're eating lots of food.

What is Wease's perfect weight? The formula for "how much to feed" is [13.6 X optimal lean body weight in pounds] + 70. You can look on the Food Chart to see how many calories are in each type of food.

Sue is a little off on her prices. I just bought a vial of Lantus not long ago and it was $180, but that will last 6 months if it's cared for properly. Levemir is about the same price. I'm not sure about ProZinc but the only place you can get it is from a vet. The others are available at any pharmacy. Go back to my prior reply and there's information about the Lantus Solostar Pen too, including the link to a Savings Card you may be able to use.

We test, feed and shoot all together, so you test (to make sure they're high enough to safely give insulin), feed (to make sure they're going to eat normally) and shoot, all within about 5-10 minutes.

Reading this page http://diabeticcatcare.com/protocol it says "Protamine zinc insulin (PZI) is, by far, the most effective form of insulin available for use in the diabetic cat today" is this true?

Sue and Oliver, you said PZI is $50 for a 6 month supply? is that the same stuff? That would be great for me but the vet has a hard time getting it?

I cant even express how much I appreciate all these suggestions. I promise you all I am reading them and trying to take the best info from them to suit my budget and plans to treat Wease.

Does anyone every talk on the phone about these issues? That may seem a little weird? lol

Chris & China said:

What is Wease's perfect weight? The formula for "how much to feed" is [13.6 X optimal lean body weight in pounds] + 70. You can look on the Food Chart to see how many calories are in each type of food.

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This confused me a little. I would guess his idea weight would be around 14 lbs. He is 12.5 right now and seems skinnier than he has ever been.

I know money is an issue for you. You might want to try contacting Diabetic Cats in Need to see if they might be able to help you.

Here is their information on How do I get Lantus less expensively?

Personally, if there was any way to do it, I'd not start giving insulin until I had one that was recommended here. Why spend the money on Vetsulin if you're going to switch? BUT, it's also important to try to get Wease's diabetes under better control. The worry at those high numbers is DKA, which is very expensive to treat and not always successful. (Which makes testing for ketones very important right now)

Where are you located? It might be possible that another member is close enough that could help you with the pens. Just thinking out loud here.

Edited to Add...if 14lb is his ideal weight, then it's 13.6 x 14 (190.4) + 70...so a total of 260 calories per day. He may need more though because of the diabetes not being under control right now. You can feed multiple times per day as well, not just with shots. Small meals is actually better for the pancreas to heal.

Once you're actually giving insulin, you want to take food up 2 hours before shot times though, so the tests aren't influenced by food

If you click on the pic, it will be larger

So I estimate 8oz a day. That's around 280 calories. Don't them carbs seem high? 6 to 10 on that list.

Walmart only has the poultry pleasers and variety pack.

I don't see poultry pleasers on the food nutrition list but it cant be that far off.

Do I really need to be this particular as long as I am close? I mean anything has to be better than the shape he is in correct?

I think you mean Poultry Platter and it's on the list at 9% carbs, 187 calories per 5.5oz can (I buy a lot of Friskies and haven't seen any called Poultry Pleasers)

Anything under 10% is fine. What you feed does make a difference since higher carbs means having to give more insulin. It's the same as a human with diabetes. The first thing they tell you is to get on a low carb diet. Some cats are very carb-sensitive, others not so much, but until you're testing and feeding, there's no way to know how sensitive Wease is. Some cats actually do better at higher carbs...but some see a big difference going from 2% to 4% ...it's a matter of ECID (Every Cat Is Different)

ProZinc is a good insulin for cats, as is Lantus or Levemir. There's no way to know if your cat will do better on one versus another. All I can say is that Lantus is the only insulin that has a proven protocol that's been published in veterinary journals as effective on getting as many as 84% of cats off the insulin within 6 months.

Poultry Pleasers is what the website says. Im actually going to look at walmart in a few minutes and get him some since he doesn't want this EVO food. I kinda mix it together slow at first. He has always got sick with wet food because he eats it to fast.

I will try to feed him 4oz in the am and 4oz in the pm for now and see how that goes till Monday.

The case marked Poultry Pleasers is a combo pack of 2 varieties of Friskies poultry pates - Turkey and Giblets, and Mixed Grill.

Classic Pate Mixed Grill: Meat By-Products, Water Sufficient For Processing, Poultry By-Products, Liver, Chicken, Rice, Artificial And Natural Flavors, Salt, Calcium Phosphate, Guar Gum, Added Color, Potassium Chloride, Choline Chloride, Carrageenan, Magnesium Sulfate, Taurine, Thiamine Mononitrate, Vitamin E Supplement, Zinc Sulfate, Ferrous Sulfate, Niacin, Calcium Pantothenate, Vitamin A Supplement, Copper Sulfate, Manganese Sulfate, Menadione Sodium Bisulfite Complex (Source of Vitamin K Activity), Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Riboflavin Supplement, Vitamin B-12 Supplement, Biotin, Folic Acid, Vitamin D-3 Supplement, Potassium Iodide.
Classic Pate Turkey & Giblets Dinner: Meat By-Products, Water Sufficient For Processing, Poultry By-Products, Turkey, Poultry Giblets, Fish, Rice, Artificial And Natural Flavors, Salt, Guar Gum, Calcium Phosphate, Added Color, Potassium Chloride, Carrageenan, Magnesium Sulfate, Taurine, Choline Chloride, Thiamine Mononitrate, Vitamin E Supplement, Zinc Sulfate, Ferrous Sulfate, Niacin, Calcium Pantothenate, Copper Sulfate, Vitamin A Supplement, Manganese Sulfate, Menadione Sodium Bisulfite Complex (Source of Vitamin K Activity), Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Riboflavin Supplement, Vitamin B-12 Supplement, Biotin, Folic Acid, Vitamin D-3 Supplement, Potassium Iodide.

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Poultry Pleasers is what the website says

Click to expand...

Oh..yeah I see what you mean. That's the name of the 12 pack since the flavors inside are all "poultry" flavors, like chicken and turkey. The individual cans are Mixed Grill or Classic Pate Turkey & Giblets

The Mixed Grill is 11% carbs, 171 calories per 5.5 oz can, and the Turkey & Giblets is 8% carbs and 187 calories per 5.5 oz can

I have asked someone to respond re the cost and exact pharmacy for the BCP PZI. We have several people on the PZI forum using it.

As far as insulin, as someone wise once said, the best insulin is the one that works for your cat. And unfortunately, there is no way to tell that before giving it. But Lantus, Levemir and ProZinc are all milder (no big drops) and last longer than Vetsulin (12 hour cycles instead of the average 8 with Vetsulin and people have success using them here.

You can certainly pick someone and send them a private message (it's the little PM button on the left hand bottom of everyone's post). And they can give you general info like diet or home testing tips. No dosing info is allowed by private message. As we are not vets, and our posts are peer reviewed (thanks, Chris, didn't realize I was low on the cost for Lantus), it is necessary for dose advice to be given only on the forum. And truefully, although it is overwhelming to get lots of replies, something someone says may be easier to understand than the way another person says it. In the beginning, hearing things more than once, in a little bit different way, can be very helpful.

I bought BCP PZI in November for Bob. The 10ml vial cost $50 and that included overnight UPS delivery. Your vet would need to call them and give them the prescription info, then they'll speak to you to get your CC info and shipping address.
If your vet gave you U40 syringes, you can use them. Have him specify that he wants the U40 PZI when he calls in the 'scrip.

Here is the contact info -
http://www.bcpvetpharm.com/contact.htm

Carl

My vet gave me monoject u-40 1/2ml

29g x 1/2" syringes.

I just got wease the wet food and he ate it like no tomorrow lol. Only gave him 1/4 a can of the 5.5oz and some of the evo food mixed in. I don't want to waste that food since I just bought it yesterday.

I'm not positive about EVO but most companies will accept food if you return it. Just say he won't eat it.

Glad he is entusiastic about the wet low carb!

So I have to make a decision before I talk to my vet Monday, Lantus or BCP PZI. Lantus has pens but BCP PZI doesn't? Im mostly worried about shelf life now and don't want to waste any.

Im going to call every vet in town Monday and tell them my concerns and maybe atleast 1 will listen to me. The one that listens is the one ill stick with

BCP PZI comes in a vial so you use needles with it, just like other insulins. It usually lasts 6 months if you keep it in the frig.