LOW numbers with Robbie...

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RobbiesMom

RobbiesMom

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OK you are all very good at this - just tested Robbie at 10pm and it was 62 - but not a good blood sample so re-tested and got 55 - tried to get him to eat - wouldn't but seems fine - still gave him some maple syrup - he is awake and moving around will test soon - any help would be great - have left emergency message for vet.
 
Remind us what kind of insulin you are using. How long since the shot?

Looked at your other post. Looks like it is PZI, 8 units right?

55 isn't super low. Depends on how long since you shot.
 
shot was at 7:15pm - he weighs 17.5 lbs - he ate dinner at 5:30 ish and a snack later on - all wet food - high protein/low carb. It went from 62 to 50 to 40 - all in about 35 minutes - just spoke to the ER vet who advised to give more maple syrup (we'd given just a very little) and to watch him carefully - he did eat some tuna and a very little bit of dry - (the dry he's been screaming for he won't eat much of ??) won't eat the wet food - poor thing is all sticky from the maple syrup.
Vet suggests NOT giving him 8units again until he is seen by our regular vet - his next dose wouldn't be till 7am
 
he is on ProZinc 8 units 2x per day 7am 7pm tested 103 before dinner at 5:30 gave him the 8units at 7:15. Vet says this could just be the adjustment but still suggested the maple syrup or honey and to get him to eat if he would.
 
So it is 35 minutes after your shot?

The maple syrup will bring him up but he won't stay there very long. I would give him a few pieces of dry. Do you have a lot of strips? You are going to need to be testing every 15-30 minutes.
 
no it is 10:44pm here he had his shot at 7:15pm - gave him dry he only ate a tiny bit - ate some fancy feast and a bit of people tuna.
 
Oh good, 3 hours is a lot better than 30 minutes.

But you will still have 3 hours or so until nadir, so you will need to keep testing.

You are doing a great job - the small bits of food are much better than a large feeding. You want to him to continue to eat for you.
 
Im kind of losing it here - he did eat some but not much and won't eat more - I put some tuna juice on his fave dry food and he's licking the tuna juice off but thats it - 1am is nadir I think (his shot was at 7 - 6 hrs later?) Vet sounded not too crazed - but I am - how worried should I be - I'm seriously scared to test again and see if it's gone down more.
 
Breathe. This happens and you can do this. You need to test again. It's been about 30 minutes since you tested, right? We need another number.

Did you print off the hypo sheet? Does he have any symptoms?

Joanna posted on Community so we should have more eyes in a moment. Don't worry - you will have people helping.
 
If you can test regularly and get small amounts of food in him and syrup if needed (rub it on his gums if you have to) he should be fine. Don't panic, but make a pot of coffee, read the Hypo guide if you haven't, and take some deep breaths. You need to get him safely past nadir time, which with PZI can be anywhere from around +5 - +7.5, those #s are just approximate. He has quite a bit of insulin in his system so it is definitely not something to be taken lightly, but it can be counteracted with enough sugar.

How far are you from the emergency vets? Is that who you talked with? Did they recommend bringing him in? If they are nearby I would consider taking him in, and maybe others will chime in on that front as to what the best route is. If they are far away, I would think you may be better dealing with it at home, IF you can test regularly & get syrup in him if needed.

Deep breaths!! There are lots of great people here who will help you through this.
 
I printed the hypo sheet out today at work - and no other than kind of acting lethargic (but not much normally he'd be sleeping now so...) he's not showing any symptoms - he's drinking water right now - just tested again - it's 72 now - so up some (it was 40 last time I think -gotta check but yes, 62,55,40) he ate about 7 nuggets of dry food and lapped up some tuna fish juice - gave him a bit more syrup (as per vet who said more in 30 minutes) and will test again in about 20 minutes - he is walking around a bit more now as he just went into the kitchen to drink the dogs water.
 
the ER vet is about 40 minutes away - my husband is supposed to be at work at 5am- I'm keeping him up to help me with this - the vet I spoke to is the Vet who will answer emergency calls to my regular Vets office (he used to do it himself and has been to my house in the middle of the night for another cat but now he has 2 other vets who trade off) she doesn't know Robbie but was very specific and asked lots of questions - she is unfortunately in Manhattan (2 hours + away) on an appt. but said to call her again if needed. She did not feel he should be taken in - felt we could handle it at home but said if he showed any other signs to get him there but bring a syringe of the syrup with us and our tester. 72 is a bit better right?
 
This is sounding pretty good - no symptoms and he is willing to eat some variety of food.

The syrup brings the bg level up pretty fast, so that is probably why he is in the 70s. It won't keep the levels up however, so that is why you want to continue to offer food - dry is fine - if his levels drop for the next test.

One thing I always forget to mention is that you can expect to see high numbers tomorrow morning. The sugar and the dry food can mean sky high numbers as his body reacts to all the carbs and glucose. But you will need to reduce the dose tomorrow. Don't let a high number trick you into 8 units again.
 
he just walked over towards me and is visibally a bit shaky on his feet - Vet said to continue giving syrup - thoughts?
 
are you squirting the syrup down his throat or rubbing it on his gums? rub some on his gums with your finger if you've been squirting it down his throat.

does he like ice cream or milk? do you have any? you can mix the syrup into something he will eat, even in the tuna juice if he will eat more of that.
 
squirting down throat - did rub in the beginning - he loves ice cream I will try that I just looked at it in the freezer and thought hummm.... ok will try
 
hi, came back to check on you. whatever he gets to eat we should leave a little room in his tummy for later. that 8u can last for a longer time than usual.
let's not get fooled by a syrupy higher #, those don't last.
get out the dry. lasts longer...if he'll eat it.
 
ice cream beautiful too, but not fill him to the top.
agree/disagree group? i'm thinking he could plunge again.
 
he won't eat more dry - he's now hiding from me cause I'm pestering him to eat etc. - he walked in there fine - no shaky - rubbed some syrup on his gums he licked some ice cream with a bit of syrup in it off my fingers but not a lot.
 
You are doing great, Ellen. The object is to keep him eating little amounts of food, with syrup added or syrup on his gums.

How long since the 72?

Don't forget to breathe!
 
stay with us ellen. keep an eye on him, maybe without pestering.
how long since last test. in hours not the actual time. like 15 minutes, 1/2 hour??
 
Can you sit on the floor and hand feed him the dry... My charlie hit 42 one evening.... and had six hours till nadar... I sat and held them one at a time... He looked at me like.... I'm not hungry mom, but for you I'll try... I gave him honey... and syrup, and FF with gravy... he hit 400 something the next morning... but I got him through the night... Let hubby head to bed... you really can handle this.... I know you can.
 
oh yes, definitely, this is gonna be up and down for a few hours if you ask me.

if he is shaky though we do need to zoom him up quickly, then steady him out with higher carb foods, either wet or dry. dry will probably hold him steadier but it will take possibly an hour or so for it to even start to do much. syrup is fastest, followed by higher carb wet foods, then dry if i remember correctly.

eta: ellen, just so you know, we've walked dozens thru this before. i would actually venture to guess i've held hands on about nearly 100 of these situations since i joined this board way back when. you can do this but you have to stay calm. we are not there with you nor know you very well, if there's any doubt about this and you want it over quickly, you can take him to the vet and they'll have him up pretty quick
 
Sorry, my internet is being flaky.

Yes, 72 is very reassuring, but like others said you'll need to keep on top of it for a few more hours as he'll drop back down after the syrup wears off. He has some dry in him though, so that is good news. ER is a bit far away, so if you are doing ok, keep at it. Do you think he'll let you get another test in?

Recap for anyone just arriving:

PMPS 103 8u PZI
+3 62
+3.25 50
+3.5 40 --> gave small amounts maple syrup, LC wet & LC dry (not eating well on his own)
+3.75 72 --> continuing with syrup, ice cream, small amts food when he will allow it

I'm hoping that is close to correct! I think we're currently around +4.25, so 1/2 hour since last test? Shot was 7:15 pm East Coast time.
 
can we address tomorow morning? i'm going off line in about 15 min.
ellen you will likely see a very high am #. do not, repeat do not react to it.
with the 103 you had tonight i vote to not shoot the morning #
peeps?
 
cindy you walked me thru it 3 years ago. while i was half gone on ambien! we survived it!
 
Ellen,

I think we are wondering. One of your posts said he seemed shaky; the next one said he wasn't. Shaky is a symptom. So is hiding. So you need to be watching him and telling us if anything seems unusual. As Cindy said, symptoms mean more syrup.

Yes, as already mentioned, expect a high number in the morning and do not give 8 units. I would like Joanna or Cindy to give you an idea of dose when you get things settled tonight.
 
Tested last 25 minutes ago - (the 72) spoke to vet again - she said considering what he's on etc. etc. she thinks he's stabilizing now - he is sitting more perky - he is NOT happy with me - the ear thing is so new he doesn't like it and earlier tonight he flinched and I got him a good one - scraped instead of poked and he was NOT happy and has a small bruise mark now - I'm doing the other ear. I just put a plate with tunafish on it about two feet away from him - normally this would last 5 seconds - he's looking at it but not moving - when I put it near him he moves away from it - I will try hand feeding him - this is not a lap cat - he loves to be held but not on a lap - while standing -and he sleeps with me but on my feet - so holding him isn't easy - plus he's huge - a big maine coon who was 23 lbs we got him down to 21.5 before this all started and he lost 4 lbs in 5 weeks which was what gave us the biggest clue something was wrong. He is sitting with his head up, eyes open. Vet said to give the dry he ate a chance to show up and that can take 30-40 minutes so that should have showed up or show up next test. Wish he'd eat more of it.
thank you for all your support - this is making me nuts - I'm just not sure what to do and am very worried. My husband says he couldn't sleep - so I'm telling him to close his eyes in the recliner and relax.
He looked shaky at one point walking across to me but than walked into the kitchen and didn't seem shaky at all.
 
He'll forgive you. You can hold on to the spot for a few seconds after the test and that will help the bruising. Also neosporin works.

There is no way to tell he is stable yet. You will need several tests, all moving up before you can relax. The syrup is almost certainly what is raising his bg levels.
 
You people are amazing - seriously can I just say you should all go look in a mirror and say "I am amazing" - thank you - typically I am a very in control, take charge, no it all type - but this has me thrown a bit. DO NOT repeat DO NOT want to go to the ER Vet - they are far away, in a not great area and I don't really like them - plus it's so expensive and we have spent quite a bit on this situation already- not that I wouldn't go further into debt but...
OK he just got up, walked over to the small plate of tuna fish I put out when he turned his head up at dry food and ate the plate of it - about 3 tablespoons of tuna - I know not a high carb food but food none the less right? I wish he'd eat his fave dry food - the cat screamed bloody murder at me this am when i wouldn't give him any - now he turns his nose up at it.
He just walked into the bedroom - gonna go see what he is doing - if he is under the bed I'm cooked - he is impossible to get out from there -
 
he peed - and took up his night position on the floor of our bedroom - where he sleeps if he's not on the bed with us. He is wide eyed (in a good way) and flicked his tail a bit at me when I asked him what he was doing.
Hubby is sound asleep - testing without hubby holding him is gonna be tough - going to try in a minute or so.
 
he's eatting that good. cat's like humans can tell when their having low blood sugar and are often hungry and shakey.
just keep an eye but let him be.
next test in....how long has it been now?
 
That's awesome that he ate the tuna, go kitty! Have you been able to get another test in? I think we are about +4.5 now? You are doing great!

On dosing for the morning I'll defer to Lori & Cindy! No experience here with post-hypo shooting strategies. I wouldn't think anything more than 1u tops though. And then after chewing out the vet tomorrow :mrgreen: ask for a copy of all the BG tests to date - sounds like there may be a fair amount of data already collected.
 
Ha Ha Ha , joanna, chewing out the vet. :lol: i was literally in shock when he recommended 8 u on the pmps 103...i was -- in---shock!
 
I think the last test was on the hour, so now 1 hour since the 72...? If he's acting ok and ate some that sounds promising, it's the 8u that has me worried. Not sure really when the danger zone has passed on that kind of dose, with only small amounts of food in his system, and tuna won't raise his BGs much. Could be affecting him long past a normal nadir time? If he were eating his dry food I'd be less worried.

Ellen, are you there? Doing ok? Remember the hypo kit comes with a box of kleenex and large quantities of chocolate for the bean. :mrgreen:
 
or a small amount of adult beverage.
i have to go,,,but don't want to leave ellen alone.
someone gonna be on line for a bit longer?
 
11:55 pm est 79
Tested him again - had to get him out of the bedroom - where he hung onto the rug with his claws like I was taking him to the torture chamber. Got hubby up from dead sleep to hold him (17.5 lbs of squirming cat flesh is tough to deal with)
79 up from 72 - not up much but up. Gave more maple syrup (mixed with some honey) and rubbed some on gums giving about 4-5 ml's this is second full dose of that - gave about 1 ml originally than 2 more - than after vet heard his weight she said "give him the full syringe" which I did and now just did again. Will keep at it but testing him alone isn't going to work - I tried and almost took his eye out.

BTW - think Vet was doing a good job - but will not let him convince me to continue on 8units after this. I can't even remember if he knew about the 103 - did I call him - see I'm really losing it here - I'll have to go back and read everything
 
oh, god don't any of you live in Cal. or Europe or something ;-) and can stay up with me without killing yourselves?
I'll be OK - I just don't know for sure what to do at this point. The vet said I can call her at any hour or text her. He is heading under the bed right now according to hubby who is IN bed.
 
i can tell you what i would do in this situation tomorrow morning. no matter what the number, as long as it is a ways over 150, i'd start thinking about either not shooting anything and letting some of this 8 unit buildup clear out of his body or if i considered shooting, i'd shoot 1 unit and that's it. no more.

then i'd pick up some ketostix while i was out tomorrow and test him for ketones tomorrow night and continue on that path for several days, as long as the numbers warrant it.

and in a few days i'd give a good look see to the numbers i get over those days and see what i think. i'd even put a yell out here for "can someone look at my post-hypo numbers and help advise?"

yes, testing a cat in the beginning is a pain in the ass to put it quite frank. :) i used to have to chase Mousie in circles around my house for no less than 30 minutes, often 45, until she was so worn out she couldn't go any further. that allowed me to get my hands on her at least and then i recruited my fiance to help hang on to her for the actual testing and pilling that she was getting for the first month. she was a street rescue that i had never touched prior to her diagnosis so you can just picture that ordeal.

put simply, their lives depend on us doing what you are doing tonight. if we don't do it, they get sick or they die. in time, they learn that what you are doing makes them feel better and they just live with it. I pop the top on the vial of test strips now and Mousie is running AT me, bright eyed and bushy tailed and voluntarily sits for her tests.
 
I can be on for another 30 minutes or so. What about you, Joanna/Cindy?

I agree that this may be an unusual hypo with 8 units given on a 103...... Glad he hasn't gone down (the 79) but remember a lot of that is the syrup. You will need to stay up a while and plan on some more tests.

BTW, you are doing a fantastic job!
 
oh honey, if you gave him a full syringe of honey/syrup i think you can rest easy for awhile. that's a lot. leave food out for him and the two of you can take a break, check on him visually but i think he's kewl for at least a couple of hours and by that time the insulin should be on it's way out.
i'm still thinking no shot in the am, and that you WILL see a big # in the morning but lets see if he takes it down on his own. it's not a true #, it's the result of all the sugar you've pumped into him as well as the hypo episode. i've seen them come down on their own after that. my tom did, altho' it killed me not to shoot his 400 morning #. by night fall he was 170 all by hizself! no insulin.
it's the 103 that makes me think he's doing well.
did'nt need a shot tomight.
 
Oh, good. Ellen, Cindy has helped many people through a hypo. You are in good hands. Just stay with her - even though 79 seems like an okay number, he has a lot of syrup and honey in his little body. You can't assume he is really heading up and out of this hypo.

Ellen, you have been a trooper. Someday soon you will be helping someone else through a hypo. I'll sign off - good luck. You will be fine.
 
ok, i iz signing off as i have company here...dat's right. i abandoned my friends cuz this is where i needed to be.
ni ni
bless you cindy, doing this while in mourning.
 
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