Randy's Pmps(Updated)

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Re: Randy's Amps

It really helps if you post your numbers in one place so we can see it at a glance, until you get your spreadsheet up. I think this is what you have so far:

pmps. 2 units PZI
+10. 187
+ 12 107
+13 119
+25 250 Fed
+26 228

So the food brought him down.....This is a very good sign. It means there is pancreatic activity.

IMHO, I would be tempted to go with .5 units. He is doing pretty well on this own, but they are still diabetic numbers. Will you be home today to keep an eye on him? If not, I am not so sure. Hope others will chime in.
 
Re: Randy's Amps

Well, now I am rethinking it. If he is nearer 200, maybe you should wait a while and make sure the bg goes up. He is responding very well and he does have some pancreatic activity. Wish someone else would weigh in.
 
Re: Randy's Amps

Sue and Oliver said:
Well, now I am rethinking it. If he is nearer 200, maybe you should wait a while and make sure the bg goes up. He is responding very well and he does have some pancreatic activity. Wish someone else would weigh in.
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Yeah I was wondering that too. Maybe we should give him a couple hours and test again? Yeah, I was hoping more people would respond quicker heh, I don't want to take too long if he needs the insulin.
 
Re: Randy's Amps

He's getting extra duration, so you definitely need to drop the dose when you do shoot. I think he needs a tiny dose of insulin even if his numbers go down a bit after eating. And the only way to know is to try, so if you have time to monitor, I'd personally give 0.5

Jen
 
Re: Randy's Amps

Good question...since we don't know how soon the insulin kicks in with him, perhaps wait an hour or two and then see where things go. And fairly frequently after that...ie every hour unless he starts going too low.
 
Re: Randy's Amps

Jen & Squeak said:
Good question...since we don't know how soon the insulin kicks in with him, perhaps wait an hour or two and then see where things go. And fairly frequently after that...ie every hour unless he starts going too low.
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What do I do when he starts going too low??
 
Re: Randy's Amps

Up 2 posts, I gave you the URL for the hypo link. It tells you what to look for and how to react. It would be if you get numbers in the 30-40 range.

As long you are 60 and above, just watch and take tests. Come back on if you get a number that makes you nervous and people will help. You can feed lowish numbers with lo carb food, or high carb food if the numbers are lower.
 
Re: Randy's Amps

Sue and Oliver said:
Up 2 posts, I gave you the URL for the hypo link. It tells you what to look for and how to react. It would be if you get numbers in the 30-40 range.

As long you are 60 and above, just watch and take tests. Come back on if you get a number that makes you nervous and people will help. You can feed lowish numbers with lo carb food, or high carb food if the numbers are lower.
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Gotcha, so basically I'm testing him and watching until the next shot to make sure he doesn't go low? I'll post throughout the day with my readings in this thread.
 
Re: Randy's Amps

Sounds like a plan. I am leaving for the morning but will check back to see what numbers you got this afternoon. Hope you have an uneventful but nice numbers day! :mrgreen:
 
Re: Randy's Amps

Sorry so slow to respond.

I agree if his bg's come down after eating his P is working some.

New Prozinc users can get an early drop anywhere from +2 to +4.

I don't see any problem with waiting to make sure you're getting a rising number and I wouldn't shoot more than 1/2 unit.
 
Re: Randy's Amps

Sorry, I missed the part that you already shot .5u.

Kitties new to Prozinc tend to get an early drop anywhere from +2 to +4 but as they settle into the insulin your nadir will move to somewhere from + 4 to + 8.

I'll go back and read your other thread and get up to speed.

Robin
 
Re: Randy's Amps

1/2 U was a good call, I'd stick with that for the time being. Get your spot checks and hopefully we'll see even better numbers as he gets comfortable in your home and the good food kicks in :)
 
Re: Randy's Amps

It was a little steep for that early on, let's just be safe and check the BG again when you're ready. I wouldn't worry yet, let's just get numbers.
 
Re: Randy's Amps

tuckers mom said:
It was a little steep for that early on, let's just be safe and check the BG again when you're ready. I wouldn't worry yet, let's just get numbers.
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Alright we'll test again in fifteen minutes, that'll be a half hour.

Is there a chart somewhere that shows how the bgl is supposed to work in accordance to insulin administration and eating? Or that shows what levels are to not be worried about? I've found some charts but they don't seem accurate and I want to be able to kind of compare you know?
 
Re: Randy's Amps

I don't know if there's an actual chart, but Robin said ProZinc would drop faster from 2-4 hours. You've already dropped 100 points in hour. If the numbers continue to drop for another 3 hours, you may want to pull out some higher carb food.
 
Re: Randy's Amps

tuckers mom said:
I don't know if there's an actual chart, but Robin said ProZinc would drop faster from 2-4 hours. You've already dropped 100 points in hour. If the numbers continue to drop for another 3 hours, you may want to pull out some higher carb food.
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Is that Purina Dm canned crap considered higher carb? The shelter gave us a bunch of it. If not, I'll send my bf out to get some.
 
Re: Randy's Amps

Wow what a journey you are on. Bless you both for giving Randy a chance, you won't regret it.

You have gotten alot of great advise. When you have a chance go over to PZI and read the stickies about Prozinc. I would agree that you should post in Health for now, there is alot more traffic here than in PZI unfortunately, especially if you need an immediate response. But come over and introduce yourself and get to know us.

PZI's no shoot number is 200 until you have enough data gathered to see how he is responding to it.

Ok, so things have changed since I started this post. I agree with Jennifer to test every 30 minutes to stay on top of this.

I wouldn't worry yet but if he gets down to 60 or so I would have some higher carb food ready for him.

The early Prozinc drop doesn't usually keep dropping. They drop early and start coasting back up. The shelter kibble is probably high carb and will work.

Welcome to FDMB.
 
Re: Randy's Amps

He sure is keeping you on your toes!

There are two things you are looking to find out...trends and absolute numbers. By trends I mean how quickly does the insulin kick in and how long till nadir and when doeas it wear off. Also a general trend in how his body reacts to a particular dose at particular preshot levls. But you are also watching to ensure he doesn't go too low today.

There aren't any charts because each cat will respond differently. You will soon learn your cat's patterns.

Today he is showing a very quick response to the insulin, more than we would expect. So now you need to monitor until his levels start going up. While nerve wracking, it is valuable to know all this.

Jen
 
Re: Randy's Amps

Rob & Harley said:
Wow what a journey you are on. Bless you both for giving Randy a chance, you won't regret it.

You have gotten alot of great advise. When you have a chance go over to PZI and read the stickies about Prozinc. I would agree that you should post in Health for now, there is alot more traffic here than in PZI unfortunately, especially if you need an immediate response. But come over and introduce yourself and get to know us.

PZI's no shoot number is 200 until you have enough data gathered to see how he is responding to it.

Ok, so things have changed since I started this post. I agree with Jennifer to test every 30 minutes to stay on top of this.

I wouldn't worry yet but if he gets down to 60 or so I would have some higher carb food ready for him.

The early Prozinc drop doesn't usually keep dropping. They drop early and start coasting back up. The shelter kibble is probably high carb and will work.

Welcome to FDMB.
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What does no shoot number mean? Does that mean to not shoot underneath 200 or above 200?
 
Re: Randy's Amps

For higher carb food, I believe the DM is higher than Fancy Feast gluten free flavors.

It's always good to keep a hypo toolkit on hand. Did you see the link to that? If you don't have some of the basics, like syrup, gravy foods and dry, I'd add that to your list to have on hand. Tucker's been on insulin for years, and we still need to break out the higher carb stuff once in a while.

viewtopic.php?f=14&t=2354

Test again in a half hour. He's still dropping, not as quickly as the first hour, but it's best to be safe. Still not in a dangerous level yet, let's see what the number is from the 108 after the half hour passes.

No shoot number means, not to shoot if the Preshot value is below 200 while you are still new and collecting data on how he reacts to insulin.
 
Re: Randy's Amps

tuckers mom said:
For higher carb food, I believe the DM is higher than Fancy Feast gluten free flavors.

It's always good to keep a hypo toolkit on hand. Did you see the link to that? If you don't have some of the basics, like syrup, gravy foods and dry, I'd add that to your list to have on hand. Tucker's been on insulin for years, and we still need to break out the higher carb stuff once in a while.

viewtopic.php?f=14&t=2354

Test again in a half hour. He's still dropping, not as quickly as the first hour, but it's best to be safe. Still not in a dangerous level yet, let's see what the number is from the 108 after the half hour passes.

No shoot number means, not to shoot if the Preshot value is below 200 while you are still new and collecting data on how he reacts to insulin.
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Ah okay gotcha. We have the purina canned dm food and we have corn syrup. Randy's just been laying on the couch all day.

So with him dropping like this could it be a sign that he might be going into remission or have a higher chance of it? I'm still kinda confused. I feel like a moron heh, sorry for all the questions.
 
Re: Randy's Amps

I've seen a few cats recently that were shelter cats, or cats that were going to be given up because they recently had become diabetic.

Those cats, two of mine and two that a friend here in CT has adopted, went off insulin pretty quickly. I believe that stress from the shelter - losing your home, the people you know, plus the not so great food from the shelter could cause transient diabetes.

You're not asking too many questions, you're doing a fantastic job with a wonderful new kitty. Could he be headed for remission, I think so, but only time will tell.

You have a wellness visit scheduled at your own vet soon if I remember correctly, right?
 
Re: Randy's Amps

tuckers mom said:
I've seen a few cats recently that were shelter cats, or cats that were going to be given up because they recently had become diabetic.

Those cats, two of mine and two that a friend here in CT has adopted, went off insulin pretty quickly. I believe that stress from the shelter - losing your home, the people you know, plus the not so great food from the shelter could cause transient diabetes.

You're not asking too many questions, you're doing a fantastic job with a wonderful new kitty. Could he be headed for remission, I think so, but only time will tell.

You have a wellness visit scheduled at your own vet soon if I remember correctly, right?
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That makes a lot of sense. The shelter he was in didn't have a "homebase" either so they used a mall store front for their adoption clinics which meant people always in and out and constantly poking through cage bars and such, certainly not a calm atmosphere for a kitty. And before that he was a stray they found in the streets of a local town. Plus they were feeding him the purina dog kibble which I'm sure wasn't too nice on his system.

Yes, we have an appointment for the 12th with Dr.Kohler from Harmony Veterinary Clinic in ballston spa, ny. She's wonderful, so hopefully she'll have some input too :) I especially still want to have the cloudiness in his eyes looked into.
 
Re: Randy's Amps

Boy can I attest to what a stable home and a good diet can do for a former shelter kitty. We adopted Max from this board on the 15th of last month, within a couple of days of being at home with us he went into remission. Now he constantly gives me numbers in the 40-60 range. He is also approx. 12 years old.

You guys are doing a great job with Randy. And are in very capable hands here with Jen.

Mel
 
Re: Randy's Amps

He shouldn't keep dropping until +4. In my experience they drop, coast and start to rise.

I must be a slow typer. I'll try to keep up. :-D

Cloudy eyes, diabetics are prone to cataracks sp? Harley has them, if you shine a light into his eyes they look like little white specks.
 
Re: Randy's Amps

It's been a half an hour, we retested and he's still at 108. Good sign, bad sign? Keep retesting?

EDIT: Also thought I should mentioned that despite Randy finishing his meal he has not had a bowel movement in a day and a half. How often should I go to the bathroom? He seems to be urinating regularly. I'm just being paranoid heh.
 
Re: Randy's Amps

It looks like he's bottomed out, that's a good sign. He should hang around these numbers for a while before going back up.

Keep testing to stay on top of it.

You're doing great.
 
Re: Randy's Amps

Rob & Harley said:
It looks like he's bottomed out, that's a good sign. He should hang around these numbers for a while before going back up.

Keep testing to stay on top of it.

You're doing great.
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Thanks :) So if/once he starts going up, should we keep testing or no?

Thanks again everyone for all your help. Randy appreciates it!
 
Retinal Atrophy in cats.........

Human diabetics and diabetic dogs are very prone to blindness......not so in diabetic cats.......rare. If you see cloudiness, it is more likely progressive retinal atrophy. Mishka has it......been to the opthamologist.........but it is not from the diabetes.


Progressive retinal atrophy in cats is a type of premature deterioration of the photoreceptor cells in the retina. There are two types of photoreceptor cells in the retina, cones and rods. These cells detect light and send the neural signals that allow the brain to interpret that light as images. Progressive retinal atrophy (PRA) in cats is a progressive disease that results in gradual loss of eyesight and eventual blindness.

How PRA Causes Vision Loss in Cats
In cats, progressive retinal atrophy usually affects the rods of the eye first. These cells are responsible for night vision. Cats with PRA lose their night vision first.

PRA is a progressive disease, and will eventually affect the cones of your cat's eye. These cells are responsible for day time vision. As your cat's cone cells deteriorate, he will go completely blind. Progressive retinal atrophy affects both of your cat's eyes at once.

Symptoms of PRA in Cats
The blindness associated with PRA may seem to appear suddenly, though in fact cats adjust very well to vision loss and may have been slowly losing their sight for some time before blindness becomes total and obvious to the owner. Many cats show no signs of illness until total vision loss occurs. Most cats diagnosed with PRA are already in the later stages of the disease.

Symptoms of PRA include blindness, bumping into things, reluctance to jump up or down or reluctance to go outside. Cats may exhibit poor vision in low light conditions; that's one of the first signs of PRA. Pupils will remain dilated as your cat loses vision, and your cat's eyes may seem to reflect more light once his pupils become more dilated.

Feline progressive retinal apathy is rare in the U.S. Purebred cats, such as the Siamese, Persian and Abyssinian succumb to this illness more often, though it may appear in mixed breed short hair cats. Progressive retinal atrophy in Abyssinian cats appears to have a strong link to heredity, though vets don't know what genetic factors may be involved in cases of PRA in other breeds.

Diagnosing and Treating PRA in Cats
Your vet will need a complete medical history and physical exam to diagnose PRA. Your vet will perform a number of tests designed to measure the extent of your cat's vision loss. A common test used to measure the extent of vision loss involves evaluating your cat's performance on an obstacle course under both dim and bright light conditions. Your vet will also test your cat's neural reflexes and your cat's pupillary response to light.

You may need to see a veterinary opthalmologist to determine the extent of the damage to your cat's eyes. The opthalmologist may take corneal stains and measure the pressure levels within your cat's eye, as well as examining the structures of your cat's eye.

PRA can't be cured, and there's no therapy to treat it. Cats can adjust quite happily to vision loss, though cats with PRA should not be bred, since the disease has a genetic component.



Read more: Progressive Retinal Atrophy in Cats
 
Re: Randy's Amps

He's now dropped to 92 and I'm kinda freaking out. Is something wrong? Should I do something? :(

Edit: This is +3 hours btw.
 
Re: Randy's Amps

Are you feeding him anything?

Might be good to give him some low carb at this point, to help keep it from going lower.
 
Re: Randy's Amps

Numbers are looking good, but as others have said, continue to test today to be sure.

I wonder if dropping the dose to 0.25U BID may be a good idea. This way you can work up to the correct dose, whether it stays at 0.25U or goes up to 0.5U.
 
Re: Randy's Amps

Thirty minutes after eating he's at 112. Should we continue to test or do you all think he's stable at this point? Is it a good or bad sign that he barely went down after eating? Thanks :)
 
Re: Randy's Amps

I can only offer my own experience - in that when my cat started on wet food, his poops only came every 2 days - on dry food it was every day. Dr. Pierson told me this was to be expected. BTW your numbers are looking real good. Excellent work.

leaveittoweaver said:
It's been a half an hour, we retested and he's still at 108. Good sign, bad sign? Keep retesting?

EDIT: Also thought I should mentioned that despite Randy finishing his meal he has not had a bowel movement in a day and a half. How often should I go to the bathroom? He seems to be urinating regularly. I'm just being paranoid heh.
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Re: Randy's Amps

Actually feeding him low carb wet is to keep his bg's where they are for right now.

I would keep testing, this is great information for you to use as you proceed, and will catch him if he dips a little. I think you are ok for now, he will probably hang around in these numbers for awhile longer.
 
Re: Randy's Amps

Note: glucometers are plus or minus 20% from actual readings!

ex.
a reading of 100 could be as low as 80 and as high as 120.

So if 2 readings are within 20% of each other, they may be representing the same value.

Keep monitoring and observing behavior.
 
Re: Randy's Amps

This is probably a really dumb question. But how do you know when a cat has went into remission and needs no more insulin? I just read a big article about it and feel like a deer in headlights as far as understanding it.
 
Re: Randy's Amps

That's a great question.

When Mr. Darcy came to my home he was on Vetsulin insulin BID, he got some the morning he traveled up from Virginia (I believe) to me in Connecticut. That night I tested him he was under 70. He stayed under 70 for day, then every other day, then every other week. He was in remission from day one.

Bean, she needed insulin for the first week and a half. I changed her food and she was a steroid induced FD, I believe it had been a while since her last steroid shot. Previous caretaker kept noting trace ketones so I was nervous. When she started getting preshots values that were mid 100s I started to test her on food only. She stayed in the low 100s, then starting go even lower without needing any insulin.

Another cat I've been working with, the one from the shelter named Porch that DCIN is helping with. He took shots only once per day. His duration (the amount of time one shot of insulin lasted) kept getting longer and longer. 12 hours, then 18 hours, then 24 hours. Finally he stopped needing insulin a couple of weeks ago.

If you post numbers daily people here can help you intrepret them, whether he may or may not need a dose. Whether to try to bring his numbers down by using food. The decisions will be yours to make, but we can tell you about our own experiences and help you along.
 
Re: Randy's Amps

tuckers mom said:
That's a great question.

When Mr. Darcy came to my home he was on Vetsulin insulin BID, he got some the morning he traveled up from Virginia (I believe) to me in Connecticut. That night I tested him he was under 70. He stayed under 70 for day, then every other day, then every other week. He was in remission from day one.

Bean, she needed insulin for the first week and a half. I changed her food and she was a steroid induced FD, I believe it had been a while since her last steroid shot. Previous caretaker kept noting trace ketones so I was nervous. When she started getting preshots values that were mid 100s I started to test her on food only. She stayed in the low 100s, then starting go even lower without needing any insulin.

Another cat I've been working with, the one from the shelter named Porch that DCIN is helping with. He took shots only once per day. His duration (the amount of time one shot of insulin lasted) kept getting longer and longer. 12 hours, then 18 hours, then 24 hours. Finally he stopped needing insulin a couple of weeks ago.

If you post numbers daily people here can help you intrepret them, whether he may or may not need a dose. Whether to try to bring his numbers down by using food. The decisions will be yours to make, but we can tell you about our own experiences and help you along.
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Thanks for the explanation :) I was able to easily understand that hah. I also have another question, is there a way to get the test strips quicker. We got a 20 count for our relion micro and that costs 9 bucks and we're running through them fairly quickly. Is there anywhere to find them cheaper? I've posted on craigslist and am hoping to get some responses under the items wanted section.
 
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