ProZinc Dosage Question: Skip or Lower?

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malibu4590

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Hello Everyone,

Malcolm has been doing well on the Prozinc and really seems to enjoy the Royal Canin Diabetic wet food. Since he was last hospitalized on June 25, the vet increased his ProZinc dosage from 3 units every 12 hours to 4 units every 12 hours. DH and I have been monitoring his BG for the last 2 weeks (some days more sporadic than others).

Malcolm usually eats @ 545am, 10am, 2pm, 545pm, 8pm, and 11pm.
He gets his insulin shot at 630am and 630pm. We use an AccuCheck Aviva Plus meter.
He is currently 10 1/2 lbs.

While on the increased dosage of 4units here are some numbers:
6/30 no AMPS, +4 328, +7 194, +10 163, +12 306 (after eating @ 530pm), no PMPS
7/1 AMPS 348, +3 483, +6 156, +9 92, +10 160, no PMPS, +1 521 (after eating)
7/2 random check before afternoon meal, +8 168
(LAST NIGHT) 7/6 random check after last evening meal +5 54, +7 64

My question about changing his dosage revolves around these most recent numbers from this morning and the low numbers from last night:

7/7 AMPS 128, +2 190 (after eating @ 6am)

I haven't given him his dosage today because I feel like the 4 units may be too much. He is about an hour past his dosage time and I'm not quiet sure what I should do. Skip the dosage and continue to check BG every two hours? Or give him a lower dosage? If the later, what should the dosage be? I'm thinking 2 units would be safe but I really don't know.

Any advice is appreciated. Thanks!
 
Hi,

I don't use the same insulin as you but the general advice here for folks new to dealing with feline diabetes is not to give a shot if the blood glucose is below 200.

I don't know your history so I'm just going to take a few minutes to read through your previous posts.

Back soon.
 
Elizabeth and Bertie said:
Hi,

I don't use the same insulin as you but the general advice here for folks new to dealing with feline diabetes is not to give a shot if the blood glucose is below 200.

I don't know your history so I'm just going to take a few minutes to read through your previous posts.

Back soon.
Click to expand...

Thanks Elizabeth.

Yes, that's why I am hesitant to give him a shot because he's reading below 200. I'm hoping his body is starting to regulate on its own.

Now the meter we use is a human one and usually reads about 30 points lower than the AlphaTrak one the vet uses which would put him more accurately around 220.
 
malibu4590 said:
...I'm thinking 2 units would be safe but I really don't know...
Click to expand...

Yes, this is the problem. That's why the general advice initially is not to give insulin below a preshot number of 200 until there is sufficient data to be able to make other choices (such as giving a reduced dose for example).

If it were my cat I would skip this one shot and see how he is later. Hopefully there will be Prozinc users online soon who can better advise you about dosage for the next shot.
 
malibu4590 said:
..Yes, that's why I am hesitant to give him a shot because he's reading below 200. I'm hoping his body is starting to regulate on its own.
Click to expand...
Yes, he certainly does seem to be responding well to the Prozinc. :smile:

malibu4590 said:
...Now the meter we use is a human one and usually reads about 30 points lower than the AlphaTrak one the vet uses which would put him more accurately around 220.
Click to expand...

Don't worry about adjusting your meter numbers. People here 'think' in 'human meter' numbers, so the suggestion here not to shoot below 200 is based on the readings from human meters.
 
Elizabeth and Bertie said:
Hi again,

When did you switch (from dry food) to the Royal Canin wet?
And is that the only food Malcolm is eating at the moment?
Click to expand...

We made the switch from dry to the Royal Canin wet on June 25, approx 2 weeks ago. Yes that's the only food he's eating.

I just took another BG reading and it was 222. That reading comes one whole hour after the last reading which read 190.
 
Hi,

The diet switch may be why Malcolm's BG numbers have dropped. And now that he's on wet food (kudos to you for that!), and you're hometesting, you might consider switching him to lower carb wet food...? This could drop his blood glucose much lower though and so you would need to monitor that change carefully and reduce insulin as necessary.

I've posted a link to this thread in the PZI forum, so hopefully that will get more 'Prozinc eyes' on the case for you.

Eliz
 
Elizabeth and Bertie said:
Hi,

The diet switch may be why Malcolm's BG numbers have dropped. And now that he's on wet food (kudos to you for that!), and you're hometesting, you might consider switching him to lower carb wet food...? This could drop his blood glucose much lower though and so you would need to monitor that change carefully and reduce insulin as necessary.

I've posted a link to this thread in the PZI forum, so hopefully that will get more 'Prozinc eyes' on the case for you.

Eliz
Click to expand...

Thank you for posting the link.

I'm working on getting him on a lower carb wet food. We purchased some Merrick's brand food but it was pate style and Malcolm only seems to like chunks in gravy. I bought 3 different "flavors" of suitable Merrick's food and he scratched around the bowl for each of them as to "bury" it into the ground. He only does that with food he doesn't like.

So for right now, he's enjoying the veterinary prescribed food but I've been scouring the Dr. Lisa info to find something else that's healthy and palatable to Malcolm.
 
A general routine here is to test, feed, and shoot within the same 15 minutes of time, although with ProZinc, its OK to give 15 minutes of feeding before shooting as it hits a smidge faster than Lantus or Levemir.

Try making food changes more gradually - ex add 1-2 teaspoons of the new food to the current food.
 
Hi and Welcome! I would definitely lower the dose by at least .5 units, assuming you are around to monitor mid cycle. If not, I'd lower by at least one unit.

It looks like the food change and insulin are starting to work well together. It may be that you continue to see lowering numbers and will need to continue to adjust the dose downward - a situation that needs pretty careful monitoring.

We have a PZI forum with people familiar with your insulin. You might post there also for dosing advice.
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewforum.php?f=24

Also a new post here asking for chunkier low carb choices might give you some good alternatives for food. I know there are some brands that are a little more like shreds than pate.
 
BJM said:
A general routine here is to test, feed, and shoot within the same 15 minutes of time, although with ProZinc, its OK to give 15 minutes of feeding before shooting as it hits a smidge faster than Lantus or Levemir.

Try making food changes more gradually - ex add 1-2 teaspoons of the new food to the current food.
Click to expand...

Ok that's good to know. Usually I test, feed, and shoot within 30 mins or so. Malcolm takes his time when he eats, so I usually feed him before I get ready for work in the morning then shoot once I'm ready to head out.
 
Sue and Oliver (GA) said:
Hi and Welcome! I would definitely lower the dose by at least .5 units, assuming you are around to monitor mid cycle. If not, I'd lower by at least one unit.

It looks like the food change and insulin are starting to work well together. It may be that you continue to see lowering numbers and will need to continue to adjust the dose downward - a situation that needs pretty careful monitoring.

We have a PZI forum with people familiar with your insulin. You might post there also for dosing advice.
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewforum.php?f=24

Also a new post here asking for chunkier low carb choices might give you some good alternatives for food. I know there are some brands that are a little more like shreds than pate.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the advice and welcome, Sue!

I ended up giving him a 3 unit shot instead of the previous 4 units almost two hours after he usually gets one. I will be giving him a bg test in about an hour to see how he's doing (he'll be +4 at that time), then another at +8. He' seems to hit nadir around the +8 mark and will get a small meal right after.

I hope I can keep him at 3 units regularly and incrementally lower the dosage each week as I continue to get good numbers.
 
For chunkier foods in the US.

Fancy Feast flaked styles are chunkier and low carb
Fancy Feast chunky styles are chunkier and low carb

I've got a chunky food list at home but no access to it here at work. If you send me a PM, I'll remember to send it to you.

Just click on the little PM symbol over to the right of my post. It will bring up a window where you can type a message for me. Submit it like you would a regular post.
 
Malcolm's mom or dad.

Thanks for the PM reminder for that chunky food list I have. I put this together from past posts where other people have been looking for chunkier style foods for their picky kitties. Hope it helps you.
Chunky style foods, low carb we think
1. Fancy Feast chunky turkey, chunky chicken; Fancy Feast flaked style.
2. Nature's Variety is more chunky like the Merrick's or the FF Chunky.
3. Weruva's Paw Lickin' Chicken
4. Avoderm Chicken Chunks in Gravy
5. Stella and Chewys freeze dried dinner
6. Merrick Cowboy Cookout is somewhat chunky and low carb
7. Tiki Cat for the chunks, albeit pricey
8. wellness sells a chunk style brand in chicken and turkey in a minced, cubed and sliced low carb though?
9. Merrick Grammy's Pot Pie is pretty chunky.
10. Pro Plan turkey is a mince, so it has some texture
Click to expand...
 
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