KittyMom777
Member Since 2014
Ok Mel, I'll post his readings here throughout the day. Got up and test, fed and shot at 6:30am. Gave two units. Will keep an eye on him carefully today.
Juliet and Silver
Juliet and Silver
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11/15 Silver - Final Lights Out # 12.9 at + 4
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KittyMom777
Member Since 2014
Re: 11/15 Silver AMPS 18 (324) changing dose weekend.
+2 = 13 (234). Going in the right direction looking forward to a sunny day maybe swim in the lagoon later.
+2 = 13 (234). Going in the right direction looking forward to a sunny day maybe swim in the lagoon later.
MommaOfMuse
Member Since 2010
Re: 11/15 Silver AMPS 18 (324) changing dose weekend.
Keep a close eye on him today. Yes, he's getting better numbers, but he's dropping too fast for the way Lantus works. You just doubled his dose this morning, his shouldn't have filled to the point yet to where he should be reacting this much to a dose increase. He just dropped nearly 100 pts in 2 hours and he still has 4 more to go until nadir, if he doesn't nadir late. We don't where his nadir is yet. If he continues this rate of descent over the next 4 hours he'll in theory would be at 134 at +4 and 34 at +6 before turning the corner and heading back up.
Then given the fact that Lantus is a depot insulin, it isn't designed to start working the moment you inject it. Typically with Lantus you see at +1 a food spike so a higher number than preshot, then at +2 the number should be fairly close to the preshot number as you have onset, when the insulin should be kicking in and handling the food influenced number, then you want a gradual slide down to nadir or lowest point in the cycle. Ideally you want them to go up for an hour, back to prehot value, down lower at +3, little lower a +4, then surf that range until +6 and possibly all the way to +8 then gradual rise back to preshot.
I hate to tell you this but with this big of drop this early in both a dose increase and in his cycle he's at very least going to bounce tonight or by tomorrow morning.
I've got a pretty nasty snow storm going on here in Nebraska right now and since I'm on wireless not sure how well I'm going to keep a connection today. So I'm going to cross-post a link to your condo over on TR, explain the situation that your vet really wanted you at 2/2 and since you were going to be home the next 3 days to monitor that you wanted to at least try it. And ask them to keep an eye out for you too, so you'll have someone around to help if things go sideways and I can't get a connection.
I'll be honest I'm worried with how fast he's dropping already. That's normally not a good sign with Lantus.
Mel and The Fur Gang
Keep a close eye on him today. Yes, he's getting better numbers, but he's dropping too fast for the way Lantus works. You just doubled his dose this morning, his shouldn't have filled to the point yet to where he should be reacting this much to a dose increase. He just dropped nearly 100 pts in 2 hours and he still has 4 more to go until nadir, if he doesn't nadir late. We don't where his nadir is yet. If he continues this rate of descent over the next 4 hours he'll in theory would be at 134 at +4 and 34 at +6 before turning the corner and heading back up.
Then given the fact that Lantus is a depot insulin, it isn't designed to start working the moment you inject it. Typically with Lantus you see at +1 a food spike so a higher number than preshot, then at +2 the number should be fairly close to the preshot number as you have onset, when the insulin should be kicking in and handling the food influenced number, then you want a gradual slide down to nadir or lowest point in the cycle. Ideally you want them to go up for an hour, back to prehot value, down lower at +3, little lower a +4, then surf that range until +6 and possibly all the way to +8 then gradual rise back to preshot.
I hate to tell you this but with this big of drop this early in both a dose increase and in his cycle he's at very least going to bounce tonight or by tomorrow morning.
I've got a pretty nasty snow storm going on here in Nebraska right now and since I'm on wireless not sure how well I'm going to keep a connection today. So I'm going to cross-post a link to your condo over on TR, explain the situation that your vet really wanted you at 2/2 and since you were going to be home the next 3 days to monitor that you wanted to at least try it. And ask them to keep an eye out for you too, so you'll have someone around to help if things go sideways and I can't get a connection.
I'll be honest I'm worried with how fast he's dropping already. That's normally not a good sign with Lantus.
Mel and The Fur Gang
KittyMom777
Member Since 2014
Re: 11/15 Silver AMPS 18 (324) changing dose weekend.
I'm concerned too to be honest but I told the vet I would try it her way as I was home the next three days and if I'm not comfortable I will call her and say so. I only went up from 1.5 as I'd been giving a generous 1 that was probably closer to 1.5 so not quite doubled. I'm probably expecting a bounce then aren't i? Will keep posting and watching. I'm scared but at least I'm home.
I'm concerned too to be honest but I told the vet I would try it her way as I was home the next three days and if I'm not comfortable I will call her and say so. I only went up from 1.5 as I'd been giving a generous 1 that was probably closer to 1.5 so not quite doubled. I'm probably expecting a bounce then aren't i? Will keep posting and watching. I'm scared but at least I'm home.
KittyMom777
Member Since 2014
Re: 11/15 Silver AMPS 18 (324) changing dose weekend.
+ 4 = 6.9
+ 4 = 6.9
MommaOfMuse
Member Since 2010
Re: 11/15 Silver AMPS 18 (324) changing dose weekend.
Juliet,
I've cross posted to the ladies in TR Lantus. and I'm going to go back to your first post and put up a 911 icon so they can locate your condo easier. He is dropping way too fast hon, this is NOT a good thing if he doesn't slow down, he will be headed for a hypo I'm afraid.
Right now you might want to give him a little snack of his regular food and see it that will slow him down a little bit. When they start dropping too fast like this sometimes you can avoid a crash by starting to steer so they slow down how fast they are coming down.
Just try to stay calm, we've got you covered. At the very worst, this will give you proof for your vet that 2u bid is too much insulin for him.
Mel and The Fur Gang
Juliet,
I've cross posted to the ladies in TR Lantus. and I'm going to go back to your first post and put up a 911 icon so they can locate your condo easier. He is dropping way too fast hon, this is NOT a good thing if he doesn't slow down, he will be headed for a hypo I'm afraid.
Right now you might want to give him a little snack of his regular food and see it that will slow him down a little bit. When they start dropping too fast like this sometimes you can avoid a crash by starting to steer so they slow down how fast they are coming down.
Just try to stay calm, we've got you covered. At the very worst, this will give you proof for your vet that 2u bid is too much insulin for him.
Mel and The Fur Gang
KittyMom777
Member Since 2014
Re: 11/15 Silver AMPS 18 (324) changing dose weekend.
Ok thanks. He's right beside me purring happily. He seems ok. He dropped quite fast on the curve the vet did too. +6 in 90 mins let's hope it's safely still in blue or high greens. My nerves are on edge.
Ok thanks. He's right beside me purring happily. He seems ok. He dropped quite fast on the curve the vet did too. +6 in 90 mins let's hope it's safely still in blue or high greens. My nerves are on edge.
MommaOfMuse
Member Since 2010
Re: 11/15 Silver AMPS 18 (324) changing dose weekend.
Mine too, hon, mine too
I need to pop out and get this afternoon's chili going for the football game but I'll keep checking in on you as much as I can through out the day.
Fingers and toes crossed.
Mel and The Fur Gang
Mine too, hon, mine too
I need to pop out and get this afternoon's chili going for the football game but I'll keep checking in on you as much as I can through out the day.
Fingers and toes crossed.
Mel and The Fur Gang
KittyMom777
Member Since 2014
Re: 11/15 Silver AMPS 18 (324) changing dose weekend.
Thanks. This could be ok. Time only will tell. ECID right? Maybe Silver will surprise us all yet.
MommaOfMuse said:
Thanks. This could be ok. Time only will tell. ECID right? Maybe Silver will surprise us all yet.
fun2doimpossible
Member Since 2013
Re: 11/15 Silver AMPS 18 (324) changing dose weekend.
Hi Juliet,
Just stay calm and you'll be fine. I saw Mel's post over in TR. I looked at Silver's spreadsheet and we'll help you through this. It looks like Mel had you give him a bit of food to try and slow it down. Hopefully he'll bottom out soon and will start to trend upwards. If you are feeding him, I would probably retest every 30 min to see which direction the curve is still heading. If he's still heading down, it will be an interesting day. :smile: If he's consistently headed upwards, we can relax a bit. We want to see at least two hours after you've fed him with the curve going upwards. That will tell us that he's bottomed out and the curve is no longer food influenced.
If at any time he gets to 40 (2.2 mmol/L) we have a urgent situation on our hands where Silver is getting into the hypo range. Hopefully, he doesn't end up that low but just in case he does, do you have any high carb cat food or karo syrup on hand?
Will
Hi Juliet,
Just stay calm and you'll be fine. I saw Mel's post over in TR. I looked at Silver's spreadsheet and we'll help you through this. It looks like Mel had you give him a bit of food to try and slow it down. Hopefully he'll bottom out soon and will start to trend upwards. If you are feeding him, I would probably retest every 30 min to see which direction the curve is still heading. If he's still heading down, it will be an interesting day. :smile: If he's consistently headed upwards, we can relax a bit. We want to see at least two hours after you've fed him with the curve going upwards. That will tell us that he's bottomed out and the curve is no longer food influenced.
If at any time he gets to 40 (2.2 mmol/L) we have a urgent situation on our hands where Silver is getting into the hypo range. Hopefully, he doesn't end up that low but just in case he does, do you have any high carb cat food or karo syrup on hand?
Will
MommaOfMuse
Member Since 2010
Re: 11/15 Silver AMPS 18 (324) changing dose weekend.
Today could turn out fine the problem is he's dropping like this on the first dose of the increase. Lantus each shot builds on the next one until the adjusts. That takes up to 3 days. Which means he could pick up steam tomorrow and the next day. And drop even faster and lower.
Mel and The Fur Gang
Today could turn out fine the problem is he's dropping like this on the first dose of the increase. Lantus each shot builds on the next one until the adjusts. That takes up to 3 days. Which means he could pick up steam tomorrow and the next day. And drop even faster and lower.
Mel and The Fur Gang
KittyMom777
Member Since 2014
Re: 11/15 Silver AMPS 18 (324) changing dose weekend.
Ok he's still dropping but much slower +5 = 6.3.
Will test again in another hour. I held off giving him a snack. Just want to ride this out today and see how he responds.
Ok he's still dropping but much slower +5 = 6.3.
Will test again in another hour. I held off giving him a snack. Just want to ride this out today and see how he responds.
fun2doimpossible
Member Since 2013
Re: 11/15 Silver AMPS 18 (324) changing dose weekend.
Ok...I'm keeping my fingers/toes/paws crossed that he's starting to level off.
Ok...I'm keeping my fingers/toes/paws crossed that he's starting to level off.
MommaOfMuse
Member Since 2010
Re: 11/15 Silver AMPS 18 (324) changing dose weekend.
Like I told you last night, you hold the syringe. We can only suggest a course of action based on what we've experienced with our own cats. But ultimately Silver is your boy. You make the call on how to treat him.
And we'll help you the best we can with whatever that choice is.
Mel and The Fur Gang
Like I told you last night, you hold the syringe. We can only suggest a course of action based on what we've experienced with our own cats. But ultimately Silver is your boy. You make the call on how to treat him.
And we'll help you the best we can with whatever that choice is.
Mel and The Fur Gang
julie & punkin (ga)
Member Since 2011
Re: 11/15 Silver AMPS 18 (324) changing dose weekend.
Hi Juliet!
Looks like Silver is doing ok for the moment. I'd get another test at +6 and see where he is then. That was a pretty fast drop at the beginning - for many cats anything over 50 points per hour will trigger a bounce. But he's slowed down now and it looks like it's turning into a nice cycle. I don't think you're headed into trouble anymore - i'd just stay the course for now.
I would go ahead and give him about 2 teaspoons of his regular low carb food now. Sometimes feeding a cat at this point, when they're just hitting good numbers (50-120), will help the cat settle in and "surf", meaning stay in this healthy range for a longer time. The longer amount of time a cat spends in this range, the more opportunity there is for Silver's pancreas to heal. If your goal includes remission for Silver, you want him to spend as much time as possible in the 50-120 range.
Hi Juliet!
Looks like Silver is doing ok for the moment. I'd get another test at +6 and see where he is then. That was a pretty fast drop at the beginning - for many cats anything over 50 points per hour will trigger a bounce. But he's slowed down now and it looks like it's turning into a nice cycle. I don't think you're headed into trouble anymore - i'd just stay the course for now.
I would go ahead and give him about 2 teaspoons of his regular low carb food now. Sometimes feeding a cat at this point, when they're just hitting good numbers (50-120), will help the cat settle in and "surf", meaning stay in this healthy range for a longer time. The longer amount of time a cat spends in this range, the more opportunity there is for Silver's pancreas to heal. If your goal includes remission for Silver, you want him to spend as much time as possible in the 50-120 range.
KittyMom777
Member Since 2014
Re: 11/15 Silver AMPS 18 (324) changing dose weekend.
Thanks. His + 6 that I just took was at 8.3. I think it looks like a good day but like Mel says, I may be heading for a bouncy ride the next few days.
Juliet and Silver
julie & punkin (ga) said:
Thanks. His + 6 that I just took was at 8.3. I think it looks like a good day but like Mel says, I may be heading for a bouncy ride the next few days.
Juliet and Silver
KittyMom777
Member Since 2014
Re: 11/15 Silver AMPS 18 (324) changing dose weekend.
Thanks Mel. I'm having a difficult day as I feel torn between vet and forum as to what is best. Today looks ok. I take it his nadir was at +5? This is thd first curve I've done myself.
MommaOfMuse said:
Thanks Mel. I'm having a difficult day as I feel torn between vet and forum as to what is best. Today looks ok. I take it his nadir was at +5? This is thd first curve I've done myself.
Jill & Alex (GA)
Member Since 2009
Re: 11/15 Silver AMPS 18 (324) changing dose weekend.
hello ladies,
i wish i could help out, but i'm out more than i'm in this weekend. it's just one of those weekends with tons of stuff happening. however, just wanted to throw an idea out there for your consideration...
it looks to me like silver's currently in the blues and doesn't really need to drop any further. what about aborting the cycle? we've done this before in the Lantus TR group in the case of an over dose and kitty was dropping too rapidly. you'd still have to feed the curve, but instead of feeding LC or MC you'd want to feed HC. the amount would have to be determined by where you are in the cycle and the rate of the drop. ideally, you'd alternate feeding gravy and then the HC meat. you want to be careful you don't "fill kitty up" because you'll want to continue feeding silver.
just an idea...
hello ladies,
i wish i could help out, but i'm out more than i'm in this weekend. it's just one of those weekends with tons of stuff happening. however, just wanted to throw an idea out there for your consideration...
it looks to me like silver's currently in the blues and doesn't really need to drop any further. what about aborting the cycle? we've done this before in the Lantus TR group in the case of an over dose and kitty was dropping too rapidly. you'd still have to feed the curve, but instead of feeding LC or MC you'd want to feed HC. the amount would have to be determined by where you are in the cycle and the rate of the drop. ideally, you'd alternate feeding gravy and then the HC meat. you want to be careful you don't "fill kitty up" because you'll want to continue feeding silver.
just an idea...
KittyMom777
Member Since 2014
Re: 11/15 Silver AMPS 18 (324) changing dose weekend.
I'm sorry - I'm too new to understand the jargon. He's on the way up again. If he's in the yellows at +8 then it looks like a pretty good curve today right? Vet would like me to contine with 2u BID this weekend so if nothing looks too crazy ie high bounces or scary lows, I think I should give her a chance. I need the support of the forum and will keep posting and checking.
Jill & Alex (GA) said:
I'm sorry - I'm too new to understand the jargon. He's on the way up again. If he's in the yellows at +8 then it looks like a pretty good curve today right? Vet would like me to contine with 2u BID this weekend so if nothing looks too crazy ie high bounces or scary lows, I think I should give her a chance. I need the support of the forum and will keep posting and checking.
Ann & Tess GA
Member Since 2010
Re: 11/15 Silver AMPS 18 (324) changing dose weekend.
Silver seems to be surfing blue, when was the last food? I'd keep testing at least hourly, increasing the dose can do funny things for a few days.
Silver seems to be surfing blue, when was the last food? I'd keep testing at least hourly, increasing the dose can do funny things for a few days.
KittyMom777
Member Since 2014
Re: 11/15 Silver AMPS 18 (324) changing dose weekend.
He gets fed at 6:30am and 6:30pm with his shot. He's had a low carb treat with each test.
That's a gorgeous pic of Tess
pretty girl.
Ann & Tess said:
He gets fed at 6:30am and 6:30pm with his shot. He's had a low carb treat with each test.
That's a gorgeous pic of Tess
pretty girl.
MommaOfMuse
Member Since 2010
Re: 11/15 Silver AMPS 18 (324) changing dose weekend.
Yep looks he has an early onset of about +1-+2-ish with a nadir at +5. I didn't realize that he had been at 1.5u for 6 cycles. I was thinking he was still at 1u so that's where the near heart attack came from when I saw him dropping fast. I was thinking you'd just doubled his dose.
Okay, no problem, now a .5u is perfect with what limited testing you can get during the week days. If is a little too high for him he'll tell us. But at least so far you know he can get to blue on it.
But its going to a bumpy ride. Just try real hard not to react to the higher numbers when he's bouncing.
Let his liver get use to getting into the blues and if this dose did it once it can do it again.
Normally with the SLGS protocol we normally reduce the dose if the cat gets a reading below 90, but because Silver has such severe neuropathy we want him down as quick as possible.
So here what I'd do if he was one of mine. Since you have 3 days home to test..Test like a mad woman. Go ahead and continue the curve through his Lights Out test. Some cats go lower at night. Then tomorrow or Monday run a second curve but get the odd hours. Gather as much data as possible. Then if he needs another increase do it on your days off so you can see how he's going to react.
Make sense and sound like a plan?
Mel and The Fur Gang
Yep looks he has an early onset of about +1-+2-ish with a nadir at +5. I didn't realize that he had been at 1.5u for 6 cycles. I was thinking he was still at 1u so that's where the near heart attack came from when I saw him dropping fast. I was thinking you'd just doubled his dose.
Okay, no problem, now a .5u is perfect with what limited testing you can get during the week days. If is a little too high for him he'll tell us. But at least so far you know he can get to blue on it.
But its going to a bumpy ride. Just try real hard not to react to the higher numbers when he's bouncing.
Let his liver get use to getting into the blues and if this dose did it once it can do it again.
Normally with the SLGS protocol we normally reduce the dose if the cat gets a reading below 90, but because Silver has such severe neuropathy we want him down as quick as possible.
So here what I'd do if he was one of mine. Since you have 3 days home to test..Test like a mad woman. Go ahead and continue the curve through his Lights Out test. Some cats go lower at night. Then tomorrow or Monday run a second curve but get the odd hours. Gather as much data as possible. Then if he needs another increase do it on your days off so you can see how he's going to react.
Make sense and sound like a plan?
Mel and The Fur Gang
Jill & Alex (GA)
Member Since 2009
Re: 11/15 Silver AMPS 18 (324) changing dose weekend.
which jargon don't you understand? we can help you learn.
yes, things look ok for now, but here's what is important to understand for those using lantus (and levemir for that matter). lantus is not an in and out insulin. lantus is a depot insulin which means the effects are cumulative. one dose builds upon the next. it generally takes about 6 cycles at the same dose to see the full effects of what that dose can do. today you're only seeing the beginning of what 2u can do. the effects will generally become greater as you continue with 2 unts bid.
a safer approach would have been for your vet to have suggested increasing the dose to 1.75 units bid, but the syringe is in your hands. you can take what those in the forum say into consideration, but ultimately, all decisions are yours to make. please understand all suggestions made come from experience...
have to run. i'll check in on you when i get home.
have a good day!
KittyMom777 said:
which jargon don't you understand? we can help you learn.
yes, things look ok for now, but here's what is important to understand for those using lantus (and levemir for that matter). lantus is not an in and out insulin. lantus is a depot insulin which means the effects are cumulative. one dose builds upon the next. it generally takes about 6 cycles at the same dose to see the full effects of what that dose can do. today you're only seeing the beginning of what 2u can do. the effects will generally become greater as you continue with 2 unts bid.
a safer approach would have been for your vet to have suggested increasing the dose to 1.75 units bid, but the syringe is in your hands. you can take what those in the forum say into consideration, but ultimately, all decisions are yours to make. please understand all suggestions made come from experience...
have to run. i'll check in on you when i get home.
have a good day!
julie & punkin (ga)
Member Since 2011
Re: 11/15 Silver AMPS 18 (324) changing dose weekend.
feeding more than twice a day will help smooth out his blood sugar and therefore his cycles. Most people feed more often than that - i regularly fed punkin 4 times a day. He weighed about 13ish pounds and i gave him 1 can of fancy feast with each shot and 1/2 can at +3.
You might find that you can get better cycles, ie less bouncing and fewer fast drops, if you tinker around with how you feed him. If a kitty is a grazer/nibbler, many people just leave the food out and pick it up a couple of hours before the next preshot test. that works too.
Punkin had acro so he would eat everything i put down the second it hit the floor, therefore i had to pay more attention to when in the cycle I fed him. But if Silver is a grazer you might be ok just leaving food out. If he's not a grazer, you might want to break his meal into 2 parts to help smooth the cycle - say most of it with his shot and another bit at +2, +3 or +4, depending on your life and what you find works for him.
feeding more than twice a day will help smooth out his blood sugar and therefore his cycles. Most people feed more often than that - i regularly fed punkin 4 times a day. He weighed about 13ish pounds and i gave him 1 can of fancy feast with each shot and 1/2 can at +3.
You might find that you can get better cycles, ie less bouncing and fewer fast drops, if you tinker around with how you feed him. If a kitty is a grazer/nibbler, many people just leave the food out and pick it up a couple of hours before the next preshot test. that works too.
Punkin had acro so he would eat everything i put down the second it hit the floor, therefore i had to pay more attention to when in the cycle I fed him. But if Silver is a grazer you might be ok just leaving food out. If he's not a grazer, you might want to break his meal into 2 parts to help smooth the cycle - say most of it with his shot and another bit at +2, +3 or +4, depending on your life and what you find works for him.
KittyMom777
Member Since 2014
Re: 11/15 Silver AMPS 18 (324) changing dose weekend.
Thanks for all the comments.
Mel, thanks. I know you've been with me for a while on this. I'm out for a couple hrs on Sunday (I can do a + 3 and will be home in time to do a + 7). Monday I'm sitting my driving test so I can do a + 2 then back in time for a + 6.
Jill - not sure what 'aborting the cycle' means or LC, MC, and HC means.
Julie - you probably haven't seen from earlier posts but I work full time with a 2 hour each way commute so I can only feed every 12 hours. Silver is a horse in disguise and between him and my girl Sasha, any food I left down would be gone before I even left the house!
Juliet and Silver
Thanks for all the comments.
Mel, thanks. I know you've been with me for a while on this. I'm out for a couple hrs on Sunday (I can do a + 3 and will be home in time to do a + 7). Monday I'm sitting my driving test so I can do a + 2 then back in time for a + 6.
Jill - not sure what 'aborting the cycle' means or LC, MC, and HC means.
Julie - you probably haven't seen from earlier posts but I work full time with a 2 hour each way commute so I can only feed every 12 hours. Silver is a horse in disguise and between him and my girl Sasha, any food I left down would be gone before I even left the house!
Juliet and Silver
Ann & Tess GA
Member Since 2010
Re: 11/15 Silver AMPS 18 (324) changing dose weekend.
So you gave nothing to slow the drop? It looks like a really nice surf then. Often when we see a fast drop we will start w/ just a little LC (low carb) food to slow things dow and if that doesn't work move up to MC (medium carb) or HC (high carb). Aborting the cycle means feeding lots of carbs to bring the BG up quickly and keep it there.
Many of us spread the food out into several meals to spread out the load on the pancreas. It may help level Silver's numbers out. if you aren't home during the day there are ways to do it w/ frozen "catsicles" or timed feeders.
p.s. Tess says thank you! But you should see her when she gets dressed up!
So you gave nothing to slow the drop? It looks like a really nice surf then. Often when we see a fast drop we will start w/ just a little LC (low carb) food to slow things dow and if that doesn't work move up to MC (medium carb) or HC (high carb). Aborting the cycle means feeding lots of carbs to bring the BG up quickly and keep it there.
Many of us spread the food out into several meals to spread out the load on the pancreas. It may help level Silver's numbers out. if you aren't home during the day there are ways to do it w/ frozen "catsicles" or timed feeders.
p.s. Tess says thank you! But you should see her when she gets dressed up!
julie & punkin (ga)
Member Since 2011
Re: 11/15 Silver AMPS 18 (324) changing dose weekend.
yikes - a 2 hr commute! no, i didn't know that. that's hard.
Well . . . one option might be to buy 2 timed feeders and have them open for both cats at the same time. I don't know if that works for you, but i'll at least throw it out there. Punkin wouldn't have left any food for later either. I'm always very impressed with cats who are delicate eaters hahahahaha. I had the PetSafe 5 Compartment Feeder to help when I was at work. It gave me a lot of peace of mind because I knew that he could be counted on to eat no matter what. If i had a lower than usual preshot, I put food in all 4 compartments and had them open every half hour or so from +3 on.
When you have low numbers, you provide food to pull them back up into a safe range. So while a feeder isn't a substitute for a person who can test, it's the next best thing for someone who can't be there. That particular feeder can have 4 covered compartments. Some people will look at the preshot number and decide, based on what they've learned about their cat, that they'd like to give some food at +2, +3 and +4 (just as an example.) It's the kind of thing that you figure out how your cat works and then you set the feeder to work with him. With 2 kitties, you'd want 2 feeders opening at the same time, just to make sure that Silver got food and not just Sasha. (cute names, by the way.)
The abbreviations:
abort the cycle means that you don't want to see how low the cycle might go, so you give high carb food to interrupt the natural Lantus cycle and bring the cat's blood sugar up. People often do that if they need to go to sleep.
lc = low carb canned cat food (less than 10% carbs)
mc = medium carb
hc = high carb (most people consider over 15% high carbs)
yikes - a 2 hr commute! no, i didn't know that. that's hard.
Well . . . one option might be to buy 2 timed feeders and have them open for both cats at the same time. I don't know if that works for you, but i'll at least throw it out there. Punkin wouldn't have left any food for later either. I'm always very impressed with cats who are delicate eaters hahahahaha. I had the PetSafe 5 Compartment Feeder to help when I was at work. It gave me a lot of peace of mind because I knew that he could be counted on to eat no matter what. If i had a lower than usual preshot, I put food in all 4 compartments and had them open every half hour or so from +3 on.
When you have low numbers, you provide food to pull them back up into a safe range. So while a feeder isn't a substitute for a person who can test, it's the next best thing for someone who can't be there. That particular feeder can have 4 covered compartments. Some people will look at the preshot number and decide, based on what they've learned about their cat, that they'd like to give some food at +2, +3 and +4 (just as an example.) It's the kind of thing that you figure out how your cat works and then you set the feeder to work with him. With 2 kitties, you'd want 2 feeders opening at the same time, just to make sure that Silver got food and not just Sasha. (cute names, by the way.)
The abbreviations:
abort the cycle means that you don't want to see how low the cycle might go, so you give high carb food to interrupt the natural Lantus cycle and bring the cat's blood sugar up. People often do that if they need to go to sleep.
lc = low carb canned cat food (less than 10% carbs)
mc = medium carb
hc = high carb (most people consider over 15% high carbs)
KittyMom777
Member Since 2014
Re: 11/15 Silver AMPS 18 (324) changing dose weekend.
The difficulty with leaving food out is that my other cat is extremely overweight and I need to monitor her eating and control her portions.
Ann, that's right. I haven't fed him to get his numbers up.
The difficulty with leaving food out is that my other cat is extremely overweight and I need to monitor her eating and control her portions.
Ann, that's right. I haven't fed him to get his numbers up.
KittyMom777
Member Since 2014
Re: 11/15 Silver AMPS 18 (324) changing dose weekend.
+ 8 = 17 (306). Would have preferred a yellow number at this point.
+ 8 = 17 (306). Would have preferred a yellow number at this point.
MommaOfMuse
Member Since 2010
Re: 11/15 Silver AMPS 18 (324) changing dose weekend.
That's the bounce starting from going lower than he has seen in awhile.
If you got two timed feeders you could set them to open for both cats at the same time, just in different rooms of the house? I know there are some that you can record your voice on so you could record your voice calling them to where their personal feeder is at, maybe.
Jill and I are worried about the same thing right now is that this was the first dose of the increase and he had a very extreme reaction to it. This is where working with a depot insulin gets tricky and what we see a lot of vets don't understand. It's not an In and Out insulin like NPH or even the P-insulins like PZI or ProZinc. In that it builds up time released crystals under the skin. You usually don't see the effects of a dose increase or decrease right away. It takes several days for the depot under the skin to adjust so that Silver is getting the full benefit of the dose change. If he went to fairly low blues today, there is a good possibility that tomorrow's dose at the same 2u is going to sink him into hypo range.
While you can raise a dose by .5 if is much safer to go up by .25u with each raise. I know it is hard when you are getting two conflicting sources of information. But everyone that has responded to you today I would trust with the life of my own furry babies. Jill, Ann and Julie have years of experience. They've being doing this longer than I have even.
But the decision is ultimately your's to make, we are just trying to help you make the most informed choice you can by giving you the pros and cons of the decision to raise to 2u twice daily or BID.
A cycle is the period of time between one shot to the next, each day has two cycles in it, an a.m. and a p.m.
Mel and The Fur Gang
That's the bounce starting from going lower than he has seen in awhile.
If you got two timed feeders you could set them to open for both cats at the same time, just in different rooms of the house? I know there are some that you can record your voice on so you could record your voice calling them to where their personal feeder is at, maybe.
Jill and I are worried about the same thing right now is that this was the first dose of the increase and he had a very extreme reaction to it. This is where working with a depot insulin gets tricky and what we see a lot of vets don't understand. It's not an In and Out insulin like NPH or even the P-insulins like PZI or ProZinc. In that it builds up time released crystals under the skin. You usually don't see the effects of a dose increase or decrease right away. It takes several days for the depot under the skin to adjust so that Silver is getting the full benefit of the dose change. If he went to fairly low blues today, there is a good possibility that tomorrow's dose at the same 2u is going to sink him into hypo range.
While you can raise a dose by .5 if is much safer to go up by .25u with each raise. I know it is hard when you are getting two conflicting sources of information. But everyone that has responded to you today I would trust with the life of my own furry babies. Jill, Ann and Julie have years of experience. They've being doing this longer than I have even.
But the decision is ultimately your's to make, we are just trying to help you make the most informed choice you can by giving you the pros and cons of the decision to raise to 2u twice daily or BID.
A cycle is the period of time between one shot to the next, each day has two cycles in it, an a.m. and a p.m.
Mel and The Fur Gang
Jill & Alex (GA)
Member Since 2009
Re: 11/15 Silver AMPS 18 (324) changing dose weekend.
yes, mel and i are definitely on the same page with this 2u dose.MommaOfMuse said:
KittyMom777
Member Since 2014
Re: 11/15 Silver AMPS 18 (324) changing dose weekend.
I hear you and I get it. I just feel I need to give the vet a chance. I'm home tomorrow too so even if he drops into greens I'm here. I can't do 1/4 units it's hard enough to do 1/2 units. I have tried but I can't get the syringes. I phoned 5 stores yesterday and none have half unit markings. Have to make do with the supplies available to me.
I'm expecting his +10 and preshot will likely take him into the reds. I have 5 more cycles til I return to work so hopefully that will give a picture. You know it's funny but he could have been dropping into low blues all along. If you look at his last curve and even at today if you imagine it was a working day and only look at AMPS and PMPS it's probably going to look the same. Would you agree?
He's not come to any harm thank goodness today. I get what you're saying re the depot so I'll watch just as much tomorrow.
Juliet and a purringly content Silver.
I hear you and I get it. I just feel I need to give the vet a chance. I'm home tomorrow too so even if he drops into greens I'm here. I can't do 1/4 units it's hard enough to do 1/2 units. I have tried but I can't get the syringes. I phoned 5 stores yesterday and none have half unit markings. Have to make do with the supplies available to me.
I'm expecting his +10 and preshot will likely take him into the reds. I have 5 more cycles til I return to work so hopefully that will give a picture. You know it's funny but he could have been dropping into low blues all along. If you look at his last curve and even at today if you imagine it was a working day and only look at AMPS and PMPS it's probably going to look the same. Would you agree?
He's not come to any harm thank goodness today. I get what you're saying re the depot so I'll watch just as much tomorrow.
Juliet and a purringly content Silver.
KittyMom777
Member Since 2014
Re: 11/15 Silver AMPS 18 (324) changing dose weekend.
[quote="Jill & Alex (GA)"
yes, mel and i are definitely on the same page with this 2u dose.[/quote]
He only went up half a unit - I've seen others on here change by more than that. Been reading several SS. I think he's been ok today. I really do appreciate the support more than you know but my vet has asked me to do this and I have to give her a chance.
[quote="Jill & Alex (GA)"
yes, mel and i are definitely on the same page with this 2u dose.
[/quote]He only went up half a unit - I've seen others on here change by more than that. Been reading several SS. I think he's been ok today. I really do appreciate the support more than you know but my vet has asked me to do this and I have to give her a chance.
KittyMom777
Member Since 2014
Re: 11/15 Silver AMPS 18 (324) changing dose weekend.
+10 = 20.9
+10 = 20.9
MommaOfMuse
Member Since 2010
Re: 11/15 Silver AMPS 18 (324) changing dose weekend.
Okay hon, we'll just keep an eye on you over the weekend. We'll try to help you spot red flags and keep Silver safe. I promise.
Mel and The Fur Gang
Okay hon, we'll just keep an eye on you over the weekend. We'll try to help you spot red flags and keep Silver safe. I promise.
Mel and The Fur Gang
KittyMom777
Member Since 2014
Re: 11/15 Silver AMPS 18 (324) changing dose weekend.
Thank you Mel. :smile:
MommaOfMuse said:
Thank you Mel. :smile:
Ann & Tess GA
Member Since 2010
Re: 11/15 Silver AMPS 18 (324) changing dose weekend.
Many of us use calipers set to the dose to consistently give the same dose. Often the markings are irregularly printed on the syringes. Dosing w/ Calipers It makes figuring out the .25 increase really easy.
If You are using BD syringes the German group has a ruler to hold the syringe up to for exact dosing. What are you using? I'll see if I can find the link.
KittyMom777 said:
Many of us use calipers set to the dose to consistently give the same dose. Often the markings are irregularly printed on the syringes. Dosing w/ Calipers It makes figuring out the .25 increase really easy.
If You are using BD syringes the German group has a ruler to hold the syringe up to for exact dosing. What are you using? I'll see if I can find the link.
KittyMom777
Member Since 2014
Re: 11/15 Silver AMPS 18 (324) changing dose weekend.
BD U-100 needles. What's a calipher?
It would have to be a Canadian supplier.
BD U-100 needles. What's a calipher?
It would have to be a Canadian supplier.
Ann & Tess GA
Member Since 2010
Re: 11/15 Silver AMPS 18 (324) changing dose weekend.
A caliper is a measuring too that you can lock into a specific measurement. Then just hold it up to the syringe and adjust the dose. Most hardware stores will have them. Calipers w/ digital readouts let you set the measurement then lock it in when you adjust the dose. This is the one that many of us use. But you should be able to find one locally. Or on Amazon! ;-) Gotta go, Shot time!
A caliper is a measuring too that you can lock into a specific measurement. Then just hold it up to the syringe and adjust the dose. Most hardware stores will have them. Calipers w/ digital readouts let you set the measurement then lock it in when you adjust the dose. This is the one that many of us use. But you should be able to find one locally. Or on Amazon! ;-) Gotta go, Shot time!
Re: 11/15 Silver AMPS 18 (324) changing dose weekend.
Hi Juliet, sorry you're having a hard time getting the right syringes:
Hi Juliet, sorry you're having a hard time getting the right syringes:
The syringes you want are the ones in the purple and yellow boxes. That's what diabetic children will often use. I've often heard pharmacists say they don't have 1/2 unit marked syringes, but if you point out the purple/yellow box, then they realize they do. In my case, the pharmacist showed me what syringe to use, because that particular store sells a lot for diabetic cats. It's BD Catalog # 328440 if that helps them.
KittyMom777
Member Since 2014
Re: 11/15 Silver AMPS 18 (324) changing dose weekend.
Thanks Wendy & Neko.
Well it's been a ride of highs and lows. His +4 is 12.9
Thanks Wendy & Neko.
Well it's been a ride of highs and lows. His +4 is 12.9
Ann & Tess GA
Member Since 2010
BD Catalog # 328440
Not purple and yellow, but maybe there is new packaging or different in Canada.
You can print out the page and image and see if they can get them in for you.
You can print out the page and image and see if they can get them in for you.
This is a picture of what they look like in Canada.
http://www.diabetesexpress.ca/syrin...rafine-syringe-310cc-320440-100box-p-978.html
http://www.diabetesexpress.ca/syrin...rafine-syringe-310cc-320440-100box-p-978.html
KittyMom777
Member Since 2014
Wendy&Neko said:
This is awesome thank you! This company is very close to where I live! Much appreciated
Juliet and Silver
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