10/10 Ozy 389

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I don't see any reason why I shouldn't take him higher tonight. He isn't going to come down on this dose. I see no point in waiting.... the protocol is a GUIDE not a set of hard rules.

I am not finding looking at those example SS's of any use to me. It just looks like a bunch of numbers to me. No pattern. No rhyme or reason. I also find things like this say that it is pretty random.

Carl said: "Don't assume that what worked last week will work the same way this week.
And don't assume that what fails this week will fail next week."

And Carl, YOU only did this TEN weeks. And YOU did what you wanted. Your cat went into remission. And apparently it wasn't because you followed the protocol.

This is just all crazy. I think you are all just smoking your socks.

And why this quote, which appears all over, "better high for a day than low for a moment".... that, to me says "never raise the dose". I am not asking anybody to answer. I don't think I would believe what you say anyway.

I am going to do it my way for a while and see what happens. My way can't be worse than this. I will keep my SS up to date. I will NOT be looking here.

This is driving me crazy and Ozy isn't coming down. He is as high as when he started.

Signing out.
 
I don't see any reason why I shouldn't take him higher tonight. He isn't going to come down on this dose. I see no point in waiting.... the protocol is a GUIDE not a set of hard rules.

There's nothing stopping you from increasing the dose. Actually, the protocol says you can do so after 3 days.

I am not finding looking at those example SS's of any use to me. It just looks like a bunch of numbers to me. No pattern. No rhyme or reason.

I understand that. But that doesn't mean the examples don't apply. It doesn't mean the patterns aren't there. It just means that you can't see them. Dozens of other people can. And they have all been trying to help you to see them.

I also find things like this say that it is pretty random.
Carl said: "Don't assume that what worked last week will work the same way this week.
And don't assume that what fails this week will fail next week."

You've taken this out of context. There are examples of exactly what I described in Ozy's spreadsheet. Pretty much on every spreadsheet. Ozy's "best doses" so far have been 3.75u and 3.5u. Lots of greens and blues. To me, that sticks out like a sore thumb on his SS. You can't see that, but I can, and so can others. It's fairly likely that he'll need to go back up to those doses.

And Carl, YOU only did this TEN weeks. And YOU did what you wanted. Your cat went into remission. And apparently it wasn't because you followed the protocol.

And I feel blessed that I only did it for 10 weeks, and that Bob went into remission. And I've said many times that Bob went OTJ in spite of me, not because of me.
But did I do what I wanted? No, not at all, Donaleen. In fact, I didn't want to do ANY of it. And did I follow "the protocol"? No, I didn't. Because there wasn't a protocol for me to follow. There isn't a TR protocol for compounded PZI that is used "here". There was nothing for me to print out. Nothing that told me when to adjust a dose up or down, or how much to adjust. No "number of cycles" to look at to see what to do next. You don't grasp how lucky you are to have a set of "guidelines to follow", or have 20 or more people to help you out every time you ask a question.

In fact, there is nobody here, on any forum, that used insulin like I did with Bob. Nobody. Bob got two shots a day, anywhere from .25u to 4u. And he got the shots not in the scruff, or any other "sub-q" location. He got stuck into the muscles of his back legs, twice a day, every day, for 10 weeks. And every single time I gave him a shot, I worried that it was going to kill him. Not just push his numbers down to 49 so I could cut his dose by .25u. No, I was convinced that he was going to DIE because of the way I was doing this stupid "dance". The very first time I mentioned that Bob was getting "IM" shots, I was told plainly that insulin isn't supposed to be shot that way. Ever. But that is exactly what my vet told me to do, and she explained why. What I never got was anyone to tell me "why not". So I kept doing it. And I never asked for any advice on dosage, or anything having to do with insulin. Because there was NOBODY to ask. Does that sound like ten weeks of fun to you? I absolutely flew by the seat of my patience pants, took it one day at a time, and used my best judgement to decide how much juice to shoot on a shot by shot basis. He survived by some miracle.

Yet, here I sit, over two years later, and right below my chair, there sits Bob. Fat and happy, and probably really happy he's no longer getting a half inch long needle stuck into his legs twice a day anymore.

And why this quote, which appears all over, "better high for a day than low for a moment".... that, to me says "never raise the dose".

Again, where's the context? Yes, you see that a lot. It's one of the better ways to say "If you aren't sure, either skip or shoot less". Mostly to new people, or to somebody who is questioning whether to shoot a low number. Or isn't going to be home to monitor after the shot. Yes, a cat is better off with high numbers than to go too low. It's usually followed up with "high numbers kill slowly. Low numbers can kill very quickly." Another way it could be said is "Better red than dead" but that's a little too blunt.

I don't think I would believe what you say anyway.

Sadly, you have no idea how much that one sentence hurts anyone who has ever tried to help you.

I am going to do it my way for a while and see what happens. My way can't be worse than this. I will keep my SS up to date. I will NOT be looking here.

All I can hope is that "your way" is as safe as "our way". For Ozy's sake as well as for yours. And I hope that one day you come to understand that no matter what you do, or which way you choose to go, that you will NEVER have the degree of control over feline diabetes that you seem to require. Ozy is in charge. Not you.

This is driving me crazy and Ozy isn't coming down. He is as high as when he started.
Ozy is in the middle of a three day bounce. He probably needs an increase. But if you honestly believe that he's no better off than he was the day you started insulin, that is very sad to me. Anyone who can look at a spreadsheet and understand what it is telling them would disagree. It's glaringly obvious to them. If "we" have failed in any way, it is in that we have been unable to make you understand what the spreadsheet is telling you.
 
Good luck Donaleen. I hope Ozy comes down for you soon. Please pop in for a visit if you have questions.

I think the point of some of the SS examples you were given were to show that sometimes the dose goes up, then down, then up and up, then down and down, then up, then down. You just dose according to the nadirs you are getting and if it means going up, so be it. At some point the cat's liver will get it and the SS will flatten out. And the numbers seem random to all of us. The only control we have over the numbers are the food and the amount of insulin we give. The rest is under control of the cat. I've been doing this for over a year and a half, and Neko is just starting to flatten out a little. Of course, being an acrocat has even more variables in the mix, but I still try to dose to put the nadir where I want it to be. And she is now on a lot less insulin than her max dose.
 
Hi Donaleen

Im kind of new here but what jumps out to me is that your SS is really BUSY. There is just a LOT of information on it and that may be making it harder for you to see patterns.

I have a note pad (not online) with really detailed info like exact feeding times and exact times of BG tests and shots etc, and a lot of random theories about what is happening. All so I can refer back to it if I need to. And my SS is just BG numbers and a few pertinent notes in the notes section. That way the colors pop out at you instead of all the chaos of extra information. Its a LOT easier to see patterns that way.

Thats just what works for me though. You gotta do what you gotta do.

I wish you the best
 
((((donaleen))))

I think one of the hardest things to do is to pick out patterns on your own cat's SS. I call it my "can't see the forest for the trees" phenomenon. We stare and stare and stare at the SS and try to see what is going on. For me, what makes it so difficult is that the CG is there with the kitty watching him/her not feel well, drinking more water, peeing more, not moving. Our kitties are not just their numbers.

So it's really important that we have help to pick out the patterns. Even our most experienced members sometimes just need other eyes on the SS because they are so close to the cat and the numbers that they fail to see the patterns.

I was the maximum control freak when we were new. It did not make sense to me that I'd would give an insulin dose and get a small response and I'd increase the dose but I wouldn't see a commensurate response. I think every member added to our condo multiple times that they just followed their kitty's lead in the sugar dance. But I didn't want to follow the lead...I wanted to manipulate Gracies numbers to be what I wanted them to be.

FD has taught me so much. It has taught me that I am not in control. My education and experience do not matter...I am not in control. Can I do my best to support Gracie? Yes. Can I increase the dose to get more green? Yes but I have to do it safely and listen to Gracie and what her BG is telling me. FD has taught me patience....well, as much as I am ever likely to learn patience. :smile: Have I made mistakes? A million, I am sure :-D Gracie has been very forgiving.

I hope you will be back. You have so much to contribute. I hope you will take the TR protocol to heart because it already is designed to be aggressive. If you want to be more aggressive than that, it's your decision but remember there is a reason we make small changes and give them time to settle. One can easily overdose a cat and sometimes too much insulin looks the same as too little. It's not necessarily true that too much will always cause them to drop really low. So please, I just ask that you not be more aggressive than the TR protocol.

One last thing.....of all the things I've done in my life and all the challenges I've had, I have to say FD has been the hardest. Why? Because I am not in control.
 
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