11/27Tigger PMPS/438+3/48+3.5/53 +4/68 Reduce Tomorrow?

Good afternoon, LL!

Tigger's surgery condo

(((Wendy, Julie, Marje, Chris, Mariko, Carl, Ella, Amy, Jamie, Rhiannon, Dyana))), I want to sincerely thank all of you from the bottom of my heart for sharing your wisdom, thoughts & prayers for us these past few days. o

I took Tigger in at 11AM this morning - all 5ps were in order - good pee, no ketones, good poop, appetite (poor Tig would trot over to his eating area every time I came into the bedroom, sit & look at me expectantly - 'please'?. I had to hug him & tell him not yet, but he sure kept trying).

After that I didn't hear anything which is usually good news, but I couldn't stand it anymore & called at 2PM. Luckily they'd just finished & I got to speak w/ Dr. W. Everything went great! First & foremost, she's convinced there's no retained root ( :shock: ). They opened him up inside his mouth behind the last upper molar, but there was no drainage. I guess this means it was all in the orbital area of the socket in front of the skull. Dr. W. then made 2 small openings on both sides of his eye (on the outside) & installed 2 small drains that I can remove Sat. or Monday if he'll let me cut the sutures. He'll have to wear a cone until then. :cry: Poor Tigger.

Dr. W. had 2nd thoughts about removing the prosthetic eye at this time - she was worried about a big incision over the eye & having it close on an infected wound. I'm disappointed, but I trust her judgment - I guess she felt Tigger already had enough stuff going on. After hearing Carl's story about Winky, I was looking forward to having a 'naked' eye, especially knowing the ball's silicone, but I imagine I can ask them to do it the next time Tigger has a dental or ??? (well, hopefully there's not going to be any more ???s)

Dr. W's not sure what caused the infection - maybe he bit down on something & it got seated in his oral cavity, or its a remnant from the URI - no one knows. So we retain the title of Odd Occurrances, Unknown Weirdities, and Bizarre Ailments. ohmygod_smile

We're going to culture the pussy goo to make sure the ABs we're using are effective - she wants to knock it out this time forever. Me, too!!! I guess there was too much pus for the Clindamycin to be effective - once the pus starts forming unless it can drain, the ABs aren't able to overcome the infection.

I can give him .2mls Bupe for pain. :?: Does that sound like too much for a 14.2 lb Big Boy? I was giving him .075 - .1.

Also, They said his BG was 328 before surgery and his high was in the low 500's. nailbite_smile She opted not to give him any R because she didn't want him to drop too fast. I told her he did well with it the last time, but I think she's conservative around that. I upped his dose yesterday AM to a f1.75, but he's been in the 300's since Sat & now prob. 400's at least. :?: Should I increase his dose again tonight? I know that's bouncing him around alot, but I don't like to see him so high. On the other hand, if he's feeling alot better quickly, will an increase cause him to bottom out on Thanksgiving??? I'd love any input from you experienced members!!!

I can leave in 30 min to an hour to pick him up. I may let Tigger stay there that extra 30 min. Last time he was pretty active when he got home - this way he'll have to stay still for awhile.

I'll update you with his progress & BG as soon as I get him home & settled in! I'll try & get a photo, too - but I dropped our camera & the lens is stuck half-open ohmygod_smile :cry: . Will dig out the old crappy camera.

Thanks again EVERYONE for your support - once again the power of LL helps another kitty! :YMHUG:

 

Re: 11/27 Tigger AMPS/386 - Out of Surgery! Dose Ques??

Great to hear he's out of surgery and doing well!!

No real dose advice from me since the anesthetic can cause some craziness...I know I've read that it's best to be conservative after surgery because the anesthetic can cause some lower than expected numbers, but if he's in the 400's, and he's already had 2 doses at the 2.81, as long as you're able to test tonight, I don't know why you wouldn't go with that..especially if he didn't get any insulin today.

I'm sure you'll hear from more experienced eyes, but I just wanted to let you know I'm thrilled he's done and on his way home soon. It's great that they're culturing the goo too so you can make sure he's getting the right antibiotic!!

 

Re: 11/27 Tigger AMPS/386 - Out of Surgery! Dose Ques??

I would suggest testing Tigger when he's home and settled. Anesthesia can have an effect on BG causing it to drop, although this tends to be more of a concern during a surgical procedure. There can be residual effects. In addition, if they were messing around in Tigger's mouth, there's no way to know what his appetite will be like. Let's see how he's doing once he's home. You'll want to feed in small amounts so there's no scarf and barf. Between the anesthesia and appetite, I would lean away from increasing and wait to see what the numbers look like once he's home.

Are they keeping him on an AB until the culture is back?

 

Re: 11/27 Tigger AMPS/386 - Out of Surgery! Dose Ques??

Thank you so much China & Sienne, both your posts make sense.

Tigger's current BG shortly after getting home is +10/483. It's a madhouse here with company!

He is walking around with a cone on, & much happier with the run of the house rather than in the bedroom. He's been running to his 2 dining areas, so I think he's hungry. I'll get another BG at +11.

He'll stay on the Clindamycin 3mls 1x daily until contraindicated. He had a Covenia injection yesterday. He had Bupe at 1PM & will get .2mls at 8-9PM.

Gotta make dinner for company - back in a few.

 

Re: 11/27 Tigger AMPS/386 - Out of Surgery! Dose Ques??

I'm glad Tigger is home and enjoying his kingdom. I hope you get the right AB soon so he can get on the road to feeling good again. Happy Turkey Day!!

 

Re: 11/27 Tigger AMPS/386 +10/483 +11/428 Out of surgery - D

Thank you for visiting, Tara!

OK, to re-cap,

Surgery was sometime between 11:30 & 12:30, with Bupe at around 1:00PM

+10/483 as soon as we got home
+11/428

I'll wait to feed any food until after the PS test. Vet tech said he should be able to eat normally by 7:15 food time, but should I feed him maybe every 30 minutes rather than PS, +1, 2, & 3?


Thanks so much for all your help!

 

Re: 11/27 Tigger AMPS/386 +10/483 +11/428 food & dose advice

Sounds like Tigger's surgery went well today. Paws crossed for a quick recovery.

When feeding, small amounts more frequently is preferred to prevent scarf and barf. So a couple tsp every 30 minutes might be a good idea.

 

Re: 11/27 Tigger AMPS/386 +10/483 +11/428 food & dose advice

I think you should be fine to shoot your regular dose. Maybe to be on the safe side you should feed every 30 min. The anesthesia can make a kitty hungry so Tigger may eat too fast if you give him his full meal.

 

Re: 11/27 Tigger AMPS/386 +10/483 +11/428 food & dose advice

Hey Suzanne,
So good to hear Tigger's surgery went well! Prayers for a quick recovery and he can get back to running the show. Thinking of you both :YMHUG:

 

Re: 11/27 Tigger AMPS/386 +10/483 +11/428 food & dose advice

I'm sorry I'm late, but I am glad all went well with Tigger today. Sending tons of healing vines and prayers your way!!

 

Re: 11/27 Tigger AMPS/386 +10/483 +11/428 food & dose advice

Hi Suzanne,

So happy to hear that Tigger is home and all went well. I hope he continues feeling better and that this is the last he has any problems like this~

 

Re: 11/27 Tigger AMPS/386 +10/483 +11/428 food & dose advice

Thanks for visiting and for your advice & support, (((Wendy, Sienne, Kim, Amy, & Jane))). Sure am glad I found the FDMB - I don't know where we'd be or if I'd still be using insulin if it weren't for the support of this Board. :YMHUG:

Tigger's PMPS is 438, I've been giving him a few tsp every 30 min. as you all suggested & so far so good. You're right - he is extremely hungry, so I'm mashing to food on the plate so he has to work a little to eat. After another 30 min. (1.5 hrs I'll move Tigger up to a tablespoon if he's still doing well.

He has 2 drain holes, one at the top & the other at the bottom of his eye. I can understand now why the vet didn't want to make an additional slit opening the eye to get the prosthetic out. There's a lot of sticky bloody pus draining out, & due to the pain & swelling, I don't know if I should try cleaning him today or wait - I'm not sure how to clean him that won't hurt - alot of this is drying & sticky. Does anyone have any suggestions? The vet said I could give him warm compresses for a few minutes twice a day if he'll allow - that may loosen some of it up, but it's only been a few hours & it's scary looking :?

:?: Also, if his BG is still in the high 300's or level 300's tomorrow, & on, when should I be looking at another dosecrease? Am I still going by the standard protocol when an infection's involved?

I'll see if I can get any good photos for you to see.......

 

Re: 11/27 Tigger PMPS/438 wound cleaning & dose advice?

Might try cotton balls with just warm water and see if he'll let you gently wipe off some of the ickier stuff.

Good to hear he's keeping his fuds down too! When he gets all healed up from this, he'll be a new cat! Sounds like he would have been pretty miserable with all that gunk inside.

 

Re: 11/27 Tigger PMPS/438 wound cleaning & dose advice?

Wow! I'm just getting caught up, I'm so sorry to hear that Tigger and you had to go all through this. I hope this clears things up once and for all though. Tess says she's on her way w/ the KTSS. He has to be rid of all that vetty smell for the holiday tomorrow. I hope he gets his fair share of the turkey.S crew for Tigg

 

Re: 11/27 Tigger PMPS/438 wound cleaning & dose advice?

I'm glad Tigger is home and things went well. I think the bupe dose sounds fine. If you are worried it is too much, you can try a little bit less.

I'd play the insulin by ear tonight and see where he is tomorrow.

 

Re: 11/27 Tigger PMPS/438 +1.5/221 wound cleaning & dose adv

Oh Suzanne, I am so glad the procedure went well and Tigger is doing fine.
He is a tough boy!!!!

Lucy was on bupe when she had a pancreatitis flare recently.
She is a little over 11lb, and I gave her 0.2ml every 8 hours.
Maybe it's a bit more than most people give (?), but I didn't want to risk having it wear off and Lucy feeling pain.
I played around a bit before I settled, 0.25ml (vet's original Rx) made her wobbly.
skinny 0.2ml didn't seem to quite last until the next dose.
Fat 0.2ml every 12 hrs didn't quite last until the next dose.
So I settled on 0.2ml every 8 hrs, and that put Lucy in a happy place, not zombie or in pain, just happy.
I even got lots of mats/knots out while she was on bupe. :lol:

 

Re: 11/27 Tigger PMPS/438 +1.5/221 wound cleaning & dose adv

((Suzanne)) You're such a good mamabean!!!! Congrats on a successful surgery, Tigger! Now, time for you to heal quickly and well and bring those BGs down. Sending healing vines for Tigger and comfort vines for you! Happy early Thanksgiving!

 

Re: 11/27 Tigger PMPS/438 +1.5/221 wound cleaning & dose adv

These are the best photos I could get - had to hold Tigger on my lap & just aim with my arm stretched out - ohmygod_smile he's a bit of a wiggle-butt right now from the anesthesia.

Tigger' BGs falling pretty fast - 200 pts in 1.5 hrs so I'm going to need to test him often, especially without having much food in his system. I may switch to 9% now just to keep him on the safe side if he's much lower in 30 min.

:?: I'm having a hard time testing with this cone on, but don't want to take it off - not sure I can get it back on w/o banging his eye. I'm thinking of cutting a portion of it down at the ears - does anyone have a better idea? Thanks!!!

If anyone has any other suggestions for Tigger, I'm very open!!!

PS - Hi Ann! Great to hear from you! Yes! Plez send the KTs crew - we need the works!

 

Re: 11/27 Tigger PMPS/438 +1.5/221 wound cleaning & PHOTOS!

I second Chris's note for cleaning. Warm wet baby face cloths or gauze pads work too for cleaning. Don't wipe, just hold against the ick for a bit.

Have you tried pricking the underside of Tigger's ear? Some people with black cats have to do that to see a blood drop. Might be easier to get at with the cone on. Good plan on the higher carb. How's his appy?

 

Re: 11/27 Tigger PMPS/438 +1.5/221 +2/129 yikes! (+ photos)

Looks like we've got a cannonball dropping here
PMPS/438
+1.5/221
+2/129

This is approx. 30 min, after the bupe.

At a 100 point drop in 30 min, I'm going to try & pre-empt this with 2 tsp gravy. Just fed him. If I should be more aggressive, let me know! nailbite_smile

Re-test in 0:20 min.

 

Re: 11/27Tigger PMPS/438+1.5/221+2/129 +2.5/82 too fast +pho

Hmm - time to break out the karo on top of his gravy? Kind of early in the cycle for this drop. nailbite_smile nailbite_smile

 

Re: 11/27Tigger PMPS/438+1.5/221+2/129 +2.5/82 too fast +pho

ooooh, I'm not gonna wanna see the bounce after this 533 to 82 day...... nailbite_smile

Well, we're in the lagoon for the first time since Saturday! I hope this isn't just the anesthesia & bupe talking, but wow, what a ride!

Thanks Chris, Marje, Mariko, Deborah, & Wendy for stopping by and helping with ideas & support.

Chris, I'm going to try the cotton balls or gauze next, great idea, thanks.

Marje, You were soooo right to wait & see.....after the 82 we just got, I think we may be looking at a reducie rather than a dosecrease!

Mariko - I keep thinking of you - I remember Lucy's skydive to 22 last week(?) with the bupe - it made me start with the gravy at 129! Thanks for all the bupe info - I gave .2 - .1 doesn't seem to phase him, & so far, except for those pauses to stop & stare off into space, he's still pretty agitated & excited, but in a happy way.

Deborah, thanks for your support - we'll take all the vines you got!

:?: Wendy - appetite is ravenous, but I'm not stopping the drop. I've been giving 2tsp HC @ each test since BG 129 & we just touched 48 - so I gave 4 tsp HC - should I do maple syrup? I've never given that. Will also try gauze when BG is stabilized.

 

Re: 11/27Tigger PMPS/438+1.5/221+2/129 +2.5/82 +3/48 not hol

+3/48 I fed 1T+ HC & I'll add a drop of maple syrup to his gums now & wait till I hear for other direction

 

Re: 11/27Tigger PMPS/438+1.5/221+2/129 +2.5/82 +3/48 not hol

Yikes! Syrup it is! Maybe a couple drops in his HC gravy and test in 20. Don't bother with regular LC food right now, don't want him getting full.

Just in case, do you have an ER vet or other vet open late tonight. Bad night for that with the holiday tomorrow, but we need to get him stopped or you might have to get him on a glucose drip. Tigger, up up up please! This does look like a combo of anesthesia, pain relief and getting rid of some of the infection.

 

Re: 11/27Tigger PMPS/438+1.5/221+2/129 +2.5/82 +3/48 not hol

I gave him 3 drops of m. syrup on his gums - he'd already eaten the HC. I'll re-test in 10 - I'm ok if he skyrockets, this just doesn't feel safe. I do have an ER vet, but its 35 minutes away. Is there anything else I can do at home?

 

Re: 11/27Tigger PMPS/438+1.5/221+2/129 +2.5/82 +3/48 not hol

Come on Tigger...time to come up now...You're scaring your mamabean!!

I'd think with the amount of carbs and sugar he's gotten, he should start going up soon...but our kitties hardly ever listen to us

 

Re: 11/27Tigger PMPS/438+1.5/221+2/129 +2.5/82 +3/48 not hol

+0:15 = 47 - syrup & HC is slowing so far (whew) - should I wait another 15 min. & test again before feeding anymore?

 

Re: 11/27Tigger PMPS/438+1.5/221+2/129 +2.5/82 +3/48 +3.25/4

Wait 20 minutes after the last food and check him again.

Didn't mean to scare you with the ER thing - just want to know what the options are. Thankfully he's slowing down. And I agree that if you jack him to the moon, that's OK right now. Thank goodness for appy!!

 

Re: 11/27Tigger PMPS/438+1.5/221+2/129 +2.5/82 +3/48 +3.25/4

Phew...I'm glad he's slowing down.
My heart was beating fast for a sec....
UP Tigger, UP!

 

Re: 11/27Tigger PMPS/438+1.5/221+2/129 +2.5/82 +3/48 +3.25/4

Come on Tigger...enough already, you need to come up for Mama faso she can get some rest tonight !

No advise from me Suzanne, just wanted you to know I am thinking about you . With advise you are getting, looks like you are in good hands.

So happy Tiggers's procedure went well and he has a good appy ;-)

 

Re: 11/27Tigger PMPS/438+1.5/221+2/129 +2.5/82 +3/48 +3.25/4

Had to go change my pants.

Whew! +3.5/53. Should I feed or wait 20 minutes?

You didn't scare me, Wendy, Tigger did - From 82 to 48 I calc'd we were dropping a point a minute this last round - I couldn't wait 30 min. at that rate. I remember Mariko's Lucy's drop to 22 last week (?) after she got the Bupe & was feeling better & didn't want to go there with Tigger.

Funny, Tigger didn't have this reaction the last time, but he didn't get Bupe, either, except following the surgery. After the 438 PMPS & solid highs the last few days, I truly wasn't expecting a huge drop.

 

Re: 11/27Tigger PMPS/438+2/129 +2.5/82 +3/48 +3.25/47 +3.5/5

Well at least he's going in the right direction now!! I'd probably wait and see if he's going to keep going up

You didn't actually think that just because he acted one way the last time, he'd act the same way again did you? That's totally against the cat rulebook...Rule #4...never let your hoomin know what to expect! :lol:

The do like to keep us on our toes!

 

Re: 11/27Tigger PMPS/438+2/129 +2.5/82 +3/48 +3.25/47 +3.5/5

Sorry about the pants. When is the last time Tigger had any LC? If it's been a while, he could have some of that if he's due any, maybe a couple tsp. It would be great if we could get him surfing and spending some time in the greens since he's there anyway. Unless you want to sleep. You do have company, what would you like to do tonight?

I took a look at Tigger's SS, and it seems if he's going to be dramatic (big drops), he's done the worst of the damage by +4. That doesn't mean you can relax too much, but I can be hopeful. You can slow down the testing to a half hour now.

 

Re: 11/27Tigger PMPS/438+2/129 +2.5/82 +3/48 +3.25/47 +3.5/5

Thanks, Wendy, our next is due in about 10 min. (I was just kidding about the pants, but it sure felt that way!)

Yeah, he used to dive mosre around +1-2, but last week he started out pretty level & then dropped at +3, right when I was expecting some zzzzs - bad kitty!

I agree with you & will let Tigger surf - it he's still climbing in 10min, I'll give him this regular 5% - he's starving, poor guy!

I'm cooking Thanksgiving dinner tomorrow - I think I'm exhausted to the point it doesn't make any difference if I stay up. As long as I don't drive or drink any alcohol, we're safe :lol: :lol: :lol:

Thanks for the hand holding & spare pants - :lol: this one was a squeaker for me

 

Re: 11/27Tigger PMPS/438+2/129 +2.5/82 +3/48 +3.25/47 +3.5/5

Boy, are you right, Chris! Yeah, I shoulda known better - duh! This one really scared me!

Thanks Rise for stopping by - we can use the support!!! Congratulations to Monet's OTJ victory!

Mariko, thanks for your help. I hope Lucy's doing better now, too

Wendy, as always, thanks for savin' my veggie bacon!

 

Re: 11/27Tigger PMPS/438 +3/48 +3.5/53 +4/68 Reduce tomorrow

+4/68 - looks like we're nearly to the safe zone. I gave Tigger 2T 5% to fill his belly a little, he's not had much food today, poor little guy. I'll keep testing till he's at 75+ or 80+ just to be sure.

Tried the warm compress & gauze for cleaning - it's definitely not going to happen tonight, Tigger's having none of that! Otherwise, he's in good spirits, still pretty amped up.

:?: Wendy, should I take the reduction tomorrow back from f1.75 to 1.75 or is this just the anesthesia / bupe / lack of food talking? If Tigger's back in the high 300's or 400's or (gads) - I can't speak it - is also a strong possibility.

 

Not sure how to answer this one so I'm going to ramble. Hear me out. I don't believe bupe lowers BG, but it eases pain and pain can cause higher BG's. Anesthesia can definitely lower BG and you could see affects for a cycle or two (I think, can't remember, it never happened to Neko). Lack of food is also a contributor. Normally I'd say shoot through the bounce, but Tigger has shown an amazing ability to drop from the reds tonight. :shock: :shock: I also think his higher numbers the last few days were due to the infection. He's also got some new ABs on board which when they kick in will also impact BG's. So, it's complicated.

Any chance you can get a +11 or +11.5 tomorrow morning and ask for additional input? It's going to be a quiet day so not sure how much response you'll get though. Personally, I'd take the reduction unless Tigger goes where we don't want to say. But that's because there's a lot going on inside Tigger right now, I don't trust him and I know you are going to be busy tomorrow too.

BTW - I knew you were kidding about the pants - just thought it was funny. :lol: :lol: :lol: Made me laugh when I was gritting my teeth and worried about Tigger. Hope you get some good sleep tonight.

ETA: Any chance of updating his SS for tomorrow?

 

What an ending to a hard day. I'm glad to see that Tigger has come up, but keep testing. W/ Tess honey will keep her up for 2 hours, but then she can drop again. Tigger does have an earliernadir, but w/ all he has had going on lately I'd get tests in after one and two hours since last food/syrup, 2 consecutive rising numbers after the extras have worn off.

Well, geeeeee! We thoughts a little excitement would help to keep you beans awake! OK, Tigs! Guess we better head up now. Glad you like the KTSS. -- Tess