Chyna vet/bloodwork, heating pad pic:)

Hi guys Previous condo:http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=108988

Well, last week we ended up doing a vetty visit and getting bloodwork done as I was so worried about her glucose rising and her acting a bit off. The good thing is her CRF levels aren’t up; pretty much the same as 2.5 months ago…I was hoping the phosphorus/crea had gone farther down since I switched to ALOH after the last bloodwork.

The only appointment they had was a leave her there one…so poor girl had to hang out for 3 hours (during which they did a blood draw and ran it, while I was at work worrying). I went to get her when they phoned and she (as usual) was worked up into a frenzy of hissing, growling, and trying to bite people :shock: I don’t know what to do to help her for this, she gets so scared. I wish we had at home vet visits available, of course that would be $$$ I don't have, lol.

I ended up with the new vet at the office. She is really nice and discussed with me. I mentioned the locum vet recommending ESAs and had just started to say that I didn’t want to start that yet…and she said oh no studies show that you shouldn’t start that until the HCT is much lower because they can get antibodies to it (!!!!!). So needless to say, I liked her for knowing that.

She was hesitant to upset Chyna more by examining her but we tried…I picked her up and held her (growling and yowling) so she could look in her ears. She said they didn’t look too red but I could give her the synoptic ear drops in her right ear for 3 days to see if that stops the scratching. There was no way I could have them look at her teeth. So I’m thinking I will have mom come over and take pics while I hold her mouth open (if I can get it open, lol). We’ve been brushing her teeth the past few months…sort of. With my finger and a teeny bit of cat toothpaste working up to an actual brush.

Her glucose has gone down a bit (was 126 Tuesday-not to green yet but at least down from 164) and I will be testing later tonight again after work. I started watching her even more carefully and she seems to be sitting uncomfortable sometimes, walking stiff and having trouble with scratching her right ear. SO I upped her cosequin (bottle says it’s ok and I’d had her on the under 10lb dose and she is almost 13 pounds now but that will probably take awhile to kick in), started Pepcid AC twice instead of once a day as someone had recommended it on the health condo, and instead of using the (steroid) ear drops I am trying coconut oil drops in her ear for a few days along with massaging it into her top ear which I just started last night. Her ear feels warm/hot.

The past few days she seems to be feeling much happier, purring more and moving around more, which must be the Pepcid AC? She had been eating all her food so it didn’t occur to me that she could need more. Of course, the vet just said to keep an eye on the glucose as it was still in the high normal (to them). So I'm not sure what to do here? I'm hoping BG will go down more and the extras I'm doing will do the trick. But don't want to hold off insulin if it's needed.

Anyways that was a really long story! Sorry :? . I’m wondering, with her levels of crea still under 300 if subsqs every day is too much? She seems to be absorbing what she has but I don’t want to flood her and flush out the good things too. That’s one thing the vet wasn’t really clear on (I was originally told 250ml a week). I have been doing 2 days on, one off but did more that that the past week. She does get water mixed in her food too.

I’d really like it if someone good with bloodwork can check out her labs and see if there is something I am needing to work on :? It is in my signature under her SS for BG and labs Sorry for the gigantic condo! I'm trying so hard to help her. Hope everyones fur babies are eating and feeling fine today

Re: Chyna vet/bloodwork, BG & CRF/subq ?'s

hmm. I wonder about the warm ear situation.
Hope the drops from the vet make a difference.

I poked Marje for you to come see your labs when she can.

Re: Chyna vet/bloodwork, BG & CRF/subq ?'s

Thanks Rhiannon. It's weird, it's just the right ear that's warm...her BG before supper was 133. I'm not sure if I should try the coconut a few more times, or give in and do the ear drops :? I only hesitate because of the steroid in it...

Re: Chyna vet/bloodwork, BG & CRF/subq ?'s

I know we all hate steroids but if there is swelling in there.... it would help reduce the inflammation.
And swelling tissues can get warm.

Maybe Marje will have some input on that too.

Re: Chyna vet/bloodwork, BG & CRF/subq ?'s

Hi Rachel! It's too bad the vet couldn't get a better idea about the itchy warm ear, but I do think trying the drops for a few days is a good idea. If there is swelling and the drops help get it under control it would be easier to see what's causing the swelling (foreign object, yeast or bacterial infection, etc). I shudder at the word steroids too, because that is what brought Twice's diabetes to light. But sometimes it is the only way to attack other nasties.
Maybe you could call the vet again and just let her know why you are hesitant and see what she says? Maybe she would have another option for you and Chyna?
Whatever you do decide to do, it will be the right thing, because you love Chyna and you're an awesome mamabean :YMHUG:

Re: Chyna vet/bloodwork, BG & CRF/subq ?'s

You are an awesome bean, Rachel. Sending tons of vines for Chyna.
Liz

Re: Chyna vet/bloodwork, BG & CRF/subq ?'s

Hey Rachel

I'm sorry sweet Chyna had a rough time at the vet". I'm looking at her bloodwork right now and will BRB

Re: Chyna vet/bloodwork, BG & CRF/subq ?'s

I like your new vet because ESAs should not be started until the HCT is below 20% for the very reason your new vet mentioned....the potential to develop antibodies. However, you can help keep her anemia somewhat under control by giving her 250 mcg methyB12 bid and also 1/10th bid a Jarrows B Right multi B vitamin. I bought empty #3 gel caps, put 1/2 of a 500 mcg methyl12 capsule in it and then filled the remainder with the Jarrows B Right. Gus got one of these homemade capsules bid and, after almost four years CKD, when he crossed, his HCT at was still 25%.

Chinas BUN and creatinine aren't too bad and I do think fluids every day is not needed. Many people do not even start fluids until the creatinine is over 300 (international). So if you feel she needs it a couple times a week, that's fine. Once the creatinine goes over 300, I'd start giving her fluids every day.....check with your vet ..but about 100 mls to start with is probably good.

Her potassium is fine but that phosphorus needs to come down. I don't know how much AlOh you are using but you should also be trying to feed her foods that are as low as possible in phosphorus. Shoot for under 1.00% on a DMB or less than 200 mg/100 calories.

On the Pepcid, it could be the high P that is causing the need for the Pepcid. Her creat and BUN are not that high but her P is.

I hope this helps. Please let me know if you have questions. Hugs!!!!!

Re: Chyna vet/bloodwork, BG & CRF/subq ?'s

Hi again Rhiannon! And Hi to Kim I did mention it to the vet but she said to maybe try it three days (instead of up to 14) since she didn't think the ear was looking that bad but couldn't get all that close to angry scared kittys ear, she had to wear a glove to look while I held her. I worry it's allergies not ear infection but with it feeling so warm now I guess I'll start the synotic ear drops tomorrow...blech. I wish I didn't have to work so I could observe her a bit longer to see if scratching has decreased with the coconut drops. I hope it doesn't affect her BG although with it up like it is maybe it will help confused_cat She took the ear drops in Feb. but with antibiotics so I'm not sure if it affected her BG.

Hi Liz, thanks for the vines, I will make her read the condo, lol.

Hi Marje! Thanks for looking at the bloodwork. Chyna is taking her vitamins faithfully twice a day Maybe I'll go back to the 50ml one day on, one off for subqs. I went by the chart on tanyas site for ALOH and am giving 600mg (1/2 tsp loose) over 24 hours mixed in all meals (she's between 12 and 13 pounds). She's eating a 2 carb, 1.18 DM/224kcal lamb food right now and I'd like lower phos but have hesitated with her allergies to try another protein again. I looked at raw (the new pet store carries frozen) but could only feed that when home and I read on tanyas site about possibly not switching if they haven't ever had it/already are sick? When (if) I can get this infection or whatever is going on I have a few foods to try or add to the mix that are a bit higher in carbs (still low enough for diabetic) but lower phos but with her BG up I didn't want to add carbs. Ugh too many factors for my brain right now ohmygod_smile

Should I worry about the BG yet? I hope I can bring her down without insulin but worry...

Hugs to you all, thanks for listening to my rambling worries! :YMHUG:

Re: Chyna vet/bloodwork, BG & CRF/subq ?'s

Then you are doing everything you can to be proactive on her kidneys. I always fed Gus a variety of thing so I'd have some thing he'd want to eat...and I did change foods because it was more important to get him to eat.

Can you test her three hours after she eats to see if she's bringing her numbers down indicating her pancreas is working? If she can stay around 125 and she brings herself down, I'd be tempted to leave off the insulin but if she has more days between 130 and higher and food doesn't bring her numbers down, I'd give her a little insulin support.

Re: Chyna vet/bloodwork, BG & CRF/subq ?'s

Evening Rachel! Three cheers for the new & well-informed vet. I hope you can get the pic of Chyna's teeth . . . I tried valiantly to do the tooth-brushing thing but Papaya really hates the flavour of the toothpaste. It's kind of amazing how tightly she can hold her lips together :lol: You're being really attentive to Chyna so I'm sure you will figure out just what she needs. Have a great night!

Re: Chyna vet/bloodwork, BG & CRF/subq ?'s

Thanks Marje, I tried last week and the number stayed exactly the same, I will try again this weekend. Her meals are so small and fed at 3 hour intervals so I'm not sure if it does much as far as pancreas action for that...I wonder if I should try a bigger meal then test?

Hi Amy, thanks for the encouragement. So far Chyna is pretty tight lipped but she lets me rub it on her gums and outside big teeth so I'm hoping it's doing something besides irritating her at the nerve I have to touch her mouth :lol: She actually likes the toothpaste (salmon flavor) so that's a plus ;-)

We started the ear drops this morning...I guess we will see how this goes :? :smile:

Re: Chyna vet/bloodwork, BG & CRF/subq ?'s

Hi Rachel!

You mentioned Cosequin - if she's still having some arthritis pain, I'm wondering if it is strong enough to help her. Have you considered Adequan? I didn't think Punkin got any help from the Cosequin, but the Adequan did seem to help him. I gave it as an injection, starting once a week and gradually moving to once a month. It does take a little while to work. You can also add it to the tubing port-thing when you're giving subq's, so it wouldn't even mean an extra shot for her. The next step up from Adequan is Dausequin, so there are options.

She's sure on the border with her BG's, isn't she? Dancing around a bit just to make sure we know who's in charge of her dance!! My thought is that if you address the possible pain issue and are treating her ears, and you don't see the BGs drifting downward a bit, I think I'd be inclined to give her a little help with a tiny bit of insulin. Not yet - it's really only been since the 26th that she's been upwards of 120 on all of the tests, but consider it before too long if you don't see improvement.

Re: Chyna vet/bloodwork, BG & CRF/subq ?'s

In Canada, instead of Adequan it's usually Cartrophen the vets use. I found the cartrophen worked better than the glucosamine powder with a arthritic civie I had. With him I went to vet once a month, but since Neko got FD, they were OK with me giving the shots at home. The cartrophen is usually given a loading dose, once a week for the first month, then tapered back. I think we then did every two weeks then once a month, but some people have to do more frequently depending on what it takes to handle the pain.

-37? :shock: :shock: It's -5C here and that's cold enough.

Re: Chyna vet/bloodwork, BG & CRF/subq ?'s

Hi Julie! Yes, she's been on cosequin for years and it had worked well. Watching her lower herself to sit carefully the past week has made me wonder if she's in pain and needs more, so I increased it. It's funny you mention Adequan, since Rhiannon did too and I've been looking up articles on it. I'd definitely like to try something more and will try calling the vet today to see if there is some injection that we can try. I'm hoping to continue the cosequin though too...and that it improves her BG without having to start insulin but I'll be testing frequently. She really does like to freak her bean out :shock: :lol: Poor thing peed the carrier at the vet...which excited them so they could test it :? :lol: They said there was no glucose in her urine at least.

Hi Wendy! I did mention that temp on Twices condo. Yes, -37C last night with a wind chill of -44. Today is "warmer" at -33 this morning, high of -16 though so it'll be balmy and warm ;-) I will ask about the Cartrophen and Adequan when I call. I hope it's not too pricey...I want to help her so bad, but I'm pretty low on funds :sad:

I looked up both Cartrophen and Adequan and they mostly talk about for dogs and intramuscular injections...are both ok in subqs? I've never done a port injection and I hope they have dosing for cats somewhere, lol. All I have is her diabetes syringes I wonder if they would work...I guess the vet will know, I just like to ask people who've used it ;-)

Thanks so much for your advice

Update...I called and ugh the vet is closed until Monday even though they are usually open Saturday they are closed this particular one, just my luck :roll: I guess I will have that chance to read up on arthritis injections and will call Monday!

Re: Chyna vet/bloodwork, BG & CRF/subq ?'s

i used the same insulin syringes with the adequan and bought the subq tubing that had a port in it. i added both Vit B12 and adequan to the port (on each's own schedule) when i was giving subq's anyway. who wants another poke if they don't have to have it. the vet told me to do that, so i don't think they need to be intramuscular. i don't know anything about the cartrophen that wendy mentioned, but i'm sure she can tell you how she gave it, or the vet could tell you if it can be added to the fluids.

Re: Chyna vet/bloodwork, BG & CRF/subq ?'s

The vet gave me preloaded syringes for the cartrophen, because I was only giving 4 doses to the civie. But they were bigger harpoons than I was used to. For one I had a hard time getting the cover off without taking off the needle, so I just put it all into an insulin needle and did it that way. Vet was OK with that. Cartrophen is very similar to Adequan. It is pricy by the syringe and if I knew then what I know now, I would have bought a vial for the arthritic cat and administered it myself.

Re: Chyna vet/bloodwork, BG & CRF/subq ?'s

It is cheaper to buy the vial then the pre-loaded syringes.

I also use the insulin syringes... the ones the vet gave me were indeed harpoons. Dyana told me she used the insulin syringes. And I shoot it the same way as the insulin.... under the skin.

Re: Chyna vet/bloodwork, BG & CRF/subq ?'s

Thanks again, I wish the vet was open today so I could get something for her. BG wasn't higher or lower when I tested this morning but her ears seem to be a lot less itchy today and yesterday, so I'm not sure if it was the coconut or the ear drops but I'll do the ear drops for the whole 3 days.

Since it's gotten colder out (and my windows leak cold air unfortunately old house) Chyna has been sleeping in the bathroom on the mat quite often. I laid on the floor the other day to pet her and realized why when I picked her up and she was warm so I felt the floor and it was warm too...the floor retains and seems to reflect heat. We redid the flooring a few years ago and it's the vinyl that is supposed to be good for not being cold on feet. SO I went and bought a heated pet mat from Petsmart. Maybe it will help her old bones. Figured I'd share the pic of when she tried it today, it's a little fuzzy since it's a camera phone. She hasn't left it all afternoon since I placed her on it Ok, well she did go eat and come back ;-)

I also bought some treats online, they only have the whitefish for cats at local stores and no big ones. I was so tierd of getting those little bags and it was free shipping at $27 for a 200g bag instead of $3 each for an 11g bag at a time should save some money. It came in the mail the other day and looked so funny compared to the old bag I had to add that picture too, lol. :lol:

Chyna is a smart kitty ~ finding the warmest spot in the house.
And what a smart mama ~ making that spot even warmer.

I love the pic of your sweet girl.
(And Ripley loves the pic of the treats ~ she had no idea there was a fishie flavor! She loves the shrimp purebites.)

Awwww! Chyna looks so happy and cute on her new heating pad! Love that pic Good to hear your weather is warming up a bit! Not sure if you got all that crazy snow as well, but was talking to Mom last night (Lethbridge) and she said between the snow and the temps they were advising people not to go anywhere (not sure if that wasn't a couple days ago tho). Stay warm neighbor, maybe Chyna will scoot over a bit and make some room for you :lol:

Hi Rachel,
Chyna looks so cute and cozy on her heating pad.
Makes me want to get one for mine....

She looks so cozy and comfy. cat_pet_icon

Can't beat that, unless of course she's keeping your feet warm at the same time. ;-)

Thanks everyone for the visits, she's still there on the pad so it was worth every cent I guess she will be mad when I shut it off for the night, or when I'm not home I don't feel comfortable with it on all hours.

Kim, we didn't get too much snow this week just cold temps and wind, but last week we got over a foot one night and so on for a few days...roads are still crap and I'm sick of shovelling already :shock: . Blech.

Josie, Chyna said to tell you that whitefish is her favorite! Even more than the shrimpies. I think Ripleys bean may be going shopping soon ;-)

LOVE the pic of her with her face snuggled in. my civvie, anya, has a cold nose and is always trying to bury it against me to warm it up. that heating pad is going to be well-worth your $$!