2/19 Scooter AMPS 55,+16-93,+17-114,+18-128,+20-134+21-170

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Linda and Scooter & Jack

Member Since 2012
recap

2/18
amps 184 5.5U levemir
+4-331
+6-356
+8-344
pmps 340 5.5U
+4-248
+11-66
update
+12-45
+12.15-53
+12.30-49 2 tsp LC pate 4% carbs
+12.45-55
+13-54 2 tsp HC 19% carbs
+13.30- AMPS 55- 5U .5 decrease :mrgreen:
+.30- 88
+1-77
+1.30-68
+2-55
+2.30-43 2 tsp HC 19% carbs
+3-46
+3.15-83
+3.30-68
+3.45-63 3 tsp LC pate 4% carbs
+4-41 2 tsp Karo and HC 19% carbs
+4.30-60
+5-100
+5:30 - 67
+6- 45 3 tsp HC 19% carb
+6:30 2 tsp HC 24% carb and Karo 1 tblsp
+7 -67
+7:30 - 120
+8-160
+8:30 - 170
+9 - 219
+10-233
+11-216 2 tblsp LC 4% carb
+11:45-128
+12 - 91
+13 - 46 3 tblsp HC 24% carb and 2 drops of Karo
+13:30 - 84
+15 - 77
+16-93
+17-114 :o
+18-128
+20-134 1/4 can 9 lives LC 5 % carb
+21-170



So Scooters shot is in a few minutes. He is in the lagoon now. What number should he be at before I shoot? I will test again in 15 minutes. Second day without kibble in the house.

Linda
 
Re: 2/19 Scooter to low to shoot?

Hi guys .. no advice from me, but wow, great numbers scooter! I'm sure someone will be along soon to help you out .. have a great day!
 
Re: 2/19 Scooter to low to shoot?

Have you gotten another test yet...? Since the +11 is 66, the next hour would be your preshot time (the 12th hour), which you would get another test before the shot. Hopefully by then his # would have risen above the 66, which means the shed would have drained a bit.
 
Re: 2/19 Scooter to low to shoot?

Ok, I'll be here for a short bit this morning, but I need to do a couple of errands. IF Scooter drops below 66, you'll want to stall a bit to make sure that he starts to rise on his own.

A few days ago, I had a 66 staring back at me, too, and I decided to stall since I've never shot that low before. Sure, I've shot 70's and 80's, but never 60's. 10 minutes later, she rose to 116. :lol: I felt better shooting THAT #.
 
Re: 2/19 Scooter to low to shoot?

Could you try retesting in 15 minutes without food first? Anything you feed him now will influence his PS numbers.

And could you update your subject line with the current numbers: 2/19 Scooter +11 66 AMBG 45 - too low?
 
Re: 2/19 Scooter to low to shoot?

Well, it looks like you've earned a dose reduction!!! Congratulations! Here's a bit of informatoin with regards to shooting low #s, which I wouldn't advise you to do at this time:

The short answer is that most kitties can be shot at +12, almost regardless of the number, once you are data ready to do so. The exception is that shooting 30s or 40s is not recommended for most cats, so if the cat is less than 50 then usually the best option is to wait until they are above 50 to shoot. While you’re waiting, the shed is draining, so you want to get the insulin in as soon as it makes sense to shoot.

If it is your first time shooting green, then we will likely suggest that you stall the first time, even if the number is 80-100. That will let you collect data on what your cat will do when you stall. One thing you can do if you are having a low cycle is to get a +10 and +11. Those will give you a good idea of how quickly the cat’s numbers are rising (or not) when preshot time arrives.

Beyond the general guidelines, there are other factors we consider when we are helping someone with a low preshot.
If the low preshot is not part of that cat’s normal pattern or there is reason to think something might be wrong, we will be more conservative.
If the cat is not a food spiker or tends to have an early onset/early nadir then they may not want to shoot as low. If the cat has a late nadir, then they will HAVE to learn to shoot low.
We will also be more conservative in some cases because of the person – if you are not able to monitor then you want to be more careful, or if you are not sure that you can get back to the board to keep us updated throughout the cycle. Trust me, if you shoot low, we will be watching for your updates and we will worry if we don’t see them.
We have to be a lot more careful with the cats who eat only dry food, because they don’t have access to the tools the rest of us use to keep our cats safe.
Also, when it comes to very low preshots, there is an unwritten rule that whoever helps that person shoot low should expect to sit with them through any low parts of the cycle. There have been times when I knew a cat’s number was likely shootable, but I also knew that I could not be around to help if the shot resulted in low numbers later in the cycle. For safety’s sake, if I could not find someone else who would be available to support for the next several hours, I would most likely suggest that the shot be reduced or skipped. I will not encourage someone to shoot low and then abandon them.
There are a lot of other scenarios, and you always want to keep your cat in mind.

Some general rules when stalling (ECID):

** 50s or higher – don’t feed. The number will bump up on its own soon due to the insulin wearing off.
** 40s or lower – you have a couple of choices.

When 40’s occur at the end of the cycle, it can be beneficial to withhold food and test in 15-20 minutes to determine if kitty is on the rise or hasn’t reached nadir yet.
If they are hanging in the 40s for a while, or if they are still dropping, it is ok to feed a tsp or two of LC and retest. This is very tricky. You want to avoid feeding too much while you’re waiting for them to go over 50, because you don’t want to artificially inflate the number with food.
--- Example: if kitty is 43 and you feed a whole meal, or feed some HC, and the number bumps up to 52, is that the cat’s natural end-of-cycle rise, or is it food spike? What if it is food spike? Then if you shoot the 52, when the food wears off he might drop back to the 40’s (and when insulin kicks in a couple of hours later, you might have a problem). If the 52 is the cat’s natural rise, then he will probably keep rising for the next few hours until insulin kicks in. If you can’t tell whether the number is food spike or natural rise, it’s safest to wait. Your data will help you here. Study the spreadsheet. How much food spike does the cat usually get? How many hours after the shot does the insulin’s onset usually occur in this cat? At what number is the cat likely to be when onset occurs? If the cat does drop, how easy/hard is it to regain control of the numbers? How carb sensitive is he?

** Test often (every 15-20 minutes, or at most every 30 minutes). You want to catch the rise the minute it starts. With most of our cats, once they start to rise they will really zoom. You want to get the insulin in as soon as possible, because it will be another 2-3 hours before the insulin kicks in and you don’t want to let the cycle get too far ahead of you.

Perhaps the most important guideline in shooting low is that any time you shoot your lowest ever number, you should get a +1 and +2 to give you an idea of how the cycle will go. If the +1 is not higher than PS, or if +2 is much lower than PS, that means “pay attention” over the next few hours. Those tests will also help you become even more data ready for the next time you are presented with a low preshot reading.

Using the overlap by shooting low is a great way to take advantage of Lantus/Levemir’s long, flat cycles, once you have learned to do so safely.

I can only be here for another few moments. I need to get ready to get going. :( I know I'm not much help right now. :( Sorry. I'd get another test in about 15 minutes to see if he's coming up on his own. Hopefully he will be. As stated above, IF he's still in the 40's or falling, go ahead and give him a small amount of gravy. If that doesn't work, then try the Karo, which you will need to rub on his gums (again a small amount).
 
Re: 2/19 Scooter to low to shoot?

From the Shooting Low Numbers sticky, so you have it handy:
Some general rules when stalling (ECID):

** 50s or higher – don’t feed. The number will bump up on its own soon due to the insulin wearing off.
** 40s or lower – you have a couple of choices.

When 40’s occur at the end of the cycle, it can be beneficial to withhold food and test in 15-20 minutes to determine if kitty is on the rise or hasn’t reached nadir yet.
If they are hanging in the 40s for a while, or if they are still dropping, it is ok to feed a tsp or two of LC and retest. This is very tricky. You want to avoid feeding too much while you’re waiting for them to go over 50, because you don’t want to artificially inflate the number with food.
--- Example: if kitty is 43 and you feed a whole meal, or feed some HC, and the number bumps up to 52, is that the cat’s natural end-of-cycle rise, or is it food spike? What if it is food spike? Then if you shoot the 52, when the food wears off he might drop back to the 40’s (and when insulin kicks in a couple of hours later, you might have a problem). If the 52 is the cat’s natural rise, then he will probably keep rising for the next few hours until insulin kicks in. If you can’t tell whether the number is food spike or natural rise, it’s safest to wait. Your data will help you here. Study the spreadsheet. How much food spike does the cat usually get? How many hours after the shot does the insulin’s onset usually occur in this cat? At what number is the cat likely to be when onset occurs? If the cat does drop, how easy/hard is it to regain control of the numbers? How carb sensitive is he?


** Test often (every 15-20 minutes, or at most every 30 minutes). You want to catch the rise the minute it starts. With most of our cats, once they start to rise they will really zoom. You want to get the insulin in as soon as possible, because it will be another 2-3 hours before the insulin kicks in and you don’t want to let the cycle get too far ahead of you.

This is one of the joys of Levemir, often the nadir can be at PS time. Neko gave me a 50 a couple days ago, I waited 15 minutes and she was on the rise.
 
Re: 2/19 Scooter AMPS 45,

Good Morning Wendy!

Ok the subject line has the latest numbers and I will keep it up to date. Man I did not think this would happen. I bet he was getting into the kibble! cat(2)_steam

I have not fed him or the others yet. They are pretty mad though! :lol:

Linda
 
Re: 2/19 Scooter AMPS 45,

Could you change the subject line to AMBG (AM blood glucose)? AMPS means you shot.

I hate stalling too. Looks like you have your answer as to whether Scooter was getting into dry food. :roll:
 
Re: 2/19 Scooter AMBG 45, +.15-53

Yes and I had no idea he was getting into kibble.

So he has come up on his own. According to the protocol that is great. If I understand it right I shouldn't shoot till 80's? Is that right?
My heart is kind of pounding and I am scared so just second guessing my thought process.

linda
 
Re: 2/19 Scooter AMBG 45, +.15-53

Whew! Thank you Scooter! When you do shoot, I'd take his dose back down to 5U. Congrats on the reduction.

If you can stall him some more, I'd do another 15 minutes. When Neko gave me the 50 earlier this week, I just stalled and shot at 57 as I knew she was on her way up. But that's me and I've gathered lots of data on Neko. You have to decide your comfort level and what you are willing to shoot. The joy of Lev is that you'll have several hours before onset when you can feed him and he'll keep rising.

A couple of questions: are you going to be home to monitor today? Do you have plenty of strips (over 20)? It sounds like you do have HC wet and karo. Not saying you'll need these, but we just want to be ready in case.

Don't forget to breathe!
 
Re: 2/19 Scooter AMBG 45, +.15-53, +.30-49

Whew lower again. :roll:

Yes I have 3 bottles of strips and food and karo and I called in so I am good to go.

I was not expecting him to come down again to 49 though. I think I should wait again for 15 minutes?

Any thoughts?
 
Re: 2/19 Scooter AMBG 45, +.15-53, +.30-49

Part of the problem of withholding food is that it naturally lowers BGs. I think it's time to move to the part of the sticky that says feed a tsp or two of LC and retest again. You don't want to feed too much to influence the numbers.

How much off schedule can you afford to be? Your new shot time will be 12 hours after whenever you shoot. (making up 15 minutes a shot or 30 minutes once a day).
 
Re: 2/19 Scooter AMBG 45, +.15-53, +.30-49,+.45-55

Ok well I can work around pretty much anything as I am the owner of the business. So shot time can change.

I just fed the others because of the revolt so I will give him 2 tsp of food since he went back up a bit.

Do you think I should shoot a dose reduction on the hour? from 5.5 to 5U?

Linda
 
Re: 2/19 Scooter AMBG 45, +.15-53, +.30-49,+.45-55

Looks like he is surfing there. When Neko did her low thing a couple days ago, she surfed the 50's for several hours. :roll:

If he's still in the 50's and you feel comfortable shooting that, go ahead and shoot the new lower dose as he did earn a reduction. Get some early tests in. Test again 30 minutes after the shot. I'd also get a +1 and a +2 which is what we recommend every time you shoot the lowest PS you are used to.

If you aren't comfortable with shooting in the 50's, give him a couple tsp food and test again in 30, but this will move the schedule back more. The other options are shooting a reduced dose or a skip.

Some general observations: you have very few +1 tests on your SS. It's good to get a few of these to see how much of a food spike Scooter gets. There's a chance he'll do this to you again and you want to know what to expect once he's eaten. Since Scooter has already earned a reduction, feel free to give him a little higher carb food to boost him up a bit more for this cycle if you want.
 
Re: 2/19 Scooter AMBG 45, +.15-53, +.30-49,+.45-55,+1-54

Ok Wendy I feel like that is a great plan!

I fed him 2 tsp of pate but I am sure he will eat some gravy. :lol:

I will shoot him a reduced dose at 11:30 and then test every 30 minutes for 2 hours and if all is okay then every hour. I guess a good curve day is ahead for me.

Thank you SO MUCH for being here. I never dreamed this would happen so fast taking him off kibble. ~O)

Linda
 
Re: 2/19 Scooter AMBG 45, +.15-53, +.30-49,+.45-55,+1-54

Good luck and great shooting! If he really was getting into kibble, be prepared to see numbers coming down a bit the next few days.

Why does this always happen in the morning when you are half awake? :lol: ~O) ~O)
 
Re: 2/19 Scooter AMBG 45, +.15-53, +.30-49,+.45-55,+1-54

Good Morning ~O) :cool:

Well well, look at Scooter! '

Linda and Scooter said:
Man I did not think this would happen. I bet he was getting into the kibble! cat(2)_steam
Something tells me he had help from a kitty 'on the inside'. . . :lol:

Did you shoot yet?
 
2/19 Scooter AMPS-55

Hi Folks:

Yes I shot at 11:30 a decrease of .5 to 5U.

Gawd dang what a morning! I thought I would see a decrease of like 100 points but not 300.

So he ate twice the last one was HC food and he ate a lot of that. :lol: I reckon this is like me quitting smoking 2 years ago. :lol:

Believe it or not it is now time for my wake up ~O) that I forgot to have when I woke up. Think I may need a pot today!

I cannot believe how amazing this board is! Thank you Angela and Wendy for seeing me thru this! :YMHUG: cat_pet_icon

Linda
 
Re: 2/19 Scooter AMBG 45, +.15-53, +.30-49,+.45-55,+1-54

So I updated his SS as best I could. Should I change the title bar for today or leave it alone?

So far

AMPS 55-5U- 2 tsp HC food
+.30-88

Linda
 
Re: 2/19 Scooter AMBG 45, +.15-53, +.30-49,+.45-55,+1-54

Linda and Scooter said:
Believe it or not it is now time for my wake up ~O) that I forgot to have when I woke up.

Nothing like waking up to a +10 of 66 to get the adrenaline going :o ;-)

Your header is fine although I'd add the plus hours since the previous shot for example -

AMPS (+13) 55
(not sure how much you stalled)
 
Re: 2/19 Scooter AMBG 45, +.15-53, +.30-49,+.45-55,+1-54

Hi Linda - could you go back to your first post of the day and change it as Sandy suggests. And I think his post deserves a :mrgreen: today!

You can probably feed him LC from now on, unless he decides he wants to go diving again.

As for the SS, you could put all of his earlier numbers in last night's +11, as much as you can fit in. As an example of stacking, look at how Liz/Anne marked Zener's SS on January 7th at +11PM. For his PS, you could put 55@+13.5 - if that's when it occurred. That gives an idea of how much you stalled.
 
Re: 2/19 Scooter AMBG 45, +.15-53, +.30-49,+.45-55,+1-54

Oh Dang there is no more room in the header. :lol:

If I should change it to reflect AMPS instead of AMBG let me know. Going to have lunch since breakfast got skipped.

Scooter is in a sunbeam happy and cuddling with Junior. :-D With a full belly!

Linda
 
Re: 2/19 Scooter AMBG 45, +.15-53, +.30-49,+.45-55,+1-54

You can always change the header (first post please) to just include the highlights. So you could change it to be something like: 2/19 Scooter +12 45 AMPS (+13.5) 55
 
Re: 2/19 Scooter AMBG 45, +13-54, AMPS 55, +1-77,+2-55

Ok, I'm back for a short bit, and wanted to see how things are going with you and Scooter. Can you get another test in about 20-30 minutes to see if he's going to drop further? If he drops further than the 55 +2, try feeding him a small amount of gravy from some MC or HC canned food, and then retest again 20-30 minutes after you've fed him.
 
Re: 2/19 Scooter AMBG 45, +13-54, AMPS 55, +1-77,+2-55

Just wanted to stick my two cents worth of support in here. Hang in there, Linda!!! :YMHUG:

Scooter, come up a bit for mama. You made your point, sweetie. :mrgreen:
 
Re: 2/19 Scooter AMBG 45, +13-54, AMPS 55, +1-77,+2-55

If you want to put the # in the spread sheet, and it's a 1/2 hour # (i.e. you tested at +1, and then you tested again at +1.5), simply type in the # in the +1 cell as (i.e. 80 +1), and then in the same cell type in (i.e. 75 +1.5), but be sure to leave a space between the +1 and the next #. If you want to shrink the font size, go to the font button, click on the down arrow, and then select a size smaller than the defaulted 10. Also, to change the color of the cell, click on the paint can, and then select the appropriate color (i.e. green since both #s are under 100 in my examples). This way, you'll be able to keep track of all the #s that you've received after you tested him.

Hope that helps and makes sense. :-D
 
Re: 2/19 Scooter AMBG 45, +13-54, AMPS 55, +1-77,+2-55,+3-46

Okay he was very aggressive while eating HC food.

He had 2 tsp HC food and just finished. He is up a couple numbers to 46.

Test again in 15 minutes.

Thanks Angela for the info for the SS. I will change it as soon as I can. :-D

Not the kind of day I had planned Scooter! ohmygod_smile

Linda
 
Re: 2/19 Scooter AMBG 45, +13-54, AMPS 55, +1-77,+2-55,+3-46

There's always going to be some measure of excitement here and there when dealing with a diabetic kitty. :lol:

I'm guessing the reason behind his aggression is because he was hungry. Retesting in 15 minutes is an excellent idea. If he doesn't rise again, give 1 tsp. of the gravy, and retest in 15-20 minutes. You don't want to overload him with a bunch of food where he won't eat at preshot time, so giving him snacks will help. Hopefully.

I'll be back shortly.
 
Re: 2/19 Scooter AMBG 45, +13-54, AMPS 55, +1-77,+2-55,+3-46

Ok, test again in 15 minutes, and if he hasn't come back down (anti-jinx), do another test in 30 minutes after that to be sure.

You're welcome. :-D
 
Re: 2/19 Scooter AMBG 45, +13-54, AMPS 55, +1-77,+2-55,+3-46

Dang he is going down.

+3:30 -68

Should I use Karo? or just leave him alone for 1/2 hour? Feels like a guessing game. Last week I would have killed for these numbers. :roll:
 
Re: 2/19 Scooter AMBG 45, +13-54, AMPS 55, +1-77,+2-55,+3-46

Retest in 15 minutes (again). I'm hoping that he doesn't come down (again). If he has, we'll try one more round of the HC gravy, perhaps 1 1/2 tsps. this time, and if that doesn't work, then we'll try the Karo.

What time do you normally give the next dose at?

Now, Scooter. Stop, ok? You're giving your Mama Bean a heart attack. Sheesh. Time to NOT prove your point, ok? :lol:
 
Re: 2/19 Scooter AMBG 45, +13-54, AMPS 55, +1-77,+2-55,+3-46

hi there :cool:


So +3.5=68 ?? when/what/how much did he last eat?

It's still early in the cycle so easy does it - you want him to be hungry.
 
Re: 2/19 Scooter AMBG 45, +13-54, AMPS 55, +1-77,+2-55,+3-46

Could you provide a summary of his numbers and what he has eaten? The numbers will go down as the HC you gave him wore off. Gravy lasts a couple of hours so the HC he got for breffs would have worn off. I'm thinking of a summary like:

AMPS 55 - 2 tsp HC
+2 55
+3 46 2 tsp HC

Include any feedings of LC, which I presume he's had too.
 
Re: 2/19 Scooter AMBG 45, +13-54, AMPS 55, +1-77,+2-55,+3-46

The first post didn't include regular breakfast and amounts other than the 2 tsp HC at +2.5. It would be great to give him some LC, maybe some higher carb LC if you have it.

Also, could you keep your first post subject line updated so we know he's no longer hanging in the 40's. Thanks!
 
Re: 2/19 Scooter AMBG 45, +13-54, AMPS 55, +1-77,+2-55,+3-46

SCOOTER! WHAT are you DOING? You look like a weeble... :-D

Linda - BREATHE! and a BIG HUG too,
 
Re: 2/19 Scooter AMBG 45, +13-54, AMPS 55, +1-77,+2-55,+3-46

Ooops - LC = low carb, his regular food. OK, I see you gave him some pate (%carbs ?) at +12.30 but none since then. When you are giving gravy, are you giving the chunks or are you just giving the gravy part?

As Sandy says, it's a balancing act. You don't want to fill him up, so just small amounts, but you do want some regular food in him too. Is 2tsp his regular amount of breakfast?
 
Re: 2/19 Scooter AMBG 45, +13-54, AMPS 55, +1-77,+2-55,+3-46

No 2 tsp is not his regular amount he was free feeding before.

We were watching his numbers and didn't want to influence the bg which is why he got so little.

He got lots of gravy and chicken with a little cheese in it to. He was kind of aggressive with the chunks of chicken in it.

I will give him some LC now since I know what the heck the opposite of HC is now! :lol: OMGosh I am so stressed can you tell! :lol:

Thanks for the reminders to breathe ladies. Honestly I am scared he may go to low here.

Linda
 
Re: 2/19 Scooter AMBG 45, +13-54, AMPS 55, +1-77,+2-55,+3-46

You could feed him a bit, then probably test in 1/2 hour. I like to test every 1/2 if in the 50s or 60s. Save the more frequent testing for below that. OK Scooter, time to get up on the surfboard now!

For the first subject line - getting crowded I know, you can erase everything up to the AMPS now.
 
Re: 2/19 Scooter AMBG 45, +13-54, AMPS 55, +1-77,+2-55,+3-46

Wendy will be here to help you for a bit, Linda. I need to get off, and get my horse fed, and a few things done around here. You're doing great, girl. Just remember to breathe, and breathe, oh, and don't forget to breathe, ok? :-D
 
Re: 2/19 Scooter AMPS 55, +1-77,+2-55,+3-46,+3.

Okay Angela! Thank you thank you thank you!!!!!!

Wendy welcome back and thank you for being here! I changed the title bar and Scooter is eating right now. I gave him 3 tsp of LC pate 4% carb. I have never seen him eat this much in a day never mind hours. :-D

Okay he just finished I will test on the hour to keep the numbers straight.

Linda
 
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