6/14 - Oliver -PMBG=111 +1=140. Shot .25U +1=111,+2=126

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Re: 6/14 - Oliver - AMPS=129. A little afraid to inject.

The 129 looks very close to the 136 you shot yesterday morning. Are you going to be home today and have testing supplies?
 
Re: 6/14 - Oliver - AMPS=129. A little afraid to inject.

There are a couple of basic things to consider when you are contemplating shooting lower numbers: will you be around to monitor, do you have a supply of strips and HC food if needed, and are you data ready?

Looking at Oliver's SS, you shot a 136 yesterday at AMPS. There really isn't a difference between 129 and 136 since there's about 20% of any number that's due to meter variance.

If it were me, I'd shoot. Remember to test at +2 or sooner. (Any time you're shooting lower than you have in the past, you want to get early tests.)
 
Re: 6/14 - Oliver - AMPS=122. A little afraid to inject.

I edited my original message because I retested and got 122. I did shoot. I can be home today and I have plenty of testing supplies.
 
Re: 6/14 - Oliver - AMPS=122. A little afraid to inject.

For the future; please don't edit the message field of your first post, as the responses after can get confusing if the answers don't match the question anymore. We like to see things in a cronological sp? order :)

I'm glad you shot. I would test again at +1.
 
Re: 6/14 - Oliver - AMPS=122, +1=75 OMG!

That's exactly why you want to test early. You have two options:
  • Feed some LC and retest in 30 min;
  • Feed a teaspoon or 2 of HC and retest in 30 min.
 
Re: 6/14 - Oliver - AMPS=122, +1=75 OMG!

You don't want to overfeed Oliver. Basically, it's the gravy in HC food that contains the carbs. If he's licking up the gravy, that's fine. Regardless of whether he eats, you want to test at +1.5.
 
Re: 6/14 - Oliver - AMPS=122, +1=75, 1.5=48

You can add 2 drops of karo to some gravy, and then test again in 20 to 30 minutes.
 
Re: 6/14 - Oliver - AMPS=122, +1=75 OMG!

He wouldn't eat it so I syringed some into his mouth. Probably more than 2 drops/
 
Re: 6/14 - Oliver - AMPS=122, +1=75, 1.5=48, +2=51

This is hard on the nerves.

Will this always be a problem or does the BG eventually stabilize on a correct dose? I guess what I am asking is - am I going to have a nervous breakdown once or twice a week for the rest of Oliver's life?

Also, how long does the karo syrup last? My understanding is that this is just a quick jolt that dissipates quickly.
 
Re: 6/14 - Oliver - AMPS=122, +1=75, 1.5=48, +2=51

Yes, HC and Karo's affect on the blood sugar can wear off quickly especially so early in the cycle, that's why you need to keep testing. With the 48, Oliver earned a dose reduction. Congratulations.
You will get used to the normal non-diabetic numbers and crave them eventually. I tested my civie Ginger a couple days ago and she was 56. These are nice healing numbers. The object is to get him used to these numbers, by keeping him there as long as possible, until maybe one day he won't need insulin anymore. He'll always be a diabetic, but there is the possibility that his blood sugars can be controlled with diet. So, I would hope for that, and keep up the good work ;-) .

Test again 30 minutes after the last test.
 
Re: 6/14 - Oliver - AMPS=122, +1=75, 1.5=48, +2=51, 2.5=67

I don't know how I am going to reduce his dose. The syringes I have only have 1U marks. I have ordered new syringes with .5 marks, but they won't get here for a couple of days.

He will probably need the .5U dose tonight anyway because of the prednisolone.

He ate some more HC food about 10 minutes before his last reading. I probably shouldn't have given it to him, but I am a mess when his numbers drop that quickly so early in his cycle.

Thank you for holding my hand.
 
Re: 6/14 - Oliver - AMPS=122, +1=75, 1.5=48, +2=51, 2.5=67

It's okay. That last bit of HC (hopefully it was just a little bit), will help to hold him up a little longer.
If his next test in the 60s or higher, I would try a teaspoon of LC ;-)
 
Re: 6/14 - Oliver - AMPS=122, +1=75, 1.5=48, +2=51, 2.5=67

FluffBunny said:
I don't know how I am going to reduce his dose. The syringes I have only have 1U marks. I have ordered new syringes with .5 marks, but they won't get here for a couple of days.
Click to expand...
Do you have calipers or could you run out to get some? I use these Pittsburg 4" digital calipers
Otherwise, I guess you could practice with water and filling your syringe with exactly 1 unit and then trying to push out consitant sized drops. Once you have the drop sizes consistant, you could count how many are in 1 unit.
Then you could divide that by 4 to get 1/4 unit. For example if you can get 8 drops out of 1 unit, then 2 drops would be 1/4 unit. Then I would practice trying to fill the syringe with colored water to what you think is 2 drops, and pushing out the drops to see if it is. Once you have the 2 drops worked out, you could use that syringe as an example syringe to hold up to your dose of insulin to compare with.
 
Re: 6/14 - Oliver - AMPS=122, +1=75, 1.5=48, +, +3=87

I would test again in an hour.
 
Re: 6/14 - Oliver -AMPS=122, +1=75,+2=51,+3=87,+4=95,+5=118

With a +5 pf 118, I am assuming it is okay for me to go out for a little while. Will be back in less than 2 hours.
 
Re: 6/14 - Oliver -AMPS=122, +1=75,+2=51,+3=87,+4=95,+5=118

Hi Linda!

I had to laugh at your question about having a nervous breakdown a couple of times a week! :lol: the answer is no, it gets infinitely easier.

When we see a newly diagnosed cat who is seeing a lot of normal BG numbers and is succeeding at going down in dose, that's a really optimistic sign. Oliver has succeessfully reduced from 2.0 units to 0.5u and is still seeing green and now going to 0.25u. He has only been diagnosed for just over a month. That is fantastic progress. The goal is to get all of his BGs under 120.

The stats are high (90%+) for a cat whose BGs get back into normal range (under 120) asap upon diagnosis, and become tightly regulated to go OTJ. They remain diabetic but some can stay diet-controlled for a long time. Everything about Oliver looks like that. So be encouraged and try to hang in there as his body heals!

Belated happy birthday wishes to you! Have a fun lunch out!

btw, just eyeball the 0.25u dose as best as you can so that you are consistent from one shot to the next. some people keep a used syringe with colored water in it to show the dose and compare it to from one shot to the next. that definitely helps with consistency. The "New to the Group?" sticky has pictures of small doses.

the very smallest dose is to push the plunger in hard, insert the needle into the insulin, then release the plunger. It will vacuum in a small drop of insulin. You might be able to start with that process, then draw the plunger in a shade to get something close to 0.25u. Just do your best.
 
Re: 6/14 - Oliver -AMPS=122, +1=75,+2=51,+3=87,+5=118,+7=131

I'm pretty sure Oliver's diabetes is prednisolone induced. It would be great if I could get him off the pred. Then maybe I could get him off the insulin as well. I think I should shoot .5U tonight. If his pattern holds true, I will give him his pred. at 4 PM and his BG will spike over night. Last night it went up to 292 at +5.

Anyone have any words of wisdom for me on this? I don't want to overdose him, but I do want to control his BG spike from the pred.
 
Re: 6/14 - Oliver -AMPS=122,+1=75,+2=51,+3=87,+5=118. +7=131

he has held his reductions in the past, so in general, we would encourage you to take the reduction.

however, if you think there are extenuating circumstances with the steroids, then you can choose to do something different. you know how to monitor him, so if you decide to keep the dose at 0.5u, just keep an eye on him. since you have 4ish hrs between giving the pred and the next shot, that will let you see what's happening with his BGs at that time. i hate to say decide by the preshot, but i guess i would take the pmps into consideration when deciding whether or not to reduce.

Also, because he just barely got under 50, that isn't as clear-cut on taking the reduction as if he were in the 30's.
 
Re: 6/14 - Oliver -AMPS=122,+1=75,+2=51,+3=87,+5=118,+7=131

+10 reading was 121. However, I just found his prednisolone on the floor. I gave it to him, but he is getting it two hours late. This means that his PMPS will be low. If it is, I guess I will try .25U tonight. (Or as close as I can get to .25.)
 
Re: 6/14 - Oliver -PMPS=111 To shoot or not to shoot?

I don't know what to do. I was going to try .25U tonight, but Oliver's BG has been dropping over the last 5 hours. I did give him his prednisolone late tonight. That might be one reason why his PMPS is so low. I will hate to see him spike over night, but I don't think I can have another few hours like this morning.

What to do.... What to do....
 
Re: 6/14 - Oliver -AMPS=122,+10 - 121

Hi :-D
I saw you wrote about prednisolone in yesterday's condo, but I was too tired to post last night.
I thought I'd post today, but you were having a very exciting morning, so I thought I'd wait.
Since things seemed to have calmed down now, I'd like to share my experience.
Lucy has been on prednisolone for years, initially for both IBD and asthma, and now mostly for IBD since she seems to have grown out of asthma.
Until last year, she had been on 5mg once a day every other day for probably almost 10 years.
Then she was dx'd with diabetes (2nd time around actually) last year, and I noticed in her ss that her numbers were a little higher every other day.
Like you, I wanted to reduce the dose, so I talked with the vet, and what I did was this.
First, I changed the schedule to 2.5mg every day instead of 5mg every other day, so she was still getting the same amount essentially.
She did fine with that, so after 3 weeks or so, I reduced it to 2.5mg every other day.
At first it looked as though she was doing fine, but then her IBD got worse. She started having diarrhea more frequently.
I so resisted increasing the pred dose back up, so I tried a couple of courses of metronidazole treatments, but after 2 months, I had to give up and admit that she does need more pred.
When I decided to increase the pred dose back up, I discussed with the vet again, and decided to do 2.5mg every day instead of the original 5mg every other day, in order to keep her BG cycles more even.
After the pred dose was increased back up, Lucy felt much better and her diarrhea resolved too.
When I reduced the dose to 2.5mg every other day, her numbers didn't improve at all, I guess because her IBD got worse.
Inflammation could raise the BG too.
By giving her 2.5mg every day in stead of 5mg every other day, her cycles are more even day to day, so it's easier to make a dosing decision.
I used to give it in the evening, but I changed it to morning because I prefer that if she has a pred spike, I'd rather she has it in the AM cycle, so I can go to work and not worry too much.
I don't think her pred spike is too bad, but she's on a very low dose.
Typically, her +2 are higher than PS in pred cycles, her numbers goes more or less flat from there.
In non-pred cycles, her +2 are typically lower than PS.
I give pred to her with the 1st breakfast at the AMPS.
I read that pred could irritate the stomach lining and should be given with food to prevent that, so I want to give it to Lucy when I know there will be plenty of food in her tummy.
Some days she has a pred spike, and some days she doesn't.
These are my experience with Lucy & pred, and may not apply to Oliver since ECID but I think it's a good idea what you are doing.
Trying to taper off slowly to find the minimum dose Oliver needs to manage his IBD.
But please do not be disappointed if you cannot get rid of it completely.
Our cats need what they need, and I find that FD is easier to deal with than IBD.
With diabetes, you can help with insulin, and you can see how the cat is doing with numbers clearly.
With IBD, you can't really see how bad, and I think inflammation is harder on the cat.
I looked at his ss, and I do see what you mean about pred spiking his BG.
But I think it's yet too early to tell how much of it is from pred since you skipped a few shots.
It may not be too bad. Good luck figuring out the pred/insulin dose!
I hope my experience helps some.
 
Re: 6/14 - Oliver -PMPS=111 To shoot or not to shoot? Stall

Thanks so much for the information.

I had the 1.25 mg. capsules made at a compounding pharmacy. I figured an even dose every day would make it easier for me to monitor the diabetes.(Rather than an every other day dose.) So far, he has done really well on the reduced dose. He has even gained weight which I have been hoping for.

But managing the diabetes with the pred. is really hard. He tends to spike really high about 6 hours after I give him his PM shot. But then, his morning readings are low.

I'm not sure what to do tonight. I hate to skip a shot and I'm pretty sure he is going to spike tonight, but I don't want to take any chances. I thought I'd stall for a while to see what happens. Fortunately, I am retired, so adjusting the 12 hour cycle and monitoring him are not problems for me.
 
Re: 6/14 - Oliver -PMPS=111 To shoot or not to shoot? Stall

If his appetite is good, and you can stay up with him until he surfs safely, I would shoot.
I think this is a good opportunity to see how he does with pred on board when his preshot number is lowish.
You did great this morning.... I'm sure you can keep him safe as long as you can get him to eat extra if needed.
It's risky if the cat's appetite is iffy which is often the case with Lucy.
 
Re: 6/14 - Oliver -PMPS=111 To shoot or not to shoot? Stall

I just tried to give him some food and he wasn't interested. I'm going to test him again in 1/2 hour.
 
Re: 6/14 - Oliver -PMPS=111 To shoot or not to shoot? Stall

Sometimes, stalling make the numbers goes unshootably low.
I usually like to just shoot and feed while I can on a pred cycle.
He's currently on a smaller dose of insulin, so I wouldn't think you'd be in a really dangerous trouble, but it's important to do what feels comfortable to you.
 
Re: 6/14 - Oliver -PMPS=111 To shoot or not to shoot? Stall

Oh, OK, iffy appy needs a different plan....
Testing again is a good idea!
 
Re: 6/14 - Oliver -PMPS=111 +1=140. Going to shoot .25U

Okay. I did it. .25 is such a little bit, I almost feel like I gave him nothing.
 
Re: 6/14 - Oliver -PMPS=111 +1=140. Going to shoot .25U

Congrats on the reduction today Linda! Paws crossed for some nice easy surfing tonight. You might want some early tests to see what he's got planned. I hope he eats some more soon.

When you stall, instead of PMPS it's called a PMBG (PM blood glucose) or you can just all it a +12. That let's us know you hadn't shot yet. On your spreadsheet, it's easier if you write the 140 as 140@+13, then we know you stalled 1 hour. You have it in your notes but it's easier to see the stall over in the PMPS column.
 
Re: 6/14 - Oliver -PMPS=111 +1=140. Going to shoot .25U

Good shooting!
Surf, Oliver.
And please eat your food!
 
Re: 6/14 - Oliver -PMPS=111 +1=140. Going to shoot .25U

He did just eat a couple of teaspoons of LC Fancy Feast.
 
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