7/28 Cobb AMPS 231(No R) +9 187 PMPS 160(No R)

Yesterday

I'm going to try and let Cobb work out this little bounce on his own instead of flooding him with more R. I will say it is interesting to see how Cobb has responded to holding this dose and refusing to go up, even when the numbers technically call for an increase.

Thank you for all the healing vines for Matty. I think he's feeling better this morning. The new antibiotic seems to be getting him back on his feet more quickly than the other one. We now have penicillin written down as a drug allergy. :roll: But at least it was a mild reaction and nothing too serious. I told Matt that I freaked out when I saw the rash, and he said, "really? you seemed pretty calm when you told me about it." I said it was because I was holding Matty and didn't want to scare him, but I was freaking out pretty bad. Sigh. But it seems to be fading and he was playing more than normal last night. He's finally starting to clear some of the phlegm and crud that he's got going on -- coughing it up, gross, but productive. I think that was part of what was holding back his recovery...he couldn't really get any of that cleared out of his chest. We've also been giving him a little bit of Benadryl (per the doctor) to help out...it's definitely helped out with him sleeping. He slept AWESOME last night, which means I slept awesome last night. Hopefully this will get him into a nice habit of sleeping well. (Hey, a mom can dream, right?) :lol:

Anyway, I hope you all have a fantastic week! Healing vines to all who need them, and lots of thoughts and prayers for Rick today.

~Suzanne

Re: 7/28 Cobb AMPS 231(No R)

i was thinking the same thing about cobb's dose. somehow, when you drew the line at one syringe, he's stayed within the limit. now what's that about? is Cobb psychic?

good news on matty. it's so hard for little ones to be sick.

Re: 7/28 Cobb AMPS 231(No R)

Just wanted to send some healing vines to Matty, and wishes for a speedy recovery. Poor wee guy. Yay to having an awesome sleep though
Sending Cobb loads of scritches! Have a great day Suzanne!!!

Re: 7/28 Cobb AMPS 231(No R)

I have absolutely nothing to back up what I'm about to say :lol: Just a theory on my part.

By drawing the line on one syringe, I was forced (by myself) to figure out a way to address those higher BGs. I think I did that with the R. I wonder if, by pouring that much R into his system over what - a month or two time frame - it was enough to get ahead of the IAA. There were a few days where I was doing R 3x a day. So if the "answer" to IAA is more insulin to get ahead of those antibodies, I wonder if the "treatment" for IAA is the R insulin (or another in and out insulin like R). That way there is a plethora of insulin in the system for the antibodies to snack on/attach to, but then there is a backup of the longer lasting Lantus to bring the BG down when it can. Does that make sense?

Obviously I drew that conclusion from my very, insignificant sample size of 1 cat. :lol: To test out the theory, others with IAA cats would have to test it out as well.

Re: 7/28 Cobb AMPS 231(No R)

i think it could be that R is a different insulin. The iaa forms to the specific insulin, as far as i understand. Cobb's antibodies are to Lantus. By adding R in you've introduced an insulin that he didn't already have antibodies to. He likely has begun to develop some, because you're using larger amounts than you had to before.

although as i say that, there were time i used up to a couple of units with punkin - never much more than that, and he didn't have any iaa.

i have wondered what would happen if you switched to lev. would he immediately need less insulin because he didn't have antibodies to it?

perhaps that was the key for ozy to get him to respond. i don't know. we'll have to observe this in the next iaa cat. it may be polly.

edited to add: really interesting ideas, suzanne. perhaps your relatively heavy use of R over the short time frame caused a change in his body. i'm not sure if his iaa has broken - he's still getting a big dose, but on the other hand, if he's also acro that could explain the larger dose. good thoughts.

Re: 7/28 Cobb AMPS 231(No R)

Funny you mention Lev. I am down to my last vial of Lantus actually. I'm considering whether switching to Lev is the next step. It would definitely be interesting to see how he responds to it, and if it drastically brings down his dose. I have a prescription for Lantus through the end of October. And our vet hasn't used Lev in a cat before, so I know she was hesitant about prescribing it, when we last talked in April. I can obviously email her some info off of here and see if she feels better about it. It does seem like she trusted my decisions in how to treat Cobb, but this would be an interesting way to see how supportive she actually is.

I'd love input on what you think is best. Come September 13th, Cobb will have been on Lantus for a year. Prozinc for 6 months before that. He seems to be responding to the Lantus, and I don't necessarily want to rock the boat there. But I'd love to give him less of a dose as well! Decisions, decisions...

Re: 7/28 Cobb AMPS 231(No R)

i edited my last post while you were posting.

your ideas are really interesting. i have to think on it, although my first reaction would be that i would switch him. i've seen so many cats do better on lev that i would want to give it a try. if it isn't better, you can always switch back.

somewhere there is a link to the post on lantus vs lev and the differences you could give your vet - i think it's on the TR sticky, if not, on the taking care of your insulin one. i have to run out now for a bit, but i'll check back in with you later today.

good thoughts. you're a smart woman!

Re: 7/28 Cobb AMPS 231(No R) +9 187

Nice to see that blue again without R.

Here is the link to the article on differences between Lantus and Levemir.

As to your theories on R and IAA, I can't comment because I never used R. Neko's IAA broke when she got to a dose where she started seeing green more than once. I think the same thing happened to Nancy's Pepper and she didn't use R either. Both Neko and Pepper were on Lantus then. We've also seen a couple of other kitties (Charms and Mr. Grey) that weren't tested for IAA or acro, but got to higher doses, started seeing greens then all of a sudden started racing down the dosing scale.

I remember reading one article on IAA in humans, that said that acid based insulins (such as Lantus) create more immune response than neutral preparations and that short acting insulins have less immune response. If the same is true in cats, then Levemir might be a better long lasting insulin choice for IAA kitties. And it could mean your use of R has been helping get over the antibodies as you suggest.

Hi there

Suzanne & Cobb said:

I'm going to try and let Cobb work out this little bounce on his own instead of flooding him with more R.

Click to expand...

I remember reaching a point with BK - I needed to see if we could dump the R. It was when he reached his highest Lantus dose (13.5u).
It was also the first glimpses of change (10/31/2008-11/01/2008).
Although I used R very liberally, BK didn't see much green. I was considering trying Lev, which had not been on the scene long at that time, however things turned around.

Suzanne & Cobb said:

So if the "answer" to IAA is more insulin to get ahead of those antibodies, I wonder if the "treatment" for IAA is the R insulin (or another in and out insulin like R).

Click to expand...

My understanding is that IAA (in humans) is self-limiting , lasting a few months to a year. I'm not sure there is an 'answer' to IAA. Using enough insulin to try and overwhelm the antibodies to the point of safe numbers is a good thing and what I tried to do.

The more I think about IAA in general and IAA with BK, the more questions I have. . . .

Very interesting discussion and I think you a every wise in exploring the possibilities, Suzanne.

I've been told by some of our most experienced members that if, after a year on an insulin, there isn't really good progress, you should try a different one. That didn't specifically apply to high dose cats esp with IAA where you have other issues in the mix. But it seems to me it's a good idea to switch to lev and see what he does.

You will just have to learn to shoot R differently. On the old board, most lev users also used R because of the later onset of lev. However, as Wendy said, she's not brrn able to use it with Neko.

If you decide to switch, Wendy, Dyana, and I are lev users (all switched from Lantus) and Dyana and I have used R with lev so we can help with Wendy, Julie, and Sandys I put on the high dose part of it.

Glad Matty is better Sending more healing vines.