3 MAX AMPS 273+3.5/201+6/84+7/67 PMPS 93+1/145+5/103+7/102

YESTERDAY:
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Bounce started last night. I tested at +4 and he was at 293 and is 273 this morning. He threw up some fur shortly before TFS. Good news is that he is in the room with me and gave me some head butts so hopefully he won't hide all day and night like yesterday.

Vines and prayers to all in need for beans and kitties.

I'm starting to wonder if I should change Max to a prescription diet food to get his weight down. There is no way this cat is going to lose weight. He is not a happy cat and I don't know if the weight is to blame or other issues. He is at least 1 1/2-2 pounds overweight. I know this might cause high BG but I'm approaching a year of this and I just don't have a happy cat. He doesn't come to visit me at night any more and the best I get is a few head butts and rubbing against me in the morning and sitting near me then and at some points in the day or night. What do you think?

Re: 10/30 MAX AMPS 273

Dr. Lisa on the CatInfo site is pretty down on prescription diets. I just looked to see what she says about obesity - not sure if there is something in there that is helpful to you, but that's the site I would start on for information on how to manage Max's weight. http://www.catinfo.org/#Obesity

I doubt the prescription diet is going to be the answer. Getting him moving - even putting his food in one of those balls that he has to work at to get the food - might be helpful. I took punkin for walks. Bought a harness and leash that was elastic, and started with just getting him used to it in the house, taking it off if he got excited about it. Then we went outside and at the first sign of him getting agitated, I'd pick him up. Gradually worked it up to longer and he got so he really liked it. We never went far - i live in a culdesac, but a cat only eats 200 or so calories per day. Burning any calories at all will be helpful. One little trick is to put the food as far away from him as you can - so if he's hanging out in the living room, move the food to the back of your bedroom. Let him eat a bit, pick it up and move the dish to another room.

If you get him outside, you can carry him a couple of houses away from your place, then set him down and let him walk back. Although I'm thinking you're in an apartment, maybe, so that might be tricky depending on your neighborhood. Can you drive him to a quiet park and walk him a short distance there? He'll get used to whatever you do.

It's hard to get cats to lose weight slowly - good luck! I will say that punkin didn't have a weight issue after he became diabetic, but he stopped letting me hold him months before he died. We thought he hurt from arthritis, which was why we tried all kinds of pain relief things for him.

Re: +2/315+3.5/201

Hi Julie. Thanks for the info. I have read the info on that site. I do live in a condo but in addition to that Max is afraid of everything and everybody. He used to get a pancreatitis attack every time I took him to the vet. Things got worse when my other cat died and he hides whenever anyone comes to my place. The last time I had a house guest he never came out from under the bed until she was gone! He never was an active cat either. He used to play a little with straws but the most exercise he got was chasing Tiffany. My vet doesn't think he is in any pain. That is why I was considering a diet just to get a little extra weight off. I've been trying and the scale doesn't budge. I guess I should be happy that he isn't gaining any.

Re: +2/315+3.5/201

I agree with Julie....and Dr. Lisa. I would not do a prescription diet.

You are very knowledgable and great with Max but I'm wondering what you've tried? Just reducing his calories? And you think he is hungry just with that reduction in calories?

What I did with Gracie (and I might have already shared this so please forgive), based on Dr. Lisa's site, is (I knew she was a little on the "chubby" side) I weighed her. I figured out how many calories I was giving her and how many she should actually have. I just started slowly working towards what she should have (the amounts really weren't far apart but I did not want to do anything drastic). I weighed her once a week and if she hadn't lost, I cut her calories back just a wee but more. When she finally started weighing less, I made sure she was not losing more than 1% of her weight a week. Then when I got her where I wanted her, I added just a few calories back so she would maintain. I still weigh her weekly and keep it on an excel sheet. She goes up and down a few ounces. The big difference with her and Max is she LOVES to play. Also....there were times, and still are times, when she acts really hungry but she's had her calories or close to it. When that happens, I just give her a few pieces of boiled chicken breast and then she's happy.

Re: +2/315+3.5/201+5/131

Hi Marje. I think what fouls me up with Max is when he drops and I need to feed him. Maybe I give him too much then. He really doesn't act super hungry except in the early mornings and then not always. I'm doing such of mix of foods it's hard to gauge but I know he is eating less but maintaining his weight. He's always been a lazy cat and since he got pancreatitis and diabetes even more so which doesn't help at all. I have to drag him out from under the bed so much of the time these days. You'd never know a cat lived here. I don't know if that is contributing to his actions or not. Right now he gets a mix of fancy feast classics turkey, chicken/liver, and chicken, Stella's, Trader Joe's turkey & giblets, and Friskies special diet turkey and Soulistic Triple Harmony when he needs hc. I tried last week giving him Weruva when I knew he wasn't low as it is less calories and he did leave it some of the time which was fine. I need to get more. With the mix I might be feeding more than I realize. I'll start adding it to my ss again.

So it's not so much he's hungry with the reduction in calories. He's just not losing weight. Thanks.

Re: MAX AMPS 273+2/315+3.5/201+5/131+6/84

It's kind of an out in left field suggestion but have you considered the Feliway diffusers for cats? I have seen them work wonders in my cats and those of my friends. They aren't just for urine marking. They helped Lobster get over the last few humps of accepting Sarge as a new housemate a few years back, they helped Diesel not be afraid of his shadow and not play so rough with Lobster and they have helped the cats feel at home after spending 11 hours in a car and being plopped in a new house. Last month I put one in a friend's house and her cat that vomits almost daily he gets himself so worked up, weathered a really bad storm with no puke. He also got more social, didn't hide when I came over anymore and let me pet him for the first time. The diffusers have an analog to feline facial pheromone in them to help the cat feel secure, which makes them more adventurous and less likely to spend the whole day in hiding. Anytime I let mine run out I am sorry for one reason or another. Usually because Lobster gets shy about drinking from the water fountain and gets constipated. Then Diesel starts ambushing me because his buddy won't wrestle with him. When the diffuser is full the house is full of harmony

Re: MAX AMPS 273+2/315+3.5/201+5/131+6/84+7/67

Hi Alison. Thanks for stopping by. I haven't used the diffusers but did buy the spray to use in his carrier before going to the vet but it didn't seem to do anything. He has been having episodes of something similar to bronchitis so I hesitate to put out diffusers. He doesn't get scared at home unless I have company which I rarely do since he became diabetic. I just meet everyone somewhere else.

So the new nadir appears to be +7. I didn't feed him except for a little bit of fd chicken at +6 and he continued to drop. I just gave him just one piece of fd after the test to see if he will surf or drop more without food. Usually when I see a test in the 60's or lower I feed him a little ff if at +6 or later and some 9% if at +4 or earlier.

Re: MAX AMPS 273+2/315+3.5/201+5/131+6/84+7/67

Lovely cycle for Max today. :mrgreen: Yet again with that late nadir. :roll:

Chiming in with another vote for No on the prescription diets. I used to work part time/volunteer at a our local shelter for a while. At one point, we had a room full of chubby cats that were put together because they all needed to lose weight. Not knowing any better, the shelter at the time was feeding R/D, the prescription diet for weight loss. BTW, one of the kitties in that room was Theo - he weighed 17 lbs at the time. Not surprisingly, the cats didn't lose much weight. Now Theo is here 3 years later, eating raw food. He's a little over 13 lbs and could lose some more. I'm searching for lower calorie raw chicken than what they are currently eating. Every time I find one with a good carb%, the manufacturer discontinues it or changes the formula. :-x The other 3 proteins they eat are fine on calories. Total calories is key.

I'm curious why the vet thought Max wasn't in any pain. Cats are great at hiding pain. Before I started Neko on daily bupe, she was quieter and withdrawn. Now she's playing more, purring more, and engaging with us.

Re: MAX AMPS 273+2/315+3.5/201+5/131+6/84+7/67

My vet manipulated Max and had him walking on his hind legs and felt he wasn't in pain. He did that the last couple of times I brought him there. It's so frustrating. I Max could talk to me. I know it's been suggested I get a second opinion but there isn't a vet that I feel comfortable going to that won't just run up a big bill and have more expertise than my vet. One thing about Dr. M. Is he won't ever run up a bill for monetary reasons. He didn't even do that before they sold to VCA. Good vets that will work with someone with some knowledge are hard to come by I think.

I'm starting to wonder if he's had a late nadir a lot more than I thought. Thanks for telling me about the fat cats, Wendy. I won't change Max's food. I do have another food question. Could the raw freeze dried Stella & Chewy's possibly have raised Max's calcium a little? I didn't ask my vet about that. The company did say the carbs are only 1-3% but they won't allow it to be put on lists for fear it won't be listed correctly.

Re: MAX AMPS 273+2/315+3.5/201+5/131+6/84+7/67+8/70

Nice bounce clearing today for Max. I hope you can figure out the food situation and help Max lose some weight. I know how hard it is. Furball could stand to lose a couple of pounds, but I have to leave extra food out when I go to work if I think she's going to go low. It is difficult with a diabetic cat.

Re: MAX AMPS 273+2/315+3.5/201+5/131+6/84+7/67+8/70

i was thinking about Max today and the weight situation. We had a kitty, Felix, who was just a moose. He was the typical striped brown tabby and he got up to 24lbs. We had him on weight loss prescription dry food. Pre-punkin-diabetes, of course. The poor guy got 1/8 cup (2 Tablespoons) of dry food twice a day. He always acted like he was starving. He lost maybe 3 pounds and was miserable the whole time. It wasn't a happy experience.

Lots of people have recommended the FEliway diffusers, and like you, I'd bought the spray. Didn't seem like it did anything. Based upon Alison's comments, though, I'm thinking i'll pick up a diffuser. I'm still having lots of problems with the 2 young cats (1.5yrs old) that i got after punkin died blending with Anya, my 5 yr old Norwegian Forest cat. She's so scared of Frodo and he is very aggressive with her. He chases her all the time and she's always hissing and growling at him. I'm picking up bits of fur from the floor all the time and they're always Anya's. Maybe a difuser works better than the spray.

Re: MAX AMPS 273+2/315+3.5/201+5/131+6/84+7/67+8/70PMPS 93

Nice PMPS Max! :mrgreen:

Diffusers are better than a spray. The spray is good for short term needs but wears off after a while and you have to keep spraying. I've got diffusers going here, mostly to calm the cystitis prone civie.

Re: MAX AMPS 273+2/315+3.5/201+5/131+6/84+7/67+8/70PMPS 93

Very nice numbers for Max!!! Getting a kitty to lose weight is tough....I hope you find what works for Max. Have a great evening, Elise - prayers for your Mom!!

Re: MAX AMPS 273+2/315+3.5/201+5/131+6/84+7/67+8/70PMPS 93

Hi Elise. Sorry you're having weight troubles with Max. My civvie Brooklyn is also on the plump side and her favorite hobby is napping. I have been strategizing ways to get her to exercise more too. Have you tried non-cat toys? For some reason, despite the ridiculous amount of cat toys all over my apartment, Brooklyn doesn't love cat toys (unless they have catnip in them, but even then, she gets bored quickly). However, she will chase/swat at ribbon or yarn pretty enthusiastically at least for a few minutes at a time (supervised). She will also go after a laser pointer. I feel bad with the laser pointer since she's chasing something she will never catch, but if it gets her to exercise, it's for the best. She will also chase after toys that I throw sometimes. She won't do anything with them, but it gets her moving. Maybe you have tried these strategies, but I figure it can't hurt to mention just in case. It took me a while to figure out what Brooklyn would respond to.

I also have nothing good to say about prescription food. I think it's a scam. The ingredients are garbage. Billie's old vet tried to put her on SD and then CD when she had bladder crystals a year or so ago. Even though I transitioned the food change slowly, both cats started throwing up and having diarrhea from it, which they had never done before and have never done since, even with all Billie's recent food changes.

I can see how it would be really tough to watch calories and deal with low numbers at the same time. It sounds like a tricky balancing act.

Re: MAX AMPS 273+2/315+3.5/201+5/131+6/84+7/67+8/70PMPS 93+1

Max will have nothing to do with toys even if I am holding them. He gained weight on dry CD which he ate after he blocked and I nearly lost him. I would make balls out of the canned and get him to eat it for a few years. I'd have to lock Tiffany out of the room while I fed him. After about 4 or 5 years and him refusing the CD canned I was told I could switch to any canned food and he would lose weight. He did very slowly. He inched up some before he got diabetes and was 14 pounds 7 oz. at diagnosis. He is now 15 lbs. 15oz. So Billie is a little more active than Max, Deanna.

He's been under the bed again most of today and now too. He went to his box and sat in it for a long time without producing anything. I'm starting to get a little nervous. I hope he pees soon. He did a couple of times today but not yet tonight. Why do they do these things at night or on the weekends?

Thanks for the well wishes for my mom Amy. She is acting strange today so I hope she doesn't have another infection starting or is getting dehydrated again. Our phone call was quite odd.