ramonaghan
Member Since 2014
Had an exciting evening. He's due for his shot now--does he get another dose reduction to .5u after dipping below 80 (AlphaTrak 2) after only one dose of .75u?
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12/19 Henry AMPS 101, +2 137, +5 98, +7 96, PMPS 137, +2 73
- Thread starter ramonaghan
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Amy&TrixieCat
Member Since 2011
Re: 12/19 Henry AMPS 101, need advice
I'm sorry no one answered you before you shot...sometimes mornings are challenging with folks not quite awake yet. I saw you shot a reduced dose - that was probably a good idea...better safe than sorry, and if it turns out to not be enough insulin, you can always raise it up.
Just given how "active" Henry is, if you can test by +2 at the latest, just to see what's what, that would be great.
Awesome job last night!!
I'm sorry no one answered you before you shot...sometimes mornings are challenging with folks not quite awake yet. I saw you shot a reduced dose - that was probably a good idea...better safe than sorry, and if it turns out to not be enough insulin, you can always raise it up.
Just given how "active" Henry is, if you can test by +2 at the latest, just to see what's what, that would be great.
Awesome job last night!!
ramonaghan
Member Since 2014
Re: 12/19 Henry AMPS 101, need advice
Thank you! I know we haven't been very consistent, but I was nervous about him dipping so low again and am too sleep-deprived to take that risk. I will be sure to get a +2. Waiting for the vet to call back.
Amy&TrixieCat said:
Thank you! I know we haven't been very consistent, but I was nervous about him dipping so low again and am too sleep-deprived to take that risk. I will be sure to get a +2. Waiting for the vet to call back.
Amy&TrixieCat
Member Since 2011
Re: 12/19 Henry AMPS 101, need advice
It can take a while to find a dose that you can consistently and safely shoot...you're doing a great job with the testing and keeping Henry safe, and above all that is what's most important!
It can take a while to find a dose that you can consistently and safely shoot...you're doing a great job with the testing and keeping Henry safe, and above all that is what's most important!
ramonaghan
Member Since 2014
Re: 12/19 Need advice: Henry AMPS 101, +2 137
He's 137 at AMPS +2. Bounce?
He's 137 at AMPS +2. Bounce?
Amy&TrixieCat
Member Since 2011
Re: 12/19 Need advice: Henry AMPS 101, +2 137
Could be the start of a bounce, or it could just be a food spike. Time will tell us which it is!
Could be the start of a bounce, or it could just be a food spike. Time will tell us which it is!
Ann & Tess GA
Member Since 2010
Re: 12/19 Need advice: Henry AMPS 101, +2 137
Great work last night! Henry is looking good this morning too, it's normal for the numbers to be up at +2. Don't be alarmed though if he suddenly shoots way up. When a cat starts to experience numbers lower than his body is used to the liver can panic and dump glucagon and counter regulatory hormones into the system. That can happen even if the numbers are in or above the normal range if it is unfamiliar territory. But you may be luck and Henry won't bounce, paws crossed. But if he does it can take up to 6 cycles for the hormones to clear his system, so don't panic and think you need to increase. My Tess bounces a lot, some cats get over it as they get used to normal numbers and others never bounce at all.
Great work last night! Henry is looking good this morning too, it's normal for the numbers to be up at +2. Don't be alarmed though if he suddenly shoots way up. When a cat starts to experience numbers lower than his body is used to the liver can panic and dump glucagon and counter regulatory hormones into the system. That can happen even if the numbers are in or above the normal range if it is unfamiliar territory. But you may be luck and Henry won't bounce, paws crossed. But if he does it can take up to 6 cycles for the hormones to clear his system, so don't panic and think you need to increase. My Tess bounces a lot, some cats get over it as they get used to normal numbers and others never bounce at all.
ramonaghan
Member Since 2014
Re: 12/19 Need advice: Henry AMPS 101, +2 137
Gotcha, thanks for the heads up. We will ride it out...though still not sure whether at .5u or .75u BID.
Ann & Tess said:
Gotcha, thanks for the heads up. We will ride it out...though still not sure whether at .5u or .75u BID.
Re: 12/19 Need advice: Henry AMPS 101, +2 137
Quite the night last night! Well done you two.
Since you've already reduced to .5U, I'd stick with it for now as Amy suggested. Lantus likes consistent dosing so let's see what .5U can do. I'd give it at least 4 cycles before deciding whether he's going to need more juice.
Quite the night last night! Well done you two.
Since you've already reduced to .5U, I'd stick with it for now as Amy suggested. Lantus likes consistent dosing so let's see what .5U can do. I'd give it at least 4 cycles before deciding whether he's going to need more juice.
Ann & Tess GA
Member Since 2010
Re: 12/19 Need advice: Henry AMPS 101, +2 137
It's your call, as Amy said you can always go back up. However, the lows you saw last night were probably due to depot reserve. It can take several days for a dose change to balance out. So you could consider the .5u a BCS (Big Chicken s**t) shot and go back to the .75u, or see what happens at .5u. Just try to stick w/ one dose for at least 6 cycles, unless he definitely lets you know he want another reduction.
It's your call, as Amy said you can always go back up. However, the lows you saw last night were probably due to depot reserve. It can take several days for a dose change to balance out. So you could consider the .5u a BCS (Big Chicken s**t) shot and go back to the .75u, or see what happens at .5u. Just try to stick w/ one dose for at least 6 cycles, unless he definitely lets you know he want another reduction.
ramonaghan
Member Since 2014
Re: 12/19 Need advice: Henry AMPS 101, +2 137
Will do. Thankfully the half-unit syringes will be delivered today.
We're now two for two as far as something wonky happening in the couple of days preceding a curve...last time it was a fur shot. Murphy's Law, I guess.
Wendy&Neko said:
Will do. Thankfully the half-unit syringes will be delivered today.
We're now two for two as far as something wonky happening in the couple of days preceding a curve...last time it was a fur shot. Murphy's Law, I guess.
Sandy and Black Kitty
Member Since 2009
Re: 12/19 Need advice: Henry AMPS 101, +2 137
Hi there
Looking good today! :mrgreen:
I too think it's a good idea to hold at .5u for 4 cycles so the dose can settle in and then evaluate.
If the numbers signal there is not enough juice on board , you take the dose up.
Increasing methodically by .25u increments, allowing each dose to settle in and show what it can or cannot do is the way to go with Lantus.
Think of working with Lantus like steering an ocean liner - it's slow moving and takes a bit of time before adjustments in direction are completed.
Hi there
Looking good today! :mrgreen:
I too think it's a good idea to hold at .5u for 4 cycles so the dose can settle in and then evaluate.
If the numbers signal there is not enough juice on board , you take the dose up.
Increasing methodically by .25u increments, allowing each dose to settle in and show what it can or cannot do is the way to go with Lantus.
Think of working with Lantus like steering an ocean liner - it's slow moving and takes a bit of time before adjustments in direction are completed.
ramonaghan
Member Since 2014
Re: 12/19 Need advice: Henry AMPS 101, +2 137
Yes, I'm very pleased with his numbers today, and we'll keep going with .5u. Thank you so much for your help last night/this morning.
Sandy and Black Kitty said:Hi there
Looking good today! :mrgreen:
I too think it's a good idea to hold at .5u for 4 cycles so the dose can settle in and then evaluate.
If the numbers signal there is not enough juice on board , you take the dose up.
Increasing methodically by .25u increments, allowing each dose to settle in and show what it can or cannot do is the way to go with Lantus.
Think of working with Lantus like steering an ocean liner - it's slow moving and takes a bit of time before adjustments in direction are completed.
Yes, I'm very pleased with his numbers today, and we'll keep going with .5u. Thank you so much for your help last night/this morning.
rhiannon and shadow (GA)
Member Since 2012
Re: 12/19 Henry AMPS 101, +2 137, +5 98, +7 96
Looking good....
won't be long until you can tell your vet.... In Your Face!
(not really,, ;-) )
just another example to all of us of vets who think they know more than they do. I'm so glad you listened to us.
Looking good....
won't be long until you can tell your vet.... In Your Face!
(not really,, ;-) )
just another example to all of us of vets who think they know more than they do. I'm so glad you listened to us.
julie & punkin (ga)
Member Since 2011
Re: 12/19 Henry AMPS 101, +2 137, +5 98, +7 96
looking great today! and good job handling things last night - you did just right. I'm glad Sandy was online to check in with you.
I'd also stick with 0.5u tonight.
Sometimes when a cat is healing and going DOWN the dosing ladder (ie, having dose decreases), it can be slow and methodical (a week at a time at each dose) or fast a furious (going off of insulin in just a few days.) You'll take your lead from Mr. Henry. At any point if you are uncertain about the dose and no one is online to help you make a decision, go with your gut and err on the side of being conservative. You can always go back up in dose but you can't take it out once it's in. Sometimes newly diagnosed cats just don't need insulin help very long once they have gotten switched to low carb canned food. Let's hope that's going to be Henry's case.
Did you see that Jill posted about using 68 as the cut-off for reductions for AT users? We've had a lot of confusion about that because in one document it says 80 and another it says 68. So not to confuse you totally on your second day, but go with the 68 instead of the 80 we talked about yesterday. So unless he goes below 68, you will hold this dose for a few more days. If he goes below 68, treat him with carbs as a "low number event" that needs to be brought up.
looking great today! and good job handling things last night - you did just right. I'm glad Sandy was online to check in with you.
I'd also stick with 0.5u tonight.
Sometimes when a cat is healing and going DOWN the dosing ladder (ie, having dose decreases), it can be slow and methodical (a week at a time at each dose) or fast a furious (going off of insulin in just a few days.) You'll take your lead from Mr. Henry. At any point if you are uncertain about the dose and no one is online to help you make a decision, go with your gut and err on the side of being conservative. You can always go back up in dose but you can't take it out once it's in. Sometimes newly diagnosed cats just don't need insulin help very long once they have gotten switched to low carb canned food. Let's hope that's going to be Henry's case.
Did you see that Jill posted about using 68 as the cut-off for reductions for AT users? We've had a lot of confusion about that because in one document it says 80 and another it says 68. So not to confuse you totally on your second day, but go with the 68 instead of the 80 we talked about yesterday. So unless he goes below 68, you will hold this dose for a few more days. If he goes below 68, treat him with carbs as a "low number event" that needs to be brought up.
ramonaghan
Member Since 2014
Re: 12/19 Henry AMPS 101, +2 137, +5 98, +7 96
:lol: I'm glad too. I have to admit I get kinda nervous when I call her to basically say, "Henry's doing great! But we're ignoring everything you've told us." She's been very receptive, though, so hopefully our experience will benefit her other clients.
rhiannon and shadow said:
:lol: I'm glad too. I have to admit I get kinda nervous when I call her to basically say, "Henry's doing great! But we're ignoring everything you've told us." She's been very receptive, though, so hopefully our experience will benefit her other clients.
ramonaghan
Member Since 2014
Re: 12/19 Henry AMPS 101, +2 137, +5 98, +7 96
I certainly hope Henry can be diet-controlled sooner rather than later, but yikes is the process nerve-racking. The line between good and too low seems so thin sometimes.
I did see that post, but thank you for reminding me--and translating it! He'll probably test at 67 tonight to keep me on my toes. A similar question: the vet gave me a no-shoot number of <70. I've read the post on how to deal with low preshot numbers, and it sounds like it would be preferable to stall the shot rather than skipping altogether if I am able to monitor him/get feedback here? Just want to make sure I'm interpreting correctly that skipping should be kind of a last resort.
julie & punkin (ga) said:
I certainly hope Henry can be diet-controlled sooner rather than later, but yikes is the process nerve-racking. The line between good and too low seems so thin sometimes.
I did see that post, but thank you for reminding me--and translating it! He'll probably test at 67 tonight to keep me on my toes. A similar question: the vet gave me a no-shoot number of <70. I've read the post on how to deal with low preshot numbers, and it sounds like it would be preferable to stall the shot rather than skipping altogether if I am able to monitor him/get feedback here? Just want to make sure I'm interpreting correctly that skipping should be kind of a last resort.
julie & punkin (ga)
Member Since 2011
Re: 12/19 Henry AMPS 101, +2 137, +5 98, +7 96, PMPS 137
Of course we've got a holiday week coming and sometimes the board isn't as active then, but ideally, if you get a number that you're nervous about shooting because you think it's too low, we encourage people to do the following first step:
1. don't feed your kitty or shoot right away, post here and ask for guidance
2. put something to get attention in your subject line (editing the first post in the thread - only that subject line shows on the main page) like "Should I shoot now?" or "Need help now with shooting".
Experienced members will shoot most everything over 50 on a human glucometer (68 AT) as long as their cat isn't sick, is eating normally, and you have plenty of strips, high carb food and can monitor the cycle.
New people, though, usually should have someone available to help them through the first time that they are shooting normal numbers. The interesting thing is that Lantus works best on lower numbers - by lower i mean the normal blood sugar range, from 68-160 or so on an AT. When a cat gets their regular dose shot into that range, often the cat's blood sugar will just end up being a flat line instead of a curve over the rest of that cycle. It's very counter-intuitive, but that's how it typically works.
Now if a kitty is sick or not eating, or you don't have supplies or can't monitor, then skipping is probably the best option when faced with a lower preshot. You also have the option of delaying until the BGs begin to rise or shooting a reduced dose.
When you're faced with the situation, it's easiest if you can post and someone can help you walk through the decision. On the Shooting & Handling Low Numbers there are 3 sections. The first one is called "Becoming Data Ready" and what it means is becoming ready to shoot normal numbers safely. The second section is on what to do if you are faced with a lower preshot (in that normal range.) You might want to read through those just to get an idea about what it's about. I also wrote a post a while ago for someone that gives some spreadsheets to look at so you can see for yourself what happens when you "shoot low." That post is right here.
If I were you, I'd read up a bunch because it looks like you'll be faced with the situation, but then not worry too much about remembering all of it, and post when you get to that point. There is so much to learn here - when you get a diabetic kitty it's like a college crash course in Feline Diabetes 101 and it can be overwhelming. That's why experienced people stick around to dole out the info as you need it. It's a little less overwhelming that way - in the beginning it's hard to know what is most important to remember.
Looks like you didn't have to worry about it tonight, though.
Of course we've got a holiday week coming and sometimes the board isn't as active then, but ideally, if you get a number that you're nervous about shooting because you think it's too low, we encourage people to do the following first step:
1. don't feed your kitty or shoot right away, post here and ask for guidance
2. put something to get attention in your subject line (editing the first post in the thread - only that subject line shows on the main page) like "Should I shoot now?" or "Need help now with shooting".
Experienced members will shoot most everything over 50 on a human glucometer (68 AT) as long as their cat isn't sick, is eating normally, and you have plenty of strips, high carb food and can monitor the cycle.
New people, though, usually should have someone available to help them through the first time that they are shooting normal numbers. The interesting thing is that Lantus works best on lower numbers - by lower i mean the normal blood sugar range, from 68-160 or so on an AT. When a cat gets their regular dose shot into that range, often the cat's blood sugar will just end up being a flat line instead of a curve over the rest of that cycle. It's very counter-intuitive, but that's how it typically works.
Now if a kitty is sick or not eating, or you don't have supplies or can't monitor, then skipping is probably the best option when faced with a lower preshot. You also have the option of delaying until the BGs begin to rise or shooting a reduced dose.
When you're faced with the situation, it's easiest if you can post and someone can help you walk through the decision. On the Shooting & Handling Low Numbers there are 3 sections. The first one is called "Becoming Data Ready" and what it means is becoming ready to shoot normal numbers safely. The second section is on what to do if you are faced with a lower preshot (in that normal range.) You might want to read through those just to get an idea about what it's about. I also wrote a post a while ago for someone that gives some spreadsheets to look at so you can see for yourself what happens when you "shoot low." That post is right here.
If I were you, I'd read up a bunch because it looks like you'll be faced with the situation, but then not worry too much about remembering all of it, and post when you get to that point. There is so much to learn here - when you get a diabetic kitty it's like a college crash course in Feline Diabetes 101 and it can be overwhelming. That's why experienced people stick around to dole out the info as you need it. It's a little less overwhelming that way - in the beginning it's hard to know what is most important to remember.
Looks like you didn't have to worry about it tonight, though.
ramonaghan
Member Since 2014
Re: 12/19 Henry AMPS 101, +2 137, +5 98, +7 96, PMPS 137
Not for the PMPS number, but once again he's dropped like a rock at +2! He's at 73, so I gave him a few Greenies to try to slow him down and will test again shortly. (He had 1 can of FF right at PMPS.) After last night I feel like I know what to do, so I probably won't post again unless I run into problems. I'm going to set an alarm because I didn't manage to get in a nap today and am pretty wiped out.
Thanks for all the guidance and reading material--very helpful! Henry never misses a meal so that is one huge point in our favor re: low numbers.
julie & punkin (ga) said:Looks like you didn't have to worry about it tonight, though.
Not for the PMPS number, but once again he's dropped like a rock at +2! He's at 73, so I gave him a few Greenies to try to slow him down and will test again shortly. (He had 1 can of FF right at PMPS.) After last night I feel like I know what to do, so I probably won't post again unless I run into problems. I'm going to set an alarm because I didn't manage to get in a nap today and am pretty wiped out.
Thanks for all the guidance and reading material--very helpful! Henry never misses a meal so that is one huge point in our favor re: low numbers.
julie & punkin (ga)
Member Since 2011
Re: 12/19 Henry AMPS 101, +2 137, +5 98, +7 96, PMPS 137, +2
Have you used the gravy from high carb canned food yet? Not sure what you did last night. You can squeeze out the gravy and give it - most of the carbs are in that part.
If you need help, post.
Have you used the gravy from high carb canned food yet? Not sure what you did last night. You can squeeze out the gravy and give it - most of the carbs are in that part.
If you need help, post.
ramonaghan
Member Since 2014
Re: 12/19 Henry AMPS 101, +2 137, +5 98, +7 96, PMPS 137, +2
I used Nutro Max Senior Chicken & Lamb last night, which is 27% carb (and some Blue Buffalo kibble). I'll do that again.
julie & punkin (ga) said:
I used Nutro Max Senior Chicken & Lamb last night, which is 27% carb (and some Blue Buffalo kibble). I'll do that again.
Re: 12/19 Henry AMPS 101, +2 137, +5 98, +7 96, PMPS 137, +2
Hi Rachel
I haven't had a chance to welcome you and Henry. Henry is doing really well!!
Keep in mind that a larger dose can affect up to six subsequent cycles after you reduce. So don't be surprised if he gives you some lower numbers still, since you just reduced. As Julie said, when some cats are done, they come down slowly; others zoom zoom.
You're doing a great job. Glad you fed that drop!
Hi Rachel
I haven't had a chance to welcome you and Henry. Henry is doing really well!!
Keep in mind that a larger dose can affect up to six subsequent cycles after you reduce. So don't be surprised if he gives you some lower numbers still, since you just reduced. As Julie said, when some cats are done, they come down slowly; others zoom zoom.
You're doing a great job. Glad you fed that drop!
ramonaghan
Member Since 2014
Re: 12/19 Henry AMPS 101, +2 137, +5 98, +7 96, PMPS 137, +2
Thanks! Henry's keeping things exciting, that's for sure.
Marje and Gracie said:
Thanks! Henry's keeping things exciting, that's for sure.
Re: 12/19 Henry AMPS 101, +2 137, +5 98, +7 96, PMPS 137, +2
But not "Tooooo exciting"
But not "Tooooo exciting"
Sandy and Black Kitty
Member Since 2009
Re: 12/19 Henry AMPS 101, +2 137, +5 98, +7 96, PMPS 137, +2
Hello again
Henry is looking good and your close attention is keeping him safe.
The goal is to find the dose that will let Henry spend time in 'normal' numbers (68-160 or so on an AT), the longer the better. That is where healing can take place and his body has a chance to re-learn what normal BGs feel like.
On the other hand he may have other plans that require you put on a pot of coffee and fasten your seatbelt :mrgreen:
Go Henry!
Hello again
Henry is looking good and your close attention is keeping him safe.
Keep the above tip in mind. Think of it as a carb shooter - a little gravy delivers a lot of carbs and most kitties will lap it right up. And being that a little goes a long way, it lessens the chance your kittys stomach will get too full before the numbers stabilize in a safe range.julie & punkin (ga) said:
The goal is to find the dose that will let Henry spend time in 'normal' numbers (68-160 or so on an AT), the longer the better. That is where healing can take place and his body has a chance to re-learn what normal BGs feel like.
On the other hand he may have other plans that require you put on a pot of coffee and fasten your seatbelt :mrgreen:
Go Henry!
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