11/28 Leo AMPS 430 +2 481 PMPS 418 +3.5 222 +5.5 97 +6.5 94

Yesterday's Condo

Yesterday's Summary
AMPS 305
+1 349
+11 453
PMPS 455
+3 123 <--- What a drop! Surf: 1/4c 9% FF Tuna & Mackerel Flaked
+4 108 <--- Surf: 1/4c 9% FF Tuna & Mackerel Flaked
+6 145 <--- ok, ni ni
+11 492 <--- when will you ever stop these AM +11 leaps, fart cat?

Good morning

Nursing a plain 'ol cup of coffee - can't want to see what variety of espresso concoction Mannie will zip by my place and slide down the basement stairs!

So, to this +11 we have here, what EVER is Leo's obsession with AM blacks/reds/pinks? Seriously, Leo? At least he fell 60 points since +11. PMPS values are so much nicer. Of course, we're on this two-cycle cycle thing he does when he's settling. Then he dips below 50 a couple times, forcing a reduction, even with those horrid PS values. (I know, dose the nadir, but again, seriously Leo?) I was hoping that keeping him surfing in the blues with a little higher carb would temper the bounce a bit, but the plummet from 455 -> 123 in 3 hours was enough to freak out Mr L.

Leo seems to think that any body appendage under the covers is somehow a small rodent that should be stalked and eviscerated. Even if it's not moving (i.e., the owner of said limb is comatose). Then he weaves between my feet on the way back to bed after a test, when my eyes are still blinded from the bright nights. Fart. Now he *sure* there's a critter behind the stove. Which I doubt. Yesterday he was a consistent member of the CPC (except 3rd breakfast, not unusual). Loose poos are coming and going (sorry) but other Ps solidly (again, sorry) in place. I woke up this morning, and he was stretched out in his testing spot. He has ME trained to test him.

Have a good day all, and hugs and vines to kitties and beans in need.

Re: 11/28 Leo AMPS 430

Morning Lisa,
Funny! The early morning bunch is patiently waiting for Kitteh Barista!!
Leo sounds like a real hoot. Poor bean, trying to sleep quietly while being stalked by HUNTER KITTY. Hope he slides down nicely for you today.
Have a good day
mary and oliver

Re: 11/28 Leo AMPS 430 ponderings on bounce steering

(As I ponder Leo's 2-cycle bounces and how to address them, just thinking out loud) ...

Leo does these 2-cycle bounces where at AMPS he's high, cruises down to a low PMPS, dredges sometimes, then bounces back to AM (or vice-versa). He bounces are either from hitting greens, or from rapid drops at any time (like last night's plunge from red to blue in 3 hours). He earns reductions this way, and sometimes they don't hold, because the reduction comes after only 1 or 2 forays into greens on a particular dose. I hate giving reductions in the midst of pinks and reds for rare green (but <50) values.

Leo plunges between +1.5 and +3 if he's gonna take the dive, especially if he's clearing a bounce and I shoot a surf or falling number. If I could proactively steer the plunge, maybe I could even out the bounces more.

So, to the steering food to do this ... I feed at +0, +1 and +3 each cycle (meals #1, #2 and #3) to address his early plunges and nadirs (+5 to around +6 for a "normal" cycle). I generally feed 1%-4% carbs, and only go higher if he gives me a reason to. I'm thinking to increase the carb % in meal #2 when he's coming off a bounce, or even for meal #1, regardless of the BG values at that point. He regularly eats these two meals completely, and generally at the time I give them. He often doesn't eat #3, especially when it's in the feeder (on work days, and nights when I don't want to get up). I could give #3 at +2 rather than +3, but I want to spread it out a little ... if he doesn't eat much then, he'd still get some in him for nadir.

Anyway, we talked about surfing yesterday, so I thought I'd toss out my mental ponderings. Comments are welcome, as is of course, lurking

Re: 11/28 Leo AMPS 430 ponderings on bounce steering

Hi again,
I'm printing that out loud thinking so i can read it with Mannie's coffee. I'm anxious to hear what the answers are.
later dudette
mary and oliver

Re: 11/28 Leo AMPS 430 ponderings on bounce steering

I don't know that I'm seeing Leo dropping into overly low numbers. Sometimes that drops are big but, he's not in low greens. One thing to keep in mind is that most of our kitties bounce, until they stop. I do think Leo is due for a dose increase. You have room to increase the dose since he's not been below 70 on this dose. The increase may help to prevent some of the high numbers.

Your thoughts about food make good sense. However, I don't know that I would routinely raise the carb level. It may help to experiment so you have a sense of whether Leo is one of those kitties who does better on a slightly higher level of carbs. Not all cats do as well on a low, low carb diet. An alternative is to increase the carbs if you're seeing a big drop start.

What I do with Gabby is to try to use carbs to prevent decreasing her dose. I want to keep her at a dose as long as possible so I'm seeing her mid-cycle numbers look as good as possible (preferably green) and keep her cycles as flat as possible. Given my diving diva, this isn't as easy as it sounds especially since cats are notoriously oppositional!

Re: 11/28 Leo AMPS 430 ponderings on bounce steering

HI Sienne - I probably wasn't clear in my meanderings - I'm trying to do what you described ... prevent decreases. If you look at his SS, sometimes he gets a reduction heading into greens ... when he hasn't been in greens much for that dose. Now when I see a green, even a higher one, I steer a bit if it's early in the cycle. I want to flatten things out too. That's why I wanted to be proactive when I can sense he might do one of those dives that would force me to decrease his dose. I didn't plan to boost the carbs all the time, but I am wondering if he is one of those kitties who needs a bit higher carbs sometimes.

As for increasing his dose, I'm a little hesitant to, to be honest. I suspect he'll earn a decrease pretty quickly back down to this dose if I do. On his SS, every time you see an asterisk (*) next to a BG, I steered a little with food to smooth things out. That's kept him out of greens, but also allowed him to surf a little more in blues. I was hoping that would calm the bounces and get Mr Liver to be less twitchy and get with the program. The blues we are seeing are in or close to the normal range. You have a lot more experience with this - what do you think of my logic? Thanks!

Hi Mary - I'm looking for pointers too, and Sienne is great for that!

Re: 11/28 Leo AMPS 430 ponderings on bounce steering

Hi guys, hope you figure out the food/drop thing. It is difficult but I have been pretty successful with the food thing just eeding low carb unless he drops really low. Scrabble has been bouncing a lot lately but he did this the first time he was on the juice and then he finally figured it out and stopped bouncing but as you know ecid! Hope he comes down nicely for you today!

Re: 11/28 Leo AMPS 430 ponderings on bounce steering

I think if you see that surfing or dropping number it would be a good idea to steer w/ slightly higher carb foods to head off the drop. That fast drop is what is triggering the bouncing. I've also found that when I try to keep Tess on 0 to 2% foods she drops and bounces more, so I try to keep her closer to 4 or 5%.

I think it was Sienne that pointed out to me a couple of years ago that the raw food I was giving Tess was so low that there was not enough glucose in the blood for the insulin to work on, so it used nearly everything up and presto big drops and below 50 situations. A typical "mouse meal" is 4 or 5%.

Re: 11/28 Leo AMPS 430 ponderings on bounce steering

Sienne got me reading more on the protocol after she suggested that Leo is ready for a dose increase...

... and there IS a criteria for increasing the dose that I didn't realize (or just glazed over each time because it never applied). I keep hearing "we don't dose on the preshot values, we dose on the nadirs." But that's not an absolute ... it really says "we adjust doses based on the nadir with only small consideration given to the Preshot". Okay, so Leo is currently in that "SMALL CONSIDERATION" category!

Protocol Link
Phase 2: Increasing the dose:
1) If nadir blood glucose concentration >300mg/dL (17 mmol/L), Increase every 3 days by 0.5 IU
2) If nadir blood glucose concentration 200-300mg/dL (11-17 mmol/L), Increase every 3 days by 0.25-0.5 IU depending on if cat on low or high dose of insulin
3) If nadir blood glucose concentration < 200mg/dL but peak is > 200mg/dL (11 mmol/L) Increase every 5-7 days by 0.25-0.5 IU depending on if cat on low or high dose of insulin

I forgot about #3. Leo's nadirs have been under 200 many times, so I didn't think it deserved an increase (based on #1 and #2). But based on #3, his high values warrant the decrease. His nadir has been < 200 for 11 out of the last 18 cycles, and his peaks have been > 200 for all but 2 of them. Since he's been on this dose for 9 days, he should be getting a dose increase. Like, tonight. Eeesh.

I guess I'm glad I started this conversation. So who's staying up with me tonight while I keep him from dragging through the green muck! :lol: :lol: :lol:

Re: 11/28 Leo AMPS 430 looks like we got a dose increase

Good luck with the dose increase... Hope it brings good numbers for Mr. Leo. :smile:

Re: 11/28 Leo AMPS 430 +2 481 PMPS 418 dose increase

PMPS 418. Dose increase 1.5u (2.25mm) -> 1.75 u (2.62mm) using calipers and Terumo syringes.

Looking at his ss, he's gonna draggggg through the greens tonight.

Thanks Kathie!

HI Michelle and Ann - thanks for the feedback. I like that 1 mouse = 5% :lol:

Hi Mary - looks like I got more than I bargained for, musing out loud, huh?

Re: 11/28 Leo AMPS 430 +2 481 PMPS 418 dose increase

Good luck with the dose increase. Hopefully you can get Leo to flatten out soon.

Re: 11/28 Leo AMPS 430 +2 481 PMPS 418 dose increase

oh good heavens :lol: Zeus is not going to the green muck!!! little prayers for nice safe green surf with no no no bounce.
take care dear
mary and oliver

Re: 11/28 Leo AMPS 430 +2 481 PMPS 418 dose increase

Hi Lisa, good luck on the dose increase. For a while Maggie was bouncing and then lately stopped, anti-jynx. I'll have to think about what I did different. Hope little Leo does a nice surf tonight. Are you getting all setlted in and liking the new place? Hope your new neighbors are quiet.

Re: 11/28 Leo AMPS 430 +2 481 PMPS 418 dose increase

Leo, in order to stalk rodents...you must come down from those high floors! Apparently, there is a ladder of kitties...I imagine Leo is trying to help rescue Mannie and Zener is trying to help you and Mannie. Let's just get all of you kitties back down to the "good" floors! Hope this dosecrease brings you down.

Re: 11/28 Leo AMPS 430 +2 481 PMPS 418 dose increase

Good luck with the extra juice for Leo. I noticed he's doing a bit of sliding tonight.

If you find a secret for bouncing, I'd love to know. Neko's only been bouncing since February. Sigh! I too am trying to get her to spend more time in good numbers so she gets used to it.

Re: 11/28 Leo AMPS 430 +2 481 PMPS 418 +3.5 222 +5.5 97

+5.5 97 :mrgreen:

Well, the boy is running the rainbow again, channeling Mannie. I just jacked him up with 1/4c of 20% (Chicken Feast with Gravy). It's not Gravy Lovers, but about the same carb%. He's close to his nadir, but he's coming off a bounce so that is delaying onset.

Hi Wendy - thanks - the boy is sliiiiiding, you are right! I with I knew the formula.

HI Deborah - yeah, there are some little stinkers that need to stop messing around and get down, and at least one of them listened! Leo heard a little scurrying as we went to bed, but there wasn't much critter noise after that.

HI Ann - thanks. I posted over in your condo

Hi Mary - well, we got the green, now here's hoping for the surf part ! :lol:

Re: 11/28 Leo AMPS 430 +2 481 PMPS 418 +3.5 222 +5.5 97

PJ Party! Come join Neko and Rosy tonight.

Re: 11/28 Leo AMPS 430 +2 481 PMPS 418 +3.5 222 +5.5 97

Eeek! You are right. Interesting how all the most active condos right now have cute little green smilie faces next to them... :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

Re: 11/28 Leo AMPS 430 +2 481 PMPS 418 +3.5 222 +5.5 97

Surf in the green Leo! Diving is not allowed!