7/5 Zener PMPS 255;+2.5 184;+4 216 Vet report & fluids

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Anne & Zener GA

Member Since 2011
Yesterday

Good afternoon LL. Sorry to be so late in posting, we had Zener's vetty visit this morning, Liz went to the gym for the first time since being out of town, and night duty bean (that's me) had a tai chi class so things were a little hectic this morning. Zener had a good AMPS, but not very good appy and just generally feeling punk, so we were glad we had our vet visit today. Chief Inspector Crapdash found a small, but well formed, poo this morning, so no pudding poo for the past two days.

The vet visit was good. We feel really lucky to have such a wonderful vet. She thought he looked just a little more punk and that he didn't have his usual "twinkle in his eye". She suspected his problems were heat related and any little thing can throw his system balancing act out of order. They had been quite swamped with animals having heat issues. Fortunately, our monsoons have started to we aren't likely to see those 90s anymore. With his FD, possible IBD and early CKD, she was concerned about his risk for dehydration, which he was, so he got 200mL of fluids, it was amazing how quickly he perked up. She advised that with we start using fluids on a regular basis to see if this doesn't help with how he feels in general, as well as with his FD and kidneys. His drinking had increased during the heat, and he may not be able to keep up by just drinking and adding water to his food. We had hesitated to do fluids before and add "one more thing" but it is amazing how much better he is feeling already, so we will give it a go. She has us starting with three times per week, 100mL and we'll see if more or less is needed. We go back for bloodwork in another month or two to check his kidney values.

His tummy was a little bloated with gas, the poor motility he has since his FD diagnosis causes that and is likely what causes his tummy issues. Tummy massage is good for that and she gave him a thorough one. The only other med she thought might be helpful is Reglan but that caused an increase in his CH tremors before, so she didn't want to go there. We will keep him on his current regime of meds - cerenia, ondansetron, miralax, zantac and zobaline (methyl B12) twice a day - and cypro as needed. She did not think his diarrhea was anything other than heat related, and the vomiting was likely hair ball related, so at this point she didn't want to add other meds yet. Still, she took to time to discuss with all us all the different meds that we learned about from everyone here and options & side effects and when we might consider using some of those. He has not lost any weight but he was dehydrated. So, we'll see how he does with adding fluids regularly for a bit. When we got home, he went to his footstool for something to eat and he wanted it on his picnic table outside. What a guy!

We got a lesson in doing the fluids and also shared Marje's video with our vet. She was keen to be see it and to recommend it to clients. So, now we're researching the best places to get the supplies for fluids. The vet sent us home with 10 20 gauge needles, tubing and a back of fluids, so we have a little time to research where we want to get supplies. Back to watching Marje's video more. Our first time doing the fluids will be Tuesday.

We'll be monitoring his BG values even though they were on the upswing today, since we know that fluids can bring BG down.

So, that's the vet report. One more thing to add in to Zener's routine, but if it helps, we can do it!
 
Re: 7/5 Zener AMPS 164;+2 179;+4 256 Vet report & fluids

I'm glad to hear that the fluids are putting the twinkle back in Zener's eye. It really does seem like you have an incredible vet!

Marje can direct you to where she gets her squids and the paraphernalia.
 
Re: 7/5 Zener AMPS 164;+2 179;+4 256 Vet report & fluids

Thanks Sienne, it is quite amazing how much better he feels. I'll PM Marje and ask her to check our condo and ask her advice. Thanks!
 
Re: 7/5 Zener AMPS 164;+2 179;+4 256 Vet report & fluids

Gosh Anne, I feel like a moron at the moment. That sounds like a very thorough vet appt...like you didn't miss a thing.
I love my vet, and feel he goes over everything with me, but I don't remember half of what he says. :roll:

Zener actually let the vet give him a tummy massage? Wow, what a good boy.

How will you know when he needs fluids? Does he act different when he's dehydrated? Last time we were at clinic, Dr Dave gave fluids to Checkers, and he was perkier afterwards, Susan (DD) took the supplies home with her, to come and do Checks, when I want, but I don't know how to determine.

I hope Zener feels better after the procedure(s).

Monsoon, eh? Yikes!
 
Re: 7/5 Zener AMPS 164;+2 179;+4 256 Vet report & fluids

Hi Anne, me, too on what Sienne said regarding Zenner. Mags gets daily fluids for her CKD. She started on 100ml fluids, but because of her advanced CRD now gets 125ml, and I can also do more later as long as the fluids are absorbed. Marje will be a lot of help on where to buy everything. The fluids have made a big difference in Mags. I think I asked you before if you could have your Vet cloned for some of us. :-D Have a nice day. Scritches to Zener and Tillie.
 
Re: 7/5 Zener AMPS 164;+2 179;+4 256 Vet report & fluids

Hi Anne,

So glad that Zener felt better after the fluids :-D I am curious if they did blood work on Zener and that is how vet determined dehydration?

Cleo also had fluids at vets today. Her BUN was 45, so that was the reason for fluids. I didn't see any difference in how she felt after,though. Her bg dropped to 38 (Yikes) at +7 test.

Your vet does sound awesome!!
 
Re: 7/5 Zener AMPS 164;+2 179;+4 256;~8 322 Vet report & flu

Hopefully the new trick will just become part of the routine very easily.
glad he had a good report.
 
Re: 7/5 Zener AMPS 164;+2 179;+4 256;~8 322 Vet report & flu

Anne and Liz

I read back over the last few days of your condos. Sorry between work and the holiday guests, Ive been off the board.

Gus was having bouts of pudding poo and it just was not good....you could tell it was upsetting his tummy. For a while, I used slippery elm bark for that and also to prevent the tummy acid that comes with CKD. But when it stopped working for the tummy acid, I stopped it because it is advised to separate it in time from meds because it coats the intestines. I have always found it to be an excellent remedy for diarrhea and constipation due to its healing properties. After I stopped the SEB, his poo got worse so we had an U/S done. It did not show any issues but the IM specialist had us try the psyllium. It didn't do anything for Gus. Then Dr. B recommended pumpkin and Gus would not eat it...thus we started on the baby food squash with fabulous results for our old guy.

I know your vet wants to hold off on any other additional meds. I was only going to impart that a good friend of mine used budesonide for her civvie kitty with advanced IBD and it was a miracle drug for her. But, as in all things, ECID and I think Linda's information on Bear Mans IBD was invaluable.

Ok...so is your vet having you use Lactated Ringers solution (LRS) or Normosol? It is preferred for most kitties with CKD to use LRS as it has potassium which CKD kitties can often run low on eventually. Not well do...Gus has maintained his very nicely. However, for CKD cats with high calcium or any cat with liver issues or lymphoma, Normosol R is used (do not get Normosol M..it has dextrose). Normosol can sting.

I buy a case of LRS through Walgreens at $22/case of 12 with an annual pharmacy card which I believe is $20. You can check and see what it is without the pharmacy card....I'm not sure but we use our card for other things as well. If I order it one day, they have it in the next. Yes, it will take you a while to go through a case when giving 300 mls/week since each bag is 1000 ml. You can also buy BBraun DEHP free LRS bags individually at thriving pets but it is more expensive. Either way, you need the DEHP free and the NDC for the BBraun bags is 0264-7750-00. I would give that number to Walgreens or any pharmacy that you can get them from that might work better for you. You will need a prescription either way.

I also buy my IV Admin Sets from thriving pets. I gave you the link for BBraun because the IV admin set must match the bag type (e.g. BBraun). I did try the Hospira lines and bags but I didn't like them as much. And I get my Terumo UTW 21g needles from thriving pets. If Zener will not sit still, you can go with 20g but it takes me about 7 mins to get 150mls of LRS into Gus with 21g. The 20g take about half the time as the 21g...roughly.

Here is the Infrared Thermometer we got at Harbor Freight to measure the temp of the fluids in the bag after warming. We usually give them at 96 or so degrees Fahrenheit.

Can you think if anything else you would like to know that isn't covered in the video? Please let me know.

Big hugs and healing vines.
 
Re: 7/5 Zener AMPS 164;+2 179;+4 256;~8 322 Vet report & flu

It's good to hear that Zener has his twinkle back! :-D :-D The fluids aren't bad to give, just scary the first time you stick that big needle in! :shock: You really do have a wonderful vet. here's to everything getting back to normal and no more heat waves!!!
 
Re: 7/5 Zener AMPS 164;+2 179;+4 256;~8 322 Vet report & flu

Not much I can add but support and send healing vines and cyber hugs. Fluids really can make quite a difference in cats. We had to do that fairly often when I worked at the shelter. Thank goodness you have such a supportive vet.

Glad to hear it's cooling off there now. Scritches to Zener from us.
 
Re: 7/5 Zener AMPS 164;+2 179;+4 256;~8 322 Vet report & flu

I'm glad the fluids helped perk Zener up. I hope they help keep him feeling better. It sounds like you have a wonderful vet. That's great she took the time to discuss everything with you.
 
Re: 7/5 Zener AMPS 164;+2 179;+4 256;~8 322 Vet report & flu

The fluids have helped with Sidney's poo issues. We do it every other day with lots of treats. It really seems to help with with any constipation. She prob has early stage CKD..ultrasound showed kidney changes but bloodwork didn't yet.

I followed Marge's suggestions with administering and buying supplies.

Sid seems perkier after the fluids.

Paws crossed for Z-man.
 
Re: 7/5 Zener AMPS 164;+2 179;+4 256;~8 322 Vet report & flu

Sending along our support, HUGS and healing vines too. I'm glad that the fluids helped to perk Zener up.... I'll add my wish that you could clone your Vet to share with the rest of us :smile:

Kathie
 
Re: 7/5 Zener AMPS 164;+2 179;+4 256;~8 322 Vet report & flu

Hi guys,

Z Man, we are glad to hear that the fluids are working for you. Keep up the good work, buddy! Anne & Liz: I hope that all will work out well and that some cooler weather will also help your boy.

Thinking good thoughts and sending "feel better and better" vines.

Have a good weekend,

Ella & Rusty
 
Re: 7/5 Zener PMPS 255;+2.5 184 Vet report & fluids

Thanks to everyone for all your support, experiences and suggestions. We were just a little overwhelmed once again when we were at the vet today, realizing we needed to add just one more thing to Zener's care. I don't know how we could navigate any of this without the wonderful and knowledgeable people here, we are so grateful. {{{I would put the hug smiley, but for some reason I can only see the first page of smilies tonight}}}}

@Barb & Checkers - Zener lets us give him tummy massages, and he LOVES for our vet to palpate his abdomen and massage him. Go figure? The way our vet showed us to check is to pull his skin over his shoulder blades up, like when we give a shot, then let go and it should spring back into place. If there is a delay, like it just sort of slides down, he is likely dehydrated, that plus how he feels in general. There may be other ways to but those are the ones she showed us. You could post a question about that in your subject line, and people will respond. I'm sure there is a lot of knowledge on that in this group!

@Ann & Maggie - thanks for the info on fluids. We are to start with 100mL three times a week. It's possible he may not need that much but while our temps are still pretty warm, it's not a bad idea. We are scheduled for blood work in early September for a six month check on his kidney values, so we'll see then if things need to change. We will tell our vet that people here would like her cloned. She will be very pleased. She has worked really hard to learn more about FD since working with Zener. :razz:

@Cleo & Jane - no bloodwork today. We just had some recently and are scheduled for rechecks in a little over a month. The diagnosis was based on symptoms. We got a later test today than usual after reading about your big surprise at +7 post-fluids. We didn't get one but things are on their way down this cycle. :cool:

@rhiannon and shadow - thanks for sending the thought that this will become part of routine. You are so right, we just get overwhelmed from time to time. Our vet was very supportive and encouraged us that we could do it. She said fluids was much easier than testing throughout the day and night and giving insulin. ;-)

@Marje - we cannot thank you enough for all of this information and the links too. Saves us a heap of work! I was able to order the thermometer from Harbor Freight, and the IV kits and needles from thriving pets. The LRS (that's what our vet gave us), as you said, was more expensive. So, I'll call around to our pharmacies and see what we can find. Target could order the case of 12 for $23. I'm going to call our hospital pharmacy, where we get our insulin. They are sometimes cheaper and we may be able to buy a few bags at a time. We need to watch the video a few more times, and if we have more questions, we will be in touch. {{{{thank you}}}}} Ah, I did think of one but not about the fluids. What type of baby squash did you use for Gus, and do you give it to him regularly. Also, how much does he take?

@Ann & Tess - we love kitty *twinkle*! Thanks for your encouragement that we can do it! It didn't seem as bad as the cerenia injections, those sting. :shock:

@Wendy - we can never get too much support, healing vines and hugs, so thank you! We are so grateful for our wonderful vet in our small town.

@carla - the mighty Z is having a good night tonight. Our vet spent about 30 minutes with us, and also had her nurse teach us how to do the fluids. If we have trouble, we can take him in anytime and they will help us do it until we feel like we have it down. After our entire visit, plus going home with a bag of fluids and 10 needles - $45. They are so good to us. :smile:

@Tena & Curry - thanks for stopping in and telling us how Sid does with the fluids. Zener's ultrasound showed early changes and so did his bloodwork, though very early. The combination of his FD, the heat and his kidneys was likely how he got out of balance this time. We have paws crossed it helps his poo too! :-D

@Kathie - thanks for the support, our vet will be pleased to know how wonderful you all think she is too! :-D

@Ella - thanks for stopping in with vines and encouragement, it helps the beans so much! :razz:

Big hugs to all our our LL friends and family. We keep on doing the dance, and we are so grateful to you all for the love and support. Zener is outside bug hunting at the moment but he says thanks too! Hope everyone has a calm and drama free Friday evening.
 
Re: 7/5 Zener PMPS 255;+2.5 184 Vet report & fluids

Hi All - sorry to miss all of this, and for the late post. Good luck with everything. I hope the fluid therapy will help Zener. Sounds like it will. :-D
 
Re: 7/5 Zener PMPS 255;+2.5 184 Vet report & fluids

Anne,
You've already gotten lots of great advice on fluids. I wish Marje had done that video a year or so earlier because it really would have helped me with giving them to Bob about 40 times! The only thing I'll add is whether you go with the 21g or the 20g needles, go for the "Ultra-Thin Walled" ones if at all possible. The inside diameters aren't affected, but the outside diameters are smaller, so they make a smaller hole, and Zener will appreciate and love you for that. ;-)
The thing that really got me when I got all set up for Bob's first treatment was the size of the needle. I understood completely why people refer to them as "harpoons". But Bob was a trooper through it all. I think it bothered me a lot more than it bothered him. The only difficult part was getting him to hold still for 5 minutes. He hopped away once, and it freaked me out! It didn't help that the fluids continued to spill all over the floor as I tried to chase him down. :lol:
Oh, Bob didn't much like it when I called him a "humpty-backed camel" after the fluids either, so try to refrain from saying that. ;-)
 
Re: 7/5 Zener PMPS 255;+2.5 184 Vet report & fluids

You're welcome and welcome home Liz. I hope you had a blast and a wonderful birthday!

I use Beechnut Homestyle stage 2 baby food squash. Once a day, I put a heaping tsp in a helping of food and mix well.

Gus loves it. :-D
 
Re: 7/5 Zener PMPS 255;+2.5 184 Vet report & fluids

Carl & Bob said:
You've already gotten lots of great advice on fluids. I wish Marje had done that video a year or so earlier because it really would have helped me with giving them to Bob about 40 times! The only thing I'll add is whether you go with the 21g or the 20g needles, go for the "Ultra-Thin Walled" ones if at all possible. The inside diameters aren't affected, but the outside diameters are smaller, so they make a smaller hole, and Zener will appreciate and love you for that. ;-)
Thanks for that Bob. I ordered the 20g with the ultra thin walls. I am sure Zener will appreciate a smaller harpoon! ;-)


Carl & Bob said:
The thing that really got me when I got all set up for Bob's first treatment was the size of the needle. I understood completely why people refer to them as "harpoons". But Bob was a trooper through it all. I think it bothered me a lot more than it bothered him. The only difficult part was getting him to hold still for 5 minutes. He hopped away once, and it freaked me out! It didn't help that the fluids continued to spill all over the floor as I tried to chase him down. :lol:
Oh, Bob didn't much like it when I called him a "humpty-backed camel" after the fluids either, so try to refrain from saying that. ;-)
:lol: :lol: BWAHAAHAHAH :lol: :lol: Oh, I love this story, and thank you for the much needed guffaw! The image of fluids spilling and cat chasing was too much. And a special thanks on what NOT to call the extra bump! :lol:
 
Re: 7/5 Zener PMPS 255;+2.5 184 Vet report & fluids

Marje and Gracie said:
I use Beechnut Homestyle stage 2 baby food squash. Once a day, I put a heaping tsp in a helping of food and mix well.

Gus loves it. :-D
Just what we needed to know, and thanks for the Gus seal of approval! ;-)
 
Re: 7/5 Zener PMPS 255;+2.5 184 Vet report & fluids

Gussie says you are welcome. And his fan club expanded to Rich of Rich/Rex who got to meet the inimitable Gussie in the fur!
 
@Marje - Gus the Gentleman cat has fan club members in Flagstaff too! He is a You Tube star. :-D

Looks like no BG drama rama tonight, so ni ni LL.
 
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