11/05 - Small Kitty - AMPS 536.40 - PMPS 577.80 +2 608.40 +4 489.60

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Photorecon

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Hello dear Lantus Experts ,


This is my first post in the Lantus Forum, I was greatly recommended by members of the Feline Health main forum to come here for opinions on dosing. The first vet who diagnosed Small Kitty seemed to know a lot about billing but not that much about feline diabetes. I've been testing since day one with different kind of meter and very different results. Current setup is kind of accurate, it corroborate Vet lab test results with a margin of error of about 18mg/dl or less.


If you take a look at Spread sheet you'll probably understand that I was very concerned about my cat's health, and I proved to be right. After several phone calls informing the Vet of the situation I was not getting any call backs, just being told by technicians not to worry that early on it's normal to have high numbers.

Tired of it, I went to another vet who I could get in touch with. This Vet knew just a bit more to make me increase

the dose from 1.0 / 0.5 for two months to 1.0 / 1.0 units. One week later it was just too little to late, the cat was in full scale DKA, we increased unit to 1.0 / 1.5. I spend 72h nonstop taking care of Small Kitty to save him, feeding him by syringe,

SubQ liquid injection every 8h.. See (Never give up !!<http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/posts/1668132/>). I finally saved him, by the end of the third day of ER interventions, ketone was
gone and he was eating and drinking again.



Vet didn't assumed HE was the author of this disaster but he was my only reference. The new Vet knew even less about diabetes, he recommended me dry diabetic cat food and told me it was because of scale on the teethes, to give him 400$ to fix it.


So here we are, after 1.5U twice for a week we are now at 2 units 2X/day since almost another week getting scary numbers. The answer of the vet technician is that it's because the cat is starting to eat again but I'm not convinced. Every time I go to this place I come out with a 200$ bill minimum. Simple Ketone test is 100$.

The only difference since the beginning of the new dose is that he's eating A LOT, always asking for more food. He's eating the food (Fancy Feast Classic + Purina MD) I put withing 2 mins and later he'll be asking for more.

Any Idea on what I should do. Lab test results are in my signature, I was not able to understand what was representing what, brand new to this business but my signature has the lab test results I have.

Spread sheet
Lab tests results

Thanks you

Sébastien
 
Here's your last thread in Health too.....just so people can go back and see what's been going on

What is your daily schedule like Sébastien? Do you work full time during the week? If you do, what time do you shoot in the morning and what time do you HAVE to leave for work? When do you get home?

I ask because it's really important that we try to get some mid-cycle tests on the AM cycle every day (if possible)

I wouldn't worry so much about how much Small Kitty is eating right now. As long as her numbers are high, she's going to eat more than if she was better controlled.

It looks like it's probably time to increase her, but without a few more tests, I'd like to wait for some other opinions too
 
Yeah, very pertinent question, for what I've read on the main page of the site (did that today).

I must leave to work at 07.00h and arrive back home at 17.30h. What I USED since very recnelty
was to feed at 06.30h, let them eat (no more then 10min) then test and shoot at 07.00h. to leave
at 07.10, max. Evening USED to be no test and sleep at around 19.00h, 20.00h MAX.

Since DKA, a week ago I changed the routine a little :

06.30h Test then feed
07.00h : shoot and leave

17.30h : Test and feed
19.00h : Shoot.

20.00 : +2 testing.

Must go to bed then.

During the weekend there is one day where I can do full scale curve, Saterday.
On Sunday I most leave for my second job for 4h. during the afternoon then
back to the same thing then above.

So the earliest I can test is 17.30h and the latest is preferably before 21.00h as I
need all sleep time I can. I also have my own medical condition, requiring a big
minimum of 8h. of sleeping time.

I used to be afraid of test timing before or after meal time but now I think the
the feed / shoot timing is even more complex..

Hope GL will go down or I can gather some urine to see if there is ketone traces.

Thanks in advance for any help / advise. ANYTHING will be better then my vet :)

* BTW, it's HE, Small Kitty and Big Brother are both males
 
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Welcome, Sébastien and Small Kitty (he is very handsome, by the way)!

You should be able to find test strip to test for ketones in your kitty's urine at your local pharmacy (the same ones as used for humans). One name that comes to mind is Ketostix, but there may be others in your area. With DKA in his history, it's very important to test for them regularly, as they can go from none to DKA very quickly.

With your medical condition, is it impossible for you to set an alarm in the middle of the night, get up and test, then go back to sleep? We have others here with a similar issue, but I just wanted to clarify if that is a possibility or not for you.

Do you leave any food out for Small Kitty while you are at work? You might want to get a timed feeder so you can control how much food is available and when. While the numbers are really high, cats usually eat more, as they are basically starving. As the numbers come down, the appetite should become more normal.
 
OK...Just an idea (since I don't know how well it would work for you)....and NOBODY likes it, but

Is there any possibility you could get up earlier in the morning? Like at 5:30am? You can test/feed/shoot all within 3-5 minutes. You don't have to wait until they've eaten food on Lantus (as long as they are eating fairly normally)

That way you could get a quick test right before you had to leave in the morning at 7:10 or so. (and if you can, you could go back to sleep for a little while too)

Then when you get home at 5:30pm (17:30) you would test/feed/shoot again and be able to get several tests in on the PM cycle before you had to go to bed.
 
Welcome, Sébastien and Small Kitty (he is very handsome, by the way)!

You should be able to find test strip to test for ketones in your kitty's urine at your local pharmacy (the same ones as used for humans). One name that comes to mind is Ketostix, but there may be others in your area. With DKA in his history, it's very important to test for them regularly, as they can go from none to DKA very quickly.

With your medical condition, is it impossible for you to set an alarm in the middle of the night, get up and test, then go back to sleep? We have others here with a similar issue, but I just wanted to clarify if that is a possibility or not for you.

Do you leave any food out for Small Kitty while you are at work? You might want to get a timed feeder so you can control how much food is available and when. While the numbers are really high, cats usually eat more, as they are basically starving. As the numbers come down, the appetite should become more normal.


Thanks for the reply Tricia and Christine,

I do have ketone sticks, the problem is that I've not been able to get urine by bladder stimulation but once and
it's by his own that he did the job there after. I just woke up because of the high numbers to test and GL is dropping
489.60. Also, no way for sure if it's from Big Brother or Small Kitty, but there was urine that I could test and it was negative.
I was at bed and could not know witch cat it was from but I've 50% chance.

In regards of your question for waking up during the night it's possible but I'll one day pay the price. I'm epileptic
and who knows why I was having ''buzz'' prelude to seizure today. Probably a left over from my 3 days sleeping very little.
I should be sleeping at the moment but this is stressing me up + while waked up adding new data while you guys show
interest in the case.

Thanks for your interest, I'll reply tomorrow as I should really be sleeping now.

* Do I edit the title of the post all over tomorrow with new date or add a +12... ???
 
In the morning, if you have time to post before you leave, start a new post with the date/cats name and AMPS number

If you don't have time until you get home tomorrow evening, post then and start a new post with tomorrow's AMPS number, PMPS (and any other tests you may be able to get)

There's no reason you have to manually express the urine....Here are some Urine Testing Tips that may work for you.

It's just important to be testing Small Kitty's urine (most cats have a very strict routine....if you can figure out his, it will make it easier)

Most seem to eat and then "use the facilities"
 
Hi Sebastien! Welcome to the group.

One trick that people use to test for ketones is to have an alternate box that has something non-absorbent in it. Some people use aquarium gravel, for example. When the kitty pees, you can tip the box to have a puddle of urine at one end. It's great that you're making an effort to test regularly for ketones. That's especially important when you're kitty just had DKA recently.

Has anyone explained bouncing to you yet? Looking at May 8, see how SK started the day at 274, then his blood sugar went straight up all day long? That's a clear signal that he is bouncing. No regular curve during the 12 hour cycle - a "regular" cycle might look something like a smile on a graph. When you see a straight line up for the entire 12 hours, that's likely the start of a bounce. He peaked at 608 that evening, then I'm guessing he stayed high that pm cycle, and the day cycle of May 9th.

Then look at the pmps for May 9th - 241. That yellow really stands out. I'd guess he was clearing the bounce that evening.

There's a description of a bounce on the second post in this thread. It is a very normal thing that occurs with diabetic cats. So this is very normal for Small Kitty at this phase. Bouncing lessens and may stop - the more that SK has his blood sugar in normal range, the more his body will "remember" that it is normal and hopefully, it will stop reacting to lower numbers by bouncing.

You're going to have a balancing act with SK's needs and your own health needs. You're not the only person here who has a chronic illness that requires tending. You just have to figure out what works for you in your life. If you don't have an autofeeder, I would get one. They can be really helpful for dispensing food when you are at work or asleep. Train Small Kitty to eat from it and you'll be glad!

This thread "Where Can I Find?" may be helpful to you as you try to find information on this site. It's a bit of an index to information on this site, including good discussions on a variety of topics. You may want to bookmark it. There is a thread in there under "Food is important:" that discusses auto feeders. They are also discussed in the yellow-boxed sticky at the top of the Lantus/Lev page on working full time while following the Tight Reg Protocol.

Glad to have you here! Keep asking questions and we'll do our best to help you.
 
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