Smiffy's numbers lower August/September

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Marlena said:
It could have been due to her not eating much earlier on.
you have given her that dose before and she was fine, as long as you check her, feed her (no honey as yet), test her she should be ok.
Lets see what happens next.
I'm here to hear you.
Fingers crossed.
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@JanetNJ

She is now 6 (108) at +4.5

I am not sure that I should have given her a one unit this morning if she didn't eat much.

I don't think I want to go back to the old rule of not to shoot her if she is 10 (180) or below if her pancreas is beginning to work?
 
Looby & Smiify said:
@JanetNJ

She is now 6 (108) at +4.5

I am not sure that I should have given her a one unit this morning if she didn't eat much.

I don't think I want to go back to the old rule of not to shoot her if she is 10 (180) or below if her pancreas is beginning to work?
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1 unit was perfect today. It got her where you want her to be. You want her in those lower numbers (under 150)!so her pancreas can heal.
 
Looby & Smiify said:
What do I do then? Carry on giving her one unit in the morning and risking half a unit at night?

@JanetNJ @Alexi @MrWorfMen's Mom

What do you think? I took a risk last night giving her a half unit on a reading of just 8.8 (159) .... or shall I stick to the general rule of not shooting below 10?
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The half unit at night worked out fine. Now that you know what she does at that level uou can relax a bit. She wasn't even close to too low. Hopefully next time it will bring her even a little lower. Let's cross that bridge when you get there.
 
Smiffy is having a very nice cycle today.:) It will be interesting to see where she goes from here. As others have said, the 4.7 and 6.0 are both really nice numbers. Looby, you could test Smiffy at +3 at night to see how fast and how much she is dropping. That gives you the opportunity to intervene with more food to slow down any fast drops.
Caninsulin can have 2 drops, one early in the cycle that you see at +3/4 usually and then another smaller drop later in the cycle which is why getting a +8 would give you a bit more info. It quite possible Smiffy may be up a bit at PMPS tonight given the lower numbers today. Nothing to worry about.....just a little bounce from hitting numbers she is not used to yet.
 
Looby,

85 is an awesome number for her nadir point. I know this is incredible scary when you first get down into these ranges..But honey, this is what all the hard work has been for to get to these numbers....This is where she needs to be to let her pancreas rest and heal. Now granted my Quillan is on Levemir so I dose him differently than you can with Canninsulin. I can shoot much lower preshot numbers than you can with his full dose because of just how a depot insulin works as opposed to how Smiffy's insulin works. But you also have the advantage you can adjust your dose on the fly, I can't Quillan's insulin does best with consistent dosing 12/12.

But that said so you understand I'm showing you this not for you to copy the way I shoot and the numbers that it is safe for me to shoot at, but simply to show you what a regulated diabetic looks like on a spreadsheet.....Quillan snapped into regulation on 9/1/16 so starting there and continuing his numbers represent where you want Smiffy to get to, and all those numbers on his SS from the beginning of September are perfectly safe where they happen for his particular pattern.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1zkw6Ghi3t0VbN7hMExgSq7tOqaTMO1yBvKi4Zvz-VaE/edit?usp=sharing

Mel and The Fur Gang
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1zkw6Ghi3t0VbN7hMExgSq7tOqaTMO1yBvKi4Zvz-VaE/edit?usp=sharing
 
@Marlena

I have lost my Skype account for some reason!!!

@JanetNJ @MrWorfMen's Mom @KarenRamboConan

So I given that Smiffy eats, I am going to shoot Smiffy with one unit if she is 12 (216) or over at her AMPS, only half a unit if below 12 at her AMPS (as she seems to drop a lot during the day).

For her PMPS also given that Smiffy eats, I am going to give Smiffy no shot if she is around 8 (144) but wait for the food to settle in and then test her again and if she is nearer 10 (180) to give her half a unit but test her at +3 to makes sure she is not too low.

Or do I now shoot if she is 10 or below?
 
MommaOfMuse said:
Looby,

85 is an awesome number for her nadir point. I know this is incredible scary when you first get down into these ranges..But honey, this is what all the hard work has been for to get to these numbers....This is where she needs to be to let her pancreas rest and heal. Now granted my Quillan is on Levemir so I dose him differently than you can with Canninsulin. I can shoot much lower preshot numbers than you can with his full dose because of just how a depot insulin works as opposed to how Smiffy's insulin works. But you also have the advantage you can adjust your dose on the fly, I can't Quillan's insulin does best with consistent dosing 12/12.

But that said so you understand I'm showing you this not for you to copy the way I shoot and the numbers that it is safe for me to shoot at, but simply to show you what a regulated diabetic looks like on a spreadsheet.....Quillan snapped into regulation on 9/1/16 so starting there and continuing his numbers represent where you want Smiffy to get to, and all those numbers on his SS from the beginning of September are perfectly safe where they happen for his particular pattern.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1zkw6Ghi3t0VbN7hMExgSq7tOqaTMO1yBvKi4Zvz-VaE/edit?usp=sharing

Mel and The Fur Gang
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Thank you for that (: I have completely forgotten who you are on Facebook ... mind gone blank!
 
I agree with your am dose. 1 unit when 12 (216) or higher, half unit when below it. (I'd probably do 1 u at 200 and over personally). I would do the same for pm. No reason to not give a half unit when she's at 8 (144), but I wouldn't shoot much lower than that unless you start using needles to give slightly less than half or you are awake to test... She didn't go too low last night when she started at 8, so I'd shoot esp if you can test at +4 and she's had some food to eat.
 
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@Marlena @JanetNJ I just heard from Looby on Facebook. Her computer is down so she can't access the board or much of anything, including Smiffy's spreadsheet at the moment. She asked me to let you know that Smiffy's +8 was 7.5 and her pre-shot is 6.9 so she is not giving a shot at all tonight. She says she will go with 0.5u if Smiffy is under 12 tomorrow morning and 1.0u if she is above 12.
 
manxcat419 said:
@Marlena @JanetNJ I just heard from Looby on Facebook. Her computer is down so she can't access the board or much of anything, including Smiffy's spreadsheet at the moment. She asked me to let you know that Smiffy's +8 was 7.5 and her pre-shot is 6.9 so she is not giving a shot at all tonight. She says she will go with 0.5u if Smiffy is under 12 tomorrow morning and 1.0u if she is above 12.
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Sounds good
 
JanetNJ said:
85 is a good number. As she gets more regulated the same dose will gradually bring the numbers into a better range. This is what you WANT to see. Don't let the green scare you. Especially since you are using a human meter. You still have a good cushion to go lower.
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[Emphasis mine]

For the benefit of any members treating their cat with Caninsulin and reading this thread, I disagree strongly with the above because:

1. Caninsulin action is typically quite harsh in cats and it's therefore safer not to aim for nadirs at the lower end of the normal range. (Lantus and Levemir would be better treatment options if the objective of treatment is to tightly regulate the cat.)

2. With a cat whose eating is unpredictable it is even more important to leave a wider nadir safety buffer.

If my cat were being treated with Caninsulin and was getting nadirs in the 80s (mg/dL, human meter) I would be looking to reduce the dose.


Mogs
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Critter Mom said:
[Emphasis mine]

For the benefit of any members treating their cat with Caninsulin and reading this thread, I disagree strongly with the above because:

1. Caninsulin action is typically quite harsh in cats and it's therefore safer not to aim for nadirs at the lower end of the normal range. (Lantus and Levemir would be better treatment options if the objective of treatment is to tightly regulate the cat.)

2. With a cat whose eating is unpredictable it is even more important to leave a wider nadir safety buffer.

If my cat were being treated with Caninsulin and was getting nadirs in the 80s (mg/dL, human meter) I would be looking to reduce the dose.


Mogs
.
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She was already at the hour where her cat was typically at her lowest. (And in fact it did rise the following hour to over 100). However at 85 If it were to drop just a tad more in the next hour before rising there was still some wiggle room, esp being that she was using a human meter and testing. I wasn't meaning that she should dose higher and try to get a lower number next time, but I do think where she was was a good number and a step in the right direction.
 
Don't wo
Critter Mom said:
[Emphasis mine]

For the benefit of any members treating their cat with Caninsulin and reading this thread, I disagree strongly with the above because:

1. Caninsulin action is typically quite harsh in cats and it's therefore safer not to aim for nadirs at the lower end of the normal range. (Lantus and Levemir would be better treatment options if the objective of treatment is to tightly regulate the cat.)

2. With a cat whose eating is unpredictable it is even more important to leave a wider nadir safety buffer.

If my cat were being treated with Caninsulin and was getting nadirs in the 80s (mg/dL, human meter) I would be looking to reduce the dose.
Mogs
.
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Dont worry @Critter Mom I am not going to dose aggressively .....if you look further down I have said that I will not shoot lower than 10 (180) and given her low Nadir during the day cycle today I am only going to give Smiffy half a unit if she is around 12 (216) at her AMPS tomorrow .

My computer is down at the moment so I am already very stressed. This is from my iPad.

Thanks for your concern for Smiffy
 
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Smiffy has been doing so well. I know how scary it is when they start giving those green numbers. I have been losing more sleep then I like lately when Callie gives me those green numbers and I want to kick myself for giving a half dose instead of skiping it. At least, she has never had any hypo symptoms. So if in doubt, don't shoot.
 
Herta & Honey said:
Lucille @Looby & Smiify , yes you have as you said earlier "found me" on FDMB.
So I have stepped out of lurking to say hello!

Herta
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She is only 7.9 (144) this morning @Marlena @Alexi @MrWorfMen's Mom ..... So no insulin this morning either! She coughed up a fur all this morning and has eaten ....... is this the beginning of remission or is there something else wrong?!

Thank you for your comments and support Herta

@Louise1989
 
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Looby, I think we can be very happy with what's happening with Smiffy.
I do hope that it is the beginning of remission, she runs lower and lower so this is what you want to see.
But this is only my opinion and others might look at it in a different way.
I keep my fingers crossed for continued success.:):):):cat::cat::cat:
 
@Marlena

Smiffy is now 9.4 (170) 7 hours after l would have shot her this morning.

If she is still under 10 (180) at her PMPS time then I won't shoot her but at what reading do I dare give her half a unit?

@Critter Mom you would have a very helpful opinion on this?
 
Lucille since you cannot update Smiify's chart it would be helpful perhaps if you could list your day's test results in a single post.
That way people who you've asked for help will be able to see all the information together without having to go back through a series of posts.
You could add also relevant information such as whether she is eating normally, et cetera.

It is good to make things clear and easy for people who are helping us. ;)
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Herta & Honey said:
Lucille since you cannot update Smiify's chart it would be helpful perhaps if you could list your day's test results in a single post.
That way people who you've asked for help will be able to see all the information together without having to go back through a series of posts.
You could add also relevant information such as whether she is eating normally, et cetera.

It is good to make things clear and easy for people who are helping us. ;)
.
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Ok that's good advice will try to do that later .....
 
Herta & Honey said:
If you want people to help you (as you say you do) 'trying' will not be sufficient.
You will need to actually do it.
.

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Sorry! The only reason I said try is because my main cimputer is down and I am not used to the iPad ..... DH is away on business and I am confined to the house and a main light bulb has gone which I can't change so I am also in the dark! Everything has happened at once here!

AMPS. 7.9 (144) no shot and ate after coughing up fur ball
+3 6.9 (125)
+4 7.5 (135) after eating wet lunch
+7 9.4
+11 9.8 (176)
PMPS 9.6 (173) so numbers falling slightly

Tight call but as she has not eaten much supper after her PMPS time I
And she is borderline below 10 (180) l Am think inking no shot?

Sorry this takes for ever on the iPad and I can't access her spreadsheet until my computer is fixed. Ignore the +3 below as I can't delete it for some reason!

@Marlena @MrWorfMen's Mom @Squalliesmom @Louise1989
+3.
 
Looby & Smiify said:
Sorry! The only reason I said try is because my main cimputer is down and I am not used to the iPad ..... DH is away on business and I am confined to the house and a main light bulb has gone which I can't change so I am also in the dark! Everything has happened at once here!

AMPS. 7.9 (144) no shot and ate after coughing up fur ball
+3 6.9 (125)
+4 7.5 (135) after eating wet lunch
+7 9.4
+11 9.8 (176)
PMPS 9.6 (173) so numbers falling slightly

Tight call but as she has not eaten much supper after her PMPS time I
And she is borderline below 10 (180) l Am think inking no shot?

Sorry this takes for ever on the iPad and I can't access her spreadsheet until my computer is fixed. Ignore the +3 below as I can't delete it for some reason!

@Marlena @MrWorfMen's Mom @Squalliesmom @Louise1989
+3.
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I'd do a half but a no shoot would be ok. Just might be a bit higher tomorrow.
 
Looby & Smiify said:
AMPS. 7.9 (144) no shot and ate after coughing up fur ball
+3 6.9 (125)
+4 7.5 (135) after eating wet lunch
+7 9.4
+11 9.8 (176)
PMPS 9.6 (173) so numbers falling slightly
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Your '+' numbers are incorrect, I think, because Smiify had no insulin this morning? (Is that not so?)
Please be clear so that people have the accurate information.

Do you understand that it is only 'AMPS' if you actually give insulin? Without insulin I think the correct term is 'AMBG' (morning blood glucose).

Personally, I would not give insulin unless it was clear that the blood glucose is rising. In your case I do not think that is clear. I would suggest that you wait a while and test again before deciding what course of action to take.
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Herta & Honey said:
Your '+' numbers are incorrect, I think, because Smiify had no insulin this morning? (Is that not so?)
Please be clear so that people have the accurate information.

Do you understand that it is only 'AMPS' if you actually give insulin? Without insulin I think the correct term is 'AMBG' (morning blood glucose).

Personally, I would not give insulin unless it was clear that the blood glucose is rising. In your case I do not think that is clear. I would suggest that you wait a while and test again before deciding what course of action to take.
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Oh I was not aware of that acronym thank you! At least you gathered what I meant that's why I said and no shot ....

Thanks I agree ...... will keep taking data ..... I'm not going to risk dangerous low numbers ...... She was in the 9s last night then gave me a 6.9 this morning so will wait and see
 
Personally, I would use AMBG for a days where you haven't given a shot (and PMBG for times where you don't give an evening shot) but keep the + numbers as they are - it's less confusing for you than having to work with things like +21 on days like this. And using something like AMBG +3 does still explain exactly when you took the readings. It's a fairly small technicality when you've already stated that you didn't give a shot, but maybe easier for anyone who hasn't had time to read the whole thread to follow.

I would agree with skipping tonight's shot. Smiffy is level, if not dropping slightly even after skipping this morning's shot, so I wouldn't feel comfortable giving insulin tonight.
 
@Herta & Honey @Marlena @JanetNJ @MrWorfMen's Mom @MommaOfMuse

Smiffy has gone down to 7.5 at +6 after her PMBG of 9.8 (180) so good call not to give a shot .... she didn't eat much .....

Really looks like her little pancreas has woken up!

It's really difficult to get the reply button to work with my iPad for some reason .... Can't wait to get my computer back and update Smiffys spreadsheet and see all these blues and send a copy to her Vet who will be astonished!
 
This is very encouraging to see!
If she can recover thus far then she can almost certainly recover further.

You know what I am going to say next.....;)

Diet change is the key that could set Smiify free from insulin dependency.
As I said on FB, a good thing about the days when you don't give insulin is that you don't have the pressure of trying to get some food into her just so that you can give the shot. Without that constraint you can be more flexible with feeding times. You can let her get a little more hungry, and she may be more likely to eat the foods that you want and need her to eat.

I understand that it is not easy. But there is a vast difference between 'not easy' and 'not possible'.
My previous diabetic came to me 'addicted' to the dry food. She got to like a little wet food but wanted the dry. I took the advice of someone and removed the dry food from the house (apart from a very small amount that I kept well wrapped in the freezer for emergencies). It seemed to help a lot when she could no longer smell that it was there. It is rather like us trying to be 'good' and eating salads when we can smell that someone is having fish and chips. Not easy. ;)
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Tell me .... Just because she is now in her third day with no insulin does not mean third day of remission does it? She has to be 14 days numbers 4 to 7 doesn't she? That is 72 to 126?
 
Herta & Honey said:
Correct. Your current numbers are just a little above the normal blood glucose range for a cat.
The approximate range for normal numbers (using human glucose meter) is about 2.7 to 7.2.
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Thanks ...... I had two sets of figures and those were the other ones.

I will have my proper computer back tomorrow so I ca update Smiffys spreadsheet and communicate better ...

I take your point about her food .....almost got her of the m/D and just on the Lowe carb biscuits .....she wouldn't eat wet this morning but has eaten a bit just now ...

Appologies for typos ...getting used to iPad!!!
 
Come on Smiffy - those numbers are getting better and better. And with no insulin too! Eat up your wet food like a good girl - and your lower carb biscuits - then you might not need your insulin at all any more! :)
 
Looby, now is the time to try to make Smiffy eat only wet low carb food. If she is off insulin you don't need to worry too much when she does not eat a lot or misses her meal - she won't go hypo! As long as she eats some protein in 12 - 24 hours she should be safe. But I'm sure you will post if you encounter any problems like that - we all know that cats should not fast.
There is a fantastic article about finicky eaters - they prefer their food when there is a good balance of nutrients so they can meet their needs and they instinctively go for that kind of food and guess what? They need quite a bit of fat in their meal.
www.healthypets.mercola.com/when your cat stiffs you on this, here's what she's really saying and another one from the same website about urinary health (why you shouldn't feed your cat dry kibble) this extract rivals antibiotics in preventing urinary tract infections.
Good luck, I hope Smiffy is going to cooperate!
 
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