? Does anyone dose their cat once a day?

Status
Not open for further replies.
jamies

jamies

Member
I posted the other day and my cat went to the vet today and they are still saying to dose him once a day.
It is vesulin and 3 units but now he said 4
 
From the Vetsulin website:

"For cats, the initial recommended dose of Vetsulin® (porcine insulin zinc suspension) is 1 to 2 IU per injection. Cats should be started on twice-daily injections of Vetsulin at 12-hour intervals. Note that in cats, Vetsulin dosing is calculated on a per animal basis; in contrast, initial dosing for dogs is based on body weight."

http://www.vetsulin.com/vet/Cats_DosingOverview.aspx


Once a day dosing is what is used with dogs. not kitties.

Starting dose
In dogs, the initial recommended Vetsulin dose is 0.5 IU insulin/kg of body weight. This dose should be given once daily concurrently with or right after a meal.

http://www.vetsulin.com/vet/DosingOverview.aspx
 
jamies said:
I posted the other day and my cat went to the vet today and they are still saying to dose him once a day.
It is vesulin and 3 units but now he said 4
Click to expand...
Posting here is the best way to get more attention on your question. I hope someone who answers can help you. Would you mind telling us why the dose was raised?
 
I understand your confusion... the vet says one thing but we are all saying otherwise. I personally have never heard of a kitty being started out on your insulin on one dose a day. The simple reason is that Vetsulin is a type of insulin that is typically used up quite fast, so two doses a day is usual to allow the kitty to spend more of the day in better numbers.

I think we are also all saying here that 1u twice a day is the acknowledged starting point. You increase the dose IF NECESSARY. If you start off with 3 and now 4 units you are possibly giving too much insulin too soon, and it may not be good for your kitty.

I really am sorry to say this as I don't want to upset you, but at this point I would be ringing round other vets in your area to ask them what their experience is of treating FD and what they would recommend as a starting dose. Can you do that? You have nothing to lose by just making a couple of phone calls and it might help you to decide whose advice you want to take - ours or your current vet's.

Best of luck - we know it's hard to doubt a vet's advice but in this instance it really would be good to get other opinions.
 
They will not help. Went through this the other day, You have to go in, only way they will help
 
jamies said:
I cannot just go to another vet this week. It is a holiday week
Click to expand...
If you're referring to American Thanksgiving, that's this Thursday isn't it? Other vet offices would be open today and tomorrow and you could simply phone and ask the question on an information-seeking basis. I don't see why they would refuse to answer. Then you'd at least have an idea of what other vets do and how it stacks up against what we've said.

I see you've answered this already. If we seem to be pressuring you to question the once a day dosing, especially at a high dose like 4 u in one shot, it's because we're very concerned for your kitty. You were given a good reference from the Vetsulin site that shows how differently cats and dogs are dosed and how a cat should be started on this insulin.

I'm very glad you came back here to ask about once a day dosing again after you saw your vet today. It tells me that you're concerned for your kitty's health.
 
jamies said:
They will not help. Went through this the other day, You have to go in, only way they will help
Click to expand...
OK so in that case you have to make a decision. Put your trust in your vet OR think about what we are saying for the safety of your kitty. Do you have the meter now? If so you could start dosing 1u twice a day for a few days and get some data (BG numbers) at regular intervals and post here for us to comment on. If you are prepared to do this we can talk you through how to post that info.
 
Diana&Tom said:
OK so in that case you have to make a decision. Put your trust in your vet OR think about what we are saying for the safety of your kitty. Do you have the meter now? If so you could start dosing 1u twice a day for a few days and get some data (BG numbers) at regular intervals and post here for us to comment on. If you are prepared to do this we can talk you through how to post that info.
Click to expand...
Please try this for your kitty's sake. You have nothing to lose and a few more days at higher BG numbers is not as dangerous as one dose that's too high and causes hypoglycemia. That can be an emergency situation - and I'm not being dramatic when I say that.
 
Kris & Teasel said:
Please try this for your kitty's sake. You have nothing to lose and a few more days at higher BG numbers is not as dangerous as one dose that's too high and causes hypoglycemia. That can be an emergency situation - and I'm not being dramatic when I say that.
Click to expand...
Exactly. We don't want to scare you but surely it is better to be safe than sorry.
 
I would hate for you to feel bullied by the group here that has responded. That isn't our intention at all. We really want to help you start your kitty off as safely as possible and the scenario you've described of owner receiving conflicting advice from their vet is familiar to us. Ultimately, you have to decide. We're here to help if you want it.
 
I posted the proper dosing for vetsulin for kitties above. This is directly from the Vetsulin website, so it is not just a stranger on the internet telling you that your vet is wrong....it is the actual Vetsulin website who MAKE the product. If your vet is not following the established guidelines then I would not follow his instructions and potentially end up causing your kitty to hypo. It would be better to not give insulin for a few days until you find a vet who actually knows the correct procedures than to risk yout kitty going into a serious hypo and either ending up with a very expensive stay at the ER or worse.

Sorry to be so blunt, but we have seen people who followed incorrect dosing and had disastrous results'
 
I agree with what Mary Ann says. Certainly nobody is bullying you, we are trying to give you the facts so you can make a decision.
 
I wish I had consulted and really listened to this board before going blindly along with my vet. My initial dose on caninsulin was 5 units in the morning and 5 at night. I was struggling to get blood from Sky and trusted my vet. She went hypo within 5 days of being on this dose. Having a hypo cat within the first week of treatment was extremely scary - I thought she was going to die, and that is no exageration. I was lucky, she pulled through and very quickly - on the dose she was on, and knowing now how she reacts to caninsulin, I have no idea how she survived the 5 days on the dose she was on. It was an expensive lesson - emergency trip to vets, bloods, treatment not to mention sleepless night and panic.

When I saw an emergency vet they said my starting dose was way to high and should not have started at that level. Reading the caninsulin instructions, she should not have been on that level. They then wanted to reduce her to 3 units morning and night but still didn't want me to test her - I refused and put her at 2. That was still too much for her. She is currently on 1 unit twice a day (and even that I have had to change).

I still want to trust my vet but the experience and knowledge on this board is so hard to replicate with a vet. They have a wide knowledge on a lot of subjects but sometimes not a deep knowledge. Personally, if you aren't sure what to do - ring the manufacturer of Vetsulin, I'm sure they will have a helpline. Ask them - http://www.vetsulin.com/vet/ContactUs.aspx. Don't get me wrong, your cat may need the dose you have been given but as someone else has said it is better to start low and build up. Hypo is not pleasant.
 
I am really sorry you're feeling stressed about this. Even good vet's some times don't know how to treat diabetes in cats.

My vet is a diabetic himself and all the advice he gives me is "increase the dose".... If I had done that, my cat would have been hypo the other night.

Honestly, if your cat is having high numbers, 2U twice a day would be better. The insulin does not stay 24 hours in felines.
 
jamies said:
I posted the other day and my cat went to the vet today and they are still saying to dose him once a day.
It is vesulin and 3 units but now he said 4
Click to expand...
Jamie,

My cat was on Vetsulin, and 3U was too much for him. You should also dose twice a day, every 12 hrs, with food. Vetsulin is a shorter acting insulin--- it will also drop your kitties BG pretty quickly, within 3-4 hours of shot time was our experience. I also left food out during the day, as Vetsulin works fast and they need to have a little more food sometimes.

I know your kitty's high BG numbers are frightening, however a hypoglycemic event will be much harder on your kitty. I would recommend you drop to 2U, twice a day, until you see steady numbers, whether they are high or lower. For us, it took 2-3 days to see more stable numbers. Then, you can adjust the insulin dose a little up or down, based on what your kitty's numbers look like. Not whole units, but by .5 or even .25. Sometimes that tiny bit more or less is the key to the right dosage for your kitty. This is based on my experience with my own kitty, who was uncontrolled for a while.

I know it's frustrating. So hard to worry and watch and wonder if you're doing the right things. You. ARE! Your kitty is so lucky to have you because you are here searching for the right things to do. It will get better.

Unfortunately, a lot of veterinarians don't know enough about feline diabetes. They cover it in very small amounts in school, and until they get more practical experience with the disease, sometimes it's tough to get dedicated answers that make sense. that's why I love this board---so many resources when we feel we have no more.

Sending you hugs!
 
Hi Jamie,

It's awful when there is something wrong with our beloved little ones and we are all desperate to help them and do the right thing. I realise that it must be very scary and frustrating for your vet to be telling you one thing and people here telling you something different. We all want to be able to trust our vets implicitly but unfortunately, as several members above have already advised you, sometimes vets don't have sufficient understanding of how to treat feline diabetes correctly and I'm sorry to say that I also agree that your vet appears to be giving you incorrect advice about how to use Vetsulin to treat a feline diabetic.

Saoirse's first insulin was Caninsulin (UK brand name for Vetsulin) so I am familiar with its use. Mary Ann (Tuxedo Mom) has provided you with links to the correct information on the Vetsulin site for how cats should be dosed - TWICE a day.

jamies said:
I posted the other day and my cat went to the vet today and they are still saying to dose him once a day.
It is ve[t]sulin and 3 units but now he said 4
Click to expand...

Hand on heart I think this advice is incorrect and potentially dangerous. With the once a day dosing your cat will be without insulin support for 12 hours of each day. Increasing the size of the once-a-day dose won't give your cat the insulin support required for the 24-hour period; Vetsulin just does not last that long in the cat. Instead, driving up the once-a-day dose would put your kitty at greater risk of having a hypoglycaemic episode during the 12-hour period covered by the injection.

For your kitty's safety and your own sanity perhaps you could email the link for the completely legitimate cat dosing info from the Vetsulin site to your vets ASAP and discuss it with them?

:bighug:


Mogs
.
 
Last edited:
please talk to another vet asap. It will set your mind at rest as well as being the best thing for your cat. Because most vets don't specialise, they have to know about every disease in every animal, not all vets will be up to date with the best and safest way to treat diabetes. Everyone here is saying what they say because they genuinely care about what you and your furbaby are going through and want the best for you.
 
Again, there is not a vet office around that will just answer me, my cat has heart issues and ibd . I have called other offices and they do not help unless you come in.I had an emergency dose question and the er wouldn't even help me

I talked to the vet and called vesulin.
The vet said his glucose is fine at night and high in the morning and that is why he gave that dose.
The company said ask your vet. It is recommend twice a day but it depends on your cat and their size. ( he is over 20lbs)
But then she called me back and said it's recommended twice a day
So I'm basically going into this blind
I had him since sat. I'm all new to this so yea it's frustrating and scary
This vet saved my cats life more than once.
I would hate to think he would give me the wrong info

I left the Facebook group because apparently I didn't didn't know it was the same people and I guess it's wrong to ask on both
Thanks for the info.
 
The trouble is, the blood glucose levels can vary from day to day, another day your cat may be fine in the morning and high at night, that's why it's so important to home test. I'm so sorry the other vets offices are being so unhelpful, are there any advice lines you can call?
 
jamies said:
I would hate to think he would give me the wrong info
Click to expand...

It's not that your vet is a "bad vet" or that he's not amazing in other ways....it's just that vets only get 5 hours of formal education on diabetes when they're in school and that covers all types of animals they see.....Unless your vet has a special interest in feline diabetes, he's not going to stay up to date on the latest treatments.

Although they're required to take continuing education classes, vets get to choose which classes they go to. They see a lot more diabetic dogs than cats so if they do choose a diabetic class, it's more likely to be for dogs.

The people here do nothing but deal with feline diabetes and the complications that tend to come with it. We have the real life experience, day in/day out that even the best vet doesn't have. We have the time to research the latest treatments and learn from each other's mistakes as well as triumphs.

jamies said:
I left the Facebook group because apparently I didn't didn't know it was the same people and I guess it's wrong to ask on both
Click to expand...

No reason you have to leave the Facebook group.....although a lot of people are on both, there are quite a few that aren't. Although the Facebook group asks that specific dose advise be kept on this message board, you can learn a lot of basic stuff from the Facebook group .....It's also sometimes faster if you need help quickly to post in both....if your post here doesn't get a quick enough answer, you can post in the FB group (with the link to your post here) so people who monitor the group may see it sooner
 
jamies said:
I have called other offices and they do not help unless you come in.I had an emergency dose question and the er wouldn't even help me
Click to expand...

When we first started, our first vet was an idiot (not saying yours is at all....it's just a fact that ours was much more interested in making money than helping animals) so I had to find a new one.

What I did was call several vets in the area and told them I had a recently diagnosed diabetic cat and was looking for information on how they treated their diabetic cat patients. I asked for the vet to call me back (and that I realized it would probably be after office hours) and I had no problem getting several call-backs.

I asked how they treat their diabetic cats....What type of food they recommend? What type of insulin they like to start with? Are they willing to change insulins if their first choice doesn't seem to work for your cat? How many diabetic cats do they currently see? What kind of results have they gotten? (any patients go into remission?) Do they support home testing?

You really should be able to get a good feeling for what they know over the phone...or at least how flexible they are

No vet will give you specifics without seeing the cat, but most will give you basic information about how they generally treat their own patients.
 
I appreciate what you are saying but I have never called a vet that I do not go to and have them call you back. You talk to the receptionist and they say you have to come in
I just went through this with my cat having IBD and calling around for an second opinion
I don't have the money to jump from vet to vet to see which has the most knowledge about this
My cat has been to the er more than once this year with issues and I have spent thousands of dollars trying to help him
He also Hates the vet being that he has been there more times than I can count. He has a heart condition and I don't want to put extra stress on him. The most I can do is ask around

I understand that you are knowledgeable but I'm super nervous dosing on him and not knowing what I am doing.

He has other issues I have to to take in account not just diabetes and I have spent two years dealing with them the best I could. I can't just go to another vet.
 
jamies said:
I appreciate what you are saying but I have never called a vet that I do not go to and have them call you back. You talk to the receptionist and they say you have to come in
I just went through this with my cat having IBD and calling around for an second opinion
I don't have the money to jump from vet to vet to see which has the most knowledge about this
My cat has been to the er more than once this year with issues and I have spent thousands of dollars trying to help him
He also Hates the vet being that he has been there more times than I can count. He has a heart condition and I don't want to put extra stress on him. The most I can do is ask around

I understand that you are knowledgeable but I'm super nervous dosing on him and not knowing what I am doing.

He has other issues I have to to take in account not just diabetes and I have spent two years dealing with them the best I could. I can't just go to another vet.
Click to expand...

You're feeling quite conflicted and just want to do what's best for your kitty. It's obvious that you look after him very, very well. I also understand you not wanting to jump from vet to vet and stress your kitty more with endless clinic visits and examinations and spend a lot more money than you have already. You'd feel more comfortable hearing how to dose from a vet - I know that from what you've written. You already know what your current vet is telling you to do. We've given you different advice.

Unfortunately, you're in the position of having to choose which way to go: 1. listen to your vet's advice, 2. bite the bullet and visit at least one other vet or 3. spend, say, two days trying what we've suggested.
 
Yes of course I wish I would feel more confident hearing it from a vet. I'm just terrified. I already decided that I think four is too high. I'm afraid if something goes wrong and I dose twice in morning then 12 hours later, if something's happens it will be all my fault. that is my conflict.
I'm truly truly terrified.
 
jamies said:
I appreciate what you are saying but I have never called a vet that I do not go to and have them call you back. You talk to the receptionist and they say you have to come in
I just went through this with my cat having IBD and calling around for an second opinion
I don't have the money to jump from vet to vet to see which has the most knowledge about this
My cat has been to the er more than once this year with issues and I have spent thousands of dollars trying to help him
He also Hates the vet being that he has been there more times than I can count. He has a heart condition and I don't want to put extra stress on him. The most I can do is ask around

I understand that you are knowledgeable but I'm super nervous dosing on him and not knowing what I am doing.

He has other issues I have to to take in account not just diabetes and I have spent two years dealing with them the best I could. I can't just go to another vet.
Click to expand...

Jamie,

My cat also hated the vet, and vet visits are, like you have said, expensive and stressful. I know your kitty has other issues and you are just doing the best you can. We can give you our experience, but if you feel better going with your vet's advice, then that's what you should do. If you give the 4 units, I would make sure you do it when you are there to watch him. Vetsulin will work pretty quickly, so you want to make sure you are around to catch a hypo event if he has one. Just keep karo (corn syrup) or some high carb cat food around. I kept wet foods with gravies for Tigger. Also, have a plastic spoon or baby spoon handy. Tigger would just about take my hand off when he had a hypo because he could smell the food, but couldn't really see it or hear me talk to him. Just spoon feed until he comes around, and have fresh water. If he does have a hypo, be careful with the dosing at the next shot. Cats are usually more sensitive to the insulin at that point, so 4U could just send him right back into it. At that point, I would likely cut the dose in half or just skip it until the next shot time.

I'm sorry you're having a hard time. We just worry, so we get very forward with our advice, but I would never want you to feel like you aren't a valued member of the group and like you don't know what's best for your kitty. Because that's just not true. You're his mom, his caretaker, and you have to do what you think is best. I totally get that. Feel free to friend request me on FB if you'd like....totally up to you. You can find me under "Rachel Alsup Best"

Sending Hugs and Purrs....
 
I know the fear and anxiety you are having right now. When my first kitty was diagnosed I had a vet that gave me a LOT of wrong information, but I was petrified to try it on my own. By doing a LOT of reading, on many many sites I started to understand the treatment process better and then I started home-testing...against my first vets "orders". That made such a world of difference to be able to see what was happening with my kitty and how the insulin was working. I changed vets and came to rely on the wonderful community of experienced people here and continued reading and learning. The home testing gave me the ability to stop worrying about what was happening or what might happen, since I was able to monitor at home at any time. :bighug: :bighug:
 
jamies said:
Yes of course I wish I would feel more confident hearing it from a vet. I'm just terrified. I already decided that I think four is too high. I'm afraid if something goes wrong and I dose twice in morning then 12 hours later, if something's happens it will be all my fault. that is my conflict.
I'm truly truly terrified.
Click to expand...

I know all about being scared. My goodness, it is a heavy load to carry. Even though high numbers are not what we want, they are better than the lowest lows. So, if you don't like the 4U, then maybe try the 3U, but I would still dose once in the morning, and once in the evening. Vetsulin works so fast, so it would definitely wear off after the 12 hours. Once you get him stable somewhat on the 3U, and he's still not low enough, you could go up by smaller increments. Or, if he's too low, decrease by smaller increments.

If you need someone to talk to, you can direct message me and I'll give you my phone number. Even if its just someone to talk to about everything. It's hard carrying the load of a sick cat, especially when you don't know what to do.
 
Kris & Teasel said:
Unfortunately, you're in the position of having to choose which way to go: 1. listen to your vet's advice, 2. bite the bullet and visit at least one other vet or 3. spend, say, two days trying what we've suggested.
Click to expand...
Tuxedo Mom said:
By doing a LOT of reading, on many many sites I started to understand the treatment process better and then I startted home-testing...againsy my first vets "orders". That made such a world of difference to be able to see what was happening with my kitty and how the insulin was working. I changed vets and came to rely on the wonderful community of experienced people here and continued reading and learning. The home testing gave me the ability to stop worrying about what was happening or what might happen, since I was able to monitor at home at any time.
Click to expand...
And that's option #4.
If you're willing to learn how to test kitty's blood sugar at home, you'll know what's going on and when kitty's numbers are high or low. You'll see for yourself how the insulin is working.

What do you say? Want to learn so you can make educated decisions based on what you'll be seeing first-hand?

Here's some help: Hometesting Links and Tips


Rachel & Tigger said:
If you need someone to talk to, you can direct message me and I'll give you my phone number. Even if its just someone to talk to about everything. It's hard carrying the load of a sick cat, especially when you don't know what to do.
Click to expand...
Let's just be careful to keep all suggestions and advice on the board where they can be available for peer review. The FDMB is a peer reviewed message board. :)
 
jamies said:
Thank you all very much
If I spilt the dose do I do 2 unit in the morning and then 2 later or 1.5 then 1.5?
Click to expand...


Until you are able to try home-testing it would be safer to be more conservative. My own thought is to try the 1.5 unit twice a day at 12 hour intervals. It is less than a week since you have started insulin and until you are able to test at home it is very hard to judge how well the dose done every 12 hours will work. I am sure others will have some thoughts on this as well. I tend to be conservative, especially when there is no home testing yet.

ETA I believe you said on another post your kitty weighs around 18 lbs..is that correct?
 
jamies said:
Thank you all very much
If I spilt the dose do I do 2 unit in the morning and then 2 later or 1.5 then 1.5?
Click to expand...
I'd recommend doing 1.5/1.5. you may need the 2/2, but its good to go slow and let his body adjust some. My cat is 18lbs and we are at dance between 2-2.5 for a dose.

As the others said, home testing is extremely helpful. It took me three days to get a successful test, but its worth it. Your cat may even surprise you on how well they take it (mine did).

Good luck!!!! <3
 
So try 1.5 units twice a day at equally spaced intervals - is that a plan? I think you'll feel much better once you've made a decision and carry it out. You really can trust what we say - it comes from looking after diabetic kitties on a daily basis, sometimes for many years. You don't have to feel disrespectful of your vet - he no doubt means well but we can't all be experts in everything and in this case he may be slightly torn in what to tell you... what we're saying is out of real experience, both with our own kitties and what we've learned from others.

I think you said you were getting a meter yesterday so your next step is to practise with that so you can test your kitty's BGs at home - THAT is what will give you peace of mind. When you have some data after a few days you will feel more confident about giving insulin and you can adjust the dose up or down as necessary... we are here to help with that.

The other thing to say is that you don't have to tell your vet what dose you're giving. In an ideal world you would, but many of us have acted outside vet advice and are glad we did. Hopefully you can still have a good relationship with the vet.

You will get this... it's getting over this initial hurdle, starting to dose at a conservative level, test at home... it starts to become routine very quickly. This board is a mine of information so make use of it... it is a life saver.

Let us know what you do - we're all rooting for you.
 
He threw up spit his morning but then ate
I still have him 2 u about 45 min later
I have to go to work but my daughter is home
So won't be able to test him until later

I have off after today until Monday so hopefully I will be able to figure this out
Thanks again
 
jamies said:
He threw up spit his morning but then ate
I still have him 2 u about 45 min later
I have to go to work but my daughter is home
So won't be able to test him until later

I have off after today until Monday so hopefully I will be able to figure this out
Thanks again
Click to expand...

Good luck! I'm glad you reduced his dose for now. Please let us know the test result when you do it later.
 
I am going to try my best.

I have read a lot of info, hopefully it will work out.

I have another question, how often should he be eating?
I have read twice a day and with his IBD, that is super hard. He often gets small meal( use a feeder when not home) to prevent him from over eating and throwing up
 
With Vetsulin it is important that they have a decent meal before each shot. Other than that feeding several small mini-meals in between is fine. When you are going to be doing the preshot testing just make sure that your kitty has not eaten for at least 2 hours before the test. That way there will be no food influence in the test reading.

If you need any help with home-testing there is lots of information here:

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/hometesting-links-and-tips.287/

And lots of members here can give additional tips that worked well for them.
 
jamies said:
I am going to try my best.

I have read a lot of info, hopefully it will work out.

I have another question, how often should he be eating?
I have read twice a day and with his IBD, that is super hard. He often gets small meal( use a feeder when not home) to prevent him from over eating and throwing up
Click to expand...

He can eat several times a day, but not two hours prior to testing so the number is not effected. Test, feed, then shoot.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top