Newbie at insulin needing advice

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geenaroses

geenaroses

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I had my little boy at the Humane Society animal vet today. They insisted on doing a 6 hour curve on him, which he is 10 days into being on Vetsulin 2 units/2x day. I had volunteered to do it at home so as to not stress him and have it more accurate, but that's besides the point. ;) After our long car ride home through traffic and upon arriving home, I let my little buddy out of his carrier and noticed blood on his paw. At first I thought maybe it was from their blood draws. I proceeded to prepare his food as he was wanting to eat. I got his dish prepared and he jumped up on his table with a long piece of drool hanging from his mouth...hmmm. I know he has a bad tooth in the back of his mouth, but he ate perfectly fine when he left and had no such symptom like THAT. I put down his dish and he does to take a bite and starts flailing his paws and blood and drool are coming from his mouth. Okay, tooth issues. I water the food...he tries again and it's a no go. Of course, bu the time we are experiencing all of this it is too late to call anyone and they will not extract this darn tooth until his sugar is regulated. SO...what do I do about his insulin shot(s)?? I have been feeding him and giving him his shot. He is thin and a pretty large cat, I really hate for him to be missing ANY meals at this point. And have no idea what to do about giving him a shot or not. They told me hos curve ran up in the high 300's-400's today. He's not THAT high at home, but no where near regulated of course. Help please.:nailbiting::nailbiting::nailbiting::nailbiting::nailbiting::nailbiting::bighug: Princeton profile.jpg
 
If he is not eating, I would not give him Vetsulin.

I am more worried about his tooth. I dont know much of your story, but are you able to go to a different animal hospital? Whatever is happening with his tooth really needs to be looked at and can serious.
 
They are aware of it. He just finished a script of antibiotic, which really didn't help much. Again, they want to extract the tooth, but said not until his sugar is regulated. Their suspicion about his tooth (possibly teeth) and dr sees a spot on his chin that she believes is cancer and would like to test it....an incurable cancer. So, 1 doctor visit and it's antibiotic for swollen glands, insulin for diabetes and oh, btw I think your baby has incurable cancer so let's test him to find that out. :( So, I thought to slow that train down I would start first by making him feel better and decide on the testing later.
 
:bighug: :bighug: :bighug:

I hate to say, but I think your kitty needs to be seen asap for the bleeding tooth =/ at this point, unless he has other medical issues (other than the potential for cancer), the diabetes shouldn't be stopping them from extracting it. But I am definitely not a vet.
 
CassAndGordy said:
If he is not eating, I would not give him Vetsulin.

I am more worried about his tooth. I dont know much of your story, but are you able to go to a different animal hospital? Whatever is happening with his tooth really needs to be looked at and can serious.
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Can I feed him baby food and if so, you have any recommendations?
 
geenaroses said:
Can I feed him baby food and if so, you have any recommendations?
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If you're going to feed him the baby food, it has to be a meat only kind -especially no onions or garlic.

Im trying to get eyes on your post. But in my opinion, i would not give insulin until he eats and keeps down a good meal.

(Reinterating that I think he needs to be seen now.)
 
CassAndGordy said:
:bighug: :bighug: :bighug:

I hate to say, but I think your kitty needs to be seen asap for the bleeding tooth =/ at this point, unless he has other medical issues (other than the potential for cancer), the diabetes shouldn't be stopping them from extracting it. But I am definitely not a vet.
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No other medical issues that I am aware of...none that they have told me. :banghead: I surely didn't expect to pick himup in worse shape then I dropped him off...poor little guy. Ugh!
 
CassAndGordy said:
If you're going to feed him the baby food, it has to be a meat only kind -especially no onions or garlic.

Im trying to get eyes on your post. But in my opinion, i would not give insulin until he eats and keeps down a good meal.

(Reinterating that I think he needs to be seen now.)
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Thank you so much. I won't give him the insulin tonight. I cannot unfortunately afford an emergency hospital visit (living on disability), but you can bet I will be first in back at the clinic in the morning. Will stay up with my baby tonight.
 
geenaroses said:
They insisted on doing a 6 hour curve on him,
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What did they say about insulin dose after doing this curve?

geenaroses said:
they will not extract this darn tooth until his sugar is regulated.
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People on this forum have had dental work including extractions done on their diabetic cats.

He needs to have a full meal on board at least 20 - 30 minutes before you inject Vetsulin because it's a fast acting insulin. If the sore tooth is preventing him from eating you can try syringing plain meat baby food with a little water added.

There seems to be something significant going on in his mouth whether it's a tooth or something else. It needs vet attention. Getting a diabetic cat regulated can take weeks so I don't understand their reluctance to treat what appears to be an acute problem now.
 
geenaroses said:
Thank you so much. I won't give him the insulin tonight. I cannot unfortunately afford an emergency hospital visit (living on disability), but you can bet I will be first in back at the clinic in the morning. Will stay up with my baby tonight.
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Ok, well that is better than nothing. Just try and get him as comfortable if possible. If you have the baby food, see if he can do that. Do you know when he ate successfully last?

And i second all of Kris' post.
 
Kris & Teasel said:
What did they say about insulin dose after doing this curve?


People on this forum have had dental work including extractions done on their diabetic cats.

He needs to have a full meal on board at least 20 - 30 minutes before you inject Vetsulin because it's a fast acting insulin. If the sore tooth is preventing him from eating you can try syringing plain meat baby food with a little water added.

There seems to be something significant going on in his mouth whether it's a tooth or something else. It needs vet attention. Getting a diabetic cat regulated can take weeks so I don't understand their reluctance to treat what appears to be an acute problem now.
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They wanted to increase his insulin dosage from 2 U to 3 U, which personally I disagree with because of the stressful situation of the surroundings affecting their readings. Badically I feel this 6 hr curve was to humor themsince they will not allow people who can do home testing to present an accurate charting to them. I know he hasnt been on insulin before this time, I have experience with testing him.
 
A warning: if a diabetic cat has high blood glucose, isn't eating, is dehydrated (from lack of food, vomiting or excessive urination) and has an infection going on you have a perfect storm of things that can very quickly cause some serious complications like diabetic ketoacidosis and/or hepatic lipidosis. This would require very expensive ER intensive care treatment. Your kitty needs attention ASAP.
 
Kris & Teasel said:
A warning: if a diabetic cat has high blood glucose, isn't eating, is dehydrated (from lack of food, vomiting or excessive urination) and has an infection going on you have a perfect storm of things that can very quickly cause some serious complications like diabetic ketoacidosis and/or hepatic lipidosis. This would require very expensive ER intensive care treatment. Your kitty needs attention ASAP.
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Oh...I didn't answer your question. I don't know if they fed him, but I last got a full good meal in him at 7:30 a.m. EST and he got a couple of licks of food. He has been drinking water (thank goodness).
 
geenaroses said:
They wanted to increase his insulin dosage from 2 U to 3 U, which personally I disagree with because of the stressful situation of the surroundings affecting their readings. Badically I feel this 6 hr curve was to humor themsince they will not allow people who can do home testing to present an accurate charting to them. I know he hasnt been on insulin before this time, I have experience with testing him.
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The recommended starting dose of Vetsulin is 1 unit twice a day. What was the reasoning behind prescribing 2 units twice a day at the start? Any increase in dose should be no more than 0.25 u at a time. It sounds as though you can test blood glucose at home. Are you using a human meter?
 
To summarize:
  • His mouth needs vet attention ASAP.
  • He needs food - whatever he'll eat. This is very important.
  • He needs insulin but MUST have enough food first
  • You need to give some thought to what you can manage at home if your vet isn't being very helpful.
  • You can't wait to get food and water into him. Complications can develop very quickly.
 
Does anyone know of any organizations in the U.S., Florida in particular, that helps someone in my financial situation with my babies? I already lost one to diabetes because of my situation and I am willing to sacrifice my own well-being for them. Two years ago when this "Humane Society" first told me about my kitties I was given 3 options: 1. Adopt them out 2. Figure something out to afford it 3. Put them down. I told them right on the spot that I have a Grandfather with diabetes and I would never consider giving HIM away or putting him down. So the first thing I did was adjust their diets. And their sugar was under control and they went into remission. Unfortunately, while I was in my grief from losing my husband my baby's diabetes returned hard...I amso guilt ridden and determined to not let my other babies down. I need help. They ARE my family.
 
Kris & Teasel said:
The recommended starting dose of Vetsulin is 1 unit twice a day. What was the reasoning behind prescribing 2 units twice a day at the start? Any increase in dose should be no more than 0.25 u at a time. It sounds as though you can test blood glucose at home. Are you using a human meter?
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They started him at 2 U Idk why except maybe because he is a largecat but he has lost a lot of his weight and is down to 12 lbs now. When they test him there he is high 300-400. When I test him home he is mid 200s-low 300s, but can be as low as 120 after insulin. I use the Relion Prime meter.
 
As for your kitty's needs right now, keep trying to get a little food in him and make sure he drinks. Are you feeling wet food normally or dry? Either way, you can also water that down too.

I'd see a vet as soon as you are able to. I know your tight for money, but your cat sounds like he is terribily uncomfortable and probably in pain. :(
 
CassAndGordy said:
As for your kitty's needs right now, keep trying to get a little food in him and make sure he drinks. Are you feeling wet food normally or dry? Either way, you can also water that down too.

I'd see a vet as soon as you are able to. I know your tight for money, but your car sounds like he is terribily uncomfortable and probably in pain. :(
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Only wet food....Fancy Feast Classic Chicken. He gets treat at times...freeze dried chicken, but not tonight of course. I have both kitties on this feeding. My boy gets a can and a half in morning and night and 1/2 can mid-day. And before bed he usually wants just a teaspoon to sleep.:)
 
geenaroses said:
Only wet food....Fancy Feast Classic Chicken. He gets treat at times...freeze dried chicken, but not tonight of course. I have both kitties on this feeding. My boy gets a can and a half in morning and night and 1/2 can mid-day. And before bed he usually wants just a teaspoon to sleep.:)
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Good. So he had trouble eating normally? Have you tried watering it down? If its watered down enough, he can lick it up.like he does water.
 
Kris & Teasel said:
To summarize:
  • His mouth needs vet attention ASAP.
  • He needs food - whatever he'll eat. This is very important.
  • He needs insulin but MUST have enough food first
  • You need to give some thought to what you can manage at home if your vet isn't being very helpful.
  • You can't wait to get food and water into him. Complications can develop very quickly.
Click to expand...

I will have his mouth addressed ASAP. He is at the very least uncomfortable and undoubtably in pain. I have a regular vet that I used to see, but he's in surgeries on Thursdays otherwise I would even at very least consult with him. I am very upset about his mouth and to wait on his sugar to address his mouth IS ridiculous. He surely won't make it. I will let you all know how he is doing. Thank you all so much!
 
CassAndGordy said:
Good. So he had trouble eating normally? Have you tried watering it down? If its watered down enough, he can lick it up.like he does water.
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I did water it down, but I guess the little pieces in the pate were bothering whatever is going on in his mouth that water does not bother. That is why I asked about baby food since it is real smooth.
 
geenaroses said:
I will have his mouth addressed ASAP. He is at the very least uncomfortable and undoubtably in pain. I have a regular vet that I used to see, but he's in surgeries on Thursdays otherwise I would even at very least consult with him. I am very upset about his mouth and to wait on his sugar to address his mouth IS ridiculous. He surely won't make it. I will let you all know how he is doing. Thank you all so much!
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geenaroses said:
I did water it down, but I guess the little pieces in the pate were bothering whatever is going on in his mouth that water does not bother. That is why I asked about baby food since it is real smooth.
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Keep us posted! I am sorry there's not much we assist beyond what Kris wrote. I hope you're able to get him in to be seen.

Baby food is fine too for this case, as long as its the meat only kind. (Repeating just in case.) Its not a longterm fix for food, but itll help get something in him.
 
CassAndGordy said:
Are you ok with all the advice we've given? I really can't stay up much longer but I dont want you to feel abandoned.
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Yes. I am going to run to Wal-Mart for a (lol) baby food run. I would feel much better knowing I exhausted every food option. Thank you so much for sticking with me. Please go get some zzz's.
 
geenaroses said:
Yes. I am going to run to Wal-Mart for a (lol) baby food run. I would feel much better knowing I exhausted every food option. Thank you so much for sticking with me. Please go get some zzz's.
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Ok! Keep this thread up to date with any progress and Ill check in with you in the AM.

(Ps - i had luck with beechnut brand stuff at walmart. They have a beef, chick and a turkey one.)
 
Good morning! Just checking in and hoping you're able to bring kitty to the vet today!

As for dosing advice in the future, we all try and use spread sheets here so we can help with dosing/advice. Here is a link for how to set it up: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/fdmb-spreadsheet-instructions.130337/ (I didnt want to bring it up last night because you were already dealing with a lot.)
You may also want to edit your signature with stuff about your cat that will help us at quick glance. Everyone does is a little different, so Id suggest peeking around and seeing what formag you like. We also link the spreadsheet in our signatures.
 
How are things this AM? I apologize if I sounded curt in my posts last night. I wanted to get the key info out in as brief and clear a way as possible.
 
Would you mind removing the red 911 from your thread title if you aren't in an emergency at this time? You can replace it with the blue question mark to get attention on this forum. The 911 can go back up if things go haywire and you need help immediately.

Another suggestion: you'll get a lot more attention on your posts if you put them on the main health forum where they'll be seen by many people. This forum is small and not visited as often. :)
 
Kris & Teasel said:
Would you mind removing the red 911 from your thread title if you aren't in an emergency at this time? You can replace it with the blue question mark to get attention on this forum. The 911 can go back up if things go haywire and you need help immediately.

Another suggestion: you'll get a lot more attention on your posts if you put them on the main health forum where they'll be seen by many people. This forum is small and not visited as often. :)
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Kris & Teasel said:
Would you mind removing the red 911 from your thread title if you aren't in an emergency at this time? You can replace it with the blue question mark to get attention on this forum. The 911 can go back up if things go haywire and you need help immediately.

Another suggestion: you'll get a lot more attention on your posts if you put them on the main health forum where they'll be seen by many people. This forum is small and not visited as often. :)
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I am sorry...I was/am so frantic and am quite new to the posting on forum. I hope I did it right.
 
geenaroses said:
I would REALLY like to talk to someone. Can I call someone on here??
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I am unfortunately at work, but please post over on the "Feline Health" forum and see if someone is around to call. Or, you said you joined a DCIN group? Maybe someone there is available? I am really sorry you're having a difficult time. I wish I could help more. :bighug:
 
Spoke to Jenna at DCIN. I am off to pick up Princeton after I make a couple of phone calls. I made a new thread under the Main Health Forum and will continue any updates there, as suggested. :bighug:
 
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