Zeke - Regulation and Diet

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Meridith and Zeke

Meridith and Zeke

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Ok, with what happened yesterday (ketones at 15, tested this morning and still between negative and trace so adding extra fluids to food etc today) I know we really need to get this guy regulated. I also know that getting him to eat without grazing is going to most likely help.

Will this work?
I already know that he will usually eat at least 1/2 can during a feeding then graze on the rest. What if I break the meals down to instead of 2 meals, 4 meals. So feeding approximately every 6 hours. After he is better about eating everything at each meal, then change to 3 meals. No more leaving it out for them to graze on. My gremlin is going to be mad because he rarely even takes a bite during meal time, he is strictly a grazer.

I figure if I can get food better under control, then maybe we can finally get Mr Fuzzy Butt regulated.
 
Meridith and Zeke said:
Ok, with what happened yesterday (ketones at 15, tested this morning and still between negative and trace so adding extra fluids to food etc today) I know we really need to get this guy regulated. I also know that getting him to eat without grazing is going to most likely help.

Will this work?
I already know that he will usually eat at least 1/2 can during a feeding then graze on the rest. What if I break the meals down to instead of 2 meals, 4 meals. So feeding approximately every 6 hours. After he is better about eating everything at each meal, then change to 3 meals. No more leaving it out for them to graze on. My gremlin is going to be mad because he rarely even takes a bite during meal time, he is strictly a grazer.

I figure if I can get food better under control, then maybe we can finally get Mr Fuzzy Butt regulated.
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How is Zeke this AM? Keep up the anti-ketone stuff for several days going forward.

Re feeding: there's no need to restrict meals to only twice a day in a kitty that likes to graze. So long as you remove his food for 2 hours prior to every pre shot BG test, make sure he eats a small meal 30 minutes before his AM and PM shots (because Novolin can hit fast), he can graze the rest of his low carb wet food through the day. Your signature says he's underweight so don't limit his intake.

Re regulation: aside from feeding as described above, you need a structured dosing routine in place. You're testing plenty right now so you've got that covered. You've only had one green early on, there was concern about a 3 u dose recommended by your vet (justifiable!) and, since then, a few NSs and dose reductions that I'm not sure I understand. How about this:
  • finish up today at 0.75 u. Aim for one mid cycle and one before bed test.
  • go up to 1 u tomorrow AM - maybe two mid cycle tests between +3 and +8 and one before bed?
  • keep 1 u for 3 cycles and increase to 1.25 u if there's no positive effect on BG
  • rinse and repeat with 1.5 u, 1.75 u, 2.0 u, and so on.
  • keep posting here for advice.
You can do this and Zeke will get better regulated but it'll take a bit more effort on your part. :)
 
Kris & Teasel said:
How is Zeke this AM? Keep up the anti-ketone stuff for several days going forward.
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He is still between negative and trace so adding extra fluids etc to keep with yesterday's routine.

Kris & Teasel said:
Re feeding: there's no need to restrict meals to only twice a day in a kitty that likes to graze. So long as you remove his food for 2 hours prior to every pre shot BG test, make sure he eats a small meal 30 minutes before his AM and PM shots (because Novolin can hit fast), he can graze the rest of his low carb wet food through the day. Your signature says he's underweight so don't limit his intake.
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That normally would be fine, but with him still not gaining weight (even loosing between last 2 weighings), I'm concerned he isn't getting enough. I do have another that we have nicknamed fat boy and he loves to pig. He has actually been gaining weight. So it isn't a restriction, it is so can better monitor how much he is getting without the other eating it all. Can't watch the food bowls every second and fat boy is fast!

Kris & Teasel said:
You've only had one green early on, there was concern about a 3 u dose recommended by your vet (justifiable!) and, since then, a few NSs and dose reductions that I'm not sure I understand. How about this:
  • finish up today at 0.75 u. Aim for one mid cycle and one before bed test.
  • go up to 1 u tomorrow AM - maybe two mid cycle tests between +3 and +8 and one before bed?
  • keep 1 u for 3 cycles and increase to 1.25 u if there's no positive effect on BG
  • rinse and repeat with 1.5 u, 1.75 u, 2.0 u, and so on.
  • keep posting here for advice.
Click to expand...

I have another thread on here where @MrWorfMen's Mom and @Yong have been helping me. The NS's have been from either because he was below 200 or once because we had to go out of town and left too early to do his shot, since it was going to be more then 2 hours early.

Wouldn't that frequent dose changing cause a bounce?
 
OK. I haven't seen all the dosing details that @Yong and @MrWorfMen's Mom have been helping you with. Re feeding: if you can isolate Zeke to give him more small meals a day that could help. Maybe fit them in when your schedule permits.

The idea behind changing the dose that frequently is to move him out of high numbers sooner than later to avoid him getting "stuck" up there. Once you see a more positive effect from a dose (blue numbers at first, dark greens later) then you can hold it longer. Yes, bouncing can happen but, from what I see on your SS, he's not a violent bouncer.

@Yong @MrWorfMen's Mom What do you think?
 
Kris & Teasel said:
Re feeding: if you can isolate Zeke to give him more small meals a day that could help. Maybe fit them in when your schedule permits.
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That's kinda how we are doing now. He doesn't like not knowing what everyone else has in their bowls though and will sit in the room and cry til we open the door. He is a stubborn one!
 
I'm with both of you with the food issues. Having more than one kitty does indeed complicate things when you have a nosy cat who has to see if there's a better option in another dish or one who likes to pilfer from any bowl available. I feel like a lunchroom monitor most days and find myself feeding cats in odd places and times just so I can monitor. It's a PIA to be sure and I wish I had a easy answer because I have a couple of door scratchers and screamers if I try to isolate in different rooms with doors closed. The problem is worse when you have cats that don't eat their full portion in one go. What I have started to do, is give the grazers the amount I'm pretty certain they will eat in one sitting. This eliminates me turning my back to find Menace pilfering their bowls at main meal times. I then wait till Menace is napping and the boys "tell" me they want more and I return their bowls to them in an area away from where Menace is napping. I've found that over time, the boys are getting better about eating more of their food at main meal/snack times because they've had to go hungry for an hour or two on occasion from this new process.

Recently I found some food the boys love but Menace won't touch. This has made things a bit easier but may not last because Menace may decide she will eat their food one day and I'll be back to square one.

@Kris & Teasel I agree we don't want kitty to get stuck in high numbers but I find they often don't settle into a dose within 3 cycles and usually suggest holding for 6 cycles so any potential bouncing has cleared. Problem is sometimes bounces can be set off even on lowered doses. Zeke is a head scratcher because he seems to rise rather than drop early in the cycle a lot but then he's also had blue numbers following missed shots and interestingly, his pre-shots following missed shots have been pretty darn good and often lower than they are when his shots have been regular. I'm honestly not sure what he's up to. Bit of challenge like a couple of other cats near and dear to our hearts! I wish Mogs was around to give us her opinion.:(

For now, maybe try only holding doses for 3 cycles is the way to go and we'll see what that does for Zeke. ECID!
 
Feeding these 3 wouldn't be so bad if it wasn't for fat boy lol. 2 grazers and a pig is not a good combo. And yes it is like being a lunch room monitor! Luckily I like math because I feel like I'm doing throughout meal time, Zeke can't stay at his bowl so I'm constantly trying to figure out how much total after his grazing out of everyone's bowl. I love the times he is hungry enough to not care he is in the room alone lol.

I will just keep logging everything and post here when I'm unsure or notice changes and we can give @Kris & Teasel route a try. Eventually something will work or Zeke will finally catch on lol.
 
On board with food ideas! I would say Zeke is a behaved bouncer :p It does seem like the Novolin is with him for the 12 hours and if it's too high a dose, a little longer. I get a weird feeling we might see good things on a fat 1.0U and I think Zeke will remain in average doses, less than 3.0U. Right now the increase, extra fluids, and extra calories should help flush those ketones out :)
 
153, first blue we have had in a bit! I think I'm on the right track changing my grazer to normal feeders lol. The gremlin dug right in and Zeke isn't even complaining this time in the bedroom.
 
Ok, so kinda play by ear on how he is doing tonight after his evening shot? If need to have my daughter stay up to get some more mid test during the night she can.
 
Yep! Playing by ear is about all you can do right now because the steps to his dance are not quite clear yet and he's leading....all you can do is follow! ;) It never hurts to get more tests so if your daughter can get another test even later than +2 that will give you more useful information.
 
Yong said:
How long until PMPS? :)
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Just seen ur message, sorry. When u posted, was only 30 minutes before. He got an even 300. At +2 he got 256 then at +6 he got 163.

Yesterday he did have 2 quarter sized very very foamy vomits. Then my daughter left me a note this morning that he had vomited 3 times during the night. I can tell where one was since she didn't clean it up very well and it is a decent sized spot.

His morning ketone test put him pretty much at negative.
 
Great news on ketones! :woot:
Not to be graphic, were the foamy vomits white/clear? Can happen if kitty is too hungry between meals. Is Zeke still on 2 feedings a day?

Another nice blue! :cool:
 
The foamy stuff was probably more clear then anything, though the foam did kinda make it look whitish. He is now on 4 smaller meals and I don't pick up til I know he is done eating. He is actually getting more food now then he was before. Fat boy had been pigging it. Last weighing, fat boy gained while zeke lost.
 
Yeah for another blue number and no ketones! Yuck on the vomiting! With him getting more food and multiple feeds per day, he should have enough food on his tummy to keep any excess acid down but maybe he's still adjusting to not grazing. I've seen both my boys vomit white foamy liquid only to find it was a precursor to a hairball. Keep an eye on him. I assume the weather is very hot, so could that be causing him to be off at all?
 
The vomit my daughter didn't clean up the best possibly could have been from a hairball, but the coloring seems more like food. (she has a week stomach so lucky she cleaned it up that well lol) Hopefully he is just adjusting to the change in feeding.

I keep it 72 in the house cause I can't handle the heat at all, so that shouldn't be affecting him any.
 
Now that my daughter is up, it was 2 foamies and then the 1 spot that had possible food. The big one was before the food they got at 2:30 am with the foamies after food.

I think it is safe to say he is starting to feel better though. He zipped through the house earlier and about ran me down in the process! He hasn't done that in awhile lol. Play yes, zip no lol.
 
Sounds like it's leaning more towards acid reflux type. Hopefully the new feeding schedule will help that :). Maury made me happy the other day when he beat me to the top of the stairs. He used to always rush up ahead of me. Just casually going up, not trying to race him :cat: The little things we love seeing our babies do again :bighug:
 
Yeah it is great seeing him want to play. I think his appetite is increasing too. He ate good this morning and was letting us know he needed a snack (attacking our plates at lunch lol) so gave him some bites of tuna and he went crazy for it lol. So next meal he will be getting a bit more.
 
It looks like the extra food and change of eating schedule is giving him a more normal looking cycle which is great. He's not bouncing now so I think I'd stick with 1u tonight and then bump him up to 1.25u tomorrow. I personally prefer to do dose increases on a day cycle so I'm awake enough to monitor closely if the need arises.;)
 
That is what I was thinking, but didn't know if we needed to go ahead and stay another day at this dose before changing. I hope to finally get this fuzzy butt figured out soon. Ready to see more blues!
 
We got another blue during the night, which is good, but getting concerned with the vomiting. Was 4 spots this morning, 2 small (2 inches by 1) and 2 large. All had an orange color with a consistency of gravy. This started with the feeding change. Could it be adjusting still? Since it is 4 scheduled feedings 6 hours apart right now. If I didn't have to worry about zeke not getting enough, I would go back to the other way of feeding.
 
Another thing. I have been weighing him weekly, and really expected a gain this week because he is finally getting some meat along his spine so not feeling so bony anymore. He lost .6 pounds since last wednesday! He is loosing instead of gaining. I thought maybe the fatboy (he has been gaining, at 20 pounds now) was eating more then he should which is why I changed the feeding schedule, but now I don't know :(
 
Yeah blue! :D

I'm assuming that other than the night vomiting, he is not displaying any other signs of not feeling well? Are his bowels moving OK?

Maybe keep to scheduled feeding during the day but leave some grub out for grazing overnight and see if that helps. Also, increase his portions a bit more. Diabetics can't utilize the food they intake efficiently so they need more than you'd expect. If you want him to gain weight, then up his calories. That may lead to him needing a bit more insulin but you can adjust as needed while trying to get Zeke to pack on some pounds.
 
Yes, he is going fine.

For the amount of food, the issue is making sure he is eating enough. I give him more then he will eat. I would much rather toss some from giving too much then not give enough. My gremlin has also lost weight this week, not thinking he is taking to well to the feeding schedule either.

I'm thinking I might just need to go back to the schedule before, making sure they got plenty for grazing. Hubby is able to pick up early enough in the morning before I do amps.
 
Meridith, do whatever you feel/need to do to keep both the furballs happy. I know my girl would never make it through 6 hours without food so I personally, give her a larger portion at shot time and two other snacks each cycle. I try to keep the last snack about 3 to 4 hours before next shot time. A lot of this is a trial and error situation and you have to find what works best for all concerned.....cat and Mom/Dad/Siblings. The important thing is to figure out why Zeke is vomiting and if he seems fine in all other ways, the new food schedule seems to be the most obvious culprit. :)
 
MrWorfMen's Mom said:
Meridith, do whatever you feel/need to do to keep both the furballs happy. I know my girl would never make it through 6 hours without food so I personally, give her a larger portion at shot time and two other snacks each cycle. I try to keep the last snack about 3 to 4 hours before next shot time. A lot of this is a trial and error situation and you have to find what works best for all concerned.....cat and Mom/Dad/Siblings. The important thing is to figure out why Zeke is vomiting and if he seems fine in all other ways, the new food schedule seems to be the most obvious culprit. :)
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I had put the little remaining from breakfast on the counter and one of them had finished it off. Added another can and Zeke was more then willing to eat some more. Will go back to how it was before and see if the vomiting stops.
 
We did have one vomit tonight, was after I took the food away before pmps. Will see how it is by morning since that is when he normally has been. His +2 was 201 so looks like another blue coming for his peak at 2:30.
 
Kris & Teasel said:
Any recent ketone tests?
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His last couple of tests came back negative. He also didn't vomit early this morning like he has been, so feeding schedule change is what helped bring that along.

On his shot, will see how he does and if not much change, then go to 1.5u in the morning. Is this time being different on how the insulin is affecting him because he isn't bouncing like he was before?
 
When I first started on the forum and was learning about home testing, his numbers seemed to be all over the place and the lower the dose, the lower the overall numbers were.
 
Meridith, finding the right dose for kitty can sometimes be like doing a 2 step.....two steps forward and one step back. When you started out on that higher dose, Zeke was bouncing and sometimes that becomes a vicious circle. Taking the dose down to get the bouncing to stop allows you to really see what the dose is doing for him. Now that he is getting much better numbers, you may find yourself taking the dose back up to what seemed too high before. Totally counter intuitive but that's the nature of the beast. Zeke is getting better familiarized with lower numbers and now you are getting a better picture of how each dose is working for him.
 
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