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SaraBear

SaraBear

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Hi All,

I am new here and need some help, I think. Feeling a bit lost and overwhelmed.

My buddy Rod Stewart is 11 y/o and was diagnosed with diabetes a month and a half ago after I noticed he dropped quite a bit of weight, his coat became dull, and seemed to have less energy. Despite a huge appetite. At that time I was feeding him a mix of fancy feast pate and a grain free dry food.

My vet prescribed Novolin N at 3 units 2x per day. We did this for a month, and I did notice his energy levels improve. i.5 weeks ago, I took Rod in and they did a fructosamine curve. The vet said his blood sugar was still running high and increased him to 5 units 2x/day. The vet scheduled Rod for a follow up visit in three months. :/ The vet didn't give me any numbers for Rod's test results, and I just trusted the vet and did not think to ask. However, Since then I have actually noticed that Rod has quite a bit more energy, he's grooming himself better, and his coat is improving.

Still, I think he needs to be monitored more closely. I'm also thinking his dose seems kind of high compared to what I am reading here but...I have not been home testing until last night when I started reading a lot of info here. My vet had told me it wasn't necessary :( Last night Rod's PMPS was 580! I gave him the 5 units and at +2 he was at 280. +3 he stayed at 280.

This morning, AMPS was 480. +1 was 421. +2 was 321. I have to go to work now but hope to come back home really quick and test again in about two hours.

I haven't been able to get a urine test for ketones but his breath smells normal and he seems to be in good spirits. He actually just jumped on the kitchen counter (the jerk), something he hadn't done in a while.

I guess I am just looking for help/advice. I know I don't have a lot of data yet.
 
SaraBear said:
Hi All,

I am new here and need some help, I think. Feeling a bit lost and overwhelmed.

My buddy Rod Stewart is 11 y/o and was diagnosed with diabetes a month and a half ago after I noticed he dropped quite a bit of weight, his coat became dull, and seemed to have less energy. Despite a huge appetite. At that time I was feeding him a mix of fancy feast pate and a grain free dry food.

My vet prescribed Novolin N at 3 units 2x per day. We did this for a month, and I did notice his energy levels improve. i.5 weeks ago, I took Rod in and they did a fructosamine curve. The vet said his blood sugar was still running high and increased him to 5 units 2x/day. The vet scheduled Rod for a follow up visit in three months. :/ The vet didn't give me any numbers for Rod's test results, and I just trusted the vet and did not think to ask. However, Since then I have actually noticed that Rod has quite a bit more energy, he's grooming himself better, and his coat is improving.

Still, I think he needs to be monitored more closely. I'm also thinking his dose seems kind of high compared to what I am reading here but...I have not been home testing until last night when I started reading a lot of info here. My vet had told me it wasn't necessary :( Last night Rod's PMPS was 580! I gave him the 5 units and at +2 he was at 280. +3 he stayed at 280.

This morning, AMPS was 480. +1 was 421. +2 was 321. I have to go to work now but hope to come back home really quick and test again in about two hours.

I haven't been able to get a urine test for ketones but his breath smells normal and he seems to be in good spirits. He actually just jumped on the kitchen counter (the jerk), something he hadn't done in a while.

I guess I am just looking for help/advice. I know I don't have a lot of data yet.
Click to expand...
Welcome. That is A REALLY high starting dose.
The recommended starting dose is 1 unit twice a day and raising in 0.25-0.5 increments at a time. Your vet raises IN HUGE increments and by doing so you could be skipping the ideal dose. Sometimes too much insulin can look like not enough because of bouncing.

So glad you started testing at home!!!! So so important! Here's a link to the spreadsheet we use. This will help us better advise you.
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/fdmb-spreadsheet-instructions.130337/

Are you still feeding the dry?
 
I'm really glad you've started testing at home!! Here's a lengthy handout I put together for new members. Ask any/all questions you have after you've read it. If you haven't done so, I recommend reading the user guide for your insulin:
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/beginners-guide-to-novolin-humulin-nph.186097/
__________________________________________________________________________________________________________

It would help us if you set up your signature (light grey text under a post). Here's how:
  • click on your name in the upper right corner of this page
  • click on "signature" in the men that drops down
  • type the following in the box that opens: kitty's name/age/date of diabetes diagnosis/insulin you're using /glucose meter you're using/what he eats/any other meds or health issues he has.
Another thing that will help us help you now that you've started BG testing at home is to set up a spreadsheet like the one we use here. We can all see it and look at it before offering advice: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/fdmb-spreadsheet-instructions.130337/

................................................................................................................................................................................................

Here's the basic testing routine we recommend:
  1. test every day AM and PM before feeding and injecting (no food at least 2 hours before) to see if the planned dose is safe
  2. test at least once near mid cycle or at bedtime daily to see how low the BG goes
  3. do extra tests on days off to fill in the response picture
  4. if indicated by consistently high numbers on your spreadsheet, increase the dose by no more than 0.25 u at a time so you don't accidentally go right past a good dose
  5. post here for advice whenever you're confused or unsure of what to do.
This is useful: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/hometesting-links-and-tips.287/

................................................................................................................................................................................................

Here's an explanation of what we call "bouncing". It explains why a kitty's BG can go from low to sky high:
  1. BG goes low OR lower than usual OR drops too quickly.
  2. Kitty's body panics and thinks there's danger (OMG! My BG is too low!).
  3. Complex physiologic processes take glycogen stored in the liver (I think of it as "bounce fuel"), convert it to glucose and dump it into the bloodstream to counteract the perceived dangerously low BG.
  4. These processes go into overdrive in kitties who are bounce prone and keep the BG propped up varying lengths of time (AKA bouncing).
  5. Bounce prone kitty repeats this until his body learns that healthy low numbers are safe. Some kitties are slow learners.
  6. Too high a dose of insulin can keep them bouncing over and over until the " bounce fuel" runs out and they crash - ie., have a hypo episode. That's why we worry so much about kitties that have had too high a starting dose prescribed by the vet and the owner isn't home testing.
................................................................................................................................................................................................

Here are some tips on how to do urine ketone testing (VERY important if BG is high and kitty isn't eating well!):
  • put the end of the test strip right in his urine stream as he's peeing
  • slip a shallow, long handled spoon under his backside to catch a little pee - you don't need much
  • put a double layer of plastic wrap over his favourite part of the litter box and poke some depressions in it too catch pee.
Most test strips have to be dipped and allowed to develop for 15 seconds before viewing the colour change in very good light.
 
I do think the dose is high but since his reading was so high pre shot last night I didn't feel safe lowering it. Was that the wrong call?

I did start a spreadsheet. I am on mobile right now but will add a signature soon.

Thank you for all the info!
 
SaraBear said:
I do think the dose is high but since his reading was so high pre shot last night I didn't feel safe lowering it. Was that the wrong call?

I did start a spreadsheet. I am on mobile right now but will add a signature soon.

Thank you for all the info!
Click to expand...
Good job getting the spreadsheet going! :). Just until you get more readings I'd go back to 3 units. 5 is a large dose and most cats never need that much. It's much safer for the cat to be high temporarily than to be low... Low is dangerous. Are you still feeding dry?
 
JanetNJ said:
Good job getting the spreadsheet going! :). Just until you get more readings I'd go back to 3 units. 5 is a large dose and most cats never need that much. It's much safer for the cat to be high temporarily than to be low... Low is dangerous. Are you still feeding dry?
Click to expand...
I just took his BG again. So Today AMPS was 480. +1, 421. +2, 321. +5, 221. That's an improvement, right? (I hope I am typing that out correctly...)

And yes, sorry I forgot to day, I took him off the dry food a few days ago, only FF pate or wellness grain free.
 
This morning I gave 5 (before I started this thread). Was thinking of going down to 3 tonight per your suggestion?
 
I got home at 4:30 and tested him. At +11 he was at 430...but then I found out my husband fed him a little dry food that we had left because Rod was begging for food :banghead:
 
SaraBear said:
I gave 3 last night and this morning. He was at 505 this morning before his shot :/
Click to expand...
That's OK. Hold the 3 units for 3 cycles (3 shots). If you don't see a blue number then raise it to 3.5.

Hide the dry food. If he's hungry and it's not two hours before preshot, then give low carb ff. If you really want to give some dry there's a food called Young Again Zero carb which you can buy on Youngagainpetfood.com.
 
JanetNJ said:
That's OK. Hold the 3 units for 3 cycles (3 shots). If you don't see a blue number then raise it to 3.5.

Hide the dry food. If he's hungry and it's not two hours before preshot, then give low carb ff. If you really want to give some dry there's a food called Young Again Zero carb which you can buy on Youngagainpetfood.com.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the reply. We have 4 cats---I'm going to let the others finish the dry food (mixed with wet) and Rod will only get wet food. Then they will all get wet food.
 
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