Info UK INFORMATION (Food, Insulin, Vit B12, and other 'need to know' stuff)

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My cat is on Mac, Thrive complete, Granata Pet and once a week I bake in the foil chicken breast for her. The other, non-diabetic cat is on Bozita, which is also a low carb food but a little higher in % carb than the above mentioned, 7%. Maybe you could try some of these for choice and variety. As for Lily's Kitchen, I decided to not buy their food when I heard there's carrageenan in there, it can cause gastrointestinal issues.

I have a small question. Looking for tasty chicken or turkey canned food (because my cat eats too much cattle - lamb, veal, beef), low carb and no jelly. Any recommendations? Thank you
 
Elizabeth and Bertie said:
Hi, are you testing your kitty's blood glucose at home? For a kitty already on insulin it's really important to only switch to lower carb diet if you are hometesting, can monitor the effect of the diet change on the kitty's blood glucose, and can reduce the insulin as necessary.
Reducing the carb content in the diet can reduce the blood glucose a lot in some kitties, and the insulin dose may need to be reduced also so as to avoid hypoglycemia. For a cat switching from dry food to low carb wet food the insulin dose may need to be reduced by one to two units, or even more...

If you've switched from Hill's MD to Lily's and Thrive since starting insulin, that's quite a BIG reduction in carb content.... Please do keep a close eye on your kitty. And please, if you're not already doing so, do try to learn to hometest his blood glucose at home. It's really not nearly as hard as it sounds and we can help you learn to do it. Just post on the main health forum if you'd like more info. We're here to help. :bighug:

Eliz
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Hi, thanks so much for all your feedback. It’s so appreciated!

He’s been on thrive and Lilly’s kitchen for two weeks and only started insulting yesterday. I would assume as the blood glucose curve was only conducted yesterday that his insulin levels - 1uniy twice a day - were calculated based off his current diet. Would you think this would be okay?

We’re not home testing, but I’m thinking about starting. My only concern is I don’t want to upset or hurt him! Is it painless for them?

Thanks.
 
SONICsteff said:
Hi, thanks so much for all your feedback. It’s so appreciated!

He’s been on thrive and Lilly’s kitchen for two weeks and only started insulting yesterday. I would assume as the blood glucose curve was only conducted yesterday that his insulin levels - 1uniy twice a day - were calculated based off his current diet. Would you think this would be okay?

We’re not home testing, but I’m thinking about starting. My only concern is I don’t want to upset or hurt him! Is it painless for them?

Thanks.
Click to expand...
Yes you should be ok with 1u on a lowish carb diet if a curve was only done yesterday, but we don't actually know what numbers the curve showed so it's not possible to be 100% certain. Can you ask the vet to email you a copy of the curve results? That would be very illuminating!
Do start home testing - it won't hurt him and if you do so correctly and give him treats after the test for being a good boy, he will come to associate the test with a reward and see it as a positive thing. And it will give you peace of mind knowing that a pre-shot number is actually high enough to give insulin. These are early days for you and there's a lot to learn, but once you've got your head round the basics the whole thing becomes much more manageable. What insulin are you using? I'm guessing it's Caninsulin? There's a beginners guide here that you'll probably find very useful if you haven't seen it already:

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/beginners-guide-to-caninsulin-vetsulin.186099/
 
Hoping to start home testing my cat this weekend and I noticed that some people recommend having a cream or gel to provide pain relief for their ear. Anyone got any UK recommendations?
 
Cherish4 said:
Anyone got any UK recommendations?
Click to expand...
Hi, well done for wanting to hometest!
In the US Neosoprin is used by some folks, but there is no equivalent to that in the UK (I think it has antibiotic properties, and we can't buy 'over the counter' antibiotics here).
I have heard of some UK folks using Emla cream, which is a topical anaesthetic, but its use (by people on feline diabetes forums) is not widespread. That may be because most cats don't find testing painful anyway. They may find it 'odd' at first, because it's a new thing. But there are very few nerve endings in the edge of the ear. It's not at all like us pricking one of our sensitive finger tips. My cat actually doesn't notice me pricking his ear if he's got a few crumbled treats in front of him to hoover up.

Something that is used more by folks, especially if the cat has dark ears (making the blood harder to see), is a teensy weensy smear of Vaseline on the outer edge of the ear, just enough to make the fur look a wee bit greasy. It stops the blood disappearing into the fur, and enables it to form into a nice little 'bead' that sits on top of the fur. This can make it less likely that we need to prick the ear more than once...or twice...
I used Vaseline for probably the first month that I was testing Bertie, until I realised that we just didn't seem to need it any more. The ears actually bleed more easily over time! Strange but true....

As soon as you've got enough blood on your test strip (and as soon as you have a free hand or two) it's a good idea to put a little pressure where you've pricked the ear, just for a few seconds. You can press a little bit of folded tissue or a bit of cotton wool on the ear, or just lightly pinch between finger and thumb. This stops any residual bleeding, and in theory reduces bruising. In reality, very few cats seem to have any problems from having their ears pricked.

Eliz
 
Elizabeth and Bertie said:
Hi, well done for wanting to hometest!
In the US Neosoprin is used by some folks, but there is no equivalent to that in the UK (I think it has antibiotic properties, and we can't buy 'over the counter' antibiotics here).
I have heard of some UK folks using Emla cream, which is a topical anaesthetic, but its use (by people on feline diabetes forums) is not widespread. That may be because most cats don't find testing painful anyway. They may find it 'odd' at first, because it's a new thing. But there are very few nerve endings in the edge of the ear. It's not at all like us pricking one of our sensitive finger tips. My cat actually doesn't notice me pricking his ear if he's got a few crumbled treats in front of him to hoover up.

Something that is used more by folks, especially if the cat has dark ears (making the blood harder to see), is a teensy weensy smear of Vaseline on the outer edge of the ear, just enough to make the fur look a wee bit greasy. It stops the blood disappearing into the fur, and enables it to form into a nice little 'bead' that sits on top of the fur. This can make it less likely that we need to prick the ear more than once...or twice...
I used Vaseline for probably the first month that I was testing Bertie, until I realised that we just didn't seem to need it any more. The ears actually bleed more easily over time! Strange but true....

As soon as you've got enough blood on your test strip (and as soon as you have a free hand or two) it's a good idea to put a little pressure where you've pricked the ear, just for a few seconds. You can press a little bit of folded tissue or a bit of cotton wool on the ear, or just lightly pinch between finger and thumb. This stops any residual bleeding, and in theory reduces bruising. In reality, very few cats seem to have any problems from having their ears pricked.

Eliz
Click to expand...

Thanks for the advice, I bought a small tub of Vaseline this afternoon. Just waiting for the home test kit to arrive in the next few days now.
 
I'm sure that everyone is probably already aware of this but just in case I thought I'd add that Wilko do their own version of the Hi Life freeze dried chicken breast or duck breast treats. Their packs are only £1 and you get more in them as well (17g as opposed to Hi Life's 10g).
 
Cherish4 said:
I'm sure that everyone is probably already aware of this but just in case I thought I'd add that Wilko do their own version of the Hi Life freeze dried chicken breast or duck breast treats. Their packs are only £1 and you get more in them as well (17g as opposed to Hi Life's 10g).
Click to expand...
No, didn't know that. Will add that info to the first post. Thank you very much! :cat:
 
Cherish4 said:
You're welcome! Just trying to do my bit to repay all the kindness and information that people on here have given me. :)
Click to expand...
And that's exactly what this board is all about and how it is constantly being built upon to provide an absolute treasure trove of cat knowledge. Some people have been here for years, others weeks, but the collective experiences that everyone adds all the time makes this place pretty much unique, I reckon :)
 
Diana&Tom said:
Yes do! You can also crumble one or two up and put on the top of food if a cat is having an "off" day for eating - most cats love these freeze-dried things.
Click to expand...

Just tried him with a couple to see if he'll eat them. He did but he found it a little difficult as poor thing doesn't have many teeth. I'll probably have to break them up like I've been doing with the chunks in the butcher's classic food.
 
Cherish4 said:
Just tried him with a couple to see if he'll eat them. He did but he found it a little difficult as poor thing doesn't have many teeth. I'll probably have to break them up like I've been doing with the chunks in the butcher's classic food.
Click to expand...
That's ok - some of the chunks are quite big and I think they'd need to be broken up for most cats.
 
@ Elizabeth and Bertie,

Elizabeth, do you feed your cats any Mac food? They've changed their food (cans) so now it's much higher in % carbs than before. I wanted to make sure I didn't make any mistakes in calculating so decided to ask you. I used your old spreadsheet because it has a carbs calculator.

MAC - Heart and Liver - used to be 0.4% - now 10.3 --- 10.8 protein, 7.2 fat, 0.5 fibre, 2.4 ash, 76 moisture
MAC - Duck turkey chicken - used to be 1.2% - now 7.1%
MAC - Beef and chicken hearts - 1.9% - this is the only one that remains the same, the rest are all higher
MAC - Lamb turkey - used to be 2% - now 5.8%

Bozita (packs in jelly) is also now higher, it used to be 6.1% if memory serves me well.. now it's 9.6% --- protein 7.5, fat 5, fibre 0.5, ash 2, moisture 83

Mac catfood has been the only quality truly low-carb food that my cat would eat (reluctantly but she ate it), anything in higher % carbs would push her BG up. I'm worried now because I don't know what to feed her.
 
Hi Iryna,
Vintry said:
...Mac food? They've changed their food (cans) so now it's much higher in % carbs than before.
Click to expand...
Gosh, if those carb counts have increased to that degree that is really sad! :(
A couple of things, just to double check...
Did you get the data from Zooplus or from the product label itself (Zooplus data can be a bit wonky sometimes...)?
Or could my old SS calculator - if you're using that - not be working properly for some reason (maybe the formula got corrupted somehow)?

Another member here, @hellolucy , has recently made a really good Google doc carb calculator which may be much better than my ancient SS. If you click on the link below you will get the option to open in Google drive and then save a copy.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1NOyUfaKxNa580Wnz-0c0_kRQgvlMJgnu/view

Eliz
 
@ Elizabeth,

Thank you for the link. I've input the figures and on her calculator it's only 1% less so pretty much the same. I've also checked the labels on zooplus and yes, they are accurate, they corresponf to the food you order. Then I went to my garage where I keep all the catfood (I stock up in advance), checked the labels on the cans from the recently arrived order and compared them to older ones. They look exactly the same but the % on the label are different! What a waste of money..

MAC veal and turkey - old - protein 10.6, fat 6.9, fiber 0.3, ash 1.9, moisture 80 - 1.1% on both calculators
MAC veal and turkey - new - protein 10.6, fat 7.1, fiber 0.5, ash 2.2, moisture 78 - 5.4% on new calculator, 5.7% on the old calculator

So guys, whatever you are feeding your diabetic cat, please be careful and check the labels again. Especially if you, like me have been feeding the same food for a long time and no longer bother to make sure it's still low-carb.

Elizabeth, the spreadsheet probably needs to be updated. If you need help with food label info, I can provide it from the actual cans I have at home to make sure the information is accurate. Let me know. I know a lot of people buy Bozita packs but their food is now 9.2% :( So it's not just MAC. Granata Pet's fish and liver ragout used to be 1.6% but now it's 4.6%, but they at least changed the label picture, which was enough to prompt me to check the %. I got suspicious about MAC only because my cat stopped eating it (so I assume the taste has changed too) and her BG wouldnt go down for days. Now I've figured out why.
 
Vintry said:
Elizabeth, the spreadsheet probably needs to be updated. If you need help with food label info, I can provide it from the actual cans I have at home to make sure the information is accurate.
Click to expand...
Iryna, any info you have from the cans you have at home would be great to have! Do please PM me with that and I'll update those on the list.

The food list is almost constantly in a process of being updated, I probably spend at least a couple of hours a week on it, sometimes many more, going through the brands currently on the list, and searching for new foods to add... But there are so many foods (coming onto the market, having names changed, being discontinued, having recipes changed...) that some information is inevitably out of date at any given time. So any data you can send me about specific foods where you know the data has changed would be really good to have.
Thank you so much for your help! :bighug:

Eliz
 
@Vintry @Elizabeth and Bertie
For reference I incorporated a carb-calculator spreadsheet into Dustys SS (linked below), mainly so that I could keep track of the levels in the various foods that we had available to her.
Feel free if you want to grab the sheet and use it for your own purposes.
White columns (A-H) are inputs (also column Q for any comments), blue columns are autocalculated.
Rows are then coloured based on the "% cals from carbs" value.
"Food Data (wet)" and "Food Data (dry)" operate the same, I just wanted to keep the two separate :)
Feel free if you want to grab a copy of either sheet and use it - Also thanks for the reminder, I should recheck our current food!
 
Does anyone know of any cream or ointment that I could use on Little B's back? He's been scratching at the shaved area between his shoulder blades and making it bleed. The vet isn't sure at the moment if it's just the itchiness of the hair growing back or possibly the insulin. In the meantime she's suggested using Sudacrem on it but I read online that it contains ingredients that are toxic to cats. Has anyone else used Sudacrem or knows if it's safe? If not, any other suggestions?
 
Cherish4 said:
Does anyone know of any cream or ointment that I could use on Little B's back? He's been scratching at the shaved area between his shoulder blades and making it bleed. The vet isn't sure at the moment if it's just the itchiness of the hair growing back or possibly the insulin. In the meantime she's suggested using Sudacrem on it but I read online that it contains ingredients that are toxic to cats. Has anyone else used Sudacrem or knows if it's safe? If not, any other suggestions?
Click to expand...

Hopefully you've had some sort of answer to this by now, but we (personally) tend to avoid any human creams "just in case". I was advised that a simple olive oil massage can help prevent itching, and we've actually resorted to a stretch bandage recent to try and prevent Dusty from scratching (we used 3M Vetrap which works nicely)
 
Schmill said:
Hopefully you've had some sort of answer to this by now, but we (personally) tend to avoid any human creams "just in case". I was advised that a simple olive oil massage can help prevent itching, and we've actually resorted to a stretch bandage recent to try and prevent Dusty from scratching (we used 3M Vetrap which works nicely)
Click to expand...

Hi, I got some answers on facebook but the problem's cleared up anyway. Thanks for taking the time to respond though.
 
How do you work out the percentage of calories from carbs? Tried to follow the instructions in the first post about dividing by total calories and times by 100 but where do you get the total calories from?

Trying to work it out for a food not on the list and I'm so confused.
 
Cherish4 said:
Tried to follow the instructions in the first post about dividing by total calories and times by 100 but where do you get the total calories from?
Click to expand...
Lauren, the Scheydeweb calculator (in the link) will calculate total calories. So, it's possible to start out using the Scheyderweb calculator and then just go one stage further if you want to calculate 'percentage of calories' from carbs.
Elizabeth and Bertie said:
ONLINE CARB CALCULATORS - calculating 'percentage of calories from carbs'
http://scheyderweb.com/cats/catfood.html
Using the Scheyderweb calculator: If you enter the percentages for protein, fat, ash, fibre and moisture from the food label it will calculate the calories from carbs per 100g of food.
If you want to go further and calculate the ‘percentage of calories from carbs’...you just grab a calculator and do this: Divide the calories from carbs per 100g by the total calories per 100g, and then multiply by 100.
Click to expand...

Alternatively, you can use HelloLucy's calculator which should do the entire calculation for you:
Elizabeth and Bertie said:
Alternatively.... There is a new calculator created by FDMB member 'Hellolucy' that should calculate 'percentage of calories from carbs' with ease. If you click on the link below you can open with Google sheets and save a copy for your own use.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1NOyUfaKxNa580Wnz-0c0_kRQgvlMJgnu/view
Click to expand...

If you want to do the whole calculation manually the formula is this:
From the label data (or manufacturer's website) add up the percentages for protein, fat, ash, fibre and moisture.
Deduct that total from 100% and that will give you the carb percentage of the food by weight.
Then you have percentages by weight for protein, fat, carbs, ash, fibre, and moisture.

Multiply the protein and carb %'s x 3.5
Multiply the fat % by 8.5
That will give you the calories from each of those per 100g.
Add those up to give you total calories per 100g.

Divide the 'calories from carbs' per 100g by the 'total calories' per 100g, and then multiply by 100.
That should give you the 'percentage of calories' from carbs.

Eliz
 
Last edited:
Elizabeth and Bertie said:
Lauren, the Scheydeweb calculator (in the link) will calculate total calories. So, it's possible to start out using the Scheyderweb calculator and then just go one stage further if you want to calculate 'percentage of calories' from carbs.


Alternatively, you can use HelloLucy's calculator which should do the entire calculation for you:


If you want to do the whole calculation manually the formula is this:
Add up percentages for protein, fat, ash, fibre and moisture.
Deduct that total from 100% and that will give you the carb content of the food by weight.

Multiply the protein and carb %'s x 3.5
Multiply the fat % by 8.5
That will give you the calories from each of those per 100g.
Add those up to give you total calories per 100g.

Divide the 'calories from carbs' per 100g by the 'total calories' per 100g, and then multiply by 100.
That should give you the 'percentage of calories' from carbs.

Eliz
Click to expand...

Okay thanks for the info.
 
Elizabeth and Bertie said:
Lauren, the Scheydeweb calculator (in the link) will calculate total calories. So, it's possible to start out using the Scheyderweb calculator and then just go one stage further if you want to calculate 'percentage of calories' from carbs.


Alternatively, you can use HelloLucy's calculator which should do the entire calculation for you:


If you want to do the whole calculation manually the formula is this:
Add up percentages for protein, fat, ash, fibre and moisture.
Deduct that total from 100% and that will give you the carb content of the food by weight.

Multiply the protein and carb %'s x 3.5
Multiply the fat % by 8.5
That will give you the calories from each of those per 100g.
Add those up to give you total calories per 100g.

Divide the 'calories from carbs' per 100g by the 'total calories' per 100g, and then multiply by 100.
That should give you the 'percentage of calories' from carbs.

Eliz
Click to expand...

Sorry Eliz but I can't get that google drive calculator to work on my laptop and I'm still confused by your explanation of how to do it manually. Could you give me an example at all?
 
Cherish4 said:
Sorry Eliz but I can't get that google drive calculator to work on my laptop and I'm still confused by your explanation of how to do it manually. Could you give me an example at all?
Click to expand...
Lauren, it might be simplest if you just use the Scheyderweb online calculator. It will give you a ballpark figure. Then, if you want to convert the result to a 'percentage of calories from carbs' basis just use the formula below:
Elizabeth and Bertie said:
http://scheyderweb.com/cats/catfood.html
Using the Scheyderweb calculator (link above):
If you enter the percentages for protein, fat, ash, fibre and moisture from the food label it will calculate the calories from carbs per 100g of food.
If you want to go further and calculate the ‘percentage of calories from carbs’ (how we usually compare things) you just grab a calculator and do this: Divide the calories from carbs per 100g by the total calories per 100g, and then multiply by 100.
Click to expand...
The Scheyderweb calculator uses a slightly different formula to the standard calculation (multiplies fat by 8.7 instead of the usual 8.5), but it's 'good enough' for general purposes.

Food labelling isn't that accurate anyway. And our calculations are only ever going to be, at best, 'a good guesstimate' of the values.
THE most important thing is how any food affects our own cat's blood glucose. That is what matters the most.

Eliz
 
Elizabeth and Bertie said:
Lauren, it might be simplest if you just use the Scheyderweb online calculator. It will give you a ballpark figure. Then, if you want to convert the result to a 'percentage of calories from carbs' basis just use the formula below:

The Scheyderweb calculator uses a slightly different formula to the standard calculation (multiplies fat by 8.7 instead of the usual 8.5), but it's 'good enough' for general purposes.

Food labelling isn't that accurate anyway. And our calculations are only ever going to be, at best, 'a good guesstimate' of the values.
THE most important thing is how any food affects our own cat's blood glucose. That is what matters the most.

Eliz
Click to expand...

Okay I'll just use that calculator then. Thanks for getting back to me.
 
Can anyone recommend something for loose stools?

Since I had to change Little B from Butcher's Classic to Felix, he's been having bouts of loose stools. I tried changing his food again but he won't eat anything other than Felix at the moment. So I was wondering if I could give him anything else to try and resolve the loose stools. I know that some people on here have suggested plain pumpkin to others in the past but as far as I'm aware, it's not available over here unless it's Halloween!

So any other suggestions?

( I am on a low income, so it couldn't be anything too expensive)
 
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Cherish4 said:
Can anyone recommend something for loose stools?

Since I had to change Little B from Butcher's Classic to Felix, he's been having bouts of loose stools. I tried changing his food again but he won't eat anything other than Felix at the moment. So I was wondering if I could give him anything else to try and resolve the loose stools. I know that some people on here have suggested plain pumpkin to others in the past but as far as I'm aware, it's not available over here unless it's Halloween!

So any other suggestions?

( I am on a low income, so it couldn't be anything too expensive)
Click to expand...
You could try slippery elm bark powder. It's been recommended by few here on FDMB and worked for my lil guy. I open the capsules and sprinkle a tiny bit on his food then mix it well, others make a jelly/paste by mixing it with (hot?) water. Just have a search for slippery elm bark (or SEB) here on the forum, it's quite popular :)
 
Georgiana & Perlutz said:
You could try slippery elm bark powder. It's been recommended by few here on FDMB and worked for my lil guy. I open the capsules and sprinkle a tiny bit on his food then mix it well, others make a jelly/paste by mixing it with (hot?) water. Just have a search for slippery elm bark (or SEB) here on the forum, it's quite popular :)
Click to expand...

I'll have a look thanks. I've also been told that there a couple of places I might be able to get pumpkin from so I will look for that as well. :)
 
@Elizabeth and Bertie I have read the above regarding the U40 syringes and I am still unsure.

Originally we were using Caninsulin and had the Sol Vet syringes, when we switched to Prozinc I was issued with Boehringer Ingelheim U40 Syringes, I still have loads of the Sol Vet ones left, can I use these with Prozinc?

Thank you in advance. And thank you again for the amazing information in this Sticky
 
Kate & Toby said:
Originally we were using Caninsulin and had the Sol Vet syringes, when we switched to Prozinc I was issued with Boehringer Ingelheim U40 Syringes, I still have loads of the Sol Vet ones left, can I use these with Prozinc?
Click to expand...
Hi Kate, you can use any U40 syringes with Prozinc. (Caninsulin and Prozinc are both U40 insulins and so can use the same syringes.) :)

...And thank you so much for your kind comment. That's really sweet of you. :bighug:
 
kalypso said:
Hello Elizabeth and Bertie!
Thank you a lot for the great information!
Just wondering where you got the typical analysis for leonardo cans.
Both in the site and zooplus, I get: protein 10%, fat 5%, ash 2%, fibre 0.3%, moisture 80%,
which is the same for all flavors and makes 10.9 %Kcals from carbs (using this excel https://drive.google.com/file/d/1NOyUfaKxNa580Wnz-0c0_kRQgvlMJgnu/view)
Was there a change in the recipe? Am I missing something?
Click to expand...
Hello, and thank you so much for bringing this to my attention!
Aha, yes, the data for the foods has changed, as you rightly say, and now comes out at 10.9% cals from carbs, sadly...
My guess, given the listed ingredients of the product, is the data may be wrong (it happens sometimes...)
I have now removed Leonardo cans from the UK list.

Thanks again!
Eliz
 
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Hello again Elizabeth and Bertie!
I have bought granatapet symphonie no 5, thinking it was 4,51 % Kcals from carbs but I see on your list it's 8,4 % and am alarmed!
In my calculation I use values protein 10 %, fat content 4,6 %, crude ash 2 %, raw fibre 0,4 %, moisture content 82 %, which are as stated on the can.
However, I see that you use different values, which are the same as on granatapet site: protein 10,1 %, fat content 5,3 %, crude ash 2,2 %, crude fibre 0,3 %, moisture content 80 %. I see that the cans look slightly different on the site, so I assume they changed the recipe? What a pitty! I guess I am safe with the ones I have though to assume they are 4,51 %.
 
Looking for recommendations for probiotics that are okay for diabetic cats.

Unfortunately Little B is having another bout of loose stools and pumpkin hasn't really helped this time. His vet has suggested trying him on some probiotics and the only one I really know is Fortiflora. However that is far too expensive for me so I could do with some other suggestions. I have found some by simply supplements (see link below) but I don't know if all probiotics are suitable for a cat with his condition so I thought I'd check here.

This is one I have found:

https://www.simplysupplements.co.uk/vitapaws/cat-supplements/digestiaid-plus-cats
 
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