Alpha Trak 2 strips vs Freestyle Lite or Freestyle Insulinx test strips

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MrWorf'sMom hi tonight is the first time I got a BG of 203 for Tyler at 9 pm since he's been off insulin, you have seen what his BG has been, do you think I should give him any insulin at all, like 0.25 or just don't give him anything tonight
 
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Is that a fasting reading (no food in the last couple of hours?) or did the little monkey get into something he shouldn't have, like the higher carb dry food?
 
MrWorfMen's Mom said:
Is that a fasting reading (no food in the last couple of hours?) or did the little monkey get into something he shouldn't have, like the higher carb dry food?
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You are too funny the little monkey, I gave him a little bit of Dr Elseys dry , very little I would say around 15 pieces at 7 pm and tested at 9m What do you think
 
Well, then this bares watching. How about feeding him his normal dinner, no insulin and retesting in 3 hours to see if his BG has fallen at all. It should be lower by then if his pancreas is working. If BG is still up, then I think Tyler likely still needs a little insulin but it can wait till tomorrow AM. With the lower numbers he's had, best to give him insulin when you can monitor him and overnight is not a good time for that.
 
MrWorfMen's Mom said:
Well, then this bares watching. How about feeding him his normal dinner, no insulin and retesting in 3 hours to see if his BG has fallen at all. It should be lower by then if his pancreas is working. If BG is still up, then I think Tyler likely still needs a little insulin but it can wait till tomorrow AM. With the lower numbers he's had, best to give him insulin when you can monitor him and overnight is not a good time for that.
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He's done eating his FF , I'll retest in 3 hrs and see what it is, then wait till 9 am tomorrow and test, Thanks so much The last BG I showed you was on Sat 4-27-19
9 am- 114
+11-1/2- 127

Here is what is for Sunday 4-28-19
9am- 159
9pm- 131

Monday 4-29-19
9am- 146
9pm- 135

Tuesday 4-30-19
9am- 120
9pm - 203
All without insulin
I swear, with all the information you have given me and all your knowledge you can be a vet
 
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I know I confused you with the instructions for the drop dose the other night. Is it clear now how to draw up a tiny drop dose? Maybe practice with an old used syringe and water. I'd be hesitant to give him 0.25u and think a drop dose would be a better place to start with him right now.
 
MrWorfMen's Mom said:
I know I confused you with the instructions for the drop dose the other night. Is it clear now how to draw up a tiny drop dose? Maybe practice with an old used syringe and water. I'd be hesitant to give him 0.25u and think a drop dose would be a better place to start with him right now.
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Yes I think I got it about the drop dose, I would take the syringe and push in the plunger as hard as I can, then stick it in the vial and then let go of the plunger and remove the needle from the vial.then give him the shot and keep my finger on the plunger when I withdraw it, does it sound like I got it right. So I will wait till tomorrow morning when I test him at 9 am and see what it is, if it's still around 203 is then when I should try the drop dose I'll let you know tomorrow morning what it is . Thank you
Ok just tested him 4 hours later after his 9pm BG was 203
Tuesday 4-30-19
9 pm - 203
+4- 124 (1:00 am) Wednesday
So that was good, so I assume his pancreas is working .
Thank you so much for your advice
 
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Yes that BG drop is definitely good news and also means it's going to be very important to monitor Tyler closely if you give him any insulin in the days to come. He's only got a little way to drop to ideal numbers and that reinforces to me that anything over a drop may very well be too much. If he's over 200 again and you can monitor, you can try the drop dose to see if his numbers will come down a tiny bit more. Sounds like you've got the drop dose drawing down pat!
 
MrWorfMen's Mom said:
Yes that BG drop is definitely good news and also means it's going to be very important to monitor Tyler closely if you give him any insulin in the days to come. He's only got a little way to drop to ideal numbers and that reinforces to me that anything over a drop may very well be too much. If he's over 200 again and you can monitor, you can try the drop dose to see if his numbers will come down a tiny bit more. Sounds like you've got the drop dose drawing down pat!
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Hi I don't know if you miss understood me but I didn't give Tyler any insulin at all, his BG dropped on his own , or do you mean if it's ever over 200 again then try the drop and test him again 3 or 4 hrs later to see how low it went. This morning at 9 am his BG was 185 , so when I test him at 9 pm tonight I'll see what it is
 
I understood and I know you didn't give him any insulin.:) I am suggesting that IF his BG is above 200, you could try the drop dose but only if you can monitor him to at least 4 hours and possibly 6 hours post shot. His pancreas seems to be working but not as strongly as we'd like to see. We also don't want him dropping too low so it's a fine line right now about when to dose and how much insulin to give and important to monitor if insulin is given.
 
MrWorfMen's Mom said:
I understood and I know you didn't give him any insulin.:) I am suggesting that IF his BG is above 200, you could try the drop dose but only if you can monitor him to at least 4 hours and possibly 6 hours post shot. His pancreas seems to be working but not as strongly as we'd like to see. We also don't want him dropping too low so it's a fine line right now about when to dose and how much insulin to give and important to monitor if insulin is given.
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Oh ok got it, if I ever have to give him the drop dose, I should check him 4 hours after the drop dose and 2 hours after that just to make sure it doesn't go too low , what would you say too low is where I might have to feed him asap or give any karo
 
Mamakin said:
I should check him 4 hours after the drop dose and 2 hours after that
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Not exactly.
If you give Tyler insulin, I would suggest checking him 2 hours post shot to see what he's doing (dropping BG or holding steady). Then depending on what that reading is you decide when to test again. If he's holding steady, check again around +3. If he is dropping, you give him some food and check again in 15 -30 minutes depending on how much he has dropped. Most cats reach nadir (peak insulin action between +3 and +6 with Vetsulin so monitoring according to the tests you get in that first 6 hours is the key to keeping him safe and he calls the shots based on what his readings are.

The key is to not let Tyler go below a safe BG and with Vetsulin it's preferable to keep him at 80-90 at minimum even though he is in no danger of hypo unless he starts to drop below 68.
 
MrWorfMen's Mom said:
Not exactly.
If you give Tyler insulin, I would suggest checking him 2 hours post shot to see what he's doing (dropping BG or holding steady). Then depending on what that reading is you decide when to test again. If he's holding steady, check again around +3. If he is dropping, you give him some food and check again in 15 -30 minutes depending on how much he has dropped. Most cats reach nadir (peak insulin action between +3 and +6 with Vetsulin so monitoring according to the tests you get in that first 6 hours is the key to keeping him safe and he calls the shots based on what his readings are.

The key is to not let Tyler go below a safe BG and with Vetsulin it's preferable to keep him at 80-90 at minimum even though he is in no danger of hypo unless he starts to drop below 68.
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Sorry I misunderstood, I'm forgetting we use the +2, +3, +4 etc Got it now, boy this is some job controlling their BG, but I think I'm getting the hang of it now, thanks to you!
 
Just keep monitoring Tyler. While he's still a tad high, his pancreas appears to be doing some work and he is staying below renal threshold. How is his behaviour/demeanour these days? Does he seem to be feeling better?
 
MrWorfMen's Mom said:
Just keep monitoring Tyler. While he's still a tad high, his pancreas appears to be doing some work and he is staying below renal threshold. How is his behaviour/demeanour these days? Does he seem to be feeling better?
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Hey, how are you, his behavior has been fine, playing, bothering his brother lol, I just tested him this morning
5-2-19
9:00 am- 177. I wish it was lower like it was a week ago or so This might be the dumbest question you're heard, my vet never explained what the pancreas does and what it has to do with insulin. I just googled it, so when you say his pancreas seems to be doing it's job
So the pancreas produces the hormone insulin and secretes it into the bloodstream where it regulates the body's glucose or sugar level, So let's say after I test him in the morning like I did and it was 177, and then test him at +2 and it drops on it's own without any insulin, what exactly is the pancreas doing, is it releasing insulin so that Tyler's BG drops on it's own without insulin?
 
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You got it. Insulin acts like a key that opens the cells to allow the glucose to enter and fuel the body's cells. Without enough insulin, the food kitty intakes will be broken down into glucose and just keep circulating in the bloodstream instead of being used by the cells as it should be. So if kitty eats and BG falls when no insulin shot has been given, we know the pancreas has released extra insulin to deal with the glucose from the meal that was recently eaten. The pancreas regulates the amount of insulin based on the body's needs.

To get those pre-shot numbers down, you might consider an auto food dispenser set to feed Tyler around +8 or +9. That would prompt his pancreas to release some insulin and hopefully push his BG down.
 
MrWorfMen's Mom said:
You got it. Insulin acts like a key that opens the cells to allow the glucose to enter and fuel the body's cells. Without enough insulin, the food kitty intakes will be broken down into glucose and just keep circulating in the bloodstream instead of being used by the cells as it should be. So if kitty eats and BG falls when no insulin shot has been given, we know the pancreas has released extra insulin to deal with the glucose from the meal that was recently eaten. The pancreas regulates the amount of insulin based on the body's needs.

To get those pre-shot numbers down, you might consider an auto food dispenser set to feed Tyler around +8 or +9. That would prompt his pancreas to release some insulin and hopefully push his BG down.
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Ok thanks for explaining it to me so what you are suggesting is that if I test him at 9 am and then give him some food at +8 which would be 5 pm, so that when I test him at 9 pm I might get a lower BG reading
 
MrWorfMen's Mom said:
Exactly. :D
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Hi well just tested Tyler at 9 pm and now is BG was 205 just fed him his FF , he didn't want to eat anything at 5 pm , Wondering if I should test him in 4 hrs like I did the other night when his BG was 203, then it did drop to 124, just disappointed it's up there again. If I do the drop dose it will be hard to monitor him through the night like you said when his BG was 203. Maybe I should test him again in 3 hrs instead of 4
 
You can try testing again in 3 or 4 hours to see if his BG comes down, but it looks like his BG is starting to head up a bit so if he's still up tomorrow, I think it's time to give him a little bit of insulin to see if that will bring those numbers down.
 
MrWorfMen's Mom said:
You can try testing again in 3 or 4 hours to see if his BG comes down, but it looks like his BG is starting to head up a bit so if he's still up tomorrow, I think it's time to give him a little bit of insulin to see if that will bring those numbers down.
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Ok thanks so much for your help I truly appreciate it, if it's still over 200 tomorrow morning I will try the drop dose
 
MrWorf'sMom Hi Linda, First of all I tried to practice doing the drop dose with the U-40 syringe, I did exactly what you said and no insulin was in the syringe at all, so I then put the syringe in the vial and pulled back on the syringe and while the syringe was still in the vial I pushed the insulin back into the vial almost to the top of the syringe and then took it out and squirted it onto my hand to see how much came out, it was just a tiny little bit, like just a drop of water. Now going back to
5-2-19
9 am - 177
9om- 205
+4 134

5-3-19
9:30 am 171
9:30. pm - 210 not going to give any insulin , I don't want to do the drop dose , how I explained I had to do it, I hope that would be alright to do it the way I told you I had to do to be able to get any insulin in the syringe because I don't want to have to stay up until 3:30 in the morning testing him.
I'm going to at least test him at
+ 3- 160 (12:30 am)
+ 6 - 184 (3:30 am) not to good right?

to see if it dropped. I wish if his BG was over 200 it would be in the morning so that I could give him the small dose and then monitor him for 6 hrs.
Do you think that's a good idea, What if I get a BG of 171 and as high as 190 in the morning do you think I should try the small dose

Well this morning Tyler was
5-4-19
10.30 am- 246 usually test at 9:00 am but I fell back asleep , I'm sure testing late has
anything to do with the high BG.
I don't know how much insulin to give ? the drop dose or more?
 
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Ok. How about this? Make some coloured water (food colour, onion skins... whatever will put some colour into the water will do). Get a used syringe and draw up the smallest dose of the coloured water.
If your syringes have half unit markings, draw up a dose half way between the half and zero mark on the syringe. This should give you about 0.25u. Now twist the plunger to let a drop or two out of the syringe. We'll call it a skinny 0.25u dose for lack of a better or more accurate name. Use this colour water syringe as a sample for drawing up the insulin going forward. This might be slightly more than a drop but it's still a pretty small dose.

When you draw up the insulin, don't push insulin back into the vial as that can contaminate it or cause some disruption of the insulin molecules and is not recommended. Use the coloured water syringe for comparison. This way you can get consistent dosing and that is more important than being precise with the amount.

Only shoot if you can monitor Tyler and he is over 200. Make sure you have plenty of test strips, higher carb food preferably wet rather than dry, some honey/karo/syrup just as extra insurance.

Sorry for the delay getting back to you. I obviously missed the alert this morning.
 
MrWorfMen's Mom said:
Ok. How about this? Make some coloured water (food colour, onion skins... whatever will put some colour into the water will do). Get a used syringe and draw up the smallest dose of the coloured water.
If your syringes have half unit markings, draw up a dose half way between the half and zero mark on the syringe. This should give you about 0.25u. Now twist the plunger to let a drop or two out of the syringe. We'll call it a skinny 0.25u dose for lack of a better or more accurate name. Use this colour water syringe as a sample for drawing up the insulin going forward. This might be slightly more than a drop but it's still a pretty small dose.

When you draw up the insulin, don't push insulin back into the vial as that can contaminate it or cause some disruption of the insulin molecules and is not recommended. Use the coloured water syringe for comparison. This way you can get consistent dosing and that is more important than being precise with the amount.

Only shoot if you can monitor Tyler and he is over 200. Make sure you have plenty of test strips, higher carb food preferably wet rather than dry, some honey/karo/syrup just as extra insurance.

Sorry for the delay getting back to you. I obviously missed the alert this morning.
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No problem, well before I saw this I already gave him a small dose at he ate, hopefully it was around 0.25 units I will be able to test him all day would you say every 2 hrs , if I don't see it drop then I know I didn't draw enough insulin. The U-40 syringe doesn't have a marking for a half mark, trying to explain on the very top of the syringe is a black line. ____
___ .1 unit
It looks like that so I went in between the top line and the next line guess the lines didn't come out correctly I'll try again._____
_____1 u .just picture the top line and right underneath that line is the next line stating 1 u
 
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Ok as long as you can consistently dose, do what works for you. You can test every 2 hours but once he gets to +6 post shot, if he hasn't moved much, then I think you can cut back and maybe grab just one more test between +6 and pre-shot.
 
MrWorfMen's Mom said:
Ok as long as you can consistently dose, do what works for you. You can test every 2 hours but once he gets to +6 post shot, if he hasn't moved much, then I think you can cut back and maybe grab just one more test between +6 and pre-shot.
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Ok when you say once he gets to +6 post shot tf he hasn't moved much ( do you mean if his BG stays at 246 or drops a little then I can cut back on testing every 2 hours and then just test one more time between +6 and pre shot. If it doesn't drop enough should I give a little more insulin at 9 pm
 
Yes. If Tyler's BG isn't moving much by +6 continuing to test him every 2 hours won't show much because most cats are at or past nadir by +6 on Vetsulin. If his BG is still up tonight, then yes you could give him another small dose but let's see what he does today first.
 
MrWorfMen's Mom said:
Yes. If Tyler's BG isn't moving much by +6 continuing to test him every 2 hours won't show much because most cats are at or past nadir by +6 on Vetsulin. If his BG is still up tonight, then yes you could give him another small dose but let's see what he does today first.
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Ok thank you, I'll post what happens today to also see if I gave him enough insulin
 
MrWorf'sMom , well here are Tyler's results
5-4-19
10:30 am 246. Gave him a small dose like I previously posted
+2 161
+4 155
+6 158
+9 203
I'm going to test him at 10:00 pm tonight which was
+ 11-1/2- 208
What would you say I should give him again
I know after the shot I will have to test him again , does it have to be every 2 hours up to +6 and +7. I want to get him back to his testing schedule 9 am and 9 pm. I could shoot myself for shutting the alarm off and falling back asleep and then testing him at 10:30 am
 
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MrWorfMen's Mom said:
Yes. If Tyler's BG isn't moving much by +6 continuing to test him every 2 hours won't show much because most cats are at or past nadir by +6 on Vetsulin. If his BG is still up tonight, then yes you could give him another small dose but let's see what he does today first.
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Just posted Tyler's results above.
 
Interesting. I take it you tried the same dose again tonight. Almost looks like Tyler is a bit higher rather than lower but that might just be a normal reaction to the return to insulin right now. Let's see where he is tomorrow AM.
 
MrWorfMen's Mom said:
Interesting. I take it you tried the same dose again tonight. Almost looks like Tyler is a bit higher rather than lower but that might just be a normal reaction to the return to insulin right now. Let's see where he is tomorrow AM.
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Yes I gave him the same dose tonight, do you think there is any reason to test him tonight,why would the return of insulin do that. I feel like I should know some of this stuff already, I feel awful evertime I have to ask you something
 
Mamakin said:
Yes I gave him the same dose tonight, do you think there is any reason to test him tonight,why would the return of insulin do that. I feel like I should know some of this stuff already, I feel awful evertime I have to ask you something
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The syringe does not have half markings, When I practiced with water and try to get it where I think 0.25 should be and then push on the plunger hardly any comes out, the plunger is like it's fully depressed. So I really can't be sure if Tyler is getting enough, or even 0.25 u. It's hard to explain to you. But tomorrow I'll get some food coloring and try again and twist the plunger to see if any at all comes out, so just turning the plunger will make some come out
 
Yes, gently turning the plunger will likely push some water out. It's hard to explain. You jsut have to play with it a bit till you figure out how to get a drop at a time out of the needle. You can get syringes with half unit markings and perhaps that is something you should consider as it makes it far easier to see what you are doing... well as easy as it can be anyway because those small doses are difficult to see. I believe however that you need a prescription in New Jersey for syringes. Would your vet be willing to provide you with one?

ETA - yes I would still test Tyler. The more data you get the easier it is to figure out how to best treat him.
 
MrWorfMen's Mom said:
Yes, gently turning the plunger will likely push some water out. It's hard to explain. You jsut have to play with it a bit till you figure out how to get a drop at a time out of the needle. You can get syringes with half unit markings and perhaps that is something you should consider as it makes it far easier to see what you are doing... well as easy as it can be anyway because those small doses are difficult to see. I believe however that you need a prescription in New Jersey for syringes. Would your vet be willing to provide you with one?

ETA - yes I would still test Tyler. The more data you get the easier it is to figure out how to best treat him.
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I'll ask my vet about the syringes, and I will test Tyler as long as I can tonight, as long as I can keep my eyes open lol. Thanks for all your help, I'll post his BG from tonight tomorrow morning. Thanks again
 
MrWorfMen'sMom Hi Linda here is Tyler's BG from last night with the drop dose
Saturday 5-4-19
10:00 pm- 208
+3- 159 (1:00am)
+6- 162 (4:00am)

Tested him this morning 5-5-19
9:00 am- 229
Just fed him his FF will be ready to shoot at 10:00 am
I guess it seems like the 0.25 u isn't making it drop that much at all
What do you think I should give him this morning
 
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You could try 0.5u but test at +2, +3 and +6 at least. If he has dropped a fair bit at +2 or +3 (100 points or more), feed him a snack and then test again at +3 or +4. If he is still dropping keep testing and steer him with food in small amounts like a tsp at a time. You can give him a bit higher carb also if needed or add a 1/2 tsp of honey or karo to LC food. Don't go to high carb unless he gets down to 90 or less. You really don't want him going below 90 so your goal is to keep him in the high 90's or low 100's.

I will be out this afternoon so if he should start dropping fast and you need assistance, post for help on the Health forum (you can add a 911 on the title here but only if you need help to keep Tyler safe) and someone can give you a hand. I should be back by the time the night shot is due.
 
MrWorfMen's Mom said:
You could try 0.5u but test at +2, +3 and +6 at least. If he has dropped a fair bit at +2 or +3 (100 points or more), feed him a snack and then test again at +3 or +4. If he is still dropping keep testing and steer him with food in small amounts like a tsp at a time. You can give him a bit higher carb also if needed or add a 1/2 tsp of honey or karo to LC food. Don't go to high carb unless he gets down to 90 or less. You really don't want him going below 90 so your goal is to keep him in the high 90's or low 100's.

I will be out this afternoon so if he should start dropping fast and you need assistance, post for help on the Health forum (you can add a 911 on the title here but only if you need help to keep Tyler safe) and someone can give you a hand. I should be back by the time the night shot is due.
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Ok, one question, you had talked about the dark green column on the spreadsheets I looked and it says 68-99 is that what people want to see without giving any insulin and then you had said. Normal range on a pet meter is considered to be 68 to 150 in this community. I've seen numbers start at 72 and go as high as 175 depending on the animal lab being used as a reference. Is this BG with or without giving any insulin, I just so confused, So when you get a pre shot BG that is under 200 I know that you don't shoot, don't know why I'm getting so confused right now, I think what I'm trying to ask is when giving any amount of insulin what BG am I looking for to be happy with between what 2 BG numbers
 
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A non diabetic cat is considered normal between 68 and 175 depending on the lab reference. One reference is 68 to 150 while another lab says 70 to 175. Really doesn't matter because your goal is to get Tyler into the lower part of that range without going too low. Because you are giving insulin from an external source and his pancreas is not regulating his insulin as a non diabetic would, you don't want his BG going too low because you then have to intervene to keep him safe. So while 68 is normal and not dangerous to his health, it is lower than you want him to go when he has received an insulin shot. I'm suggesting 90 because of the insulin being given. You don't give insulin with a BG under 200 because Vetsulin can cause sharp dramatic drops in BG so giving insulin below a BG of 200 could cause Tyler to drop to lower than safe readings. Is that clearer?
 
MrWorfMen's Mom said:
A non diabetic cat is considered normal between 68 and 175 depending on the lab reference. One reference is 68 to 150 while another lab says 70 to 175. Really doesn't matter because your goal is to get Tyler into the lower part of that range without going too low. Because you are giving insulin from an external source and his pancreas is not regulating his insulin as a non diabetic would, you don't want his BG going too low because you then have to intervene to keep him safe. So while 68 is normal and not dangerous to his health, it is lower than you want him to go when he has received an insulin shot. I'm suggesting 90 because of the insulin being given. You don't give insulin with a BG under 200 because Vetsulin can cause sharp dramatic drops in BG so giving insulin below a BG of 200 could cause Tyler to drop to lower than safe readings. Is that clearer?
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Yes I think I pretty much understand, my goal is to keep him in the high 90's or low 100's when giving insulin
 
MrWorfMen'sMom Hi Linda. Here is what Tyler's BG giving the 0.5 u
Saturday 5-5-19
9:00 am - 229
+2 - 165 (11:00am)
+3-1/2 - 142 (12:30pm)
+6 - 227 (3:00 pm)
+9 - 189 (6:00 pm)

Saturday 5-5-19
9:00 pm - 196
Feed him his FF and plan to shoot at 9:45 pm
What do you think
I don't know what just made me think of this when I test him at 9:00am or 9:00 pm and then feed him, I wait about 25-30 minutes after he's finished eating and then I shoot,
Now when you want to start to test at +2 or +3 do you count the 2 hrs starting at 9:00 am , or do you start +2 at the time you give the insulin. I hope you understand what I mean
For example
Test at 9:00 am
+2 would be at 11:00 am

Or when you test at 9:00 am
Then feed, wait 30 minutes
Shoot at 9:30 am
And do +2 using the shoot time which would be 11:30 am
Do you understand what I mean lol

I'm doing the first example
Test at 9:00 pm
+2 would be at 11:00 am
 
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Well Tyler is right on the edge tonight. I think you'd be fine giving him the same dose tonight but only if you can test a bit into the night cycle meaning basically the same routine as today. He didn't drop as much as I expected he might today but our kitties often go lower at night so it's really up to you. You could try to skinny up the dose a bit by twisting the plunger to let out an extra couple of drops or if sleep is much needed, you can skip tonight. None of us can be on duty 24 hours a day every day and only you know whether you are up for monitoring tonight.
 
MrWorfMen's Mom said:
Well Tyler is right on the edge tonight. I think you'd be fine giving him the same dose tonight but only if you can test a bit into the night cycle meaning basically the same routine as today. He didn't drop as much as I expected he might today but our kitties often go lower at night so it's really up to you. You could try to skinny up the dose a bit by twisting the plunger to let out an extra couple of drops or if sleep is much needed, you can skip tonight. None of us can be on duty 24 hours a day every day and only you know whether you are up for monitoring tonight.
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You mean do the 0.5 then twist the plunger, I edited my post with a dumb question, I don't know why I thought of it when testing, could you please take another look
 
Oh I see. The +2 would be 2 hours after the shot is given. And yes, draw up the 0.5u and then twist the plunger to push out a couple of drops before you give the shot.
 
So what I should be doing is
MrWorfMen's Mom said:
Don't worry about it. Close enough. Now you know for the future. No harm done. ;)
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Ok just to be sure I test at
9:00 am
Then I feed him and when he's done eating I then wait about 30 minutes
Then shoot at 9:30 am
So +2 would be 11:30 am
+4 would be 1:30 pm
+6 would be. 3:30 pm
 
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