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Trick&Christmas

Trick&Christmas

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Hello!

My kitty was diagnosed diabetic in January, but a recent google search just got me to this forum. (My kitty sometimes has irritation at his injection sites - that's how I found this place). This has opened me up to a whole new world of information. I have two cats. My diabetic cat's name is Trick. I found him in my apartment complex parking lot in November and no one claimed him so he became mine. The vet believes he is about 8. My other kitty is Christmas, I have had her almost my whole life and she is 16 1/2. Christmas has no health issues.

I have always fed a mixture of soft and hard food, but after researching some here I want to switch to canned only or cooked, and it would be easiest for me to do this for both of them (or else they get jealous if I treat them differently). I usually feed canned B.F.F weruva and Blue Buffalo Wilderness, and for dry food I feed Redford. The canned food is twice a day, this is easiest for my school schedule, and I free feed dry food.

What I am understanding is that I need to learn how to test his glucose levels at home and adjust myself, especially before I change his diet. His glucose levels were extremely high when he was diagnosed (above 600) and are still peaking above 500 (although not going higher than 600). I had asked the vet if I could glucose test at home and he told me not to and just to take him in so they can do glucose curves. I have some questions on this. How can I do this myself and continue to work with the vet? How do I adjust his dose myself? Currently, he is on 6 units of vetsulin twice daily.

That feels like a lot of information, but I do have a few more questions... Does anyone have recommendations for the most cost effective way to transition my kitties diets to either canned food only or for preparing it myself? I am a grad student making ~800 a month and the vet bills have me struggling, and canned food is more expensive than dry food. I am willing to struggle for a bit as long as he is getting the best care I can give him, and after a year I will graduate, work, and be in a better situation.

One more thing.. Trick has thrown up blood before and after taking him in, he was diagnosed with ulcers. I got those under control working with the vet, but I'm worried about stressing him out. He narrowly avoided being hospitalized and I'm worried this could happen again. What are the best ways I can keep him low stress with all the poking and proding? I usually give him treats while I give him insulin, does this work for people with glucose testing too? And on that note..I need to find healthier treats as well..I usually do greenies

Okay, this has clearly been on my mind awhile.. That is a lot of information, I'm a bit overwhelmed. However, I'm working from home and my research is stalled due to the quarantine, so what better time to get on top of this? Thanks for your time
 
Welcome!

More experienced folks will chime in to answer your questions. You can and should test a home and you can also do the curve at home yourself which will give you better data since cats are super stressed at the vet resulting in higher than normal BG numbers. Folks here use human meters, no need to get the super expensive pet one, like ReliOn from Walmart and freestyle. The strips are also much cheaper and you’ll go through it fast. I use freestyle but just bought ReliOn at Walmart as a backup and I spent about $43 for meter, 100 strips, 100 lancets and 100 syringes.
Hang on I’ll look for some links for you to start reading about setting up your signature, like I have, and your spreadsheet for when you start testing. There are also lots of tips for testing that are very helpful. I was a nervous wreck about it at first but now I’m doing it consistently 3-4 times a day. You’ll feel more in control of your cats well being and I can’t imagine your vet will oppose to it. The other thing is here it’s advised you increase or decrease the dose by .25 u at a time. But don’t worry about that right now.
Welcome again and I love your kitties names! What’s yours? :bighug:
 
Trick&Christmas said:
Hello!

My kitty was diagnosed diabetic in January, but a recent google search just got me to this forum. (My kitty sometimes has irritation at his injection sites - that's how I found this place). This has opened me up to a whole new world of information. I have two cats. My diabetic cat's name is Trick. I found him in my apartment complex parking lot in November and no one claimed him so he became mine. The vet believes he is about 8. My other kitty is Christmas, I have had her almost my whole life and she is 16 1/2. Christmas has no health issues.

I have always fed a mixture of soft and hard food, but after researching some here I want to switch to canned only or cooked, and it would be easiest for me to do this for both of them (or else they get jealous if I treat them differently). I usually feed canned B.F.F weruva and Blue Buffalo Wilderness, and for dry food I feed Redford. The canned food is twice a day, this is easiest for my school schedule, and I free feed dry food.

What I am understanding is that I need to learn how to test his glucose levels at home and adjust myself, especially before I change his diet. His glucose levels were extremely high when he was diagnosed (above 600) and are still peaking above 500 (although not going higher than 600). I had asked the vet if I could glucose test at home and he told me not to and just to take him in so they can do glucose curves. I have some questions on this. How can I do this myself and continue to work with the vet? How do I adjust his dose myself? Currently, he is on 6 units of vetsulin twice daily.

That feels like a lot of information, but I do have a few more questions... Does anyone have recommendations for the most cost effective way to transition my kitties diets to either canned food only or for preparing it myself? I am a grad student making ~800 a month and the vet bills have me struggling, and canned food is more expensive than dry food. I am willing to struggle for a bit as long as he is getting the best care I can give him, and after a year I will graduate, work, and be in a better situation.

One more thing.. Trick has thrown up blood before and after taking him in, he was diagnosed with ulcers. I got those under control working with the vet, but I'm worried about stressing him out. He narrowly avoided being hospitalized and I'm worried this could happen again. What are the best ways I can keep him low stress with all the poking and proding? I usually give him treats while I give him insulin, does this work for people with glucose testing too? And on that note..I need to find healthier treats as well..I usually do greenies

Okay, this has clearly been on my mind awhile.. That is a lot of information, I'm a bit overwhelmed. However, I'm working from home and my research is stalled due to the quarantine, so what better time to get on top of this? Thanks for your time
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Two more things. Fancy feast pate is relatively affordable and it’s what most people here feed their cats. It’s lower in carbs than most.
Yes! You absolutely give them a treat after testing for positive reinforcement. I also followed a tip from someone here about singing while you test. It calms kitty but also you! My biggest tip about testing is use a flashlight to see what you’re doing and the spot in the ear you’re aiming at.i for a small pocket one and I hold it in my mouth so I can see.
I’ll be back hang on :)
 
My best advice for working with your Vet is just that. Most vets believe their clients cant or wont monitor at home. That is something you should tell your vet. You WANT to do this. It will make everything SO much easier for you, your vet AND your kitteth! Tell them you want a hands on treatment. I think maybe then your Vet will agree. You can even send him here if hes willing to check us out.
 
:)Welcome to the forum! I know you will question this but I know from experience. My girl was on vetsulin at first & I was advised to give 5 units. I was just beginning on the forum & everyone nicely said... we start with 1 unit & go up if needed. That was way too much, the 5 units & we ended up at the emergency vet clinic. Please please learn about hypos on the tabs in Main Forum. Baby never needed more than 1.5 units to keep her blood sugar in control. I’m not trying to scare you, trying to help you. I found a new vet that couldn’t believe they advised that high a dose. Stay calm & you will get this all under control in no time. Yes just sing!
 
Im also new to this site, well since March...These people are amazing, catinfo.org https://catinfo.org/feline-diabetes/ is a great site and it will guide you on food choices.....I use Friskies, the lower carb food for Brady my sugar baby.....He was on a combination of Friskies and dry...NO MORE DRY....I also use the human brand of home testing, Relion Prime from Walmart...Its cheap and the test strips are cheap....Trust me the people here will help you tremendously, being new I wish I could offer you assistance but im still learning myself. Vets don't recommend home testing but to be honest its a lifesaver, it gives you and the people here a wealth of information to help you make adjustments. Your kitty will adapt to all of this in time. Treats really help during insulin shots and testing.
 
Oops I probably should have mentioned my name! I'm Victoria :D

Alright, I ordered the ReliOn glucose monitor, lancets, and test strips and I got a lancet pen as well. That'll be here Saturday so I can start getting a handle on that. I take it after I get comfortable testing his blood sugar I'll be good to start adjusting his diet slowly.

He's been on vetsulin since late January and we started with two units twice a day. He's been at the vet every 2-3 weeks until late March when the quarantine situation started, so his dose has been increased after his glucose curvings. However they did increase it by two at a time. I'll post in the vetsulin forum and seek advice.

Thanks for the help getting the glucose monitoring set up! That is probably the most confusing thing to me. I also found the thread with videos showing how to do that, and I feel a bit better about it. Next time we're at the vet I'll discuss monitoring at home.

My cats typically prefer gravies over pates, but I found the cat food chart and I see those typically have more carbs. Maybe I can add chicken broth to help transition them. This seems like it's going to be a journey but I'm a dedicated cat mom, so here goes :cat: I'm really glad I found this place
 
Trick&Christmas said:
Oops I probably should have mentioned my name! I'm Victoria :D

Alright, I ordered the ReliOn glucose monitor, lancets, and test strips and I got a lancet pen as well. That'll be here Saturday so I can start getting a handle on that. I take it after I get comfortable testing his blood sugar I'll be good to start adjusting his diet slowly.

He's been on vetsulin since late January and we started with two units twice a day. He's been at the vet every 2-3 weeks until late March when the quarantine situation started, so his dose has been increased after his glucose curvings. However they did increase it by two at a time. I'll post in the vetsulin forum and seek advice.

Thanks for the help getting the glucose monitoring set up! That is probably the most confusing thing to me. I also found the thread with videos showing how to do that, and I feel a bit better about it. Next time we're at the vet I'll discuss monitoring at home.

My cats typically prefer gravies over pates, but I found the cat food chart and I see those typically have more carbs. Maybe I can add chicken broth to help transition them. This seems like it's going to be a journey but I'm a dedicated cat mom, so here goes :cat: I'm really glad I found this place
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And we are really glad you found us Victoria! Broth is always a good thing to add for transition. GOOD JOB!!!
 
Trick&Christmas said:
Oops I probably should have mentioned my name! I'm Victoria :D

Alright, I ordered the ReliOn glucose monitor, lancets, and test strips and I got a lancet pen as well. That'll be here Saturday so I can start getting a handle on that. I take it after I get comfortable testing his blood sugar I'll be good to start adjusting his diet slowly.

He's been on vetsulin since late January and we started with two units twice a day. He's been at the vet every 2-3 weeks until late March when the quarantine situation started, so his dose has been increased after his glucose curvings. However they did increase it by two at a time. I'll post in the vetsulin forum and seek advice.

Thanks for the help getting the glucose monitoring set up! That is probably the most confusing thing to me. I also found the thread with videos showing how to do that, and I feel a bit better about it. Next time we're at the vet I'll discuss monitoring at home.

My cats typically prefer gravies over pates, but I found the cat food chart and I see those typically have more carbs. Maybe I can add chicken broth to help transition them. This seems like it's going to be a journey but I'm a dedicated cat mom, so here goes :cat: I'm really glad I found this place
Click to expand...

Hi Victoria,

Congrats on getting all this done so fast! You’ll be up and running in no time and you can get your ss set up for Saturday so we can all see it :)

You may have already found/read these, but adding some helpful links for ya! And this ear diagram really made all the difference in testing for me. Ask questions as you go and experiment with the lancet versus the pen. The pen intimidated me to be honest. I also didn’t like not seeing the needle go in. Anyway, enjoy:

Some lancet devices are noisier than others. If yours is, try clicking it around her ears, to get her used to the noise.
Some people have arthritis in their hands or bigger fingers and find holding the tiny lancet difficult.

Lancet goes in at an angle to the ear, bevel side up.
Lancet device is placed flat against the ear, outer edge.
Both need some sort of firm backing on the opposite side of the ear to press against. (Do not recommend only your finger). Lots of people use a small piece of tissue or a cotton ball to back up the poke site.

Aim for the 'sweet spot'.

Testing
We all know the basics:
  • Warm the ear with a rice sock or a warm washcloth wrapped in a plastic bag.
  • Either freehand or use a lancing device; new members usually start with a larger gauge lancet such as 28g or 29g until the ear learns to bleed; then progress to a 31g or 33g which are finer.
  • Be sure to poke in the "sweet spot" and not the major vein that runs along the length of the ear. Poking the vein will not only hurt, but will result in a lot of blood. The sweet spot is on the edge of the ear.
4395c545-36bf-4aba-bec7-4392fcdb191c-jpeg.48119

But did you also know there is a particular way for the lancet to be used? It has one side that is beveled so the sharpest part goes in first, if used correctly.

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/new-how-you-can-help-us-help-you.216696/

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/editing-your-signature-profile-and-preferences.130340/

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/fdmb-spreadsheet-instructions.130337/

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/understanding-the-spreadsheet-grid.156606/

@Nan & Amber (GA) jt meant to tag you :cat:
 
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Trick&Christmas said:
Oops I probably should have mentioned my name! I'm Victoria :D

Alright, I ordered the ReliOn glucose monitor, lancets, and test strips and I got a lancet pen as well. That'll be here Saturday so I can start getting a handle on that. I take it after I get comfortable testing his blood sugar I'll be good to start adjusting his diet slowly.

He's been on vetsulin since late January and we started with two units twice a day. He's been at the vet every 2-3 weeks until late March when the quarantine situation started, so his dose has been increased after his glucose curvings. However they did increase it by two at a time. I'll post in the vetsulin forum and seek advice.

Thanks for the help getting the glucose monitoring set up! That is probably the most confusing thing to me. I also found the thread with videos showing how to do that, and I feel a bit better about it. Next time we're at the vet I'll discuss monitoring at home.

My cats typically prefer gravies over pates, but I found the cat food chart and I see those typically have more carbs. Maybe I can add chicken broth to help transition them. This seems like it's going to be a journey but I'm a dedicated cat mom, so here goes :cat: I'm really glad I found this place
Click to expand...

One more thing, check your syringes and see if they have 1/2 unit markings. Since here you’ll be guided to increase at .25 or .5 units the syringes with the 1/2 marks are very helpful. That’s why I got the ReliOn ones only $12 for 100 but you can’t order online. It’s store only and I’m in CA so they didn’t require a prescription but not sure where you’re at.

i was lucky that my latest vet actually asked me if I’d be comfortable testing at home and just emailing her the curve results. That’s what got me started home testing. I thought I could never do it but when I considered how less stressful it’d be for Minnie, I put on my big girl pants and did it. Anything for our furry babies :D oh and just to give you an idea even though Minnie is on Lantus, she was on 9 units a day. That’s when the vet said she was regulated. Since I started here I’ve been able to consistently decrease the dose and she’s now at 6 and doing just fine. Why overdose if you don’t have to?

Okay, I think that’s all but also can’t emphasize enough how warming up the ear makes a huge different. It’s much easier to get the blood droplet. It’s not a perfect science by any means. Sometimes I get too much and feel horrible for her and sometimes I get nothing and have to keep poking. This morning I got a perfect drop and she moved her ear and it ended up on my finger nail. I was determined to making it work and not wasting it so I carefully grabbed the blood from my nail with the strip and it worked! It’s quite a journey but this group gets me through it and we’re here for ya! :bighug:

I’m Alessandra btw and you can call me Ale
 
Trick&Christmas said:
Oops I probably should have mentioned my name! I'm Victoria :D

Alright, I ordered the ReliOn glucose monitor, lancets, and test strips and I got a lancet pen as well. That'll be here Saturday so I can start getting a handle on that. I take it after I get comfortable testing his blood sugar I'll be good to start adjusting his diet slowly.

He's been on vetsulin since late January and we started with two units twice a day. He's been at the vet every 2-3 weeks until late March when the quarantine situation started, so his dose has been increased after his glucose curvings. However they did increase it by two at a time. I'll post in the vetsulin forum and seek advice.

Thanks for the help getting the glucose monitoring set up! That is probably the most confusing thing to me. I also found the thread with videos showing how to do that, and I feel a bit better about it. Next time we're at the vet I'll discuss monitoring at home.

My cats typically prefer gravies over pates, but I found the cat food chart and I see those typically have more carbs. Maybe I can add chicken broth to help transition them. This seems like it's going to be a journey but I'm a dedicated cat mom, so here goes :cat: I'm really glad I found this place
Click to expand...


Trust me, im still shaking in my boots over all this but when you are stuck or just need to vent, this is the place to go, @jt and trouble (GA) is a very dedicated moral supporter who can cheer you up right away......Countless times I needed to step back and take a deep breath....but all these people are an amazing help.....YOU GOT THIS!!
 
Trick&Christmas said:
I'll post in the vetsulin forum and seek advice.
Click to expand...
Hi Victoria and welcome. Please stay here in Feline Health (Welcome & Main) forum! It's where new members should post first.

Once you get your User Id "Signature" setup, it will be easier to help you. That will take you about 1 minute to do that setup.
Then you need that spreadsheet, and we have a template and nice directions to follow, so you can copy our standardized spreadsheet. See back in Ale's post #14 for the directions on how to do that. No need for you to start from scratch, since we use a standardized SS (spreadsheet) format.

When in relationship to the insulin shot, were the tests done at the vet? Is your cat really, really laid back at the vet, or kind of keyed up? Stress raises the BG (blood glucose) levels, is why I'm asking.

You can use U100 syringes with a U40 insulin like Vetsulin. But it gets a bit complicated. The Relion syringes that were recommended are for U100 insulins. Relion doesn't make U40 syringes. But other places carry U40 syringes with 1/2 unit markings on the barrel, like ADW Diabetes for example.

p.s. I'm basically the only person helping in the Vetsulin ISG group right now, and I'm overwhelmed. Lots more people here to help you with suggestions. You've already gotten lots of help.

p.p.s. @jt and trouble (GA) are notorious around the message board, for her tags not working. But she is fantastic at moral support so we love having her around.:bighug:
 
Deb & Wink said:
Hi Victoria and welcome. Please stay here in Feline Health (Welcome & Main) forum! It's where new members should post first.

Once you get your User Id "Signature" setup, it will be easier to help you. That will take you about 1 minute to do that setup.
Then you need that spreadsheet, and we have a template and nice directions to follow, so you can copy our standardized spreadsheet. See back in Ale's post #14 for the directions on how to do that. No need for you to start from scratch, since we use a standardized SS (spreadsheet) format.

When in relationship to the insulin shot, were the tests done at the vet? Is your cat really, really laid back at the vet, or kind of keyed up? Stress raises the BG (blood glucose) levels, is why I'm asking.

You can use U100 syringes with a U40 insulin like Vetsulin. But it gets a bit complicated. The Relion syringes that were recommended are for U100 insulins. Relion doesn't make U40 syringes. But other places carry U40 syringes with 1/2 unit markings on the barrel, like ADW Diabetes for example.

p.s. I'm basically the only person helping in the Vetsulin ISG group right now, and I'm overwhelmed. Lots more people here to help you with suggestions. You've already gotten lots of help.

p.p.s. @jt and trouble (GA) are notorious around the message board, for her tags not working. But she is fantastic at moral support so we love having her around.:bighug:
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You forgot to say that Ale is her sidekick although she hasn’t officially hired me yet :smuggrin:
 
Oops I did post in the vetsulin thread earlier, but you can disregard it Deb. I did update my signature and get Trick's spreadsheet set up so once I have everything Saturday I'll be ready to go. I've been lurking for a week or two and finally felt ready to take the plunge, so that's the only way I got all that ordered so quickly.

At the vet, he acts very loving but I think it's a coping mechanism, it's how he acted when I first found him in the parking lot. He's usually sassy when he's comfortable (swiping when you walk past the food bowl and there's not enough food, love bites while petting, the little things that make him him:cat:), and he does not act like himself at the vet. He's still loving, at home he's just like a sour patch kid (sour, sweet, gone :p or sweet, sour, then gone lol). I also think going to the vet stresses him out because of the ulcers he developed. If my vet is okay with it, glucose curving at home would be way better for him. I'll just start doing it and discuss it with him when I go in next :D

I'm nervous about adjusting his dose, but I suppose that's why you all suggest doing it 0.25 units at a time. That makes me nervous about how we've been upping it 2 units each visit, but he's been okay on 6 for a few weeks and I'm home with him all day right now. I have been using the Vetrijec syringes, they do have a half unit marking. So once I start testing his glucose, should I come back and ask for advise on adjusting dose? Or maybe get a few days worth of readings and then come back?

Thank you so much to all of you for the advice. I get nibbled on now giving his insulin so I'm definitely going to try the singing, especially since I'll be testing his glucose soon. We always do pets and treats, so anything else I can do to soothe him is worth a shot.
 
Trick&Christmas said:
So once I start testing his glucose, should I come back and ask for advise on adjusting dose? Or maybe get a few days worth of readings and then come back?
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Don't wait that long.

You need to test every pre-shot, before you give the insulin, so you know that Trick's BG level is high enough. For a starting point, we suggest that you use a BG pre-shot of 200 mg/dL. That can be lowered with time, as you gather test data.

You need to test to find the onset or when the insulin starts to work for your cat.
You need to test at mid-cycle, to see how low a particular dose is dropping your cat.
You should also test later in the cycle, around +8 to +10 to see the duration of the Vetsulin in your cat.
Most cats only get 8-10 hours of duration with Vetsulin, but some cat's get longer.

So in the beginning of home testing, there will be more testing needed.
Start slow with the home testing. A cat's ears need to "learn to bleed" (grow more capillaries in the sweet spot) and you need to get comfortable with the testing.

Pre-shot tests first and foremost. To make sure the BG is high enough to give the dose of insulin. 6U each 12 hour cycle is a LOT of insulin, for any insulin. 12 units of insulin in a 24 hour period is a heck of a lot, even for a cat with specific high dose conditions, like IAA or Acromegaly.

The dry food is probably the only thing keeping Trick from having a hypoglycemic episode.

You might consider an automatic feeder, like the Petsafe 5, so you can get Trick a meal while you are away at school.

If you have any BG tests from the vet, enter those on the SS. If you can plug in some unit doses on the SS, that will be a good start. We like to see a row for each day, even if you do not have any test data. Helps my mind to process the SS better that way and see the trends in numbers.
 
Okay, so I'll test him once before feeding, +1 to see if it has kicked in, +5, and then +9 to see if it is still working, and then before the PM dose. So I can do some practice testing to get him used to it Saturday night and then Sunday I can run through all of that to get a full day.

Or if that's too soon to do that much testing, maybe I can do once before, once around +5, and then again before the PM dose. Then after a week, start to do more?

If the dry food is the only thing keeping him from that, it sounds like I'll have to start lowering his dry food intake and canned food uptake really slow so I can carefully adjust his insulin rather than say doing it over the course of a week or two. (I think he would be happy to be eat canned only, Christmas would need time to adjust)

This summer I'm only doing research and minimal work for online freshman labs, so I can make my own schedule and do plenty of it from home so adjusting now would be a good time. We can get settled into something that would work for my fall class schedule while I'm home to make sure he is okay on it. (that is, if we even have classes in person :nailbiting: I live close to a hot spot in the US)

If they did testing weeks apart, should I input all the empty days from those weeks in between vet visits? I remember estimates but not the exact numbers, but I can email the vet and see if they have all the BG data and ask that they send it to me. They also ran labs to make sure he didn't have any other issues, they should hopefully have that on file.

Also thanks Ale, I'll definitely try that! He loves ear scratches so maybe he'll enjoy it.
 
Trick&Christmas said:
Okay, so I'll test him once before feeding, +1 to see if it has kicked in, +5, and then +9 to see if it is still working, and then before the PM dose. So I can do some practice testing to get him used to it Saturday night and then Sunday I can run through all of that to get a full day.

Or if that's too soon to do that much testing, maybe I can do once before, once around +5, and then again before the PM dose. Then after a week, start to do more?

If the dry food is the only thing keeping him from that, it sounds like I'll have to start lowering his dry food intake and canned food uptake really slow so I can carefully adjust his insulin rather than say doing it over the course of a week or two. (I think he would be happy to be eat canned only, Christmas would need time to adjust)

This summer I'm only doing research and minimal work for online freshman labs, so I can make my own schedule and do plenty of it from home so adjusting now would be a good time. We can get settled into something that would work for my fall class schedule while I'm home to make sure he is okay on it. (that is, if we even have classes in person :nailbiting: I live close to a hot spot in the US)

If they did testing weeks apart, should I input all the empty days from those weeks in between vet visits? I remember estimates but not the exact numbers, but I can email the vet and see if they have all the BG data and ask that they send it to me. They also ran labs to make sure he didn't have any other issues, they should hopefully have that on file.

Also thanks Ale, I'll definitely try that! He loves ear scratches so maybe he'll enjoy it.
Click to expand...

:)

I’d do PS then +2, +6, PS again and another +2 if you can. What do you think @Deb & Wink?

When you do the curve, you’ll do every 2 hours so +2,+4,+6, etc
 
Trick&Christmas said:
Okay, so I'll test him once before feeding, +1 to see if it has kicked in, +5, and then +9 to see if it is still working, and then before the PM dose. So I can do some practice testing to get him used to it Saturday night and then Sunday I can run through all of that to get a full day.

Or if that's too soon to do that much testing, maybe I can do once before, once around +5, and then again before the PM dose. Then after a week, start to do more?

If the dry food is the only thing keeping him from that, it sounds like I'll have to start lowering his dry food intake and canned food uptake really slow so I can carefully adjust his insulin rather than say doing it over the course of a week or two. (I think he would be happy to be eat canned only, Christmas would need time to adjust)

This summer I'm only doing research and minimal work for online freshman labs, so I can make my own schedule and do plenty of it from home so adjusting now would be a good time. We can get settled into something that would work for my fall class schedule while I'm home to make sure he is okay on it. (that is, if we even have classes in person :nailbiting: I live close to a hot spot in the US)

If they did testing weeks apart, should I input all the empty days from those weeks in between vet visits? I remember estimates but not the exact numbers, but I can email the vet and see if they have all the BG data and ask that they send it to me. They also ran labs to make sure he didn't have any other issues, they should hopefully have that on file.

Also thanks Ale, I'll definitely try that! He loves ear scratches so maybe he'll enjoy it.
Click to expand...

Oh and that mid point test at +6, ive been switching it up to +5 or +7 some days per Deb’s advice to see when her true nadir is. It’s not always at +6
 
Trick&Christmas said:
Or if that's too soon to do that much testing, maybe I can do once before, once around +5, and then again before the PM dose. Then after a week, start to do more?
Click to expand...
No, that isn't too much testing to start, especially since you are trying to transition Trick from dry to wet food. Testing will help to catch any low numbers and help to keep him safer.

Trick&Christmas said:
If they did testing weeks apart, should I input all the empty days from those weeks in between vet visits? I remember estimates but not the exact numbers, but I can email the vet and see if they have all the BG data and ask that they send it to me. They also ran labs to make sure he didn't have any other issues, they should hopefully have that on file.
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Yes, please put in all the days, even if the test data is empty. You should still have insulin doses for those days. Put those on the SS (spreadsheet). Start with the most recent 2 weeks, and work backwards as time permits, to enter more dosing data.

There is a tab on the spreadsheet where you can enter lab data. That is not such a priority as the blood glucose and insulin dosing data. Get to that lab data when you do have some free time (in your full and busy life, like the rest of us - too much to do and too little time to do it in). You need to add columns to the SS TAB labeled Labs and enter the reference ranges for the various tests. The test names are already entered, so you don't have to do that part. But different test labs use different reference ranges, which should be on the copies of the lab work. Idexx, Antech are 2 of the big names for outside vet testing labs here in the US and elsewhere.

Then, you would enter the data for the lab tests that were actually done. You will not have had all of this lab work done, so enter what data you do have.

Yes, vary the mid-cycle test, so it isn't always at +6. Vetsulin often has an earlier nadir, so you should do some change-ups on the mid-day tests, to find that low point that the insulin is dropping Trick. Vary the mid-day tests from cycle to cycle.
 
Deb & Wink said:
No, that isn't too much testing to start, especially since you are trying to transition Trick from dry to wet food. Testing will help to catch any low numbers and help to keep him safer.


Yes, please put in all the days, even if the test data is empty. You should still have insulin doses for those days. Put those on the SS (spreadsheet). Start with the most recent 2 weeks, and work backwards as time permits, to enter more dosing data.

There is a tab on the spreadsheet where you can enter lab data. That is not such a priority as the blood glucose and insulin dosing data. Get to that lab data when you do have some free time (in your full and busy life, like the rest of us - too much to do and too little time to do it in). You need to add columns to the SS TAB labeled Labs and enter the reference ranges for the various tests. The test names are already entered, so you don't have to do that part. But different test labs use different reference ranges, which should be on the copies of the lab work. Idexx, Antech are 2 of the big names for outside vet testing labs here in the US and elsewhere.

Then, you would enter the data for the lab tests that were actually done. You will not have had all of this lab work done, so enter what data you do have.

Yes, vary the mid-cycle test, so it isn't always at +6. Vetsulin often has an earlier nadir, so you should do some change-ups on the mid-day tests, to find that low point that the insulin is dropping Trick. Vary the mid-day tests from cycle to cycle.
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I don't have the data from the vet yet, but I went ahead and input the dates and the doses so it'll be easy to add.

Everything arrived in the mail today! I tested his BG 30 minutes ago prior to feeding and it was 256. I'm giving him less insulin than usual (3 instead of 6 units) because that makes me nervous.

This has been super helpful. I'll do a full day of testing tomorrow. I did find the lancet pen more difficult but he didn't mind the poke as much, I think it was just quicker than me doing it so there was less of a poke. Definitely will experiment with both, if I can get more comfortable aiming with the lancet pen I don't think it'll bother him as much.

You all have been amazing :bighug:
 
Trick&Christmas said:
I don't have the data from the vet yet, but I went ahead and input the dates and the doses so it'll be easy to add.

Everything arrived in the mail today! I tested his BG 30 minutes ago prior to feeding and it was 256. I'm giving him less insulin than usual (3 instead of 6 units) because that makes me nervous.

This has been super helpful. I'll do a full day of testing tomorrow. I did find the lancet pen more difficult but he didn't mind the poke as much, I think it was just quicker than me doing it so there was less of a poke. Definitely will experiment with both, if I can get more comfortable aiming with the lancet pen I don't think it'll bother him as much.

You all have been amazing :bighug:
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We’re not on the same insulin so I can’t speak for the numbers. As for the lancet, use the bevel side and go in at and angle with the tip going in first. I tend to go upwards into it at about a 45 degree angle.

great news that he didn’t mind the pen! I should try that now that I’m a bit more comfortable testing. I was scared of it at first ha!

You’re doing great, congrats!! :bighug:
 
Once you are testing at home, it gives you a better idea of what the BG levels are, at any point in time.
Knowledge is power, and you are gaining knowledge about feline diabetes by leaps and bounds.

Vetsulin often only lasts 8-10 hours in a cat. It works better for dogs, with their slower metabolism. It's called Caninsulin outside the US for a reason - canine insulin.

I think your decision to reduce the dose to 3U was a good call.
If possible, try to get a "before bed" test every PM cycle.
 
So far I've been able to test when I planned to, but I feel bad because I've had to poke him a few times each testing session :( I live alone at school but I'm at my parent's currently and I'm so grateful my mom is a cat person, she's been helping me keep him in one spot while testing. Earlier Trick decided I should test my BG too and got a good swipe in on my palm lol. I need to get comfortable doing this alone though because I'm going back in two weeks :eek: hopefully after a week Trick and I will both be used to it enough that I can practice alone.

Once I get back to my apartment I'll start switching my cats diets over to canned, so I'll have two weeks of data to work with and Trick and Christmas won't have access to my mom's kitties food.
 
Are you giving him a treat after? Some folks here use the burrito technique where they wrap their cats so they can test. I haven’t used it but Deb can explain it better than me. What do you think it’s the main issue right now with him and testing? Just holding the ear or the actual prick? The singing helped me a lot. You also have to put yourself in the frame of mind of being in control. Every time I hesitate with Minnie or act like I’m unsure it goes horribly. I got tons of great tips here but one of the best ones was go in and out quickly then apologize. I hold the ear firmly and try to prick it fast. And sometimes if shes acting like she’s hating it, I’ll let her move her ear a bit, then I look at it and try to squeeze the ear so she has a break in between the two. And trying to prick the same spot on the second attempt can help you get enough blood out.
You got this! :cat:
 
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He has been getting treats after. It seems to be both holding the ear and pricking. The issue is is I'll have to prick 3-4 times and usually by that point he is fed up - not that I blame him, I would be too lol. Also, if I have to massage the ear to try and get more blood he hates it. I hope once he has more capillaries built up and I'm used to doing it he won't mind quite as much. I have been massaging his ears some too while scratching between his ears and he doesn't mind as much then. :cat:
 
Trick&Christmas said:
He has been getting treats after. It seems to be both holding the ear and pricking. The issue is is I'll have to prick 3-4 times and usually by that point he is fed up - not that I blame him, I would be too lol. Also, if I have to massage the ear to try and get more blood he hates it. I hope once he has more capillaries built up and I'm used to doing it he won't mind quite as much. I have been massaging his ears some too while scratching between his ears and he doesn't mind as much then. :cat:
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It sounds to me you’re pricking too delicately if you have to do it multiples times. Try to prick it with just a little more pressure next time. You may have the opposite result and get too much blood but you’ll need to play with it to find the right amount of pressure. Just remember apply pressure to the spot after too so it doesn’t bruise even when you do get too much blood. Also I don’t really massage the ear to milk it. I do what the vet tech showed me actually, which is the only thing she showed me that works, I squeeze it almost like folding the ear on that spot, like you would to burst a pimple is the best way I can think of describing it, but not quite as forcefully because the blood comes out easier than the head of a pimple!

hope that helps :)
 
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Aleluia Grugru & Minnie said:
It sounds to me you’re pricking too delicately if you have to do it multiples times. Try to prick it with just a little more pressure next time. You may have the opposite result and get too much blood but you’ll need to play with it to find the right amount of pressure. Just remember apply pressure to the spot after too so it doesn’t bruise even when you do get too much blood. Also I don’t really massage the ear to milk it. I do what the vet tech showed me actually, which is the only thing she showed me that works, I squeeze it almost like folding the ear on that spot, like you would to burst a pimple is the best way I can think of describing it, but not quite as forcefully because the blood comes out easier than the head of a pimple!

hope that helps :)
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This does help! I was being too timid with it. We did our last test for the night. I would do one in a few hours +2 or +3 but my mom will be asleep. I do need to figure out how to do this myself, I managed to get horse pills down when he had ulcers so I know it can be done lol. He will probably have to be burritoed. But we're gonna call it a victory for now that we got through all of it today.
 
Trick&Christmas said:
This does help! I was being too timid with it. We did our last test for the night. I would do one in a few hours +2 or +3 but my mom will be asleep. I do need to figure out how to do this myself, I managed to get horse pills down when he had ulcers so I know it can be done lol. He will probably have to be burritoed. But we're gonna call it a victory for now that we got through all of it today.
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You will! I do it haha myself. Once he and you get more used to it, it will just become part of the routine like the shots. You’ve come a long way already. Don’t worry, it will get easier xoxo :)
 
I got all the records from the vet this morning and input the data into the spreadsheet and made a few notes. I still need to put his labs in, but I'll do that this weekend.

His glucose does look like it was higher at the vet, I haven't seen his glucose above 500 at home at all but both times they curved it hit above that. I had decided to keep him at 3u while I start collected more data with his BG, but I did up it by 0.25 last night. I'll hold it here for a few days. I'm starting to feed more wet food than dry, but he does still have access to dry food at my parents and I need to calculate what is in his treats. My mom has freeze dried treats for her kitties so I'm going to try to turn him onto those.

I didn't test as much yesterday because my mom went into work, but I'm going to try to do it alone in a few hours so we'll see how that goes lol. I think I'm getting of doing it quickly and if I'm fast enough it should work.

Edit: whoops, well about half of that was a fur shot because he lunged for treats lol
 
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Trick&Christmas said:
I got all the records from the vet this morning and input the data into the spreadsheet and made a few notes. I still need to put his labs in, but I'll do that this weekend.

His glucose does look like it was higher at the vet, I haven't seen his glucose above 500 at home at all but both times they curved it hit above that. I had decided to keep him at 3u while I start collected more data with his BG, but I did up it by 0.25 last night. I'll hold it here for a few days. I'm starting to feed more wet food than dry, but he does still have access to dry food at my parents and I need to calculate what is in his treats. My mom has freeze dried treats for her kitties so I'm going to try to turn him onto those.

I didn't test as much yesterday because my mom went into work, but I'm going to try to do it alone in a few hours so we'll see how that goes lol. I think I'm getting of doing it quickly and if I'm fast enough it should work.

Edit: whoops, well about half of that was a fur shot because he lunged for treats lol
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Freeze dried treats are great! You just have to find the ones he likes. It was a bit of trial and error for me with my guys because they didn’t care for chicken, turkey and even some of the fish like salmon and tuna. Finally, found that the shrimp and minnows they both love. Also giblets but I can’t give them that one very often because of Minnie's on and off diarrhea

for the shots, are you using light too? I find that helps tremendously as well but of course if they move or jerk it’s tough. My one little tip with that is that if the needle is already in and Minnie does move - sometimes she’ll get up or sit down - I stop instead of trying to push it in fast and wait till she stops too. Then I make sure I still have the needle in and a good grip and then push the rest of the insulin all the way in. Hope that helps!

how is the testing going? Is he still fighting it? What’s the hardest part for you when you try to do it alone right now? Maybe we can help :cat:

I’ll take a look at the ss and I’ll be back :)
 
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Trick&Christmas said:
I got all the records from the vet this morning and input the data into the spreadsheet and made a few notes. I still need to put his labs in, but I'll do that this weekend.

His glucose does look like it was higher at the vet, I haven't seen his glucose above 500 at home at all but both times they curved it hit above that. I had decided to keep him at 3u while I start collected more data with his BG, but I did up it by 0.25 last night. I'll hold it here for a few days. I'm starting to feed more wet food than dry, but he does still have access to dry food at my parents and I need to calculate what is in his treats. My mom has freeze dried treats for her kitties so I'm going to try to turn him onto those.

I didn't test as much yesterday because my mom went into work, but I'm going to try to do it alone in a few hours so we'll see how that goes lol. I think I'm getting of doing it quickly and if I'm fast enough it should work.

Edit: whoops, well about half of that was a fur shot because he lunged for treats lol
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Folks will correct me if I’m wrong, but I think you want to hold the same dose for 6 cycles which equals 3 days at least before changing it. So hold the 3.25 a bit longer than you did the 3. His numbers are high so I don’t think it’s an issue that you did that, but again, let’s see what others think.
And when your mom can help you, try to get some pm +2 tests I don’t see any after the PMPS and, as I’ve learned, those are a good indication of where his level is headed for the night.
You really are doing awesome and having your mom help now will be super helpful in getting the hang of it for later when you’re on your own :)
 
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Aleluia Grugru & Minnie said:
Freeze dried treats are great! You just have to find the ones he likes. It was a bit of trial and error for me with my guys because they didn’t care for chicken, turkey and even some of the fish like salmon and tuna. Finally, found that the shrimp and minnows they both love. Also giblets but I can’t give them that one very often because of Minnie's on and off diarrhea

for the shots, are you using light too? I find that helps tremendously as well but of course if they move or jerk it’s tough. My one little tip with that is that if the needle is already in and Minnie does move - sometimes she’ll get up or sit down - I stop instead of trying to push it in fast and wait till she stops too. Then I make sure I still have the needle in and a good grip and then push it the rest all the way in. Hope that helps!

how is the testing going? Is he still fighting it? What’s the hardest part for you when you try to do it alone right now? Maybe we can help :cat:

I’ll take a look at the ss and I’ll be back :)
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For the shots, not usually, but it depends on how cooperate he's being.

I was worried about being able to keep him in one spot alone, my mom was standing or sitting behind him while I was focused on his ear. I just did it though! Luckily it went okay, it's a huge relief. I tried it with him between my knees, but eventually he ended up in my lap facing away from me and I was able to keep ahold of him that way. It is still easier with help, but now that I know I can do it I'll get a +2 or +3 tonight. I've been waking up around 7-8 so he's been getting insulin at 8:30/8:45.
 
Trick&Christmas said:
For the shots, not usually, but it depends on how cooperate he's being.

I was worried about being able to keep him in one spot alone, my mom was standing or sitting behind him while I was focused on his ear. I just did it though! Luckily it went okay, it's a huge relief. I tried it with him between my knees, but eventually he ended up in my lap facing away from me and I was able to keep ahold of him that way. It is still easier with help, but now that I know I can do it I'll get a +2 or +3 tonight. I've been waking up around 7-8 so he's been getting insulin at 8:30/8:45.
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Testing a not so cooperative cat by yourself is a huge accomplishment in my book and since I’m sure it’s happy hour somewhere in the world, you earned yourself a glass of wine!!! :joyful:

it will just get easier and easier from here you’ll see, but sometimes it’s still a hit or miss for me so also be patient with yourself when it doesn’t go according to plan. As JT said, you’re getting it girl! :bighug:
 
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Testing seems to be going better! Tomorrow I am thinking of upping his dose to 3.5. His numbers seem really high to me. I switched him to FF gourmet naturals since it's a bit cheaper and currently he's getting a whole can in the morning and at night. He's definitely eating less of the hard food.

Quarantine has me sleeping too much. I need to stay up to do more post PM BG tests, the problem is I've been sleeping like 10-12 hours every night lol.
 
Trick&Christmas said:
Testing seems to be going better! Tomorrow I am thinking of upping his dose to 3.5. His numbers seem really high to me. I switched him to FF gourmet naturals since it's a bit cheaper and currently he's getting a whole can in the morning and at night. He's definitely eating less of the hard food.

Quarantine has me sleeping too much. I need to stay up to do more post PM BG tests, the problem is I've been sleeping like 10-12 hours every night lol.
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awesome and congrats, I love hearing that!! And I know the feeling when I started feeling like I’m finally getting this!

Let’s see what @Deb & Wink says about the dosage. You’ve been on it for 3 days/6 cycles so I tend to agree but let’s see her reply.

and I totally hear you! Deb was very patient with me and it was hard because I’m doing that +2 right before going to bed and of course then I get the adrenaline going so I can’t fall asleep right away and these guys are waking me up before 7am :arghh: I also used to sleep 10-11 on the weekends. I’ve come to terms with not being able to get more than 9 these days. I sure do envy people that can function on 7-6 hours of sleep. I’ve never been one of those lucky ones and I often wonder if I wouldn’t have conquered the world by now had I been LOL :D
 
I actually don't think you held the 3U dose long enough.
I'd rather see you go back to that 3U dose for a minimum of 6 cycles, maybe longer.

Most cats on Vetsulin have a nadir or low (peak action of insulin) somewhere around the +4 time.
Plus, without PM test data, except for the pre-shot test, you are missing half your data.
I know it's tough, but getting some tests in at night is important.

Trick&Christmas said:
I need to stay up to do more post PM BG tests, the problem is I've been sleeping like 10-12 hours every night lol.
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Sign of depression, sleeping that much. Been there.

Victoria, please "Like" our posts to let us know you have read them. Only useful function for the Like button, IMHO. Thanks.

p.s. You 2 must be youngsters, haven't hit menopause and hot flashes yet! And all the aches and pains that come with an aging body, that wake you up in the middle of the night. Besides my cat, deciding my stomach makes a comfy pillow at 3-4 am!:cat: Getting 6-7 hours a night? I wish!:rolleyes:
 
Deb & Wink said:
I actually don't think you held the 3U dose long enough.
I'd rather see you go back to that 3U dose for a minimum of 6 cycles, maybe longer.

Most cats on Vetsulin have a nadir or low (peak action of insulin) somewhere around the +4 time.
Plus, without PM test data, except for the pre-shot test, you are missing half your data.
I know it's tough, but getting some tests in at night is important.


Sign of depression, sleeping that much. Been there.

Victoria, please "Like" our posts to let us know you have read them. Only useful function for the Like button, IMHO. Thanks.

p.s. You 2 must be youngsters, haven't hit menopause and hot flashes yet! And all the aches and pains that come with an aging body, that wake you up in the middle of the night. Besides my cat, deciding my stomach makes a comfy pillow at 3-4 am!:cat: Getting 6-7 hours a night? I wish!:rolleyes:
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I am I have!!! All of it, I just turn and keep on sleeping. I can sleep through almost anything but it helps that I have allergies and take a Benadryl before bed. I have to say I’m on the right dose of hormones now so no more night sweats!!!! :bighug:
 
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