Skinny diabetic. What am I doing wrong?

Discussion in 'Caninsulin / Vetsulin and N / NPH' started by Samantha Rivera, Jul 2, 2020.

  1. Samantha Rivera

    Samantha Rivera New Member

    Joined:
    May 16, 2020
    Sigh, this is very long overdue, but I’m finally testing my sugar kitty on my own. I was getting extremely frustrated on waiting for my husband to help me out and I was too scared to prick my kitty. Of course, when I finally prick him on my own, the meter can’t read the strips and I’ve ran out. My husband and I were testing him every few days, so I can’t give a proper spreadsheet yet. I was hoping to start it today, but so much for that. I will go to the store to buy more strips before his next shot. I’m hoping to get good results before his next vet visit next Saturday.

    Below is a bunch of information on my sugar baby:
    • He was diagnosed April 12.
    • He was given fluid therapy and antibiotics for his UTI that day.
    • He was high in ketones, but wasn’t properly tested for it, since the vet didn’t have the stuff??? Confused???
    • He didn’t start insulin until early or mid May. He was on Novolin 70/30. 1 unit day and night.
    • He needed antibiotics again during that time too.
    • He was eating D/M at the time too, so after that last antibiotics, I switched him onto pate. He stopped urinating so much and drinking less water after awhile.
    • He had one hypoglycemic event sometime in late May. He was 74-79 at the vet that morning. We bought a meter in early June after research.
    • He weighed 12 lbs before April. He was 10 lbs on his first diagnosed visit. His last appointment, 2-3 weeks ago, he was 9.5 lbs.
    • He is getting skinnier and I feel his bones now. Am I doing something wrong?
    • He use to eat 1/2 can of friskies pate day and night, but he wouldn’t eat it all after awhile.
    • Recently, he gets sardines or cooked chicken throughout the day as treats, everyday. I’m worried about his weight, so I thought more protein will help. He seemed to gain some weight after a week, but it’s gone downhill again.
    • He now eats 1/4 can of friskies pate day and night. He eats it all. He won’t eat anymore than that.
    • He started Novolin N a couple weeks ago (mid June). 2 units at day and night. A few days after, he had one tiny seizure that lasted 3-5 seconds, but his number was around 313. I was thoroughly confused. I did give him raw chicken for the first time a few hours prior, so I assumed it was that, so I never gave him raw since then. He was begging for chicken that I was making for dinner that day, and blinking slowly, when he just fell over and yowled.

    Lastly, at the beginning of this week, he stopped eating his friskies pate. I rotate between chicken and fish, so it was random to see he was sniffing and staring at the flavors. I gave him a teaspoon of fish flavored friskies dry food to mix in. He ate his food like that the rest of this week. I feel bad for only having that food on hand, is there any food that’s under 40 dollars and low in carbs? I’d just use it was treats or to mix in his pate, if he gets picky again. Last night, he barely touched his dinner. He was about 154, after I gave him 1 unit last night. I’ve been lowering his dosage due to how funny he’s been acting this week. Is that the right thing to do? This morning at 6:30 he was 414 and had a few bites of food after. He puked four times an hour later. Most of it was foamy bile.

    He was given his insulin a little after 7:15am before he puked. I was trying to test him +4 to see how his insulin is doing. I failed to get the strips to read properly. I’m monitoring him at the moment. He seems tired, but definitely perked up once I pricked him.

    I will mention I have 3 cats and only my husband works, so we’re in a tight money situation. I make 200 a month doing online jobs. We paid nearly 700 on that first vet visit. After that, we paid 60 dollars every few weeks doing glucose checks. I didn’t realize how ridiculous that was and most of that money could of been used for stocking up on other essentials for my sugar baby! After doing more research and learning about testing at home, this is definitely going to help us out later! But I feel like I waited wayyy too long and my cat has lost so much weight because of it. He’s 7 years old. Turning 8 this October. What am I doing wrong? What do I need to fix? Reality check? What are some concerns I should bring up with the vet? He hates the idea I’m feeding him friskies pate and claims that’s why his numbers are high, so the past couple of visits I lied to him that he’s still on D/M. Also, he wanted me to give him 3 units. I stuck at 2 units, until this week of course.. it’s been 1 unit. Is that ok? I know a proper answer may not be given due to no spreadsheet. I feel more confident in pricking him in his sweet spot, but he still whines a bit or moves way too much at times. I sincerely hope I can get at least one curve this weekend. What’s a good insulin to start on for now due to low expenses? His appointment is next Saturday. Hopefully, the vet can agree on a recommended insulin. He did say he wanted him to be on a higher dollar insulin if Novolin wasn’t working well. By the way, thank you for taking the time to read this and I’m sorry if you read some very cringe stuff.

    Edit: I forgot to mention. He’s three legged!
     
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2020
  2. NoahFL

    NoahFL Member

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2020
    Hi! I’m fairly new here and this was the advice I got on food intake:

    “So the rule of thumb is about 20 calories per pound of ideal weight. So if you are feeding a 10 lb cat that would be about 200 calories per day. Diabetics with unregulated numbers sometimes will need more because they aren't utilizing the nutrients properly. Just something to keep in mind. Fingers crossed for some good numbers today.“

    I had one sugar kitty of Novolin N, but from what I’ve read here, there are different reacting insulin’s. Quick reaction (Nov) vs time releasing (ProZinc). Mine is currently on ProZinc. Be sure to read the sticky’s and dill out your spreadsheet so that others can offer advice. I still learning, so not the best for advice. I would recommend a small amount of Vaseline on the Ear before you prick. That makes it easier for the blood to form a drop instead of smearing in the fur. Also, I put Max on a soft blanket on the bed to prick him. Most of the time he kneads on it while I prick him. I’m sure other more experiences folks will chime in.

    Also take some time to read other posts. You learn a lot!
     
  3. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2016
    Welcome... so sorry you are struggling. There are a few suggestions I have for you.

    The thing that concerns me most, is the ketones.

    If the cat is not eating enough, or has an underlying infection, ketones can develop rapidly and can be DEADLY. I would suggest TODAY, go to the store and get either ketone reading urine strips (they are for humans, get them at any pharmacy). You can also get a ketone blood meter, which I prefer, but I don't know if they will carry them in your local pharmacy. Maybe they will. If the ketones read anything over a TRACE amount, it is an EMERGENCY and your cat needs to be on an IV drip to flush them out. Here's some info on Ketones http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/...oacidosis-dka-and-blood-ketone-meters.135952/ It's really important he eats... if he won't eat on his own, try watering it down and syringe feeding him. If he will eat the cooked chicken give some of that.

    Maybe try a different food like fancy feast classic. Or maybe he doesn't like the texture of pate and would prefer ff Chunky or Flaked foods. Here is a food chart. Look at the carbs section and you can feed anything that is UNDER 10% carb. https://catinfo.org/chart/index.php

    Is he drinking? He's getting skinner because he's not eating enough calories for his size. He should be eating about 200 calories a day and unregulated diabetics sometimes need more then average because their bodies cannot utilize the nutrients properly... so he's "starving" even though he's eating. Offer the 1/4 can in the morning and see if he will eat another 1/4 at lunch, 1/4 at dinner, and 1/4 before bed. I know my cats don't like food unless it's "FRESH" out of the can. But try fancy feast or some other low carb food, maybe the change will entice him. You can also ask your vet for an appetite stimulant if his eating doesn't improve. I've also found non of my cats eat much in the heat... that could be part of it for your cat as well.

    My next suggestion, get off Novolin and try a longer acting insulin such as prozinc or Lantus. Your cat has a much better chance of getting regulated on it, and it doesn't drop as hard and fast causing crazy bouncing rollercoster numbers.

    I'm not sure what to say about the seizure. How are his kidneys? Maybe ask your vet to test his blood pressure... High blood pressure can cause seizures. Ask for a copy of his lab reports and post them... maybe there's a clue in there.

    are you asking if there is a DRY food under $40 low in carb? There are only a handful of dry foods that are under 10 carb. One is Young Again Zero Carb (you can get it at youngagainpetfood.com), Dr. Elsey's Clean Protein Chicken flavor, and wysong's Epigen 90 (not the regular epigen, it has to be epigen 90 ). All of these companies will send free samples if you ask them. the smaller bags are not that expensive since it's just being used as a supplemental treat.
    how long after the insulin was the 154? what kind of meter are you using? I can't really give dosing advice without seeing the numbers.

    Also, if you would set up a signature that would be helpful. CLick on your name at the upper right and go to signature. Enter info such as your pets name, age, date diagnosed, if there is a history of ketones, insulin being used, food you are feeding, and any other health concerns. Make sure to hit save. This way we have all the info there and don't have to ask the same questions over and over. The next thing you will want to do is set up a spreadsheet. Here is the instructions for that. http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/fdmb-spreadsheet-instructions.130337/

    OK what you need to bring up with the vet is 1. CHECK KETONES. If there are any he needs to have fluids right away. 2. get a perscription for prozinc or lantus. Prozinc can be bought on Chewy.com for $105. I know you said you are on a limited budget, but that should last you 4-6 months in the refrigerator, so really it's not a lot over time, just a lot to lay out. You just have to buy it on chewy and they would contact the vet for approval. Lantus can be purchased MUCH cheaper through Marks Marine Pharmacy in Canada. Again they will get the perscription from the vet and then just send it to you. The first month of all the diagnosis and testing is expensive, but it gets easier esp since you are testing home now. The DM food is crap and too high in carb. The ingredients are no better then you get in the grocery store. as a matter of fact, DM used to stand for "diabetic management" ... they had to change it to "dietetic management" because frankly it SUCKS for diabetics. Just tell him you can't afford the DM. If HE wants to buy it out of his own pocket, he can.

    Diabetes is not a death sentence. My cat was diagnosed 4 years ago. We can help you. PLease keep asking questions if you have any. :)
     
  4. Samantha Rivera

    Samantha Rivera New Member

    Joined:
    May 16, 2020
    Oh my goodness. I did not know that and will look into the information. Thank you! I will definitely go to the stores today and find something to test for ketones.
    I'll bring it up with the vet too. I'll either update here or create a new post in a more active section if I have any questions or concerns later. :)


    He’s drinking very little today from what I’ve seen, but not excessively. It has been rather hot this week, so that could possibly be why he's eating less this week. He’s on 5.5 oz of pate, so from what I'm doing.. he’s definitely not getting enough calories and basically just getting half a can. Even then, the one can (chicken flavor) is still a bit low in calories. It's about 187 I believe, so I'll give him some treats to make up for that or another spoonful of pate. I'll do some more research on calories though. :) I've actually been thinking about buying some FF pate, so I’ll make sure to go back to buy some. It’s close to his dinner time, so I’ll be testing him again and giving his usual amount (1/4 of the can). I'll give him another 1/4 as a midnight snack. I’ll try another test before I go to bed too, since I messed up this morning and add onto the spreadsheet once I get it up.


    I'll bring that up with the vet, since I'm not sure and post an update later.


    Yes, I may try out these dry foods as treats. I'll get some free samples and see how he likes them. He used to be on dry food his entire life, and he was doing fine on pate for awhile there, but it seems he's getting bored.
    I may just try a different texture of pate like you mentioned above, and it could be the heat like you mentioned.

    Also, he was 154 at +4. I’m using the relion prime meter; human meter. He gets his shots every morning at 7 or 7:30am CST and at night exactly at 7pm CST.
    I tend to feed an hour early, occasionally 30 mins early if I miss my first alarm.


    Will do! :)

    Also, thank you for the suggestions on insulin! I’m planning on asking about Prozinc next week. I didn’t realize they lasted longer, until recently, so it made up my mind to get him off Novolin N.
    I know I wasn’t testing often before, but when I was able to test midway, WOW, do those numbers drop severely low and fast. It scared me. Thank you so much for the advice, and putting my mind at ease.
    He's doing a bit better now after this morning and moving around now. He just ate a few pieces of chicken and his grooming himself. I see grooming himself as a good sign!
     
  5. Samantha Rivera

    Samantha Rivera New Member

    Joined:
    May 16, 2020
    I will try out that vaseline method! His blood did smear the second time I tried testing this morning. :( Thanks for the advice!
     
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  6. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2016
    If you are having trouble getting a sample, it might be the lancets you are using. What size gauge are the ones you are using? If they are 30-33 try thicker 26-28 gauge ones. this is the brand I use https://www.amazon.com/trueplus-Lan...4&sr=1-1-70f7c15d-07d8-466a-b325-4be35d7258cc

    This is what the strips look like. There's a color code on the side to compare the strips... read the directions... most of the time you have to judge the color at the 15 second mark. https://www.amazon.com/s?k=ketone strips&i=hpc&ref=nb_sb_noss_1
    Amazon has blood ketone meters that work just like a blood glucose meter. That's what I use since it's hard to catch my cat in the box. THere's several brands. I use the keto mojo, but this ketosens meter got good reviews and is cheaper. https://www.amazon.com/KetoSens-Met...9Y2xpY2tSZWRpcmVjdCZkb05vdExvZ0NsaWNrPXRydWU=

    That's a really good reading for a newly diagnosed cat! Does seem to be doing a lot of bouncing from low to high though, and a more gentle insulin might help with that. :)

    You're very welcome! We were all new and scared at one time!!!! Glad he looks like he's feeling good. Keep eating buddy!!!! Grooming is definitely a good sign.
     
  7. Samantha Rivera

    Samantha Rivera New Member

    Joined:
    May 16, 2020
    I’m using the 30 gauge. I’ll look into getting something thicker. I did find the ketone strips, but I think I’ll just order the meter through Amazon. Got caught up at the store, but I just tested him when I came back and he ate a bit just now. He’s 183. I’m thinking I shouldn’t give him any insulin tonight and continue to test a bit later.
     
  8. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2016
    184 is close to 200.. I would stall for a half hour and retest and see if it's going up. I'm hesitant to tell you to skip with a history of ketones. I would lower to 1 unit as a starting dose and see what happens, esp since he's not eating great.
     
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  9. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2016
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  10. Samantha Rivera

    Samantha Rivera New Member

    Joined:
    May 16, 2020
    Let me retest him. It’s been over an hour though, but not two hours as of yet from his dosage time. He just tested 430. :nailbiting:
     
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  11. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2016
    I'd shoot
     
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  12. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2016
    Next time you get a low preshot number retest in 20-30 min without feeding to see if it is going up. You can stall up to an hour or so
     
  13. Samantha Rivera

    Samantha Rivera New Member

    Joined:
    May 16, 2020
    I'll remember that. Thank you :) Just gave him his 1 unit. He was not happy, haha. Once I get more info on his spreadsheet, I'll post later next week in feline health to ask further questions or if I have any concerns throughout the week. :cat:
     
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  14. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2016
    Good job learning to test. You have A VERY bouncy cat.
     
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