Are the greens really worth it?

[Laurie&Petey]

Previous post

Don't get me wrong, I understand the greens are the goal and where our kitties need to be, but at what cost? Watching and reading posts, while envious of all the green surfs, I watch people cancel plans, stay up all night to feed and test, stay home all day, or have people come over to monitor. And all the fear of what and when to feed and shoot and will they keep going lower?!!

I'm new, so stressing and changing my plans for the yellows and blues is comical in comparison! But I am trying to wrap my head around is it safe to artificially get them to the green and at what point, if ever, do you stop worrying if they'll go too low?

I can kinda understand why the vet never recommended home testing and most vets seem to think 200 - 300 is good enough. One can drive themselves, and others nuts chasing numbers! I had a vet tech tell me Petey would never get to 100, she was so adamant she repeated herself! I bit my tongue and just thought then maybe you should learn more so you can do your job better for Pete's sake!

For those who are regulated in the greens, have you stopped worrying if they'll go too low? Is it bad to be comfy in the blues?

No one ever said this would be easy and I'm just having an emotional moment I guess. On the bright side, since we adopted Petey a couple years ago, he never cuddled and since being diagnosed he's been a wicked cuddle bug most days and nights and I'm thankful for our new bond.

 

[Lansry]

Haha! I get the same feeling. Every time I see numbers under 150 at PS time, and lately I get under 90 numbers, my brain would freeze for a moment (LOL). I don't know if I can switch to TR method because it feels stressful .

 

[Laurie&Petey]

Haha! I get the same feeling. Every time I see numbers under 150 at PS time, and lately I get under 90 numbers, my brain would freeze for a moment (LOL). I don't know if I can switch to TR method because it feels stressful .

Felix, that little carb stealer! That made me chuckle Petey was caught stealing dog food last week. These poor kitties, but Felix's numbers looks like he really wants remission.

 

[CORKY]

Haha! I get the same feeling. Every time I see numbers under 150 at PS time, and lately I get under 90 numbers, my brain would freeze for a moment (LOL). I don't know if I can switch to TR method because it feels stressful .

Honestly, YES! the greens are well worth it, these are the number our diabetic cats should be in, is when the pancreas are healing and producing insulin, I can see your frustration, I was one of those that the vet said exactly the same thing, he needs to be between 200-300, I still have the recorded conversation, sleepless nights and not leaving him alone and testing obsessively if he was even 150, and bombarding this forum, crying uncontrollably, thinking he was dying, and would not give insulin until I received assistance here, but wouldn't you know, just see his Spreadsheet down below, and now I sleep even when he has 70's, this is where he needs to be, Vets like to keep our cats in those numbers, more vet visits, they do not tell you that you cat needs to have a diet consisting of wet can food between 0-10% carbs, I could never be happier with Corky's spreadsheet, now is when all my stress is gone, the fears of losing him and panic attacks; believe me IT is worth it. For me and Corky, this is where we need to be, the information and accessible information in this Forum by the dedicated members is all I need for Corky, they have more updated knowledge that many Vets, they are mostly used to Dog diabetes if that, and they treat as that dogs. It was very hard for me at first to even conceive 100's BGs , but we have come far from that fear, now I worry if there are 3 blues in a day!

 

[Sienne and Gabby (GA)]

How you approach dosing and numbers depends on what your goals are. The one thing to keep in mind is that cats can go into remission. The best chance of getting them into remission is for them to spend time in normal blood glucose range (50 - 120) since the diabetes has forced their numbers out of that range. It can take time and perseverance for their body to readjust to "green" numbers.

However, not everyone is willing to work at remission. We do suggest you consider tight regulation meaning that you get your cat into a range that is below renal threshold. Diabetes is really tough on the kidneys. Aging is also tough on a cat's kidneys. As a result, keeping your cats in a range that is in the 200s or below (that's an approximate number since each cat's renal threshold may be a bit different) will help to protect the kidneys.

When I first joined FDMB, there really wasn't a well developed SLGS for cats prescribed Lantus. Everyone pretty much did TR. Even if SLGS was more popular, I suspect I still would have done TR since it is the dosing method that has published research to support it. Being a bit of a science nerd, that's the way my brain goes.

Vets tend to lean toward advising higher numbers because they don't want your cat to become hypoglycemic. In part, their concern is based on their not strongly encouraging home testing. Many vets take that stance after having encountered caregivers who would find home testing too much trouble and want to euthanize their cat. We advocate for home testing since it's the best way to ensure your cat is safe. I also strongly suspect that vets make diet recommendations not out of a financial motivation but out of a lack of knowledge. Most vet schools offer minimal education about nutrition -- about the same amount as medical doctors receive. The pet food manufacturers send their sales reps to vet offices to sell "prescription" food and that's where the vets think they are getting research based information. In the case of the diabetic diets, many of the diets are far higher in carbs than something like Fancy Feast pates. When I had that discussion with my vet, she was astonished that the diabetic dry food especially was very high in carbs and Fancy Feast was way lower in carbs than the diabetic canned foods. She was a great vet but accepted what the Hill's and Purina sales reps told her.

 

[Lansry]

Petey was caught stealing dog food last week.

Haha! I think we underestimated their ninja abilities .

but Felix's numbers looks like he really wants remission

That's what I thought, too! But then he started getting higher numbers again since yesterday so I don't know .

 

[Lansry]

Honestly, YES! the greens are well worth it, these are the number our diabetic cats should be in, is when the pancreas are healing and producing insulin, I can see your frustration, I was one of those that the vet said exactly the same thing, he needs to be between 200-300, I still have the recorded conversation, sleepless nights and not leaving him alone and testing obsessively if he was even 150, and bombarding this forum, crying uncontrollably, thinking he was dying, and would not give insulin until I received assistance here, but wouldn't you know, just see his Spreadsheet down below, and now I sleep even when he has 70's, this is where he needs to be, Vets like to keep our cats in those numbers, more vet visits, they do not tell you that you cat needs to have a diet consisting of wet can food between 0-10% carbs, I could never be happier with Corky's spreadsheet, now is when all my stress is gone, the fears of losing him and panic attacks; believe me IT is worth it. For me and Corky, this is where we need to be, the information and accessible information in this Forum by the dedicated members is all I need for Corky, they have more updated knowledge that many Vets, they are mostly used to Dog diabetes if that, and they treat as that dogs. It was very hard for me at first to even conceive 100's BGs , but we have come far from that fear, now I worry if there are 3 blues in a day!

Actually, I am starting to feel less scared shooting with low numbers, mainly because I am currently just giving small doses. But if the dose is 2 units and above, I don't think I can do it at the present (LOL). I know I need to work on getting comfortable shooting with greens.

 

[CORKY]

Actually, I am starting to feel less scared shooting with low numbers, mainly because I am currently just giving small doses. But if the dose is 2 units and above, I don't think I can do it at the present (LOL). I know I need to work on getting comfortable shooting with greens.

Trust me it took a lot out of me to get there, scared to death! Now is like a walk in the park

 

[Chris & China (GA)]

The key is to "Know Thy Cat". It won't happen quickly. You have to learn how YOUR cat reacts to foods and insulin and it can take time (sometimes a lot of it) before you start to recognize something resembling a pattern, but you can get there!

Take a look at China's spreadsheet (if you go back too far some of the formatting didn't copy, but you can get the idea) https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1kuIPGmOqvVefF6i0XfYnBXsn4CMEYcHC9xhNbYWHQyA/edit?usp=sharing

What I did was start shooting at 6am. That way, I could make appointments and do shopping and errands after nadir (usually anytime aften noon'ish). I had learned her pattern so well that I knew if she was good at noon, she'd be fine the rest of the day. It also allowed me to shoot at 6pm and I could stay up until at least midnight to get that +6 in so if she was doing well then, I didn't have to worry about sleeping the rest of the night. Did I hate getting up that early? YES! I am NOT a morning person!...but it was worth it to be able to keep her safe by being able to test until I knew she'd be OK the rest of the time so I could make my plans for things I needed or wanted to do. (I also got to the point where I could test/feed/shoot at 6am without fully waking up and then go back to sleep for a few hours).

No, it doesn't happen overnight for the vast majority of cats. It can take months, but knowing I was keeping her as healthy as possible while also knowing she was safe was worth all the missed appointments, canceled plans and disappointed family members for the first 6-8 months. It's not for everybody though! (and I freely admit I was a testoholic).

Garfield has an entirely different pattern from China, which drove me nuts for awhile, but now I understand it and know when I can do my own thing, and when I need to stick a little closer to home. (his link is in my signature)

Also, give yourself permission to skip a shot if there's something really special you want to do. It's important to not have your life totally wrapped up in your cat. We've had people skip to go to Elton John concerts (I would have too), special birthdays, as well as just getting out of the house one night to see a movie you're just dying to see.

 

[CORKY]

The key is to "Know Thy Cat". It won't happen quickly. You have to learn how YOUR cat reacts to foods and insulin and it can take time (sometimes a lot of it) before you start to recognize something resembling a pattern, but you can get there!

Take a look at China's spreadsheet (if you go back too far some of the formatting didn't copy, but you can get the idea) https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1kuIPGmOqvVefF6i0XfYnBXsn4CMEYcHC9xhNbYWHQyA/edit?usp=sharing

What I did was start shooting at 6am. That way, I could make appointments and do shopping and errands after nadir (usually anytime aften noon'ish). I had learned her pattern so well that I knew if she was good at noon, she'd be fine the rest of the day. It also allowed me to shoot at 6pm and I could stay up until at least midnight to get that +6 in so if she was doing well then, I didn't have to worry about sleeping the rest of the night. Did I hate getting up that early? YES! I am NOT a morning person!...but it was worth it to be able to keep her safe by being able to test until I knew she'd be OK the rest of the time so I could make my plans for things I needed or wanted to do. (I also got to the point where I could test/feed/shoot at 6am without fully waking up and then go back to sleep for a few hours).

No, it doesn't happen overnight for the vast majority of cats. It can take months, but knowing I was keeping her as healthy as possible while also knowing she was safe was worth all the missed appointments, canceled plans and disappointed family members for the first 6-8 months was well worth it to me. It's not for everybody though! (and I freely admit I was a testoholic).

Garfield has an entirely different pattern from China, which drove me nuts for awhile, but now I understand it and know when I can do my own thing, and when I need to stick a little closer to home. (his link is in my signature)

I also shoot at 6&6 Just make sure that after shooting test again @+2 that’s 2 hours after shooting to make sure he’s just right for you to run errands at first I would do my errands after +4 or 10AM and stay away 2 hours at a time and little by little I began to learn Corky’s daily patterns, although Corky has a mind of his own, there were times I would cancel an appointment or 2, afraid to leave, but it does take a bit of time so don’t rush your efforts , now I know I can leave 3 hours when needed and everything is ok, he enjoys the attention You are doing great!! Good job!!

 

[Laurie&Petey]

for the first 6-8 months was well worth it to me. It's not for everybody though! (and I freely admit I was a testoholic).

Thank you everyone for taking the time to respond. It really helps to hear the different experiences and what works for everyone and that others feel/felt the same way. I'll need to hear it a thousand more times

I'm lucky to be home most of the time, I can't imagine having to navigate this with a demanding schedule. I knew when I adopted a 12-14yo cat, we would go through some stuff. This is my first diabetes experience and I'm sure I will get more brave as time passes and I understand his patterns. It is helpful to hear that may take... many, many months.

Petey's been in a bounce and if he has a pattern started he should have a good surf tomorrow.

 

[CORKY]

Thank you everyone for taking the time to respond. It really helps to hear the different experiences and what works for everyone and that others feel/felt the same way. I'll need to hear it a thousand more times

I'm lucky to be home most of the time, I can't imagine having to navigate this with a demanding schedule. I knew when I adopted a 12-14yo cat, we would go through some stuff. This is my first diabetes experience and I'm sure I will get more brave as time passes and I understand his patterns. It is helpful to hear that may take... many, many months.

Petey's been in a bounce and if he has a pattern started he should have a good surf tomorrow.

We are here for you and most of us have bitter sweet times with our precious furr babies

 

[Laurie&Petey]

You are doing great!! Good job!!

Thank you <deep breath>

 

[Tim & Pookey]

Sienne and Chris made great points! I think the potential for remission is what a lot of people are after. The way I see it, I’ll sacrifice plans that I didn’t want to go to anyways (lol) to give him the absolute best shot at remission in the first couple months. Imagine only testing like once a week…

 

[SmallestSparrow]

It’s frustrating and scary taking care of a diabetic cat—always in the beginning and sometimes well into it. It’s normal to ask the questions you are asking. and it will become less scary So you will be able to go about your day with blue numbers—but you should be asking yourself about changes necessary in your life if you want your cat to run in double digits—from changing dinner plans to testing with a hand held meter frequently.

This is a marathon not a sprint. What goals are best, what regimen is best, is the one that is sustainable over many years for you and Petey. I agree that many who have their cats always in double digits seem to work from home or be retired and spend the day poking and feeding their cat. Some do not need to do this—I suspect that has everything to do with the cat’s unique medical situation and not what the pet parent does. You may have to get up early so the nadir is later allows you a window of free time on which you can count.

I personally am not convinced green is the key to remission—there are some very well known cats here who lived in double digits yet remained diabetic. There have been cats who were extremely loosely monitored go into remission. I’ve only been on the forum six months and have seen more cats go into remission regardless of what was done than go into remission by chasing green. And many chase green to no avail. This is of course anecdotal.

Studies have been done that show cats on TR go into remission and studies that show that cats on Prozinc who do only preshot testing (I think it was once a month) at their vet also went into remission at a very high rate (perhaps it was 56% https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6417615

Correlation is not causation. You can find a study that supports anything you want. There is a great debate going on in human medicine right now about tight control in humans—that it may have more risks to health than loose control. So that’s interesting. Again, studies on both sides. Is it worth staying in green just in case —I suppose but in my opinion ONLY if you are willing to do what it takes to prevent hypoglycemic episodes. Hypoglycemia —true hypoglycemia and not just a low Libre reading because the cat sleeps on the sensor—not only could kill the cat but each episode can cause significant damage. Perhaps the vet tech was trying to tell you not that Petey COULDNT reach 100 but rather not to run him to 100. Here are the AAHA guidelines for US veterinary treatment of diabetes. When vets tell members something contrary to what the forum says, it’s because they are following guidelines established by leaders in their field. That’s not to say the forum advice is wrong, just that it is often not AAHA guidance. https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5d114c155b044600014c00d7/t/5dd708d87870bf27b34e132e/1574373600737/diabetes guidelines_final.pdf

I think many cats who go into remission do so because they had a temporary set back to their pancreas or their glucose metabolic system, from infection to drugs. I wouldn’t be surprised if rather than greens causing remission they are the result of remission, that is the cat is healing and so green appears early and at times unexpectedly while on insulin. This as a result of the pancreas coming back on line in addition to the insulin, not because of it. In other words, greens are not healing, they are a sign of healing. but this is just a theory I have.

if I had a cat that might go into remission (I don’t) and I could always keep him from going hypo I *might* try it because I can arrange my life around his treatment and as long as I could avoid hypo it would be worth trying. That’s a lot of “ifs”. If people can’t do that —because of a number of reasons—they are NOT doing worse by their cat. Cats regulated on insulin lead happy lives.

 

[Laurie&Petey]

Sienne and Chris made great points! I think the potential for remission is what a lot of people are after. The way I see it, I’ll sacrifice plans that I didn’t want to go to anyways (lol) to give him the absolute best shot at remission in the first couple months. Imagine only testing like once a week…

I'm hoping for that too! Hopefully without harming him or worrying myself sick!

 

[Laurie&Petey]

if I had a cat that might go into remission

All very good points, thank you! Every cat is different and it's baffling to see some in the greens for years but not otj, while others bounce all around and are actually going into remission?!

I'd like to believe the vet tech was just trying to keep Petey in a safer zone haha I'm glad we have the forum, cause our vet has been anything but impressive and I think it's cause they don't know a lot about cat diabetes, every case is dramatically different, and it's time consuming and time is money! They charge me an $80 libre data analysis fee every time a sensor gets put on. The first one, wasn't put on right, the second fell off in 2 days, the third lasted 4 days, the last one almost a week. And what did $320 in analysis fees get me: two 3min phone calls and an email that it's safe to increase his dose -none of which came from his actual Dr.! The vets I want to get in with have a waitlist.

I'm hopeful for a gradual, safe transition otj for Petey!

Have a safe and happy Sunday!

 

[Sienne and Gabby (GA)]

There are a couple of thoughts I'd add to Colleen's (SmallestSparrow) post is that the AAHA guidelines regarding blood glucose numbers. First, the Tight Regulation Protocol was developed based on the use of Lantus and Levemir and is based on several studies that were published some time ago. Roomp & Rand made a considerable contribution to data based research. Part of the research took place at University of Queensland where Rand was on faculty and was a feline specialist. Unlike at most academic institutions where they are trying to do research on feline diabetes, Jacqui Rand, DVM reached out to Kirstin Roomp, PhD who is a biomedical researcher and involved with a feline diabetes forum in Germany (or maybe Luxembourg). As a result, they had a larger sample size than one typically sees. They had members who were willing to participate in the research. This allowed them to implement TR with a "real life" sample of cats and make adjustments to the protocol as well as underscore the need for home testing. The AAHA guidelines incorporate research into their conclusions but the AAHA authors did not do the research themselves.

The one aspect of the AAHA guidelines that I would speculate about is that the recommendations are general statements -- well informed general statements but generalizations. I would suspect that their guidelines are meant to apply to all insulin used with cats, not just Lantus/glargine and Prozinc. Thus, the shorter acting, harsher insulins such as Novolin or Vetsulin are factored in. We are much more cautious about Novolin and Vetsulin since they pull numbers down quickly. The other aspect that can have an impact on practicing vets is that they recognize the danger of a symptomatic hypoglycemic episode. The majority of caregivers are not encouraged to home test or are reticent/refuse to do so. The vet does not want to be in a position where his/her instructions resulted in hypoglycemia and will look toward keeping the cat in higher numbers than we suggest. (However, our suggestions are based on the TR Protocol which is evidence based and has a great track record, better than what Colleen cited, for getting newly diagnosed cats using Lantus into remission.)

We do see cats that go into remission surprisingly quickly and easily. We've also seen cats that go into remission after 2+ years and the caregiver was following TR closely. And I'm a good example of a caregiver whose cat never went into remission even after 6.5 years. A lot can depend on what may contribute to the development of diabetes. One example is steroid induced diabetes. Some cats that are prescribed a steroid develop diabetes. Many of those cats, once the steroid is stopped and insulin started, go into remission. Infections or inflammation can be a trigger for diabetes. And, of course, a cat may have a genetic predisposition to develop diabetes. Many of us hope that our cat will achieve remission and do our best to get our kitty there. Sometimes, it's just not in the cards.

What I would point out is that Petey is more than his blood glucose numbers. Whether you opt for remission or regulation, the goal is that your cat is happy and healthy. Even with remission, Petey will still be a diet controlled diabetic. You may not be giving him insulin, but you shouldn't be feeding him the kitty equivalent of candy, cake, and ice cream.

 

[Laurie&Petey]

practicing vets is that they recognize the danger of a symptomatic hypoglycemic episode

Totally understand this and putting the fear of God into me/others about that very real danger is SO important! It should not be taken lightly or left to chance. I love facts and figures and studies thank you!

 

[CORKY]

Thank you everyone for taking the time to respond. It really helps to hear the different experiences and what works for everyone and that others feel/felt the same way. I'll need to hear it a thousand more times

I'm lucky to be home most of the time, I can't imagine having to navigate this with a demanding schedule. I knew when I adopted a 12-14yo cat, we would go through some stuff. This is my first diabetes experience and I'm sure I will get more brave as time passes and I understand his patterns. It is helpful to hear that may take... many, many months.

Petey's been in a bounce and if he has a pattern started he should have a good surf tomorrow.

Seeing some yellows this morning, this is Good!!

 

[Heike & BInie]

All very good points, thank you! Every cat is different and it's baffling to see some in the greens for years but not otj, while others bounce all around and are actually going into remission?!

I'd like to believe the vet tech was just trying to keep Petey in a safer zone haha I'm glad we have the forum, cause our vet has been anything but impressive and I think it's cause they don't know a lot about cat diabetes, every case is dramatically different, and it's time consuming and time is money! They charge me an $80 libre data analysis fee every time a sensor gets put on. The first one, wasn't put on right, the second fell off in 2 days, the third lasted 4 days, the last one almost a week. And what did $320 in analysis fees get me: two 3min phone calls and an email that it's safe to increase his dose -none of which came from his actual Dr.! The vets I want to get in with have a waitlist.

I'm hopeful for a gradual, safe transition otj for Petey!

Have a safe and happy Sunday!

There is no need to pay the vet to put the sensor on. I highly recommend the facebook group "Fresstyle libre for cats and dogs". In their tutorials you will learn how to put it on yourself. It is easier than one thinks. As soon as I started doing that I almost ever get the full 14 days out of it. Good luck!

 

[Rae's Family]

Looking at all of your spreadsheets, I'm shocked to see most of your kitties on <3u of insulin... My vet said most cats are on ~8u. I've just started giving Rae 5u this week and she's still in the pinks. Am I not understanding the spreadsheets right?? I can't wrap my head around getting greens and blues with 1.5u...

 

[CORKY]

There is no need to pay the vet to put the sensor on. I highly recommend the facebook group "Fresstyle libre for cats and dogs". In their tutorials you will learn how to put it on yourself. It is easier than one thinks. As soon as I started doing that I almost ever get the full 14 days out of it. Good luck!

You are right, it is so easy to place the sensor yourself, in the box are elementary instructions, the only thing you need to do re shave the area where the sensor was, make sure the skin is dry, I suggest you keep the box of every new sensor, since many do not last the 14 days, they are guaranteed, you call the customer service number on the box, do not tell them is for your cat or they will not replace it, you need it right away, so ask for 48 hour shipment, they will ask you all the numbers in back of the box, and several information located within the monitor, they ask you to return the bad one, but I never did, they must've send me about 10 replacements, you can get a PRN prescription(1 year) for the sensor to your vet, this way you do not have to pay a vet visit every 14 days, or placement of the sensor, and Walmart Pharmacy has the best price, take the script with DOB of Binie, and every time you need one you just go get it!, tricks of the trade of learning and not having $$ extra to spend And great to see a blue BG!!!!

 

[Laurie&Petey]

Looking at all of your spreadsheets, I'm shocked to see most of your kitties on <3u of insulin... My vet said most cats are on ~8u. I've just started giving Rae 5u this week and she's still in the pinks. Am I not understanding the spreadsheets right?? I can't wrap my head around getting greens and blues with 1.5u...

Hi Rae's Family! I just saw someone else's SS and they were giving 8u and that shocked me -but it might have to do with the type of insulin. Have you looked at the carbs in the food you're feeding? I now know dry food is no good and most are 30%+ carbs and prescriptions are also wayyyy more carbs than we want our kitties on. I've always felt the prescription foods are a racket any how, no matter what it is for! Just like human doctors, nutrition is never the main topic of conversation.

 

[Rae's Family]

Hi Rae's Family! I just saw someone else's SS and they were giving 8u and that shocked me -but it might have to do with the type of insulin. Have you looked at the carbs in the food you're feeding? I now know dry food is no good and most are 30%+ carbs and prescriptions are also wayyyy more carbs than we want our kitties on. I've always felt the prescription foods are a racket any how, no matter what it is for! Just like human doctors, nutrition is never the main topic of conversation.

Yeah, after doing some reading on here, definitely want to get her off the dry food. I'm just nervous to try because of how high a dose she's on and what I've seen here about removing dry food causing dramatically lower numbers... I'm talking with @Sienne and Gabby (GA) on my intro post about dosing because it's just not making sense!

 

[Laurie&Petey]

Yeah, after doing some reading on here, definitely want to get her off the dry food. I'm just nervous to try because of how high a dose she's on and what I've seen here about removing dry food causing dramatically lower numbers... I'm talking with @Sienne and Gabby (GA) on my intro post about dosing because it's just not making sense!

Someone with more experience can guide you, but I think that's a safe bet to slowly make that change. The ER had told us to not make any diet changes right away, but I had to cause he didn't want to eat the food that he thought was making him sick, so we started with a clean slate right off the bat and he was only started on 1u.

 

[CORKY]

Someone with more experience can guide you, but I think that's a safe bet to slowly make that change. The ER had told us to not make any diet changes right away, but I had to cause he didn't want to eat the food that he thought was making him sick, so we started with a clean slate right off the bat and he was only started on 1u.

Nice blue @ +7, and yes the food transition should be done slowly and testing BG often at least for several cycles, like I always say all cats are different, some cats take the transition quite quickly without any changes in BGs, I did not know any better when I made the transition from dry MeauMix, for 10 years, to instant Fancy Feast, as soon as I was told that's what he needed to eat, I just drastically went from kibble to FF, thank to God, it all went well, but it is good to do a slow transition as long as you are home to test every two hours at least for the first day or two

 

[CORKY]

Looking at all of your spreadsheets, I'm shocked to see most of your kitties on <3u of insulin... My vet said most cats are on ~8u. I've just started giving Rae 5u this week and she's still in the pinks. Am I not understanding the spreadsheets right?? I can't wrap my head around getting greens and blues with 1.5u...

Have you discussed with your vet to perhaps change to a better insulin like Lantus or ProZinc?, and your Bgs are high due to the "prescribed" food you are feeding, that food contains anywhere between 14-25% carbs, maybe tapering a bit towards wet would help to get a lower BGs

 

[Ailish’s Brother]

Previous post

Don't get me wrong, I understand the greens are the goal and where our kitties need to be, but at what cost? Watching and reading posts, while envious of all the green surfs, I watch people cancel plans, stay up all night to feed and test, stay home all day, or have people come over to monitor. And all the fear of what and when to feed and shoot and will they keep going lower?!!

I'm new, so stressing and changing my plans for the yellows and blues is comical in comparison! But I am trying to wrap my head around is it safe to artificially get them to the green and at what point, if ever, do you stop worrying if they'll go too low?

I can kinda understand why the vet never recommended home testing and most vets seem to think 200 - 300 is good enough. One can drive themselves, and others nuts chasing numbers! I had a vet tech tell me Petey would never get to 100, she was so adamant she repeated herself! I bit my tongue and just thought then maybe you should learn more so you can do your job better for Pete's sake!

For those who are regulated in the greens, have you stopped worrying if they'll go too low? Is it bad to be comfy in the blues?

No one ever said this would be easy and I'm just having an emotional moment I guess. On the bright side, since we adopted Petey a couple years ago, he never cuddled and since being diagnosed he's been a wicked cuddle bug most days and nights and I'm thankful for our new bond.

Z

I wanna echo what Colleen (smallest sparrow) said, the best approach for you and Petey is the one you can maintain. Aiming for perfect is great but if you burn out aiming for that you can’t help Petey.

I see you’re using “SLGS” in your signature, so I wanted to share this section on the protocol in relation to your question about lower numbers:

Reducing or skipping is an option in this protocol. As you get more experienced you may decide to shoot lower, but I know skipping or reduced doses has been necessary for me sometimes when I knew I could not watch my old girl too closely.

Keep in mind that you want to keep an eye on ketones if you’re skipping/ reducing doses. A blood ketone meter is one of the best stress-saving investments I’ve made on this journey. Here is the one I use: https://www.google.com/aclk?sa=L&ai...lq3s3pSLAxW_rokEHfvDK_EQwg8oAHoECAUQDA&adurl=

It also helps to find a vet whose approach matches yours and that you trust.

Hang in there, like others have said it’s a marathon not a sprint. I hope you find an aprouch that works for you and Perry’s needs!

 

[Laurie&Petey]

Hang in there, like others have said it’s a marathon not a sprint. I hope you find an aprouch that works for you and Perry’s needs

thank you! I most certainly want what's best for Petey without harming him. Very grateful for everyone here, from the newbie to the long timer, just invaluable information and support.

 

[CORKY]

thank you! I most certainly want what's best for Petey without harming him. Very grateful for everyone here, from the newbie to the long timer, just invaluable information and support.

We are here for you!!

 

[CORKY]

We are here for you!!

SmallestSparro is correct, it has taken almost 2 years to see Corky in constant greens, and still, by AMPS he still reaches blue numbers, is my belief that even with his green pattern he is one of the diabetic cats that will be a lifetime diabetic, even with his only 0-4% carb diet, and me being an obsessive tester every 3 hours, as much as I want to test less, I feel like if I don't I will miss something, that fear I guess, will always be there as healthy as he is, encountering FD or any diabetes for the first time and all I went thru at the beginning, left scars

 

[Laurie&Petey]

SmallestSparro is correct, it has taken almost 2 years to see Corky in constant greens, and still, by AMPS he still reaches blue numbers, is my belief that even with his green pattern he is one of the diabetic cats that will be a lifetime diabetic, even with his only 0-4% carb diet, and me being an obsessive tester every 3 hours, as much as I want to test less, I feel like if I don't I will miss something, that fear I guess, will always be there as healthy as he is, encountering FD or any diabetes for the first time and all I went thru at the beginning, left scars

Corky has the best Mama!

 

[Hendrick Cuddleclaw]

1000 times yes, the greens are completely totally worth every bit of effort and stress and worry, imo. Especially if the greens end up producing diabetic remission and a diet-controlled diabetic feline, like they did for my boy.

I owe a debt I can never repay to this forum and the wonderful people here.

 

[MinnerPip]

Looking at all of your spreadsheets, I'm shocked to see most of your kitties on <3u of insulin... My vet said most cats are on ~8u. I've just started giving Rae 5u this week and she's still in the pinks. Am I not understanding the spreadsheets right?? I can't wrap my head around getting greens and blues with 1.5u...

Hi. Minner is a high dose kitty, currently at 7.25. Bell is also high dose kitty (bluesunshine, human is Seth). Bell was at 8 and just earned a reduction. Both Minner and Bell are IAA positive, meaning they have antibodies to insulin.

 

[CORKY]

Hi. Minner is a high dose kitty, currently at 7.25. Bell is also high dose kitty (bluesunshine, human is Seth). Bell was at 8 and just earned a reduction. Both Minner and Bell are IAA positive, meaning they have antibodies to insulin.

@Sienne and Gabby (GA)
@Bron and Sheba (GA)

 

[Suzanne & Darcy]

I was going to say the same thing about goals. It depends if you want to go for remission or just regulation. There’s nothing wrong with regulation. I also shot early and planned things like Chris said. When you know your cat’s patterns you can work around them. Sometimes I took Darcy places with me just so I could test him at a certain time (if I was concerned.). He was a good traveler in the car though. Occasionally, I shot a reduced dose if I needed to be gone a long time. I can be a control freak though and was a testaholic. You will find your way … and, as others have said, be sure to take care of yourself! Also, reach out for support like you have done today. It’s a great community here!