? Picchou suddenly getting better numbers, reliability of relion vs libre

L

lantuslantus1234

Member
HI all,

Picchou was diagnosed in early January with diabetes with numbers in the 500 and pancreatitis as well as an unknown mass on his liver. After a bunch of challenges, and a 2 night hospitalization, (you can see my history on the board) he has been on Lantus for a while.
We were not seeing improvement in the regulation of his blood glucose, our vet was fairly pessimistic. He was mostly hovering at 300-350+ with a sudden drop to below 200 and a spike right after over the course of maybe an hour. . We switched him slowly to low carb wet food (fancy feast, then tikki cat). Over the last month, our vet suggested we stopped the libre which made him miserable, and check his fructosamine regularly instead. His fructosamine result was looking slightly better 4 weeks ago but his numbers were still not good.
Our vet suggested we go to 1.75 ui for 2 weeks and test again. They did not think we should prick him everyday so I have no data. On 3/14 we went to get his tests done his BG was still 300 and his numbers (fructosamine and kidkey/liver numbers) were a bit worse.
We upped him to 2ui on 3/15 based on vet advice. In the last week we also stopped kibbles altogether (he was vomitting them) and succeeded to have him solely eat low carb tikki wet food (3.5-4 cans a day). He was doing seemingly better and eating well. Another thing that changed is we started a new Lantus vial on 3/9 since the other one was 60 days old.
Yesterday, we got him set up with another Libre as we are supposed to be away for a week. (with twice daily vet care). This was VERY stressful for him. We had to up his gabapentin for the visit and that did not help. The sensor registered at low sugar (53), worked for a bit then went into error for 10 hours and started working again around midnight.
We purchased a Reli on Premier Classic and started pricking for the first time last night.

Here is what we got:
2pm: Libre 53-60
7.30pm: Reli on 119
midnight: Reli on 153, Libre 112
7am: Reli on 211, Libre 87
8am: Reli on 192, Libre 81

We tried bringing him to the vet to get his BG tested but he was not having any of it. We are now avoiding the vet, it seems to send him into a frenzy. He did not eat well yesterday, he is eating a bit better today.
He did have gravy high carb wet food yesterday when we thought he had low BG.

I am at a loss to see such "good" numbers suddenly. I am assuming something his off with the Libre sensor, but also wondering if the Reli on could also be bad. in the last 3 months we have never seen such good numbers he barely dropped to 200 for 30 minutes at a time once in a while. I tested the Reli on against an old Reli on I had (with my blood) and they read similar.

Is such a "recovery" possible? The timing of it really worries us. We would be leaving on Friday for a week, we were already nervous but now we are wondering if this is an improvement before he gets worse.
 
lantuslantus1234 said:
HI all,

Picchou was diagnosed in early January with diabetes with numbers in the 500 and pancreatitis as well as an unknown mass on his liver. After a bunch of challenges, and a 2 night hospitalization, (you can see my history on the board) he has been on Lantus for a while.
We were not seeing improvement in the regulation of his blood glucose, our vet was fairly pessimistic. He was mostly hovering at 300-350+ with a sudden drop to below 200 and a spike right after over the course of maybe an hour. . We switched him slowly to low carb wet food (fancy feast, then tikki cat). Over the last month, our vet suggested we stopped the libre which made him miserable, and check his fructosamine regularly instead. His fructosamine result was looking slightly better 4 weeks ago but his numbers were still not good.
Our vet suggested we go to 1.75 ui for 2 weeks and test again. They did not think we should prick him everyday so I have no data. On 3/14 we went to get his tests done his BG was still 300 and his numbers (fructosamine and kidkey/liver numbers) were a bit worse.
We upped him to 2ui on 3/15 based on vet advice. In the last week we also stopped kibbles altogether (he was vomitting them) and succeeded to have him solely eat low carb tikki wet food (3.5-4 cans a day). He was doing seemingly better and eating well. Another thing that changed is we started a new Lantus vial on 3/9 since the other one was 60 days old.
Yesterday, we got him set up with another Libre as we are supposed to be away for a week. (with twice daily vet care). This was VERY stressful for him. We had to up his gabapentin for the visit and that did not help. The sensor registered at low sugar (53), worked for a bit then went into error for 10 hours and started working again around midnight.
We purchased a Reli on Premier Classic and started pricking for the first time last night.

Here is what we got:
2pm: Libre 53-60
7.30pm: Reli on 119
midnight: Reli on 153, Libre 112
7am: Reli on 211, Libre 87
8am: Reli on 192, Libre 81

We tried bringing him to the vet to get his BG tested but he was not having any of it. We are now avoiding the vet, it seems to send him into a frenzy. He did not eat well yesterday, he is eating a bit better today.
He did have gravy high carb wet food yesterday when we thought he had low BG.

I am at a loss to see such "good" numbers suddenly. I am assuming something his off with the Libre sensor, but also wondering if the Reli on could also be bad. in the last 3 months we have never seen such good numbers he barely dropped to 200 for 30 minutes at a time once in a while. I tested the Reli on against an old Reli on I had (with my blood) and they read similar.

Is such a "recovery" possible? The timing of it really worries us. We would be leaving on Friday for a week, we were already nervous but now we are wondering if this is an improvement before he gets worse.
Click to expand...

@Bron and Sheba (GA)
 
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a quick update, Picchou has been going from 128 (was closer to 211 on Relion) this morning on the Libre and dropping steadily to LO (under 47) since. Now it is in sensor error.
We do believe the Libre sensor is out of whack but it is stressful. I am trying to get thim to eat, while not pushing carbs just yet as I am not convinced the numbers are correct and he could be in a normal range based on Relion difference with Libre.
 
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The libre is unreliable when the BGs drop under100. I would definitely trust the ReliOn meter over the libre at numbers under 100.
I would start testing with the ReliOn meter from now on and ditch the libre. Just relying on a fructosamine test every so often is not a safe way of doing this. In the old days that is all they had but now we have glucose meters and that is the only way you can truely keep your kitty safe.

If you have got rid of the dry food completely, this could well be the reason you are seeing much better numbers.
 
Thanks, we are done with Libre for sure. what a waste of money. The vet (current one is ooo) tells me that the only way to test his BG is to come in and use Alphatrac. And told us to trust libre over relion (??). I know from this forum that Relion sounds perfectly fine. I am not bringing him in unless he is really unwell, he is just too stressed about it. We are still considering buying the alphatrac for peace of mind. But everyone here seems so fine with Reli on.
Appetite is slowly coming back and he tested at 175 pre insuline shot tonite.
 
@lantuslantus1234

I used the Relion meter and got Tyler into remission for over 3 years until he passed from cancer
If you are going to ditch the Libre please add to you signature that you are going to stay with the Relioni would do it this way Libre/ Relion and the date you switched

Also on your spreadsheet up top do the same Libre 3/ Relion and the date you switched.
We like members to put a blank line above the date you switch and you can just put Relion Now and highlight it and color so it stands out
 
lantuslantus1234 said:
Thanks, we are done with Libre for sure. what a waste of money. The vet (current one is ooo) tells me that the only way to test his BG is to come in and use Alphatrac. And told us to trust libre over relion (??). I know from this forum that Relion sounds perfectly fine. I am not bringing him in unless he is really unwell, he is just too stressed about it. We are still considering buying the alphatrac for peace of mind. But everyone here seems so fine with Reli on.
Appetite is slowly coming back and he tested at 175 pre insuline shot tonite.
Click to expand...
@Bron and Sheba (GA)
 
@lantuslantus1234
Where you put Relion Only on your spreadsheet can you put Relion Only on the blank line in the beginning also and highlight it any color so it stands out. Only because I had to keep swiping to see it . Will you be using it from now on and not use the Libre anymore
Can you put the date Picchu was diagnosed in your signature. I see it was 1-6-25 only because that's the first thing members will look for.
You can just put DX 1-6-25
Just tap on your name up top and then tap on signature and add it then tap save

Thanks :cat:
 
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I have made the update your requestes although i may have to do the spreadsheet update from a computer.
We are definitely done with Libre. it is nice when it works but it is nothing but problem and malfunctions so often. we got three faulty sensor out of 6. and he hates the application.
Pricking has been challenging though. we tried to look at many tutorials but dont always get any or enough blood.
I am still waiting for the other shoe to drop or something really bad to happen
he is on 1.75. his appetite isnt great still, and he is a bit sluggish. Yesterday he was the most energetic we have seen him in a while but also at one point got confused, lookes wobbly and out of it.
 
@lantuslantus1234
Hi there ok if you are going to use the Relion from now on we like you to add that to your signature. So after you have Libre 3 in your signature you need to put after it /Relion 3-26-25
Thanks for doing all the updates is there anyway you can highlight the line where you have Relion any color you want to and up top after you put Relion also add the date
Usually that's what they like us to do so it stands out

Take a look at this members spreadsheet , tap on it and see how he colored the blank line when he switched to a different dosing method. He colored it orange
https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/3-26-admiral-ackbar-amps-82.299486/#post-3257335
 
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lantuslantus1234 said:
I have made the update your requestes although i may have to do the spreadsheet update from a computer.
We are definitely done with Libre. it is nice when it works but it is nothing but problem and malfunctions so often. we got three faulty sensor out of 6. and he hates the application.
Pricking has been challenging though. we tried to look at many tutorials but dont always get any or enough blood.
I am still waiting for the other shoe to drop or something really bad to happen
he is on 1.75. his appetite isnt great still, and he is a bit sluggish. Yesterday he was the most energetic we have seen him in a while but also at one point got confused, looks wobbly and out of it.
Click to expand...
@Bron and Sheba (GA)
Bron I had her make the updates to her signature and spreadsheet , she will add Relion to her signature also

@lantuslantus1234
I tagged @Bron and Sheba (GA) again for you
 
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lantuslantus1234 said:
Pricking has been challenging though. we tried to look at many tutorials but dont always get any or enough blood.
Click to expand...
@lantuslantus1234

Maybe this will help
Always aim for the sweet spot warm the ears up first, you can put rice in a sock and put it in the microwave, test it on the inside of your wrist to be sure it's not to hot, like you would test a babies bottle. You can fill a pill bottle with warm water and roll it on the ears also.Just keep rubbing the ears with your fingers to warm them up
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6. As the ears get used to bleeding and grow more capillaries it gets easier to get the amount of blood you need on the first try. If he won’t stand still, you can get the blood onto a clean finger nail and test from there.
When you do get some blood you can try milking the ear.
Get you finger and gently push up toward the blood , more will appear
You will put the cotton round behind his ear in case you poke your finger, after you are done testing you will fold the cotton round over his ear to stop the bleeding , press gently for about 10 or 20 seconds until it stops
Get 26 or 28 gauge lancets any brand
A lot of us use the lancets to test freehand not the lancing device
I find it better to see where I'm aiming
Look at the lancet under a light and you will see one side is curved upward, that's the side you want to poke with

Try putting a thin layer of Vaseline on the ear so the blood will bead up
 
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Thank you for all the advice. I tried to make all the updates requested, please let me know if this isnt right.
Picchou continues to track under 130, with only low carb wet food.He has tested at 112 before both meals.

The vet keeps pushing the Alpha trak but we are going to continue with the Relion for now as the Alpha would not arrive before we leave on our trip anyway. We can check if the numbers are good when we are back, at the vet. He does not seem to feel that great but we will see how things evolve.

Has anyone had issues with meowing/crying with any use of the litter? We have mentioned it several times to the vet and we give him gabapentin in case he is in pain with his pancreatitis, but I am just wondering if this is common. At this point, given his numbers look better and his appetite is better (not great yet), this is the last concerning item we dont seen to resolve or help him with. I give him pumpkin puree once a week and he is not constipated. He meows before the litter, and after. He was always quite vocal but it seems very obvious now. We did change his litter set up right around the time he got diagnosed, but if anything, it is more accessible, more open. We use the tidy cats breeze system with the pellets. It also helps with testing ketones when we need to.
 
Not sure what you want me to comment on.
If he’s vocal before and after using kitty litter he may have some pain either from a UTI or constipation.
The ReliOn meter is absolutely fine to use and much cheaper and our fusing methods are based on the human meter numbers.
Can you get any tests in during the cycles?
 
Hi everyone.
We tested mid day and we seem to be on a downward trend. Piccjous number started in the am, preshot at 105. Midday (+4) was 92. 92 was also where he was tonight. He has been steadily dropping since we started testing Monday.

Are we supposed to drop again or are we suppose to hold the dose? We held back a dose Monday night since Libre was giving very low number.

I am looking at the guidelines but it talks about 300 valuea pre shot.
 
lantuslantus1234 said:
Hi everyone.
We tested mid day and we seem to be on a downward trend. Piccjous number started in the am, preshot at 105. Midday (+4) was 92. 92 was also where he was tonight. He has been steadily dropping since we started testing Monday.

Are we supposed to drop again or are we suppose to hold the dose? We held back a dose Monday night since Libre was giving very low number.

I am looking at the guidelines but it talks about 300 valuea pre shot.
Click to expand...
@Bron and Sheba (GA)
@Sienne and Gabby (GA)
@Angela & Cleo
@tiffmaxee

I just asked the member if she skipped since I saw 0 on her spreadsheet for tonight's dose
I assume she should have stayed with the same dose since she is following SLGS and her kitty didn't drop under 90 ?
 
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@lantuslantus1234
Just saw this did you skip the dose for tonight?
This is from the SLGS sticky
Hold the dose for at least a week:
  • Unless your cat won’t eat or you suspect hypoglycemia
  • Unless your kitty falls below 90 mg/dL (5 mmol/L). If kitty falls below 90 mg/dL (5 mmol/L) decrease the dose by 0.25 unit immediately.
After 1 week at a given dose perform a 12 hour curve, testing every 2 hours OR perform an 18 hour curve, testing every 3 hours. Note: Random spot checks are often helpful to "fill in the blanks" on kitty's spreadsheet. The goal is to learn how low the current dose is dropping kitty prior to making dose adjustments.
  • If nadirs are more than 150 mg/dl (8.3 mmol/L), increase the dose by 0.25 unit
  • If nadirs are between 90 (5 mmol/L) and 149 mg/dl (8.2 mmol/L), maintain the same dose
  • If nadirs are below 90 mg/dl (5mmol/L), decrease the dose by 0.25 unit
 
Yes i skipped. We have seen a regular drop over the last few days, which is uncommon for him. We are going away on an unfortunately timed trip tomorrow nightv (we have vet care twice daily plus visits scheduled) and are really concerned about hypoglycemia. He went from 128->126->112->105->92 pre injection (am/pm) over the last few days since we started testing, and that is with reducing from 2 to 1.75. That constant decline scared us. We tested at +4 this afternoon and he was at 92 so we assumed he could have been below 90 a bit later. Also I refered to the other section in the FAQ about pre injection numbers being below 150. These drops are very uncharacteristic for him. We skipped and still tested at +95 at +3 hours. I am getting concerned that his BG is just constantly low. I thought he was suppose to be in the 200+ pre injection..with a curve?
He is not eating as much as he was last week or before Mondays vet visit. He is at about 3 cans.
 
We dropped to 1 UI today. he started the day at 147 pre insuline, and tested at +2 at 127 and +117 at +5, 98 at +8. I am hoping we can keep above 100 while gone.
I will contact our regular vet so she can advise on Monday.
 
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Hi everyone, I have no questions but I wanted to give people an update, aand maybe some positive news for those who are starting out like we were so little time ago.
You can see from my post history that things looked pretty dire just a couple of months ago, with our vet indicating that we were just not getting anywhere with regulating BG and other kidney values and liver values were worsening. We got as far as scheduling "the" appointment. But we just kept going, he did not seem quite there yet despite the numbers shown.
We successfully switched Picchu to an all wet food low carb diet (tikki cat is the only one he seems to like), and he is now doing way better.
He used to get 4 ui a day at his highest about a month ago when still eating some kibbles. He is now getting 1 ui a day. His lower BG numbers have been confirmed today!
At the vet, our Relion was 118, Alphatrak read at 166. We going to start using the Alphatrak given the difference is large enough that it can make a difference when we get a reading below 90. Our vet is clearly more comfortable with it too, so it should avoid us additional visits.
All to say, sometimes a small change makes a huge difference. He was at 300+ about a month ago. Not everything is solved but this is such a good turn of events, I felt like celebrating and also thanking this community for their support and dedication. so thank you!
 
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