01/02: Esse amps=475 Eyes, please? She's 500 at +9 531+11

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Michele and Esse

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Morning, all...

Yesterday's condo: viewtopic.php?f=9&t=741

PMPS +11=445

WCR: Name that tune: "and I'm gonna be high as a kite by then..." Sleepy...still giving her the meds, so that's part of it, I'm sure...but still. Just still.

I am wondering if, just if, the food I've been feeding may have made a difference. I gave some Friskies Mixed Grill, Poultry Platter (both on Binky's List), because I ran out of Wellness...but I switched to back to Wellness last night and have a few cans to work with. Anyone have any ideas? I'm trying to conserve financial resources, as the lump needs to be aspirated and Malachi needs to get neutered...but not at the cost of sugars this high.

I caught a ketone test last night before I went to bed, negative (thank God).

We'll see at the top of the hour where she is...

Best-
Michele
 
Re: 01/02: Esse PMPS+11=445...

Esse's an Elton John fan, eh? Tell that Rocket Feline to come on down!
 
Re: 01/02: Esse PMPS+11=445...

Rocket Man, eh? Well, if she is singing to Shadow, "He can't hear you, Esse!!!!" LOL
All good kitties have to meet on the lower level immediately....there's free mice and catnip for all!
Reds and Pinks are forbidden levels....c'mon down!
 
Re: 01/02: Esse PMPS+11=445...

Amy and Six said:
Esse's an Elton John fan, eh? Tell that Rocket Feline to come on down!
Click to expand...

Yes, indeed!!!! Quite well done. (I was debating some Tom Petty - but she convinced me that RocketCat was a better theme for this time.) I've told RocketCat to come down, but she just looks at me; she says "but you panic when I'm at normal, I'm just saving you worry..." how to deal with a cat's logic?? Well, at least her liver's working...sigh.

Best-
Michele
 
Re: 01/02: Esse PMPS+11=445...

I've told RocketCat to come down, but she just looks at me; she says "but you panic when I'm at normal, I'm just saving you worry..." how to deal with a cat's logic??
Click to expand...

LOL!!!
 
Re: 01/02: Esse amps=475

AMPS=475. Sigh.

I do remember leaving out a biscuit from yesterday - and it was on the floor this morning. I'm wondering if she didn't get into it. Of course, with 8 other cats, unless I catch them in the act, there is no real way to know who got it...and there wasn't much eaten, either...but it would be enough to spike her higher if she got it.

Then again, she's been high for a few days, so...maybe the biscuit was Malachi (he's been known to get onto the stove...whereas Esse does not...).

We'll see how this day goes...

Best-
Michele
 
Re: 01/02: Esse amps=475

Michele & Esse said:
I gave some Friskies Mixed Grill, Poultry Platter (both on Binky's List), because I ran out of Wellness...but I switched to back to Wellness last night and have a few cans to work with. Anyone have any ideas?
Click to expand...

A lot may depend on how carb sensitive Esse is. The Friskies is 7 - 8% carb. I'm assuming you've been feeding one of the Wellness that's approx. 4%. While both are LC, the Friskies could be double the amount of carbs.

I know you've toyed with the idea of raw food. That may be more economical. The initial investment if you buy the individual supplements will be a bit pricey but the stuff lasts. The pre-packaged supplements by Instincts/Feline Futures may also be an option. If you have a food processor or a grinder attachment to a stand mixer, you can buy boneless chicken or turkey. This is what I'm currently doing.

You probably have room to go up on your dose, but...Esse was in the blues on 12/31 and the dosing team may want to hold for another day to see if she has any action on this dose. I'm sure someone will be around to offer their advice.
 
Re: 01/02: Esse amps=475 +4=418

Sienne and Gabby said:
Michele & Esse said:
I gave some Friskies Mixed Grill, Poultry Platter (both on Binky's List), because I ran out of Wellness...but I switched to back to Wellness last night and have a few cans to work with. Anyone have any ideas?
Click to expand...

A lot may depend on how carb sensitive Esse is. The Friskies is 7 - 8% carb. I'm assuming you've been feeding one of the Wellness that's approx. 4%. While both are LC, the Friskies could be double the amount of carbs.
Click to expand...
Yes, I've been feeding the low carb Wellness. I'll continue to feed Wellness and see if it makes that much of a difference; if so, it'll be Wellness.

I know you've toyed with the idea of raw food. That may be more economical. The initial investment if you buy the individual supplements will be a bit pricey but the stuff lasts. The pre-packaged supplements by Instincts/Feline Futures may also be an option. If you have a food processor or a grinder attachment to a stand mixer, you can buy boneless chicken or turkey. This is what I'm currently doing.
Click to expand...
I have toyed with it...it would be far more economical than Wellness (three tall cans a day - adds up fast), but I'm going to have to investigate the details before I make the plunge. I can buy ground beef/chicken/turkey at my market, so grinding isn't a big deal...it's just I would have to learn a lot about things. And I'll have to put some $$ aside for the supplements before I start.

You probably have room to go up on your dose, but...Esse was in the blues on 12/31 and the dosing team may want to hold for another day to see if she has any action on this dose. I'm sure someone will be around to offer their advice.
Click to expand...
You know, I'm not at all sure I want to go higher at the moment...she's on meds (dex [steroid], baytril, and miconazole) (all topical) for her ear infection, and we just started this dose...I'm fairly sure all of that combined has sent her spiking high. She did go blue the other morning, and she went low green on 2.25...so I'm not sure if I should increase/bolus her once to make sure the shed is full, or to just leave it be for a few more days...

Her +4 is 418, so we'll see what happens today...

Best-
Michele
 
Re: 01/02: Esse amps=475 +4=418

Michele and Esse said:
You know, I'm not at all sure I want to go higher at the moment...she's on meds (dex [steroid], baytril, and miconazole) (all topical) for her ear infection, and we just started this dose...I'm fairly sure all of that combined has sent her spiking high. She did go blue the other morning, and she went low green on 2.25...so I'm not sure if I should increase/bolus her once to make sure the shed is full, or to just leave it be for a few more days...
Click to expand...

Since she got blue on this dose and she's only on the 7th cycle, we would normally hold for 10 cycles before considering an increase. Just a few more cycles. Please do test for ketones when you can, though.

There will be glucose toxicity building up from these numbers and we will have to most likely raise again to bust through them, but lets see what happens later today. :)
 
Re: 01/02: Esse amps=475

Cassandra, yes, let's see. She did come down to 418, and the last ketone check was negative.

I'm looking for her now to get a +6...but she may have found a good hiding place; I've checked all the usual ones, and nada. She's here, somewhere...just playing hide and seek...

Best-
Michele
 
Re: 01/02: Esse amps=475 Eyes, please? She's 500 at +9

O.K., she's up at 500. She seems fine, no excessive thirt, peeing, or anything like that. I didn't get a new ketone check this afternoon, because I didn't catch her in the box.

I just don't understand what's going on.

I have some Humulin N, if anyone thinks that I might need it to break the high...not terribly comfortable with that, but am less comfortable with her staying at these highs...

Thoughts, ideas, advice, opinions, et cetera...

Best-
Michele
 
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=926
Just to be clear ... read the above post. :smile:

Now, in my opinion.... if this were my kitty and he was this BG, I might shoot a little early which is like increasing the dose a bit. Or add a drop or two to the dose.
But you know your kitty the best on how she reacts to this insulin. What are you thinking?

We can talk about this together. Ok? Sometimes bouncing your own ideas off someone can help you clarify what you want to do.
It's like when you say something out loud - it either will sound better when you hear it... or ... not so much. Ha, ha, I do that myself sometimes.
 
That's just it, CD, I don't know. I just don't know. She responds to N well, but it also sends her low (but that was when I was using it alone...). Lantus just doesn't seem to be keeping her low now, but has sent her down into green all by itself.

So both of these insulins have the ability to lower her sugars, but lantus is not working right now; or her liver is in overdrive, and that 115 wasn't as low as she got, and it got very scared...and dumped a whole lot of sugars into her system. And any time it goes even a bit "low", her liver overreacts and says "humph. Not again..." and puts sugar back in...

I don't know if bringing her sugars lower will stop that cycle...it's almost as if she needs to learn how to do this on her own. Then again, DKA is scary and rotten and can kill, so I don't want to go there, either.

Like I said, CD, I just don't know...

Best-
Michele
 
Michele and Esse said:
That's just it, CD, I don't know. I just don't know. She responds to N well, but it also sends her low (but that was when I was using it alone...). Lantus just doesn't seem to be keeping her low now, but has sent her down into green all by itself.

So both of these insulins have the ability to lower her sugars, but lantus is not working right now; or her liver is in overdrive, and that 115 wasn't as low as she got, and it got very scared...and dumped a whole lot of sugars into her system. And any time it goes even a bit "low", her liver overreacts and says "humph. Not again..." and puts sugar back in...

I don't know if bringing her sugars lower will stop that cycle...it's almost as if she needs to learn how to do this on her own. Then again, DKA is scary and rotten and can kill, so I don't want to go there, either.
Click to expand...
You got that right... her liver does need to learn. For many kitties it is a long process while others seem to learn quickly not to panic. You can only try your best to bring Esse's BGs down and try not to be too upset when a blue number causes a rebound due to the panicked liver. Maybe Esse did get lower than the 115 and then you are seeing the liver response, and this all makes sense. It's not pretty, but it does make sense. Often this rebound will clear in a few cycles. Are you going to shoot a little early maybe? Or add a drop or two to your dose, fatten it? Didn't you mention that she is now getting a topical steroid for her ears? And your vet said it may affect her BG's for a little while?

I know nothing about N so cannot comment on that. I haven't heard of people using it with Lantus, not that I'm knowledgeable on the subject, I personally have never heard it used w/Lantus.

"DKA IS scary, rotten and can kill." Are you able to check for ketones? Gosh I wish I could help more. My heart goes out to you and Esse. Keep updating, I want to know what you decided to do.
 
CD, thanks so much for your opinions...

Want to know what's totally weird? At PMPS, she's 445. So, I fed some Trader Joe's tuna, and shot a 2.5+2 drops at 7 my time. I am either going to go to bed very early so I can get up at 3 am, and just test those last 4 hours, or stay up really late...or both. Probably both.

And yes, she's on dexamethasone sp, topically for her ear infection. And yes, the vet said it might screw up her numbers. But well into the 500's? I haven't seen her that high in a very long time, and it's saddening.

I am so totally confused. I'm tempted to find a kitty treadmill, and get her onto it and burning the sugars...but of course that doesn't exist. Throwing the kitten at her doesn't count - she's much bigger than he, and just holds her paw on his head while he tries to attack. So no real effort expended there. (I do not actually throw the kitten, lest you all think otherwise...he does, however, launch himself, often and quite well..).

I get so frustrated...I feel like I'm doing something wrong, and feel like I should be able to manage her better. Intellectually, I know differently, but still, there's that feeling of "man, what am I doing wrong!?!"

I will get a +1, +2, and at least a +3...maybe more, depending on how late I can stay awake. And I'll get up early, and check in the morning, too...

Good grief.

Best-
Michele
 
Well, good that she's down a little bit. Every time you see a 5 as the first digit in the BG number it has to be heart stopping... So that 445 looked much better.
Ha, ha, I get what you mean about the kitty treadmill. I used to try to BigMac to run up and down the stairs and chase the laser pointer to work off some of the high BG numbers. Eventually he wizened up and would wait at the bottom of the stairs for the dot of light to come to him. Then I'd try to chase him myself, but that wasn't much fun either. I found that throwing a catnip ball would get him exercising a little, but just for a short time.

Gosh we must sound silly, but we would do most anything to help our furry friends.
Speaking of exercise for cats, have you seen THIS kitty treadmill? I laugh every time. I hope it cheers you up too.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Obs9KfHxOak
 
Hey Michele,
I just wanted to let you know I am thinking of Esse and hoping those numbers come down a bit, every little bit will help, and I know how it feels to see those high numbers.
 
Thank you, Gayle...it's upsetting to say the least. Bless her heart, I know she's trying to get it right...but 531 is scary.

CD, that was a great detour...I ended up watching a few more videos, and got a good laugh. Laughing does help... and no, the laser pointer no longer works for Esse...she's sprawled on the floor right now...snoozing away.

I will see where she is in 26 minutes...

Best-
Michele
 
I feel for you Michelle...and I hope Esse comes down some. Yes, those super high numbers always disturb me too...will do almost anything to improve them.
 
She's at 456 at +1...not a huge hike...

Yes, Brenda, those numbers can be disturbing, and one starts grasping at anything which may bring them down. It's just frustrating that she's so high, and I don't really understand why. Hopefully, she will start to come down sometime soon...

Best-
Michele
 
There have been several beans who's kitties have had a BIG reaction to a topical steriod, so I'm not terribly surprised that Esse is having this kind of reaction. Given that your vet acknowledged that this was a possibility, did the vet suggest what to do with this kind of a spike? (Also, keep in mind that the difference between 475 and 500 is less than 10%. The numbers in the 400s just make us feel better.)

I don't know if N is typically used as a bolus insulin. That might be something to discuss with your vet.
 
Sienne and Gabby said:
There have been several beans who's kitties have had a BIG reaction to a topical steriod, so I'm not terribly surprised that Esse is having this kind of reaction. Given that your vet acknowledged that this was a possibility, did the vet suggest what to do with this kind of a spike? (Also, keep in mind that the difference between 475 and 500 is less than 10%. The numbers in the 400s just make us feel better.)

I don't know if N is typically used as a bolus insulin. That might be something to discuss with your vet.
Click to expand...
I know in humans N is bolused...but I don't know about cats. I'm holding off on that for now anyway.

I did ask my vet what she wanted me to do with higher than normal numbers, and she said "nothing." Asked again about a temporary dose increase, and she said "don't worry about it...let's see what happens." So of course Esse, in her most perfect timing, went 500+ after the vet had closed for the weekend. Sigh. And yes, the percentage difference is quite low...but that "5" is very scary...and yes, 400's make me feel better. 3's would be even better, 2's would be great...and much lower than that would scare me, too. LOL.

I will be getting a +2 in a few minutes...will update then.

Best-
Michele
 
+3=412. I'm going to get some sleep now, and get up at 4 am and test (that's her +9). Depending on what that number is, I'll either go back to bed, or stay up...I'm supposed to be at the barn most of the day tomorrow, so won't be home for testing for quite a few hours...but if she keeps this trends, we might see some pink tomorrow. At least, that's the hope...

Thanks, all, for staying with me tonight. I quite appreciate it.

Best-
Michele
 
I hope you can get some good rest and that Esse floats down gently for some nicer numbers tomorrow.
Hang in there you are doing fine.
Night, night!
 
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