? 04-21 Panzer possible UTI/ beat Spook up last night/PMPS 135/89@+4/81@+5/87@+6

Chrispooky12

Chrispooky12

Very Active Member
https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/04-11-my-non-diabetic-had-blood-in-his-poop.276341/

Hello all, I'm pretty sure Panzer has a UTI although the signs are few & far between they are there. He's been doing the pain meow & going back & forth between litter boxes for a week now.

Although I've been working alot getting 4 new houses & doing deep cleans on them & about to quote some offices that one of our new houses owns so I'm sure we will get them as well. I've been watching on camera off & on & have witnessed the pain meow litter box over camera view. Also after him beating Spook up last night I was watching quite a bit on camera today. They layed together on the tote sleeping & in the chair together sleeping. I feel like Spook knows he doesn't feel good & despite getting beat up, he is comforting Panzer!

The fight was absolutely horrible. I was sitting in the cat room reading through threads on here & they started playing with each other right outside the doorway & Panzer took Spook down hard on the floor & was getting very rough with him. Spook took off running into the living room & Panzer went after him, he had him pinned down in between the chair & the end table & I had to pull Panzer off of Spook. They were both very upset. Spook hid under the end table so I pulled it out & scooped him up & took him in the bedroom with Panzer on my heals. I shut the door & put Spook on the bed & started checking him for bite marks, although Panzer only has his 2 top canine teeth they could certainly do damage. I didn't feel anything but Spook was breathing like he was having trouble swallowing. I tried calming him down eyes big with fear & I went out of the bedroom to check on Panzer he was waiting at the door wanting in. I shut the door with Spook in the bedroom still, & checked Panzer & calmed him down. This happened at +5.5 PMPS 30mins before the +6 bedtime feed last night. I checked on Spook again & he was still big scared eyes but he was breathing normally, I left him in the bedroom until +6 bedtime feeding & let Spook out of the room. They ate together & were fine with each other.

I had a talk with both of them & although some people would think I'm crazy except for all of you, but I believe they understand anything I say to them. How well they listen & stop the fighting & love each other remains to be seen! No fighting today other than playing with each other before meals as they always do today/ tonight has been calm. (knock on wood)

I called the vet about 2hrs before closing & talked with the receptionist about what happened & Panzer's litter box behavior & that I think he has a UTI. I asked her to get pricing for a cystocentesis & a culture of the urine to send to the lab so we could see what the bacteria is & get the proper antibiotics. She never called back & they are closed until Monday!

Panzer's numbers have ranged from high to mid blues & even into the greens 50s some cycles. I know when an infection is present his numbers will rise, not sure if that's the reason for the higher blues or if he's bouncing?

I would like to try the Thunder ease plug in diffuser, just not sure on being able to keep up on it as it needs replaced every 30days. I'm struggling with my utilities still on disconnect with the gas company & have to pay before May 2nd to avoid being disconnected. I will be making more money once we get more houses/offices but right now I'm just trying to survive. I paid the minimum on the electric to keep it from being disconnected & will do the same with the gas. Also I'm now going to be out even more money to pay for the vet...ugh

I'm also down to 60mls of insulin in the last pen, which my DCIN person put in a request for insulin & test strips when we were at 160mls & it was approved but I'm waiting for them to ship it now.

Any & all input will be much appreciated @Suzanne & Darcy @Bandit's Mom @Bron and Sheba (GA) @tiffmaxee @Larry and Kitties @Ale & Bobo & Minnie (GA) @Diane Tyler's Mom @carfurby (GA)
 
Hi Christina , I can't believe Panzer has another UTI ! Poor Panzer
I feel so bad for Spook :( Poor baby.
Good thing you were home to get Panzer off of Spook.
While you're at work do you seperate them in case Panzer goes after Spook and really hurts him?
 
Diane Tyler's Mom said:
Hi Christina , I can't believe Panzer has another UTI ! Poor Panzer
I feel so bad for Spook :( Poor baby.
Good thing you were home to get Panzer off of Spook.
While you're at work do you seperate them in case Panzer goes after Spook and really hurts him?
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I know darn UTIs poor boy! Yes my poor baby Spooka! No this is only the 2nd time he has beat him up. The first time being the day after plugging in the Feliway optima diffuser which several people have had trouble with the optima, chewy refunded me my money on it but I left it in until it was empty because all was good after that one beating Spook got. There's really no way to seperate them unless I put a litter box in the bathroom & they are not allowed in there because they jump up on my shelves that I have my towels & wash clothes on & get fur & sometimes litter on them. Also I think that would stress both of them out. They really do love each other & are always playing, bathing each other, & sleeping together. Panzer just goes crazy here lately, but I really believe it's because he's hurting & he's taking it out on Spook. I watched them probably to much while working today & everytime I looked they were laying together sleeping. I took a picture of them earlier, they bathed each other on my bed & went to sleep with there arms around each other. Spook is always a sweetheart but Panzer has always been the dominant one, he used to go after my daughter's boy when he still lived with me, he is from the same litter as Spook. I really don't know what to do:arghh:
 
I was just looking at my email & there was a message from our old vet saying Happy Birthday to Spook, I totally spaced that Spook turned 6yrs old yesterday 4-21. We will have to celebrate tomorrow/today after midnight here:cat:
 
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Chrispooky12 said:
I was just looking at my email & there was a message from our old vet saying Happy Birthday to Spook, I totally spaced that Spook turned 6yrs old yesterday 4-21. We will have to celebrate tomorrow/today after midnight here:cat:
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@Chrispooky12
Happy Birthday Spook :cat:
orange-ginger-tabby-cat-sitting-birthday-presents-light-blue-surface-purple-stripped-background-piles-party-hats-76709100.jpg
 
I'm sorry about the fight and that Panzer may have a UTI. Can you get some D-Mannose? You can buy it as powder or in capsules that you can open. You can mix 1/4 of a teaspoon in Panzer's food. It helped Furball when she had a UTI. You can find it at Walmart. Sending prayers. :bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug:
 
carfurby (GA) said:
I'm sorry about the fight and that Panzer may have a UTI. Can you get some D-Mannose? You can buy it as powder or in capsules that you can open. You can mix 1/4 of a teaspoon in Panzer's food. It helped Furball when she had a UTI. You can find it at Walmart. Sending prayers. :bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug:
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I've been giving him D Mannose for quite some time, I think I started him on it the same time that I started him on cosequin. I wish I could figure out why he keeps getting them. He has FLUTD I wish they had a special medication that's just for UTIs :bighug::bighug::bighug:
 
That attack sounds terrible. I’m glad you were at home. I do think if it happens again you will need to separate them because it sounds like Spook could really have been hurt and also their relationship could be damaged if it had gone further than it did since you were there to break it up. Those canine teeth can puncture. And I have had cats in my house who have had punctures to their eyes from an aggressive cat — it’s not something you want to have happen (poor kitty and expensive vet bill.)
 
And you may want to try the Thunder Ease diffuser because it uses a different pheromone that the mother cat produces when she's nursing her kittens and it is supposed to promote bonding between the litter mates -- so it's worth a try to help with good feelings between the two cats. I do think that the attack probably occurred because Panzer is not feeling well now. I can't believe he has another UTI (it sure sounds like the way he behaves when he is getting one anyway.)
 
Suzanne & Darcy said:
That attack sounds terrible. I’m glad you were at home. I do think if it happens again you will need to separate them because it sounds like Spook could really have been hurt and also their relationship could be damaged if it had gone further than it did since you were there to break it up. Those canine teeth can puncture. And I have had cats in my house who have had punctures to their eyes from an aggressive cat — it’s not something you want to have happen (poor kitty and expensive vet bill.)
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I'm glad to I couldn't believe it was happening again! I know they truly love each other even if there not true brothers & I want them to continue to but I agree Spook will have to go in the bathroom if it happens again. I'd feel like I'm punishing him but I don't want him to get hurt or worse. Putting Panzer in the bathroom would not work, I believe he would not only get into everything but probably scratch the door up & possibly pull the blind down if I were to put him in there.
 
Suzanne & Darcy said:
And you may want to try the Thunder Ease diffuser because it uses a different pheromone that the mother cat produces when she's nursing her kittens and it is supposed to promote bonding between the litter mates -- so it's worth a try to help with good feelings between the two cats. I do think that the attack probably occurred because Panzer is not feeling well now. I can't believe he has another UTI (it sure sounds like the way he behaves when he is getting one anyway.)
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Yes that is the one that I am going to try. I believe Panzer was the last kitten in his litter so he may have had a huge attachment to his mom, when we bought him another couple bought his mom! Yes I agree 100% that he probably attacked him because he wasn't feeling well & I know another UTI :arghh: most likely. I'm going to push to get him in on Mon because I know UTIs are painful & I don't think they have in house to do a culture & the sooner we find out what kind of bacteria the sooner he can start on the right antibiotic. I hate that he has to be on an antibiotic again but it is what it is. Hopefully the Thunder ease will help & I can continue buying it if it does.
 
I talked to the vets office today & the reason they didn't call back is because my vet is not comfortable doing a cystocentesis on Panzer. I mentioned that he had something about sedating him to do it & she said he's not comfortable sedating him to do it either. She said I could take him to any other vet & have it done, I said no I will just bring a clean catch in. Can a clean catch be sent off to the lab? I know Panzer is a terror at the vet, but why wouldn't he be comfortable doing a cystocentesis if he's sedated? Is it because he's 11 & diabetic? Is there a risk of sedating him at his age? @Suzanne & Darcy @tiffmaxee @ anyone?
 
tiffmaxee said:
It can be sent but not as accurate as as a sterile cysto. Any bacteria might be not from the urine.
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Okay good to know, I don't understand why they won't even sedate him to do a cystocentesis. Maybe because I told them I wasn't comfortable with him being sedated months ago when they suggested it. Do you think it's dangerous to have him sedated?
 
I don’t like sedation if at all possible. If he gives them a hard time you might need it because if tge heeded misses it’s very dangerous.
 
tiffmaxee said:
I don’t like sedation if at all possible. If he gives them a hard time you might need it because if tge heeded misses it’s very dangerous.
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I don't like it either. He's only been sedated once & I saw him like that & don't want to ever again, he also acted very weird for several hours after it. Months ago they were willing to sedate him & do a cystocentesis but I said I wasn't comfortable with it, now there saying they aren't comfortable with it. He is a totally different cat at the vet, he wants to attack everyone! They call him the terror...ugh I guess I will just have to get a clean catch.
 
Hi Christina. I guess if you have no alternative then you can do a clean catch. They don’t like to send them in to the lab because there’s the possibility of contamination, but again, you may not have a choice. Have you tried Gabapentin?
 
Suzanne & Darcy said:
Hi Christina. I guess if you have no alternative then you can do a clean catch. They don’t like to send them in to the lab because there’s the possibility of contamination, but again, you may not have a choice. Have you tried Gabapentin?
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Hi Suzanne, he has had liquid gabepentin from one of the vets I fired. I had to give it to him the night before & the morning of any appointment that he had with them. I will talk with the vet about possibly getting some for him but they are so old school that they probably don't have it at the office.

Yeah right now that seems to be the only alternative is a clean catch. I will try to get some urine in the container that it's going to the vet in, then maybe it will have a better chance of not becoming contaminated. He knows I'm trying to get some pee from him though so he's being a turd!:rolleyes: I'm wondering now if he even has a UTI he's been acting somewhat normal. I did let the litter get low so I could dump the litter out completely & clean the boxes up with my floor cleaner. I bought the wrong kind of litter (same brand but one has purple on it & the one I use has the red on it) to refill with so I was trying to let it get low again but stopped. I think he likes to have more than enough litter. He burys everything in the box that's already been buried, he even paws at the wall like he's burying it:smuggrin:

Do you think it's unsafe for him to be sedated? How do you go about it with your kitty's?
 
Well I’ve never had to have a cat sedated for a cysto but if that particular vet says they’re not comfortable with it then I would not do it. There are certain drugs that I would not want to see used on him. So it really depends on what they are talking about when they say “sedation.” Some sedation is safer than others. I would just take in the sample and see what they say. Maybe he was just having a little inflammation and he feels better now.
 
Good cycle so far today. Nice!
Back to the sedation thing, I really just think that for a cystocentesis, Gabapentin is about the only thing I would consider. A lot of times when the vets are doing thoracocentesis (drawing fluid off from around their lungs with a needle) they will use low dose Butorphanol injection for sedation (a synthetic morphine-like drug,) but I can't see doing something like that just to get urine -- whereas Gabapentin is really considered to be a safe drug for cats, and the amount cats can take varies from cat to cat dependign on how stressed they get at the vet (and it sound like Panzer is really a wild cat at the vet.) It sound like this vet isn't happy about seeing Panzer anyway. Did you manage to get a sample from him yet?
 
Suzanne & Darcy said:
Good cycle so far today. Nice!
Back to the sedation thing, I really just think that for a cystocentesis, Gabapentin is about the only thing I would consider. A lot of times when the vets are doing thoracocentesis (drawing fluid off from around their lungs with a needle) they will use low dose Butorphanol injection for sedation (a synthetic morphine-like drug,) but I can't see doing something like that just to get urine -- whereas Gabapentin is really considered to be a safe drug for cats, and the amount cats can take varies from cat to cat dependign on how stressed they get at the vet (and it sound like Panzer is really a wild cat at the vet.) It sound like this vet isn't happy about seeing Panzer anyway. Did you manage to get a sample from him yet?
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I tried just a little bit ago to get a sample & got cat litter in it so I'm going to try again later. Unfortunately this is the only vet that agrees with me on that Panzer & Spook don't need a rabies vaccine, or any vaccine for that matter, so I'm kinda stuck with him.
 
Well I got a sample but my house that I was scheduled to clean on Monday May first rescheduled to the following Monday, I needed that to pay my rent. So what I guess I'm going to have to do for now is just have them check the urine & get an antibiotic if he has one :banghead: doxycycline I'm assuming?
 
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