07/25 Juggie AMPS 364 +5 241 PMPS 356 +4 308

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Hi guys Juggie had some real low numbers yesterday, lowest for us anyway.
@Bandit's Mom just did Juggies BG at +6 and it’s up to 158. For his AM shot you said to only do .75 right? I also have to add that when I do BG the only way he will allow it is to give him a churu tube but from what I can tell they are low carb treat

chewy says it contains 1.8% carbohydrates but it also says in a dry matter basis it has maximum 3.3% phosphorus
Maximum 4.44% sodium
Minimum 77.78% protein
Minimum 5.56% carbohydrates

am I wrong thinking this is an ok bribe? So far it’s all he will eat to allow me to BG

 

Yes, okay to go to bed and take the dose down to 0.75U tomorrow morning.

?
If it says 1.8% carbs on dry matter basis, it's okay to give.

 

they are tubes cat treat, like tiki cat stix or catit creamy stix

chewy said carbs was 1.8% but also said based on dry matter basis it was minimum 5.56% so I’m not sure of the difference between the two numbers

 

5.5% on a dry matter basis is also low carb. carbs 1.8% would be on what is known as "as fed basis" - that is including the moisture content. the carb% on a dry matter basis is the actual carb% (with the moisture not considered).

 

Took AMPS and got 364. only gave .75unit as suggested and will try for some afternoon BG’s

 

He is bouncing from the lows seen last night. Might stay in higher numbers all day.

 

Congrats n the reduction. Is testing getting any easier?

 

We just did a successful +5 and he was at 241. I read a post here about bouncing and why it happens so I understand now why his numbers may be wonky.

 

Thank you. it Was a stressful time in our house lol. We seem to have a system now that works (knock on wood) where my daughter holds him in her lap and feeds him a churu tube and he loves them so much (kitty crack for sure) that he pays no attention to his paw. I even did a successful one on my own when his numbers were low by having him lie down and squishing tube into a bowl. Downside is he eats it way too fast that way so there was struggle at the end but good to know if I’m alone and need to get numbers that it’s possible. I have tried cooked chicken too but any treat in a bowl he just devours way too fast then fights me about his paw. The tube works because he has to be patient and work to get it out

 

FWIW, I have no clue the carb % on the treats but neither the As Fed nor Dry Matter (DMB) nor the Guaranteed Analysis (GA) values tell us the % of total calories that are carbohydrates. The values you read on the side of the package are the Guaranteed Analysis values and aren't very meaningful as they are simply telling you the minimum or maximum (i.e. the actual value could be higher than the minimum or lower than the max).

Calories come from three places: Protein, Fat, and Carbs. Thee only nutritional analysis that answers the question of % of total calories that are carbohydrates is the Metabolized Energy (ME) values - most companies do not publish this data though some do (Weruva is one that does). Often, one can request the ME values by contacting the company and if the company won't supply them, then request the As Fed or the DMB values and then use this post -Calculating % Calories from Carbohydrates. This post also has a link further detailing why GA values aren't super awesome.

In summary, it's annoying hard to figure out the % of calories that are carbs for cat food and treats; it takes some digging Looking at ingredients is good too - when I look up the churu treats, they all seem to have tapioca (i.e. carbs) - but we don't know how much of the total calories the carbs make up. At the end of the day, if they help you in testing your cat, awesome. You just may want to see if you can convince juggie that freeze dried treats are delicious too (my Jax loved freeze dried chicken and I have heard shrimp is popular too)

 

We have tried other treats and he totally loves them but anything he eats from a bowl he just goes crazy and eats way too fast and then is no longer distracted and fights me. I’m not super fast and often getting a big enough blood drop takes time

On the chewy website they state the following
The product contains 1.8% carbohydrates
It also says
Dry matter basis:
Maximum 3.33% phosphorus
Maximum 4.44% sodium
Minimum 77.78% protein
Minimum 5.56% carbohydrates

so I feel that’s a good low carb option and we usually do 1/2 tube per testing (unless blood is slow and it takes longer to get a good drop then he ends up eating a whole tube)

 

Oh I know you are trying What about a teaspoon of low carb wet food as his bribe rather than a treat (i.e. something we have more confidence in the carb values with)? I saw on the chewy site where they are listing those numbers but it's unclear how they are arriving at the 1.8% carb value since they aren't providing ME values and/or the DMB fat value. For DMB, the Protein + Fat + Ash + Fiber + Carbs should equal 100% but I don't see the company (or Chewy) supplying those values for us to then calculate the % of calories that are carbohydrates. When you have time, I'd read through that post that I linked about calculating carbohydrate % and there are examples there about how DMB values (and as fed) are not alone sufficient for the % of calories that are carbs. Of course you can also keep doing what you are doing - we all are just doing what we can

 

our biggest issue isn’t the treat we use per se it’s the method it’s delivered. Anything in a bowl he eats too fast and then isn’t distracted anymore and fights the testing but with tubes we control how fast he eats and often just give him the tube to chew at and work the treat out himself which keeps him totally busy so I can do the test. Any attempt at a bowl just gets devoured in seconds

 

Pmps was 356 (1/2 tube of churu treat) Gave him 1unit along with his can of fancy feast pate.

 

Hi Dena, his dose is now 0.75U. Doesn't matter how high he is at pre-shot. Please go back to 0.75U tomorrow morning.

 

Ok sorry that I didn’t understand that you meant more than the one time. Will hopefully be doing his +4 bg soon

 

His +4 was 308. I’m off to bed. Thanks for the help

 

He is still "bouncing" from yesterday's lows. Good night!

 

That’s what I figured from what you said earlier we seem to have a good routine going with bg so hopefully we can start getting some numbers and help poor Juggie get himself under control better. His legs are still bad, I know that until his glucose is under control his legs won’t get better but it’s so hard to see him so weak, rabbit footing when he walks and shaking when he stands too long.

 

Yes, I've been there. Bandit had hind leg neuropathy as well! She used to be so nimble before the diagnosis and then just didn't want to move because of the neuropathy. It broke our hearts to see her like that. She's back to her old self now and it's so great to see!

Are you giving Juggie methylcobalamin B12 for the neuropathy?

 

I can just imagine ❤️ I really want to see jug feeling better too. With him he was very overweight and then lost like 15 Lbs from the diabetes so he wasn’t super nimble before the neuropathy set in. He is still quite mobile and active, wants to go for walks outside and chases his brother around (all started again once he started insulin as before that he was a sad lump) but he definitely has troubles, especially on the linoleum and like I said, if he stands too long his front paws start to shake. We have started the methylb12, about 8 or so days now and surprisingly I did notice that he’s walking a little bit on his back toes again instead of completely flat foot so that is tiny progress. Thanks for sharing Bandits story, gives me hope