07/31 J.D. PMPS 520, +2 431 - Slippery Elm Bark question

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Dyana

Dyana

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Yesterday's Condo

Last Night:
HI PMPS (TOR)
465 +2.25
351 +6.25
425 +11

Another quick condo, but at least I have more than 2 seconds to type it all.

Last night J.D. got two 10ml syringes of MaxCal and then I blended up a can of Authority Kitten Chicken & Liver and before I syringed it to him, he licked at least one syringe full of it off the spoon. So, I guess I shouldn't have used that flavor as it may be one he likes. I have a big stack of cans of various brands and flavors that are not Fancy Feast. Normally (he used to) only like Fancy Feast and that was it, both my cats would only eat Fancy Feast. Anyway, maybe, I can get him to eat another brand with less phosphorus once he starts eating more on his own again.

J.D woke me up again at +6 just purring away. I gave him more treats and he purred louder. He then snuggled with me. and woke up a happy purring cat. Then all the meds and syringing began.

J.D. made two small (again less than an inch in width or length) pieces of poo that were of a good firmness. I just want to see more poo. :)
We have gone on two walks, so far, and I have syringed five 10ml of Authority. We have one more walk to go and another two 10ml syringes. So, I have to run.

I hope everyone has a good day. Sending vines to all who need them.
 
Re: 07/31 J.D. PMPS 520

These BGs are so frustrating. I left out a bunch of food for the day and it looked like very little was eaten, and I'm sure that Ginger ate it. I did come home to some poo, so that is a relief, for both me and I'm sure J.D.

I gave J.D. 1/4 Pepcid at PMPS, and he went to the food bowl where I put down fresh FF and he ate like two or three teeny tiny bites. I waited one half hour and gave him 1/2 Ondansetron. Ate +1, I fed him (via spoon) about 1/3 can of MC FF Medleys. I just want him to eat cat food out of a cat bowl.

I gave him some R tonight.

I have a three day weekend coming up, with a 8:30am blood draw for CBC and another stool sample being taken in (I better have one to take) for Occult Blood Fecal, and then a 12:00pm Acupuncture session on Saturday. On Monday, he has I think an 11:00am appointment with the IM vet at the ER clinic. I hope I like the guy, because he looks really young in his picture.

Off to take the kitties for the first walk of the evening.
 
Re: 07/31 J.D. PMPS 520

Thank you for visiting, you guys. I appreciate it.

:YMHUG:
 
`

Good luck w/ the fuds and the syringe feeding. I think we forget about that option too often when the kittehs won't eat. We started Tess on SEB and it has really helped her appy.
 
Re: 07/31 J.D. PMPS 520

We are experimenting with the slippery elm bark with Zener too and it seems to be helping his appy. I'm afraid that I overdosed him at first. Ann's recipe seems to work for Mr. Z. Many vines for J.D. Yay for a 3 day weekend! :-D
Liz
 
Anne, please tell me a little more about Slippery Elm Bark. I am all for getting this guys appetite up.

If he could be depended upon to eat during the day, then I could up his dose.

How do you work it into a tight schedule?

This is mine:
A little before AMPS: Give Pepcid
AMPS: syringe feed, and give Cerenia and Ondansetron and and herbal pill for hind quarter weakness and 1 Denamarin.
+0.5: syringe more food, and give probiotics and methyl B12 and Miralax
+1.0: syringe more food, and give buprenex.
+1.5: syringe food and go to work

PMPS: Give Pepcid as soon as possible
+0.5: syringe feed, and give Ondansetron and herbal pill
+1.0: syringe feed, and give Baytril and methyl B12 and Miralax.
+1.5: syringe feed, and give buprenex
+2.0: syringe feed, and go to bed (but I could stay up longer, if needed).

I am all for trying things to strengthen his appetite. I wonder if I should re-start cyproheptadine one of these days.

This weekend, he can get buprenex every 8 hours, instead of every 12 hours, as I will be home for 3 days. Hopefully, that will help.


I just gave him his 0.05ml of buprenex, and this time, I saw it all go squirting out the side and some of it landed on my hand, so he got another dose of 0.05ml.
 
Re: 07/31 J.D. PMPS 520, +2 431

Sending appy and more poo vines your way. Yeah for a three day weekend.

Good luck with the vet visits this weekend. A young IM vetty might be up on the latest research.
 
Re: 07/31 J.D. PMPS 520, +2 431

Dyana, Marje knows more about it than I do, we've only been giving it to Tess for about 2 weeks and haven't needed cypro in that time. SEB is supposed to coat the stomach to reduce acid irritation and nausea. It is fiber so good for diarrhea and constipation too. I made the syrup from Tanya's site using the microwave method:
Microwave Method
For the non-cooks among us, one of my support group members came up with this method.

Take a glass container which holds two cups. Put one cup of water in the cup. Add 1 to 1.5 tsp of slippery elm bark powder.

Heat in the microwave on high for about 1.5 minutes. Remove from the microwave and stir, then put it back in for about another 30 seconds. Keep an eye on it because you do not want it to boil over. Remove from the microwave and stir again.

Allow to cool and give ¼ - ½ (0.25 to 0.5) teaspoon up to 4 times a day. This will keep at room temperature for a day or in the fridge for up to five days.
Click to expand...

I just did a half batch and filled several 12cc feeding syringes. I put one in the fridge and the others in the freezer for later use. About an hour before Tess's preshot meals (the coating action can inhibit the absorption of meds and supplements) I give Tess about 2cc (that's about a half tsp.), so twice a day. I couldn't find the loose powder until I checked the bulk herbs at the health food store, much cheaper than the capsules and there are no additives so the syrup works really well. The quarter pound that I got is going to last a long time at 1/2 tsp every 2 weeks. I like doing it in the microwave too, really quick and no mess.
 
We just got back from our second walk, and J.D. went poo !!!

A normal amount of poo. Yay!

Umm, on the Slippery Elm Bark question, doesn't it have to be given so many hours before and so many hours after food and other meds? I am usually up at 5:00am (+11), so I could give it then. And at night, I could give him his insulin when I get home at PMPS I could give the SEB then and wait an hour to feed and give meds, I guess.

What are the rules for Slippery Elm Bark?
 
Re: 07/31 J.D. PMPS 520, +2 431

Ann & Tess said:
About an hour before Tess's preshot meals (the coating action can inhibit the absorption of meds and supplements).
Click to expand...
So, do you think if I give it to him at +11 in the morning and then don't feed or give any meds until AMPS
and if I give it to him at PMPS and then don't give him any food or meds until +1, that that would work?
 
Our vet is younger too and when I mentioned SEB she was enthusiastic. Said it did wonders for some cats. I don't know on your schedule, but it shouldn't effect the bupe too much since that is absorbed through the membranes inside the lip. For inappetence/nausea I would think before feeding would help more than after.

I've been syringing Tess's other supplements too, about an hour after her meal. That she doesn't deal w/ as well, it's all the yucky stuff she didn't like in her fuds plus pumpkin! cat(2)_steam
 
Sorry, we keep cross posting. Well, Tanya's says an hour or two , so I just went w/ an hour before as it's easiest to work in. It seems like your idea should work.
 
I get home at PMPS or sometimes later, so I just can not not feed him for two hours after his shot. I don't think that would be smart.

I would like to try it. I hope this whipper snapper vet is good, and not like the last IM doctor we went to who lectured me about diabetes for an hour and said I should stop insulin. It was so hard to get a work in edgewise with that lady :-x and I was only there to talk about blood pressure.

If I give Slippery Elm Bark, does that mean, I can stop the Pepcid which I think J.D. only needs because a couple of times lately he threw up bile or tried to, because his tummy was empty, and ondansetron? and Cerenia?

It's dark, and time for bed.

Oh, I hope this works.
 
Our vet said to definitely stick with the insulin, budesonide and Cerenia. We have stopped the gabapentin (as of today) and are going to try easing off the ondansetron next, starting in a couple of days.
Liz
 
We dose cypro as needed. Would love to stop it altogether if possible, depends on his appy. We are wondering whether all of the meds are affecting Zener's mobility so we are trying to cut back or stop what we can.
Liz
 
Dyana

The recipe I've always used for SEB syrup is:
Into a small saucepan place 1/2 cup cold water and 1 teaspoon powdered slippery elm bark. Whip with a fork. Bring to simmer over low flame, stirring constantly. Simmer 1 or 2 minutes or until slightly thickened. Cool and refrigerate. Keeps 7 or 8 days. Give a teaspoon of syrup (5 cc) for an average-size cat (again, about 10 pounds) 5 minutes before a meal.
Click to expand...

But the microwave one is easier and faster and works just as well for the kitties.

I'm going to have to look at his schedule and see when you can give the SEB. You can give SEB and pepcid, you just have to be sure they are given really far apart. I gave them both to Gus. I need to grab some dinner and then I'll study his schedule and see what I can figure out, ok? :-D
 
Thanks for your patience.

SEB syrup coats the digestive system and so, for some CKD cats, it helps prevent acid. I was able to use it for Gus in lieu of Pepcid for a very long time but eventually switched to Pepcid because Gus was starting to have some acid tummy and he was getting a little weary of the SEB. I don't know if you want to take a chance in stopping the Pepcid and using the SEB for a while to see if it helps.

SEB should be separated from all meds by 1-2 hours. It's best to give it on an empty tummy but you don't have to. He should still see benefits. I never worried if Gus had an empty tummy...I just tried to work it around his meds.

I really liked giving SEB last thing at night because it costs the tummy and helps with the acid buildup that can occur overnight when they aren't eating. So if you could try and give it right before you go to bed but at least an hour or so after his baytril, methyl B12, and Miralax.

If you don't want to give it that late, your idea of giving it as soon as you get up and then waiting at least an hour to give other meds and food and then giving it as soon as you get home at from work and waiting an hour before the food/meds, could work.
 
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