08/09 Milo AMPS 220, +2 .25 131, +5 68, +5.5 76, +6 126, +7 178

Milo started today AMPS @ 220 then dropped to 131 @ +2.25 and now +5 @ 68. I haven't really been able to figure out his nadir but he can go up or down by +6. I have given HC food and he ate about 1 tbsp. Test again in 15 mins? I have honey, if it is needed. He's never been this low so it's concerning but he's still quite alert. What else to do?

 

I'm way too new to help...but I can tag some people for you:
@Panic
@Briere Fur Mom
@Chris & China (GA)
@Sienne and Gabby (GA)

 

Getting a test at 15 minutes after feeding sounds like a good plan. Definitely don't wait longer since no one is here to help you at the moment.

 

Not many ppl online right now...you can always feed him more if you get too worried. You're going to be fine. 68 is a good number. Just don't want him to go much lower, especially not without help.

 

Will do. Thanks. I'll post right away. Hopefully he goes up.

 

Regarding the HC food, remember the carbs are in the gravy, not the meat. So if you really need to get him up, you squeeze the gravy and give him that. 1 TBSP is a lot, so I think you'll be good.

I'll stay with you until someone else comes. You should also make it more clear in your subject line, like "MILO DROPPING PLEASE HELP", or something like that. Good that you have the "?"

 

Hi there. 68 isn't a terrible #. Lemme look at your SS real quick to try and figure out nadir time for Milo. In the mean time you can give him a snack. Depending on how carb sensitive he is determines if you use LC or MC

 

Thank you so much for coming, Briere Fur Mom. I hope it was okay to tag you. Sam and Milo are new to this so just wanted an experienced set of eyes for them.

 

It looks like Milo is a mid cycle nadir kinda kitty. After giving the HC get a test in 30 mins but, I suspect he will begin to climb in #s on his own shortly.

 

I’m really new at this, too, but Milo’s trends and numbers sound just like Norbert’s. He was just at 49 about 30 minutes ago. I gave him a couple tablespoons of Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers and tested again after 20 minutes. He came up to 76. I’d just test Milo again in about 20 minutes and make sure he’s coming up. I tried the honey on the first night that he dropped and that REALLY did the trick- I made him bounce big time. Keep us posted!

 

No worries. that's what we're here for
Anything I can do and try to support/help. Thanks for keeping your eyes peeled for peeps that need a lil help. Great way to support the community

 

When you get a # in the 40s please post for help unless you feel confident enough to handle the situation. Looks like the board is slow now and I'm the only one on....so I can try to help you both.

 

ETA on Milo's test?

 

Up to 76 now. phew. Try again in a half hour? or an hour?

 

Don't feed and get another test in 30 mins

 

test again in 30 minutes and if still OK then, test one more time an hour later.

We don't usually recommend feeding HC food until they drop below 50 on a human meter but we totally understand why you did! It's so scary the first few times you see your cat in those lower numbers!

The first time China dropped below 50 I knew I was supposed to give her HC food or Karo/honey/syrup but I wasn't clear on how much. I was so scared that I dumped about a cup full of syrup into a bowl (and I was shocked that she actually liked it!). Needless to say, her numbers went up....and up.....and up!!

I found out later that I was only supposed to use a few drops of syrup, not half the bottle!...LOL

 

Good catch by the way!! Any time that +2 is lower than the Pre-Shot, that's your "early warning" that kitty might drop a lot more as the cycle continues so it's important to get more tests in.

Next time if you see a drop at +2, try giving a teaspoon or two of regular low carb food which can sometimes help to slow down how fast they're dropping.

 

Back up to 126. What should I do about his evening dose considering what has happened? Or do we have to wait and see what happens in the next 6 hours?
That's good to know about the food. I'd better write that one down. What is considered LC, MC, HC in terms of carbohydrate %? I have a FF that's only 4%, another that is 14% and w/d that's 24% (left over from the vet when he recommended this for Milo)

 

@Briere Fur Mom just responded to my post and wrote what was considered MC amd HC food. Which I really didn’t know!

 

@Chris & China (GA) is there a sticky that defines LC, MC and HC percentages?

 

under 10% = LC
11-15% = MC
16+% = HC

 

I have read this hypo toolkit post, which states higher carb food is 18% carbs or more. Your 14% would be your MC, your 24% would be your HC.

Could you update your thread subject line with your updated numbers, and you can remove the "getting worried" part.

Following TR, as of right now you would still be giving the normal evening dose. Reductions are earned for a drop below 50. Of course wait and see what happens in the next six hours, but it seems like Milo is going up. I know that seeing that 68 was scary, but it is a good, normal number. Looking at your spreadsheet, Milo is most likely going to bounce up from going lower than he is used to. Do your testing and see where Milo is at for the rest of this cycle. This is what I would do.

 

Again, I'm new, I'm only trying to help based on what others have taught me because it is so slow here right now. So definitely go with what @Chris & China (GA) et al have to say.

 

No, it's not in any of the sticky's that I can remember

 

Since you're doing TR, he hasn't earned a reduction so you'd give the same dose as long as he's over 150.

If under 150 (which I seriously doubt will happen), then stall, don't feed and post for help. Test again in 20-30 minutes to see if the number goes up without the influence of food.

 

I should've shut up a loooong time ago. Sorry about that. Sam, good luck. You'll do great. Lots of experienced people to help you. Cheers!

 

You have all been so supportive and helpful. I really appreciate your hanging out with us for the afternoon and making sure Milo is safe!
He's +7@ 178 so I'm sure he'll be over the 150 by his evening shot. Everything got shuffled to later tonight because of the stalled dose yesterday so I'll only get a +2 before bed. I can set an alarm to check on him if we think that's necessary. I guess I'll wait and see.
Thanks for the help with the carbs; I haven't seen it laid out in a sticky like that so it helps. I need to do some re-reading tonight though.
I tried to upload some pics this morning (before all this excitement!) but it just shows this and no picture: Any ideas? And what does GA stand for?
Thank you again to all of you for your help!

 

GA is guardian angel, cats that have crossed the bridge and no longer with us.

 

Why?? You've been doing great!!

 

Thank you so much for saying that. It is tricky navigating what to do to help someone when I am new myself. I am extra sensitive to not wanting to be perceived as someone who steps on any toes or come across as some newbie who thinks she has it all figured out! Tricky to navigate. My heart is in the right place, though.

I also didn't realize you and Briere were still responding to Sam at the time when I was pointing him to the carb count I had seen in the hypo toolbox link.

Sam...sorry for the hijack!

 

The board needs people who are willing to step in and help with whatever advice they are comfortable giving. A lot of us lost our sugarcats years ago, but we're still here to share the knowledge that was passed down to us with a new group of people.

There are hundreds of cats here and only a handful of people who are comfortable giving dosing advice. Being willing to advise someone else on dose is a massive responsibility that not everyone is comfortable with (or don't have the experience with your type of insulin to reply). The last thing anybody wants to do is give advice that could possibly hurt or kill somebody else's cat.

But not all situations require dosing advice! And if you know the advice you're giving is in a sticky, it's great that you 1. read the sticky in the first place and 2. remembered what it said! (when it comes to carb counts, they're always an estimate anyway....1 can in the same case of food might be 15%, another might be 18% and another 13%....they're just not that uniform)

Without new blood, the message board wouldn't work as well as it does!

 

Sorry for being late to the party!

Two items...

There's a very helpful sticky on how to handle low numbers. It's titled,"Don't Panic or How to Handle Low Numbers." You might want to print it out.

One useful rule of thumb is that if you see a sizable drop at +2, it's very likely that it will be a busy cycle. Lantus onset, for most cats, is at +2 so your pre-shot number and your +2 number should be about the same. If it's considerabley lower, your kitty wants your attention or has a very early nadir. (If you look at Gabby's spreadsheet you'll see what an early nadir looks like.)

 

I tried to figure out how you got the broken image links, and I'm wondering if you are trying to insert pictures via the "image" icon along the top of the box where you type in a message? Have you tried inserting photos via the "Upload a File" button next to the "Post Reply" button:

Here are the instructions....try following the 2nd option, starting with "click the orange "Upload a File" button....(I will say, the button doesn't appear orange for me).

To add an image to your post, you have two options:

1. Insert from a URL. Click the image icon in the toolbar to insert an image directly from a the webpage URL.
2. Upload an image from your computer.

1. Click the orange “Upload a File” button below the post box. A window will pop up allowing you to navigate to the file on your computer.
2. Once you’ve selected the file, you will see it under the Attached Files section. You can then choose to insert it as either a thumbnail or a full-size image. (Note: If you see a blank image, you may need to refresh the page.)
3. Click either and the image should appear in your post (or BBcode for image insertion). If you already have an image code in mind, you can use the code to add it in.

Hopefully you haven't tried this yet and it helps you.

ETA: Instructions were taken from How-TO Use FDMB, the Basics

 

Understood! Thank you Chris! Everyone is so generous sharing their knowledge. I am soaking in everything I can and will continue to step in when I feel I can.

 

I'm a newbie, so please take this with a hugest possible pinch of salt. Just wanted to say that stripy AMPSs make me suspicious nowadays. Plus the fact that Milo had his first green at 3U. They say cats often go lower at night, and nadirs are not always in the middle of the cycle, and (especially while the kitty is new to diabetes) not always at the same time. And while clearing the bounce, after a flat cycle they can go lower in the following cycle.
He may be bouncing from the greens we do not know about.
So it would be nice to watch him closely, in order not to miss a reduction when it is needed and not to climb past the correct dose. Nothing's criminal, but with bounces it is sometimes possible to mistake a needed reduction for a needed increase. Maybe make some occasional tests when possible further in the PM cycles (on your way to the toilet or something. or to the fridge... what? don't tell me I'm alone in this ))). It may be informative if you happen to do it the night following a flat yellow (or blue) day cycle.
Anyway according to TR protocol when the cat is new to greens we hold the dose for at list 10 cycles (5 days) unless a reduction is needed before increasing again. In your case after 08/08 because of the token dose.
Hugs. And I'm a newbie, again, don't trust me )

 

Thanks. I have tried unsuccessfully both ways to upload a picture yesterday but I got it working today . It appears to be my lousy rural internet.