1/20 Shadoe amps 380

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So I am not at home and can't get to my ss to update. Whatever.
Yesterday's Recap:
254 - amps
416 - +11
392 - pmps
344 - +2
326 - +3 (I fell asleep shortly after!)
338 - +10.5
380 - amps today
337 - +1

Shadoe's kinda decided she has grown weary of all this kerfuffle, and she will let me know when it's OK to test or shoot or give any fluids. She is getting pushy lately.

Oh sure, she is just fine AFTER it all, but it's just getting to that AFTER time that's getting tricky.
Depending on Mz Shadoe's mood, I have to nonchalantly move around ever so slowly and close off all possible exits, then make a tiny bowl of something tasty to 'distract' her.

And you know what? She KNOWS what I doing! I can't believe how she must be watching me through closed eyelids and with her back to me. What's she got? Spidey senses? Ugh.

Whatever, we are on the way with this new dose, so hopefully in a few days we will see some action.
The fluids are kinda tricky; I have questions about how exactly to judge if you have given enough or too much because even with the lines, you don't actually know if you lean the bag against something or fix it so it's hanging free. She has decided that she does not like it to rush, so I just let it go till I am down a couple lines on the bag, or just a little less. I try to hold the needle facing straight ahead, but seriously, where is all this stuff going and what's holding it where it goes? And where is the best spot, if there is one, for the fluids 'bulge' to be? What if it's a bit off-center? Is that bad or what? Ugh.

She does seem to be happier after and appreciative of the fluids, so I guess she is getting something out of them. I'll take her in the 2weeks to re-test the fPLI again, but what exactly should we expect in the results? If above 5.4 is positive, then what's 13.7, other than really really positive? How bad is it, really?

Mz Shadoe pooh pooh'd the better foods this morn and went for the carb-1 SophCat Seafood dinner. You sure can't accuse her of having expensive taste, well other than the chicken breast cubes I make for her.

That's about it for the morning report. When I left for work, Shadoe was vegging out on her codeine TD in the ears and her insulin, belly full of food. Booboo was zipping all over the place like some whack job speed guzzling druggie. For just over 6lbs, she could likely leap over buildings; maybe she is part spider.
 
Hi Gayle
Big sigh and hugs for you and what you are doing for Shadoe.
Truly dedicated, mama bean.
I know the fluids are not fun. I used to be an expert on my Sasha (GA) but
it has been a while. When Max was first d/x I had to do fluids as well.
Thought it would come back to me but it was hard.
I hung the bag up, which made it hard to see how much was getting in while sitting on the floor
and kept a hand on the clip to ease the flow.

Hang in there.
Thinking of you,
 
Im so glad to hear shadoe is being feisty! That is a GOOD sign, ya know?!?! :mrgreen:

Gayle and Shadoe said:
And you know what? She KNOWS what I doing! I can't believe how she must be watching me through closed eyelids and with her back to me. What's she got? Spidey senses? Ugh.
Click to expand...
haha_smiley They ARE so smart! Latte has an internal clock and knows exactly when it is time for medicine...so I try to mix it up a bit, w/o being too late on any one or another. When I change the needle on the line, I have to be very careful and quiet - she knows the crinkly noise of the new needle getting opened. If she is sitting in the hall and I need to rinse or fill a syringe I have to sit on the toilet (like Im going), or pretend to get in the shower :lol: If I dont, she suddenly will decide exploring behind her throne is fun! She is really good about it all, but like I said - she has an internal clock and can disappear in a snap of a finger around that time.


Gayle and Shadoe said:
The fluids are kinda tricky; I have questions about how exactly to judge if you have given enough or too much because even with the lines, you don't actually know if you lean the bag against something or fix it so it's hanging free. She has decided that she does not like it to rush, so I just let it go till I am down a couple lines on the bag, or just a little less. I try to hold the needle facing straight ahead, but seriously, where is all this stuff going and what's holding it where it goes? And where is the best spot, if there is one, for the fluids 'bulge' to be? What if it's a bit off-center? Is that bad or what? Ugh.
Click to expand...

1. It may never be exact. Just like the insulin, try to be consistent. hang it one way and keep it like that every time. If you start giving less in the future, you can mark the bag with tape to designate where to stop. i used to use a marker, which some people say are bad because it could leak through. blah! I just eyeball it now (I give 50-75ml). Somedays she may get 40, some 60. You do the best you can do.

2. All this stuff is forming a pouch under the skin, hehehe..and slowly absorbing into her body! Imagine it being like a large insulin pouch/shed. The fluid bulge may end up in different spots, depending on where you poke and how much you give. I gave Latte extra the other day when vomiting and it went down to her leg, like the good ol' days! You should have seen her when we first started doing the 200ml and I didnt know to split it in half...imagine a 6lb kitty looking like a football player! :lol: Depending on how badly they need the fluids, the pouch could absorb very quickly, or slowly.

3. Before this happens and you freak out :mrgreen: ....You may get leakage at times, possibly blood! :o It's okay! Just wanted you to know. I remember freakin' out the first time!

Hope those answers help!
 
Carolyn,
thanks for all that info; it's very helpful and even more reassuring to me. I bet others new to fluids will find the info helpful too.

One more question on point 2 reply. If it absorbs quickly, the bulge goes down fairly soon and not just hides on some other area like an ankle - fast means more needed, and slow absorption means she's got less of a need?

I was told to give 100ml once a day; how will I recognize that I should decrease the amount? What if I have been giving her closer to 75ml, am I delaying her improvement? What harm does too much cause? You know how if a human drinks too much water they are messing up their electrolytes - that's what is in the back of my mind.

I don't know exactly what the fluids are doing with regard to her pancreatitis or if it's entirely not related.
Do I just keep using the bag till empty? Should I stop at some point and just hold onto some for later, or should I use it all up and then get another bag?

And I thought just the FD and insulin were complicated!
my hat's off to all of you guys who know all about all this stuff.
At least I feel like I am sucking all the stress she may be having, or I hope I am.
 
Gayle and Shadoe said:
Carolyn,
thanks for all that info; it's very helpful and even more reassuring to me. I bet others new to fluids will find the info helpful too.

One more question on point 2 reply. If it absorbs quickly, the bulge goes down fairly soon and not just hides on some other area like an ankle - fast means more needed, and slow absorption means she's got less of a need?
Faster absorption does not necessarily mean they need more. Slow, as in bulge is not gone by next administration typically means less. LOL, how is that for confusing! I say faster does not neccesarily mean they need more, because fluids are used to keep a cat hydrated. Once it is absorbed, it might be enough for them to maintain hydration through the day, along with the water they drink or get in their food. A small fluctuation in the amount of fluids you give (ie/80 vs 100, 110 vs 100, etc) is not as dire as giving an extra drop or two of insulin. Now, if you were giving a 100mls more, everyday for an extended time...THEN it could be an issue by putting strain on the heart. But really - what you are giving is VERY standard to start and 10 days is a good amount of time to then determine needs in the future.

I was told to give 100ml once a day; how will I recognize that I should decrease the amount? What if I have been giving her closer to 75ml, am I delaying her improvement? What harm does too much cause? You know how if a human drinks too much water they are messing up their electrolytes - that's what is in the back of my mind.
Again, any changes in the amount should be discussed with a vet first - unlike us rebels who change insulin amounts. I adjust amounts in very small increments depending on Latte's situation (vomiting, drinking too much/not enough, eating lots of kibble, low BG,etc) only because I have been doing it long enough to understand her needs, AND her vet has trusted/agreed with my decisions. The first year I was calling them every time I wanted to make a change. Im just pointing this out because you may read in my condo that I gave 75mls or 25mls instead of 50 on some days before checking with the vet. If you accidentally give 75 instead of 100, you can give the other 25 later in the day. You can add water to food, give chicken broth (w/no onions, etc). Or you can chalk it up as a learning experience and figure out ways to be more exact when measuring. Just do the best you can...which you obviously are. Do you know how to do the hydration tests by pulling the scruff and/or feeling gums? That is a very easy way to tell if Shadoe is maintaining hydration...test it at various times of the day. If you are giving too much, aside from seeing the pouch you would possibly hear labored breathing and see a runny nose.

I don't know exactly what the fluids are doing with regard to her pancreatitis or if it's entirely not related.
Do I just keep using the bag till empty? Should I stop at some point and just hold onto some for later, or should I use it all up and then get another bag?
Just keep telling yourself that fluids are for maintaining hydration. :mrgreen: Hydration is important for health of all organs! Shadoe was vomiting, right? That will dehydrate a cat quickly! Keep using the bag until the 10 days are up/bag is empty, as your vet instructed. Then revisit it with them. The other option is, if you feel shadoe no longer needs them...call the vet today and ask what they think. The fluids should not be open for too long. I think 2 weeks might be the recommended amount, but I cant remember. Might be 20 days? Since I only give 50-75ml, we often have ours open for over two weeks. You can always get more! And if you need more, you should order them online or try a local pharmacy since your vet is marking it up a great deal. My vet years ago charged $20 something a bag/line/needles. I can get a case at walmart for $22. If you order online, they will be just as cheap but shipping will cost as much as the case. Still cheaper than the vet, though. If you come to that crossroads, let me know and I will recommend some online suppliers.
Click to expand...

I hope this helps answer some questions. As always, dont hesitate to ask more. Have you looked at both the crf sites for further info on fluids?
 
Here are some links for you!

http://www.felinecrf.org/symptoms.htm#fluid_buildup
overhydration and symptoms

http://www.felinecrf.org/fluid_therapy.htm
Fluid Therapy/Tanyas Site
I particularly like the beginning -1. emergency phase, 2. replacement phase, 3. maintenance phase. You would likely be at the replacement phase from the vomiting and not eating well. Latte is in the maintenance phase, and has been for a very long time.

*Look at the section frequency of hydration - that might help explain things further.

http://www.felinecrf.com/managb.htm
Sometimes it helps me to read the same info from a different place....allows it to soak in better. And sometimes, there is just a little bit of different information.

There are tons of links on the above sites I posted, as well.
 
Alrighty, Shadoe is all full of fluids and had her insulin; she freaked and absolutely refused the codeine TD on the inside of the ears and since it's for pain, I let it go for tonite because she is not acting like she is in any pain at all.

I don't think she likes to get the fluids, but I am getting the feeling that she appreciates the results realized from the fluids. It's only been a few days so she has had to get used to them maybe.
Now, like the insulin, she knows she will feel better for having them.

She is no longer vomiting, and has not once vomited since coming home with all the drugs and fluids, but I will continue with the fluids to the end of the bag.

Right now, she is all sound asleep, in my chair. I was sitting and typing this update, she comes up and starts yelling at me; by now, I know that she wants her chair back.
By now, I know that every chair in the place is her chair, and I am allowed to sit in them but only until she tells me to get out of it.
I am just grateful that she allows me to use most of the bed every nite.

I tell you, Shadoe has certainly become a great deal more aggressive with this whole diabetes situation; what a bully she is becoming! Or maybe it's some sort of prima donna syndrome.
 
O Jeez,Gayle You are so funny!
I understand it's not fun to do all that but i do love to read your story/postings!
You are wonderful mama bean and Miss.Shadow better appreciate and let You use 1 chair in the house.
You have a good nite !
 
Gayle, you have such a great attitude. :mrgreen:

Sounds like you've got a good handle on things and that Shadoe is feeling better already.
 
nice +4 yellow tonite....I like to peek at ss's :mrgreen:
Little Miss Bossy Shadoe so demanding with her royal chair :lol:
bcatrun_gif
 
Ronnie & Luna said:
nice +4 yellow tonite....I like to peek at ss's :mrgreen:
Little Miss Bossy Shadoe so demanding with her royal chair :lol:
bcatrun_gif
Click to expand...

Ronnie likes to peek cuz she's got nothing to post, lol.!!!
Good going for Miss Shadoes and I'm glad she alows you the use of her charir(s).
Looking for a good day tomorrow!
 
Gayle and Shadoe said:
I don't know exactly what the fluids are doing with regard to her pancreatitis or if it's entirely not related.
Click to expand...

For pancreatitis, fluids are used to rehydrate (CP is very dehydrating, especially if there is vomiting or diarrhea), as well as to flush out the accumulating toxins from the CP. ECID with how long they need them depending on the severity of the flare itself. Since this is the first flare she has had, I would consult with your vet on how long to continue them.

I'll take her in the 2weeks to re-test the fPLI again, but what exactly should we expect in the results? If above 5.4 is positive, then what's 13.7, other than really really positive? How bad is it, really?
Click to expand...

There are a couple of schools of thought on this. One is that the higher the fPLI number then the worse the flare. The other is that no matter what the number is - positive is positive. There have been cats here with fPLI values in the 40's and higher. Are their flares worse than a kitty with a flare in the teens? No one really knows. One kitty here, Snoopy of Nikki and Snoopy, has had a positive fPLI value for months even though he is no longer symptomatic. So it is difficult to interpret.


Are you warming the fluids to room temp before giving them (I soaked in warm water until the bag temp went up)? Makes them much more tolerable to many kitties this way.
 
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