1/25 Shadoe amps 329 pmps 349 - thx jojo

[Blue]

Yesterday’s Condo

Yesterday Recap:
414 - amps
281 - +2
259 - +3
284 - +5
326 - +6
376 - +9
471 - pmps
412 - +3 (gave 100ml fluids)
310 - +5
308 - +11

Who knows what happened yesterday? What lousy numbers. Oh well.

Today, Booboo woke me to get her dry food uncovered; Shadoe could not be bothered.
She's like Oh is it that time again? I think she is getting as tired of all this as I am; I got attitude this morn and she did not even want to be tested. I had to show her food before I could get her amps, and I had to give her a liver pure snack treat to get her +11.

Overnite, she did dump lots of those fluids in the LB along with a nice healthy looking stool. She ate a fair decent amount of her food this morn, and is now doing her version of BTB.
We are going back to the auto feeder now since she seems to be pretty much back to normal with the eating; portions have been in the freezer for an hour so they will be thawed by the time the feeder swings them into view.

Tonite is the last of the fluids, so we should see how she reacts later in the week. I'll stop by the vets on the way home to see if we should continue with more fluids and also to set time to re-test her numbers for the pancreatitis. I am fine with what's been done so far, but we are all out of stuff so I don't know if it's been good enough; Shadoe's not talking.

QUESTION: Should we continue with fluids until we retest, or should this 1000ml bag have been good enough to bring down her number? She was at 13.7 and that's way above the0-3.5 range!

Scratches for all the kitties and calmness for all the beans today.

 

[Ronnie & Luna]

Re: 1/25 Shadoe +11 308 amps 329 pancreatitis question

Good morning!

Hey not bad from +5 to +11 overnite...guess it was the fluids? But good anyway.

Not sure about the fluid Q, hopefully someone with experience in that can offer suggestions.

Shadoe's not talking? lol! Isn't that like most kitties, they only talk when they want something and they want it now!

Hope u have a good day Gayle!

 

[Randi & Max (GA)]

Re: 1/25 Shadoe +11 308 amps 329 pancreatitis question

Good Moring Gayle
Well Shadoe is giving you a bit better numbers today and glad to
hear she was happy eating her food.
Can't help on he fluids but maybe we will get over this hump.
While you're out, tell her to give Max a call so they can coordinate their strategy.
Shadow is pink, Max is red.

Have a great day.

 

[carolynandlatte]

Re: 1/25 Shadoe +11 308 amps 329 pancreatitis question

QUESTION: Should we continue with fluids until we retest, or should this 1000ml bag have been good enough to bring down her number? She was at 13.7 and that's way above the0-3.5 range!

In more severe cases of kidney disease, fluids (usually IV) are used not only for hydration purposes, but to flush out toxins. Though Latte has pancreas issues, along with the kidneys I have never used fluids with the intention of flushing her out or trying to lower her numbers except when she was in the acute kidney failure. Its all been to help maintain hydration - due to vomiting and excessive urination. I was under the impression you were using the fluids for hydration (remember the replenishing phase?) due to a fair amount of vomiting/not eating for a few days.

Have you spoken with your vet about this?

 

[Greg and Carmelita (GA)]

Re: 1/25 Shadoe +11 308 amps 329 pancreatitis question

If you were giving the fluids for hydration only, check her gums and scruff to see how well hydrated she is. If it's tip-top and stays that way, I'd think you will be OK to hold off on fluids. If there was any sign of ketones (due to high BG and not eating) I would continue the fluids. Your vet might have a strong case for one or the other, might be worth a quick phone call.

 

[Blue]

Re: 1/25 Shadoe +11 308 amps 329 pancreatitis question

OK thanks Carolyn and Greg, I will stop at the vet's on the way home from work tonite to ask.

Yes, Shadoe had not been eating or drinking and the little that she attempted just came back up when we first went to the vets. She must have had an appetite as she would go to the food, but seldom try to eat I guess due to the nausea. Now, the combo of fluids, pain and anti nausea meds, have her back to her old self pretty much, and she is eating and drinking fairly well. I have seen her lick her nose a couple times like she was doing all the time when she was not eating or drinking. Maybe she is nauseous?

Her numbers are still high and I wanted to know if there was any connection between the pancreatitis and fluids. We were to go back to the vets after 2 weeks to see if she has resolved this pancreatitis issue, and no, never any ketones have been detected either at home or on any of the vet test results.

I am checking her gums for what, and pulling up the scruff I do all the time, but what indicated a problem with hydration? I don't know what to want to see.

QUESTION: How do you know if the pancreatitis issue is better or not? Do you need to have the test done again, and if yes, I would like to know so that I can TELL the vet I want the test done again, but how long does it take to get down from her 13.7 test result? I take that number to be really really bad because the high in the normal range is 3.5.

I can say what I am seeing but I just don't know if what I am seeing is good enough to say all back to normal, or if we are still having a problem.

UGH, I have to read more. What was this anyways? Is this going to be permanent, and what's a flare and would I even recognize it? confused_cat

 

[Greg and Carmelita (GA)]

Re: 1/25 Shadoe +11 308 amps 329 pancreatitis question

First take a DEEP breath, and exhale slowly!! This is one small episode in the life of your cat. It'll be OK.

I have seen her lick her nose a couple times like she was doing all the time when she was not eating or drinking. Maybe she is nauseous?

Yep, that is probably nausea. If she's eating, that's good, small meals will work better than big for this. Also, cat nip might help, if the meds aren't getting her 100% settled there.

Her numbers are still high and I wanted to know if there was any connection between the pancreatitis and fluids.

The pancreatitis causes pain (makes BG go up), and also dehydration (BG goes up), and the fluids address all those.

I am checking her gums for what, and pulling up the scruff I do all the time, but what indicated a problem with hydration? I don't know what to want to see.

The gums should be smooth/slick and moist/wet. If they are dry or sticky, or you press a little spot and it turns very pale but does not turn pink again immediately, that's dehydration.

QUESTION: How do you know if the pancreatitis issue is better or not? Do you need to have the test done again, and if yes, I would like to know so that I can TELL the vet I want the test done again, but how long does it take to get down from her 13.7 test result? I take that number to be really really bad because the high in the normal range is 3.5.

Although there are numbers associated with the test, pancreatitis generally seems to be something we determine symptomatically. Meaning, all the things that go her into the vet in the first place need to go away. If this something that's going to be chronic for her, you'll learn to spot it a ways off and head it off (pain meds, fluids).

I can say what I am seeing but I just don't know if what I am seeing is good enough to say all back to normal, or if we are still having a problem.

Although it's a *little* different, Carmelita has many flares of cystitis, and generally we have to give her pain meds and some extra fluids to make it go away. After 3 days, we try discontinuing the pain meds and see if her BG shoots back up. If it does not, we are in the clear. Point is, no one knows your cat better than you. Short of the blood test, you have to trust your sense of if she is feeling good or not. A lot of us keep notes about health related things in our SS, so we can see correlations between symptoms/onset and BGs, and also look for patterns.

UGH, I have to read more. What was this anyways? Is this going to be permanent, and what's a flare and would I even recognize it? confused_cat

Depends on your cat. Just a matter of wait and see. If it happens again, it is probably chronic. If it doesn't, then not. (Yeah, I know, that's frustrating.) Since it seems to be waning, I'm guessing this is more likely to be the chronic kind of thing, not the horrible/deadly acute pancreatitis. Chronic pancreatitis is pretty common in FD kitties, so if it is a recurring thing for Shadoe, you'll eventually learn to see the tiniest signs of a flare coming on.

Hang in there. It gets easier.

 

[jojo and bunny]

Re: 1/25 Shadoe +11 308 amps 329 pancreatitis question

first about the fluids. i disagree with the advice given, i would continue them. when you are giving them during a CP flare their function is not about dehydration, it is about flushing out the toxins that the misfiring pancreas is causing when those pancreatic digestive enzymes touch tissue/organs that they are not designed to be encountering. digestive enzymes are only suppose to be inside the g/i tract in certain amounts, the effect of them being released in wrong place is he basis of what p-titis is all about. that lip licking thing she is doing? that is nausea caused from the toxins that the SQ's will help flush out.



QUESTION: How do you know if the pancreatitis issue is better or not? Do you need to have the test done again, and if yes, I would like to know so that I can TELL the vet I want the test done again, but how long does it take to get down from her 13.7 test result? I take that number to be really really bad because the high in the normal range is 3.5.

most of us with CP cats do not have the fPLI test redone to tell us when a flare has passed, we go by symptoms. not that you can't get test redone (btw i've seen fPLI test results in 100's so don't worry, 13.5 is not that that bad). how long a flare lasts depends on the cat. flares can be in duration of a day to months. a CP cat can flare once every few weeks or once every few years. really cannot say. what you do is just keep a well stocked CP toolbox in house so you can jump on treatment the second you see symptoms and shorten the flare's course and keep cat eating and comfortable. blood work and symptoms can point to where the dig. enzymes are causing an issue (like liver is right close by to pancreas and that is a common place that they can effect) hence everyone can have slightly different tools in their CP toolbox depending on how their cat usually flares (again using liver as example, then you would add liver support supplements like denosyl or demarin, etc to your toolbox or if say the bowel is what is effected then shots of vit B help).
but basically a flare is over when there are zero symptoms and your cat is back to 100%, eating, playing, grooming, etc.

hth
~jojo


aside: this that was written to you i have to correct since can't leave medical misinformation in LL: "If they are dry or sticky, or you press a little spot and it turns very pale but does not turn pink again immediately, that's dehydration." CRT (capillary refill time, pressing on gums and measuring time it takes for gum to turn pink again) is not a measurement of dehydration. the 'scruff test' where you pull up on scruff and measure time it takes for it to return to original position is what is used in exam to measure % of dehydration (if you do not have access to CBC results).

 

[carolynandlatte]

Re: 1/25 Shadoe +11 308 amps 329 pancreatitis question

when you are giving them during a CP flare their function is not about dehydration, it is about flushing out the toxins that the misfiring pancreas is causing when those pancreatic digestive enzymes touch tissue/organs that they are not designed to be encountering. digestive enzymes are only suppose to be inside the g/i tract in certain amounts, the effect of them being released in wrong place is he basis of what p-titis is all about. that lip licking thing she is doing? that is nausea caused from the toxins that the SQ's will help flush out.

This is REALLY good information to know that its a similar concept as with the kidneys (if Im understanding correctly). Im about to head out the door to the vet, where Im thinking a good part of our conversation will be on Latte's pancreas. Im also suspecting he may want us to cut fluids back...

Thanks JoJo...and Thanks Gayle.

PS- I hope I never said anywhere to stop fluids or that they were not needed.

 

[Blue]

Re: 1/25 Shadoe +11 308 amps 329 - thx jojo

Carolyn,
I worried if I should get more fluids or stop them, if I was causing a problem to continue if Shadoe did not need it.
Man, I am worrying more about fluids than the insulin ohmygod_smile

Yes, I agree, very good info and I hope it's helpful to others; maybe not today, but certainly good to know if something occurs down the road.

Good luck at the vets.

 

[Greg and Carmelita (GA)]

I, too, have learned things.

Capillary refill time is not something I made up. It's mentioned in a fair amount of how-to literature about checking hydration. Maybe that literature is all wrong, I'm prepared to believe that. Unfortunately, my other sources of info don't have a Jojo of their own to put them right.

 

[Brenda and Morris]

Re: 1/25 Shadoe +11 308 amps 329 - thx jojo

Oh dear, while I was out of circulation tending to Morris it seems sweet Shadoe was also sick! I'm sorry! And so glad to hear she's on the mend. Just when you think you've got a handle on everything....feeding right, getting the tests, shooting the insulin....something new jumps up and slams you in the face. A constant learning process, and aren't we all lucky to have this board to help and support us! drinking11

 

[Blue]

Not too much to report for the pm; Shadoe is still hugging her pinks, but seems happy enough.

Shadoe is eating better, and ate every bit of food in all compartments of her auto feeder, so that's a good sign. I do worry if her appetite fades because it does not happen often and so is a sign of problems.

She still does not like getting her fluids but she definitely likes the after feelings. I picked up a fresh bag of fluids on the way home from work, so we are ready for tomorrow evenings fluids.

Tonite's shot was 6th cycle, I hope we can get some decent numbers, but I am not holding my breath.

 

[Randi & Max (GA)]

So Shadow was 349 at PMPS, Max was 351, PMPS.
Man are they in cohoots or what.
I am sending some good thoughts to Shadoe to start brinig it down. I will have Max
do the same too. I'll go have a chat with him. at +3 PMPS he is 248. Maybe no sleep for me.

Did you stop in at the vet today about how long you will be doing the fluids?