? 10/14 Lola PMPS 164 (AT2) Hold dose? +1 163; +2 227

Discussion in 'Feline Health - (Welcome & Main Forum)' started by Pookie, Oct 14, 2020.

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  1. Pookie

    Pookie Member

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    This is her lowest PM reading, and I'm thinking I should skip the evening dose. Her appetite is good and behavior playful.
     
  2. jt and trouble (GA)

    jt and trouble (GA) Well-Known Member

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    @Panic what do you think?
     
  3. jt and trouble (GA)

    jt and trouble (GA) Well-Known Member

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    I cant give dosing advice looking for a prozinc person brb

    Lets see if @JanetNJ is available. ;)
     
  4. Pookie

    Pookie Member

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    No worries. I'm comfortable not dosing.
     
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  5. jt and trouble (GA)

    jt and trouble (GA) Well-Known Member

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  6. Pookie

    Pookie Member

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    I have! I was reading it again just before I tested so I could be somewhat prepared for this eventuality. My question arose because I'm using the AT2 meter and the guidelines are based on the human meter. I've added 30 points to the protocol numbers to arrive at my best guess for AT2 thresholds.
     
  7. jt and trouble (GA)

    jt and trouble (GA) Well-Known Member

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    OH you DO need advice. Looks like everyone is busy at the moment. Good you you reading the stickies. I'm interested in what the advice would be.
     
  8. Pookie

    Pookie Member

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    I remembered reading a thread recommending that AT2 users add 25 pts to a 200 pt threshold since AT2 meters read higher. The threshold on the human meter for no-dosing is below 150. If I add 25 points to arrive at a no-dose threshold of 175, Lo is below that. Hence my comfort with holding the dose. (And Lola doesn't mind forgoing another needed stick - really!)

    High numbers are scary, but low numbers terrify me. I do not want to go there! I'm not worried that she'll go there tonight since I'm holding her insulin, but I've set up my ketone testing kit just in case. ("Honey, why is the soup ladle in the bathroom?")

    Thanks for holding my hand through this.
     
  9. jt and trouble (GA)

    jt and trouble (GA) Well-Known Member

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    I think you are doing the right thing. lol on the ladle :D

    I'm off to start dinner you and a relaxed evening! ;)
     
  10. Panic

    Panic Well-Known Member

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    No, any time you see someone trying to compare the two are being speculative, there IS no comparison. Human meters typically run lower, the higher the number the farer apart the numbers will compare, the lower the number the closer they will be.

    The Prozinc sticky only lists 150 as the no-shoot number because it applies to both Alphatrak and human meters. I asked about it once. :p

    You are fine skipping if you prefer, but you will have to get used to those low numbers eventually! Another option is given a token dose - only 10-25% of the regular dose, or feeding, waiting 2 hours, and then shooting based on that number if your schedule allows it and it is a shootable number.

    I think 1u seems to be a good dose so far. Keep getting some mid-cycles each day. A +2 for every cycle is hugely beneficial to knowing what the cycle will be like - a noticeable dip will tell you to keep an eye out and be watchful.

    Rough guide (doesn't have to be exact, just helpful reference):
    +2, +4, +6 one day
    +3, +5, +7 the next

    +2 and a "before bed" test every night

    These will fill in the gaps and help tell you when Lola is ready for an increase or decrease. :)
     
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  11. Pookie

    Pookie Member

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    Her +1 is 163, so a drop of 1pt. I really wish I hadn't skipped her mid-cycle reading today. I wonder what her nadir was? (This was the day I was going to get post PM shot readings to round out my spreadsheet.)
     
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  12. Pookie

    Pookie Member

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    Thanks for all of that information! If Lola is going to start hanging out on this end of the scale, I'm buying a human meter.

    Her +1 was a 1 point drop from PMPS, and that was after eating (but she's a grazer, not a scarfer, so she's not done eating for the night).

    If the protocol says 150, then I'm trusting it. I'll try to get as close to 1/10th of a unit as I can.
     
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  13. Pookie

    Pookie Member

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    And just that fast I changed my mind. I'm going to no-dose her tonight.
     
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  14. Panic

    Panic Well-Known Member

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    Here we go - this is under the SLGS protocol on the Prozinc sticky

    There is nothing wrong with skipping if pre-shots are lower than you're used to! Gotta do what you're comfortable with. :p
     
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  15. Pookie

    Pookie Member

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    How did I miss that? There's so much to learn! Thanks for the guidance.
     
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  16. Panic

    Panic Well-Known Member

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    Honestly I didn't know it was there until I went to check! :woot:
    You are very welcome!
     
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  17. jt and trouble (GA)

    jt and trouble (GA) Well-Known Member

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    I'm shutting down for the night Elizabeth thanks for all you do.:bighug::bighug::bighug:
     
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  18. Pookie

    Pookie Member

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    +2 is 227 so I'm off to draw a token dose of .25u. And then I'm signing off for the evening.

    THANK YOU ALL!
     
  19. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    I'm curious. Can you remember the reasoning behind this, Elizabeth. I ask because 150 on an Alphatrak is the upper bound of the normal reference range, so would be equivalent to a human meter reading of 120.


    Mogs
    .
     
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  20. Panic

    Panic Well-Known Member

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    I wondered the same, I don't think I got a reason (I think I asked Deb?), just that there is no pet meter number because it applies to both. @Marje and Gracie , could you enlighten us as to why the Prozinc sticky requires human meters and pet meters to use the same reference numbers, like for pre-shots?
     
  21. Marje and Gracie

    Marje and Gracie Senior Member Moderator

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    All of the methods of regulation used on this board were devised for use with human meters. There are no equivalent numbers between human and pet meters, so Mogs, (@Critter Mom) a 150 on an AT is not equivalent to a 120 on a human meter. This is a concept Jill had been trying to get across long before she passed.:)

    Even though the TR protocol for Lantus and Levemir has 50 on a human meter as the reduction point for a newly diagnosed cat and 68 on a pet meter for reduction, that does not mean 50=68. It means those are the lower thresholds for those meters that allowed for a safety margin for a newly diagnosed cat.

    If you look at the “Micro/AT” tab on Gracie’s SS, you’ll see I ran comparisons and a specific number on the human meter did not always, in fact rarely, result in the same numbers on the AT, using the same blood drop and, in some instances, not even close. In other words, a 38 on a human meter might be a 76 on a pet meter one time and 58 on the AT the next.

    While I did not record the BG comparisons on that tab that I took the last few days of Gracie’s life, I found several instances where the human meter was actually higher than the AT2; that was when Gracie was quite ill and had high BGs like she’d never had.

    It is a member’s decision on whether they want to use a pet or human meter but we don’t rewrite our methods to try and make something equivalent that has no equivalency. Therefore, they have to use the human numbers or buy a human meter ;):)

    Excellent question, Mogs and Elizabeth! Thanks for giving me the opportunity to explain so we get the right info on the board.
     
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